House of Cornelius and the law

[Ahwatukee]

we can't take an offering to a son of aaron. but we can go to Jerusalem.

BibleGuy said he wanted to seek maximal Torah-obedience. do you seek that also?

to me, that means keeping the parts of the law that we can.

the commandment is simple, Three times a year all of your males shall appear before the Lord your God in the place which he chooses.

Sadly, what BibleGuy is suggesting will have the opposite affect, keeping him from eternal life. For our salvation is obtained by trusting in the Lord who alone provided salvation by the shedding of His blood. Any time anyone brings in other requirements along side of what Christ already fully provided, it is equivalent to saying Christ's sacrifice was insufficient. Salvation is not a reward for our good works, but is a free gift. Unfortunately, we still see many people trying to earn it.

"God saved you by his grace when you believed. And you can’t take credit for this; it is a gift from God. Salvation is not a reward for the good things we have done, so none of us can boast about it.

 

[Grace777x70]

in my view, the topic is the relationship between the old covenant and the new.

yhwh is the name God uses in the old covenant, it's not there in the new.

Amen....well said.

Jesus is perfect theology:

Jesus is the exact representation of the Father. Jesus said no one knows my Father.

Jesus came to reveal the Father and His true nature to us as truth in the OT was progressive and in pictures and in shadows, but it ends with the revelation of Jesus Christ and what He has already done in His finished work.

So, whatever understanding of God we get from the Old Covenant that doesn't line up with Jesus' manifestation of the Father will be inaccurate.

Hebrews 1:1-3 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways
,
[SUP]2 [/SUP] in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world.

[SUP]3 [/SUP] And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,

 

[Dan_473]

several great ideas in your post. I'd like to start with these two

And, I also view your conception of "legalism" as unscriptural, because it carries the idea of "the letter rather than the spirit", which is (of course) not good.

'legalistic' wasn't my idea, I first heard it from lawkeeping christians who said they didn't want to be 'legalistic'.

Furthermore, we must ask: Was the "don't kindle a fire" command given because it would have been viewed as a significant form of work (from which we should be resting on Sabbath)?

If so, then effortless fire-kindling on Sabbath would be lawful.

this is true if we know the reason behind the commandment. do we know the reasons behind all the commandments? do we know the reason behind this commandment?



do you attempt to obey the letter of the law, or the spirit of the law?

 

[royalscot]

Yes everybody! Do not get caught up with this mess about actually Obeying the Father by keeping He's commandments and living righteous and holy lives. You see Jesus Christ have now given you a free license to sin so you can now use him as often as you like as an excuse to live your life in hypocrisy as much as you like after your own personal book of the law. Feel free to cherry pick what ever scripture you like and just keep on repeating Jesus takes my place, we don't have to obey that cursed law of bondage which forces you to live holy and righteous lives, I am not responsible for my actions! Jesus came to do away with all that and free me from having to keep the Fathers commandments. I am now free in the spirit to do what ever I like and there is no more evil law of bondage that can judge me any more when I keep on breaking it. I can finally live the life I have always wanted and I will do what ever I personally think is right at any moment because there are no longer any established righteous commandments. Its all about love now, you are free to love yourself as you see fit. On the day of judgment when all are to be judged I am gonna use Jesus as my excuse for living the way I want to and for all my sinful ways I never repented from but God is going to judge all the other people for their sins, BUT NOT ME because I get a free pass and am no longer responsible for my actions. Jesus takes my place for my sins and all the other sinners can go to hell! He kept the law so I don't have to! I deserve all this because I have mental assent that Jesus is going to take my place for my sinful life of transgression because I have mental assent belief that he will.

Warning: Sarcasm intended.

truth intended.
you have, no other choice to live the way you want. you have free will.


if you dont understand what saviour means.

saviour
ˈseɪvjə/
noun
[COLOR=#878787 !important][/COLOR]

• a person who saves someone or something from danger or difficulty.
  [COLOR=#878787 !important]"politicians of the era usually portray themselves as the nation's saviours"[/COLOR]
  [TABLE="class: vk_tbl vk_gy"]
  [TR]
  [TD="class: lr_dct_nyms_ttl"]synonyms:[/TD]
  [TD]rescuer, liberator, deliverer, emancipator; More
  
  
  
  
  [/TD]
  [/TR]
  [/TABLE]
  
  • (in Christianity) God or Jesus Christ as the redeemer of sin and saver of souls.
    [COLOR=#878787 !important]noun: Saviour; noun: Savior[/COLOR]
    [TABLE="class: vk_tbl vk_gy"]
    [TR]
    [TD="class: lr_dct_nyms_ttl"]synonyms:[/TD]
    [TD]Christ, Jesus, Jesus Christ, the Redeemer, the Messiah, Our Lord, the Lamb of God,the Son of God, the Son of Man, the Prince of Peace, the King of Kings, Emmanuel"in the centre of the mosaic, the Saviour is depicted, attended by two archangels"
    
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [/TABLE]
  
  
  

then you, will not understand why or what the saviour saved you from.

