Eternal Security and free choice for the Christian?
- Thread starter Chester
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
1Ti 4:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
1Ti 4:3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
1Ti 4:4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
1Ti 4:5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.
These people departed from the faith,not departed from the Bible,but departed from the truth of it,to look at Jesus as a good spiritual teacher,and not as Lord and Savior,so although they still claim the Bible,they still deny Christ,His truth,and is the doctrines of devils,so it does not sound good.
Rom 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
Rom 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Rom 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
These people did not deny Jesus,they only would not allow the Spirit to lead them,so God said they would be cut off,which it is talking of people being saved,for God said for them to continue in His goodness,but they did not,which Jesus said if any person putting their hand to the plow,looks back,is not fit for the kingdom of God.
I know some people think we cannot fall away,but the Bible says otherwise.
Just allow the Spirit to lead you,and you are alright,and cannot fall away.
1Ti 4:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
1Ti 4:3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
1Ti 4:4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
1Ti 4:5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.
These people departed from the faith,not departed from the Bible,but departed from the truth of it,to look at Jesus as a good spiritual teacher,and not as Lord and Savior,so although they still claim the Bible,they still deny Christ,His truth,and is the doctrines of devils,so it does not sound good.
Rom 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
Rom 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Rom 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
These people did not deny Jesus,they only would not allow the Spirit to lead them,so God said they would be cut off,which it is talking of people being saved,for God said for them to continue in His goodness,but they did not,which Jesus said if any person putting their hand to the plow,looks back,is not fit for the kingdom of God.
I know some people think we cannot fall away,but the Bible says otherwise.
Just allow the Spirit to lead you,and you are alright,and cannot fall away.
Its so sad when people like Scriptureptz pick and chose what Scriptures they want to accept and what Scriptures they reject because it does not fit in their Theology!
You cannot pick and chose Scriptureptz!
ALL Scriptures are from God, even those Scriptures that say we are Predestined by God to accept Him as our Lord and Savior.
This is one of the problems in the Church today. Too many people like Scriptureptz do not want the Truth from God, all they want is to have it their way, not God's way.
This is why we have so many false religions, false churches, and false christians today.
You cannot pick and chose Scriptureptz!
ALL Scriptures are from God, even those Scriptures that say we are Predestined by God to accept Him as our Lord and Savior.
This is one of the problems in the Church today. Too many people like Scriptureptz do not want the Truth from God, all they want is to have it their way, not God's way.
This is why we have so many false religions, false churches, and false christians today.
Again! I'm hearing people teaching Salvation can be lost just by sinning.
We NEVER received Salvation by not sinning, therefore we cannot lose Salvation by sinning!
Read my last post. Today the Church is full of false christians seeking out ways to put us True Christians in bondage!
Listen to what the Holy Spirit says in all the Scriptures. We cannot pick and chose Scriptures like some people on this thread love to do!
We were Predestined by God to accept Jesus as our Lord and Savior. On our own we will never accept Jesus as our Lord and Savior. It was God who sought us out first! He came looking for us, we did not go looking for Him!
Romans 3:10-12
[SUP]0 [/SUP]As it is written:“There is none righteous, no, not one;
[SUP]11 [/SUP]There is none who understands;
There is none who seeks after God.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]They have all turned aside;
They have together become unprofitable;
There is none who does good, no, not one.”
If no one seeks after God then how does one receive Salvation? Its by God seeking after us that we receive Salvation!
We NEVER received Salvation by not sinning, therefore we cannot lose Salvation by sinning!
Read my last post. Today the Church is full of false christians seeking out ways to put us True Christians in bondage!
Listen to what the Holy Spirit says in all the Scriptures. We cannot pick and chose Scriptures like some people on this thread love to do!
We were Predestined by God to accept Jesus as our Lord and Savior. On our own we will never accept Jesus as our Lord and Savior. It was God who sought us out first! He came looking for us, we did not go looking for Him!
Romans 3:10-12
[SUP]0 [/SUP]As it is written:“There is none righteous, no, not one;
[SUP]11 [/SUP]There is none who understands;
There is none who seeks after God.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]They have all turned aside;
They have together become unprofitable;
There is none who does good, no, not one.”
If no one seeks after God then how does one receive Salvation? Its by God seeking after us that we receive Salvation!
B
I think it is a mix of these two but one is worded wrong
I believe that a Christian has free choice, but because of understanding God's love and goodness, the Christian will not choose to deny Christ
I don't believe in eternal security: a Christian has free will and is able (could) to reject Christ
I believe that a Christian has free choice, but because of tasting God's love and goodness, the Christian will not willingly choose to deny Christ
I believe that a Christian has free choice, but because of understanding God's love and goodness, the Christian will not choose to deny Christ
I don't believe in eternal security: a Christian has free will and is able (could) to reject Christ
I believe that a Christian has free choice, but because of tasting God's love and goodness, the Christian will not willingly choose to deny Christ
profound!