0 For the death he died he died to sin, once for all, but the life he lives he lives to God.Romans 6: Dead to Sin, Alive to God


Justified by Faith
15 We ourselves are Jews by birth and not Gentile sinners;16 yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.Galatians 2


your free from the yolk of law.

 

[BibleGuy]

Your objections and conclusions are based on your repeated use of Scriptures that don't say what you say they say or that are out of context.

You consistently attempt to apply Jesus' teaching of the Law to those under Law to New Covenant Believers who are dead to the Law. Then you twist the clear meaning of Rom. 7:1-6 into an interpretation about God being able to remarry Israel who He divorced. I'm well-versed in the teaching and have written an extensive refutation of that and other core teachings in the Law-keeping belief system. Those who are interested can go to the following page:

• Gateways into the Hebrew Roots Movement – An Examination of ‘Identity Crisis’ and Related Teachings of Jim Staley

Your teaching renders the Work of Christ and what it accomplished as nothing and is Torah-centric, not centered on Christ, which classifies what you teach as heresy.

I'm very pressed for time these past two days (one of our children is in treatment at St. Jude Children's Research Hospital and we're heading back for the week) - but I'll be back when I can - hopefully tomorrow evening.

It's a joy and a pleasure to defend the Gospel of Grace - the Work of Christ and all that it accomplished on our behalf and for the Kingdom \o/!

'Til we meet again ,
JGIG

Hello JGIG,

Thank you for returning....I was concerned you might not come back to carry forward our dialogue...but I'm glad to see you intend to return.

Take ALL the time you need to focus on your family...we can study and learn together when you have more time!

I’ll take note of your latest round of comments you've made here (post #157)…and look forward to hearing from you.

blessings...
BibleGuy

 

[simplifiedtruth]

truth intended.
you have, no other choice to live the way you want. you have free will.


if you dont understand what saviour means.

saviour
ˈseɪvjə/
noun
[COLOR=#878787 !important][/COLOR]

• a person who saves someone or something from danger or difficulty.
  [COLOR=#878787 !important]"politicians of the era usually portray themselves as the nation's saviours"[/COLOR]
  [TABLE="class: vk_tbl vk_gy"]
  [TR]
  [TD="class: lr_dct_nyms_ttl"]synonyms:[/TD]
  [TD]rescuer, liberator, deliverer, emancipator; More
  
  
  
  [/TD]
  [/TR]
  [/TABLE]
  
  • (in Christianity) God or Jesus Christ as the redeemer of sin and saver of souls.
    [COLOR=#878787 !important]noun: Saviour; noun: Savior[/COLOR]
    [TABLE="class: vk_tbl vk_gy"]
    [TR]
    [TD="class: lr_dct_nyms_ttl"]synonyms:[/TD]
    [TD]Christ, Jesus, Jesus Christ, the Redeemer, the Messiah, Our Lord, the Lamb of God,the Son of God, the Son of Man, the Prince of Peace, the King of Kings, Emmanuel"in the centre of the mosaic, the Saviour is depicted, attended by two archangels"
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [/TABLE]
  
  
  

then you, will not understand why or what the saviour saved you from.

0 For the death he died he died to sin, once for all, but the life he lives he lives to God.Romans 6: Dead to Sin, Alive to God


Justified by Faith
15 We ourselves are Jews by birth and not Gentile sinners;16 yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.Galatians 2


your free from the yolk of law.

Grace does not justify you to continue to live in willful transgression(Mat 7:21-23). Grace is the divine influence upon the heart which draws you back to the Father, which leads you to repentance of your sins(Rom 2:4), which is transgression of the law(1 John 3:4).

1 John 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. 4He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. 6He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

1 John 3:3 3And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.4Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. 5And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. 6Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. 7Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. 8He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 9Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 10In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

Now according to the verses above, are you walking as Jesus did (Jesus was obedient to the Father) ? Are you purifying yourself ? Has Jesus taken away the sins of your life (Transgression of the law) ? By breaking the law, are you Doing righteousness or unrighteousness ?

Matt 5:17-19, are you omitting the Fathers commandments and teaching others to do the same ?

These are serious questions you need to evaluate and look into what the text really say about it.