I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never go hungry, and whoever believes in me will never be thirsty.
I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Whoever eats this bread will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Whoever eats this bread will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
nom-nom-nom
*satisfaction*
amen, oh great well !!
but whoever drinks the water I give them will never thirst.
Indeed, the water I give them will become in them a spring of water welling up to eternal life.
thirst no more!Indeed, the water I give them will become in them a spring of water welling up to eternal life.
*out to lunch*
Certain people have not accepted a simple principle.
Until actions are actually taken, they are not real. If Abraham just agreed he would offer Issac, but was never shown to be doing it, where is the proof?
People say many things but do not follow them up with actions. Friends say they will stand by you, and then run when hard times come, and often the person you did not expect is the real friend.
Foreknowledge of the final results of walking and acting does not remove the need to walk and act.
So equally there is a vast difference between people saying to God, I believe in you, but do nothing, and say nothing.
We are defined by our actions not our aspirations. It is not earning salvation, it is actually walking in it.
Take a tight rope walker who claims they can walk across the rope, but never does. They may possess the skills, and motivation but they are no different from anyone else unless they actually do it.
Until actions are actually taken, they are not real. If Abraham just agreed he would offer Issac, but was never shown to be doing it, where is the proof?
People say many things but do not follow them up with actions. Friends say they will stand by you, and then run when hard times come, and often the person you did not expect is the real friend.
Foreknowledge of the final results of walking and acting does not remove the need to walk and act.
So equally there is a vast difference between people saying to God, I believe in you, but do nothing, and say nothing.
We are defined by our actions not our aspirations. It is not earning salvation, it is actually walking in it.
Take a tight rope walker who claims they can walk across the rope, but never does. They may possess the skills, and motivation but they are no different from anyone else unless they actually do it.
A
Freewill vs. God's Sovereignty. How can I a sinner with a corrupt nature choose what is good, noble and true. If the Bible tells me there is none good, no one seeks the good. What chance do I have? Do I have a free will. Well, for one thing, I have a will but it is not free. It is in bondage to sin. I speak as a man. If something is in bondage it is taken captive. Jesus has taken our will in bondage to sin and has declared us free. If we are justified by faith we are declared righteous. I can claim no credit to my account. Through God's sovereign decree He has chosen His elect. Not of our own doing but based solely on His good pleasure. Sola Scriptura, Sola Fidei, Sola Grati, Sola Christus. Come Lord Jesus.
Let me point out that we need to be careful about our reasoning.
You say, "We NEVER received Salvation by not sinning, therefore we cannot lose Salvation by sinning!"
The second part of the statement does not necessarily follow from the first. A simple preposterous example will illustrate:
"I never got my job by not swearing at my boss, therefore I cannot lose my job by swearing at my boss."
I am not here trying to argue the truth of the statement, but pointing out that the reasoning in the statement is faulty. If indeed "we cannot lose salvation by sinning" then it needs to be supported by Scriptural truth.
If your "boss" doesn't repent of his gifts or calling then it absolutely could be said that you didn't get hired because of not sinning and therefore you won't be fired for sinning.
But, if you try to make God into a man that has the same understanding and reactions that we do, then salvation is a very shaky thing indeed.
But, if you try to make God into a man that has the same understanding and reactions that we do, then salvation is a very shaky thing indeed.
It seems like we have free will.
But how can we know for sure?
Free will seems to be based on what we know and what we don't know in order to make our decisions. Wisdom and Knowledge and Revelation of Christ are a gift from God. So it definitely follows that our "free" will is at the very least limited. If it exists at all.
If you decide that you are going to follow Christ but you don't have Wisdom or Knowledge or Revelation of Christ given to you by God then your "free" will is not going to get you where you want to go. It may fool you into thinking you are going where you want to go. But you would be perishing for lack of knowledge.
If you have been given this Wisdom and Knowledge and Revelation of Christ then your will would be influenced by this gift of God. How much is it influenced? As much as God wants it to be... lol
But how can we know for sure?
Free will seems to be based on what we know and what we don't know in order to make our decisions. Wisdom and Knowledge and Revelation of Christ are a gift from God. So it definitely follows that our "free" will is at the very least limited. If it exists at all.
If you decide that you are going to follow Christ but you don't have Wisdom or Knowledge or Revelation of Christ given to you by God then your "free" will is not going to get you where you want to go. It may fool you into thinking you are going where you want to go. But you would be perishing for lack of knowledge.
If you have been given this Wisdom and Knowledge and Revelation of Christ then your will would be influenced by this gift of God. How much is it influenced? As much as God wants it to be... lol