 

[simplifiedtruth]

do you believe my prayer is an abomination?

in your view, did Jesus make changes to the law?

I don't know you, but if you willfully live a life where you constantly turn away your ear from hearing the Fathers divine commandments then I believe yes, your prayers will become an abomination just as the scriptures say.

Jesus re-instituted the marriage covenant through himself taking the place of the high priest and serving in the heavenly tabernacle, therefore fulfilling the purpose of the law by being the just sacrifice for sins, which animals could never do.
This makes the need for animal sacrifice no longer necessary. In contrast, if you are a man you are not to obey the commandments pertaining to women and the Levites no longer need to obey the commands about animal sacrifice because a better and eternal sacrifice has been made. This does not mean the law is done away with, but certain instructions no longer pertain to the levities, but to Jesus Christ. There was a change made for Jesus which was from the tribe of Judah to be made high priest instead of one from the Levites. But before the Levites the priesthood of God was established through Melchizedek and the levites also yet to be born paid tithes to him through the loins of Abraham (Heb 7:9-10).

Now many people think there was faults in the first covenant with Israel, but the fault was with the people and not God.

Hebrews 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.8For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:9Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.10For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

 

[Dan_473]

I don't know you, but if you willfully live a life where you constantly turn away your ear from hearing the Fathers divine commandments then I believe yes, your prayers will become an abomination just as the scriptures say.

Jesus re-instituted the marriage covenant through himself taking the place of the high priest and serving in the heavenly tabernacle, therefore fulfilling the purpose of the law by being the just sacrifice for sins, which animals could never do.
This makes the need for animal sacrifice no longer necessary. In contrast, if you are a man you are not to obey the commandments pertaining to women and the Levites no longer need to obey the commands about animal sacrifice because a better and eternal sacrifice has been made. This does not mean the law is done away with, but certain instructions no longer pertain to the levities, but to Jesus Christ. There was a change made for Jesus which was from the tribe of Judah to be made high priest instead of one from the Levites. But before the Levites the priesthood of God was established through Melchizedek and the levites also yet to be born paid tithes to him through the loins of Abraham (Heb 7:9-10).

Now many people think there was faults in the first covenant with Israel, but the fault was with the people and not God.

Hebrews 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.8For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:9Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.10For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

I'm all for hearing the Fathers divine commandments, it's just a question of what they are for us today, since Jesus can make alterations. Do we agree on that?

Did Jesus do away with the commandment to travel to Jerusalem three times a year?

 

[Dan_473]

Or maybe a better way of saying it is How do we fulfill the commandment? Do we travel to Jerusalem three times a year, or is that law fulfilled just by being a Christian?

 

[simplifiedtruth]

I'm all for hearing the Fathers divine commandments, it's just a question of what they are for us today, since Jesus can make alterations. Do we agree on that?

Did Jesus do away with the commandment to travel to Jerusalem three times a year?

See my answer to the same question you asked in post 172.

We will keep the feast in Jerusalem when Jesus come. For now we celebrate them where we are as the Spirit of the Father is in He's children and we are physically He's temple and sanctuaries. The children of Israel did keep the feasts in the wilderness(Exo 5:1) and also during their time there.

 

[Dan_473]

See my answer to the same question you asked in post 172.

We will keep the feast in Jerusalem when Jesus come. For now we celebrate them where we are as the Spirit of the Father is in He's children and we are physically He's temple and sanctuaries. The children of Israel did keep the feasts in the wilderness(Exo 5:1) and also during their time there.

you are correct that a similar question was implied in post 164, which you responded to in 172.

but this question is a little bit different.

I'll try to rephrase

Is the travel requirement of the law fulfilled just by being a christian?

 

[RobbyEarl]

Each nation will come once a month and honor and pat tribute to The King Jesus Christ in Jerusalem. Each nation at their appointed month. The sacrifice of Lambs will continue as a memorial to self giving of Jesus Christ for our souls. It's in your bible.

 

[simplifiedtruth]

you are correct that a similar question was implied in post 164, which you responded to in 172.

but this question is a little bit different.

I'll try to rephrase

Is the travel requirement of the law fulfilled just by being a christian?

If you go back and read my post it then you can see it clearly is not done away with (if that is what you mean by fulfilled). (Zachariah 14:16 , Matt 5-17-19). There will be a new Jerusalem to go to when the Kingdom of Christ is established in Jerusalem. My other posts does already answer your question. There is nothing to go back to in Jerusalem at this time. We He's people are the living temples and walking sanctuaries of God and He's Spirit is living inside He's children. We celebrate/keep the feasts to the best of our abilities where we are until Jerusalem is again esablished.

 

[Dan_473]

Each nation will come once a month and honor and pat tribute to The King Jesus Christ in Jerusalem. Each nation at their appointed month. The sacrifice of Lambs will continue as a memorial to self giving of Jesus Christ for our souls. It's in your bible.

That sounds like it would be in the future

For now, do we need to be concerned with traveling?

 

[Dan_473]

If you go back and read my post it then you can see it clearly is not done away with (if that is what you mean by fulfilled). (Zachariah 14:16 , Matt 5-17-19). There will be a new Jerusalem to go to when the Kingdom of Christ is established in Jerusalem. My other posts does already answer your question. There is nothing to go back to in Jerusalem at this time. We He's people are the living temples and walking sanctuaries of God and He's Spirit is living inside He's children. We celebrate/keep the feasts to the best of our abilities where we are until Jerusalem is again esablished.

Ok, so every Christian, just by being a Christian, doesn't have to do the traveling part. Do we agree on this?

 

[RobbyEarl]

If you go back and read my post it then you can see it clearly is not done away with (if that is what you mean by fulfilled). (Zachariah 14:16 , Matt 5-17-19). There will be a new Jerusalem to go to when the Kingdom of Christ is established in Jerusalem. My other posts does already answer your question. There is nothing to go back to in Jerusalem at this time. We He's people are the living temples and walking sanctuaries of God and He's Spirit is living inside He's children. We celebrate/keep the feasts to the best of our abilities where we are until Jerusalem is again esablished.

In actuality to keep a feast is sinful, I know I know but think about what the feast were for, were they not about the Cross? so to keep such a feast makes the Cross of no effect and therefore sinful. But we serve a merciful God that is slow to anger and he sometimes overlooks our inefficiencies if we truly love Him.

 

[simplifiedtruth]

Ok, so every Christian, just by being a Christian, doesn't have to do the traveling part. Do we agree on this?

Yes. For the time being. When Christ comes again we will be keeping the feasts with him at Jerusalem again. (Zachariah 14:16)

 

[simplifiedtruth]

In actuality to keep a feast is sinful, I know I know but think about what the feast were for, were they not about the Cross? so to keep such a feast makes the Cross of no effect and therefore sinful. But we serve a merciful God that is slow to anger and he sometimes overlooks our inefficiencies if we truly love Him.

"In actuality to keep a feast is sinful"

"so to keep such a feast makes the Cross of no effect and therefore sinful"

You are entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts.

Your comment is a case of eisegesis where you inject your own opinion. The difference between eisegesis and exegesis:

The word eisegesis literally means “to lead into,” which means the interpreter injects his own ideas into the text, making it mean whatever he wants.

Eisegesis is a mishandling of the text and often leads to a misinterpretation. Exegesis is concerned with discovering the true meaning of the text, respecting its grammar, syntax, and setting. Eisegesis is concerned only with making a point, even at the expense of the meaning of words.

Read my post 172# what the bible says about keeping the feast.

 

[Dan_473]

Yes. For the time being. When Christ comes again we will be keeping the feasts with him at Jerusalem again. (Zachariah 14:16)

cool! so, sounds like because the nt talks about us being the temple, and that's kind of related to going to Jerusalem, so we know that we don't have to be concerned about the travel commandment for now.

what's your take on building a fire on the sabbath? someone talked earlier about how if it didn't involve any work, then it was ok, because that was the reason behind the commandment, to not do any work.

 

[simplifiedtruth]

cool! so, sounds like because the nt talks about us being the temple, and that's kind of related to going to Jerusalem, so we know that we don't have to be concerned about the travel commandment for now.

what's your take on building a fire on the sabbath? someone talked earlier about how if it didn't involve any work, then it was ok, because that was the reason behind the commandment, to not do any work.

Yes we are the temple and the church where God is now present. The temple in Jerusalem was completely destroyed! (Matt 24:2).

If you need to go out to prepare for a fire , say chopping wood, gathering sticks or kindle a fire from scratch then you are simply working on the sabbath and have broken the sabbath commandment and have not done your diligence of preparing for the sabbath on the preparation day (Numb 15:32 , Exodus 16:5). Obviously Israel always had lights, torches and fire burning for heat on the sabbath day. There were to be no fire for the work of baking and cooking food on the sabbath, but it was to be done on the 6th day and laid up for the 7th day. (Exodus 16:23). People need to use their brain and look into the text when it comes to this commandment. Some religious people are so blinded to themselves that they wont even flick a light-switch because of this commandment and that simply is not intelligent. The sabbath is made for man for a blessing to rest and thank God for He's creation and not the other way around (Mark 2:27).