Verse for "once saved always saved"?

[Chester]

Then Take Jesus at his word. As shown in John 6. Whoever believes in him will never die, Live forever, Has eternal life, etc etc. Also in John 3, Has eternal life, Not condemned.

Anti OSAS people do not have verses, they have contextual passages which are out of context which appear to support them, But do not..

I can take almost any verse of the bible and make a doctrine out of it, It will not make that doctrine a gospel truth.

Its intriguing to me how our words go right past each other: You say that "Whoever believes in him will never die, Live forever, has eternal life, etc." I say Amen! I agree completely! Not a problem with that statement. And I see that in John 6.

But I don't see anywhere that is says "the one who is not believing in him has eternal life". If I say to you - "Come to my house and I will take care of you forever" - most likely I don't mean that if you leave my house, I will still take care of you.

You can "interpret" John 6 to mean OSAS, but I haven't seen yet where the text clearly states that truth.

 

[Chester]

one?

John 6 had "Many" which showed it. John 3. Ephesians 1 has many.. How many do you want?

Ah, I don't have time to try to look at whole chapters right now ! . . . Just one verse that clearly states OSAS would be enough!

I know you have given me verses earlier on this post, and I think I have responded to a lot of them, and I guess I don't see OSAS in them and you do: that is OK with me! I am open to keeping on looking and struggling.

 

[miknik5]

Despite years of Bible study and talking to many people, I have not yet had anyone show me a verse that clearly says "once saved, always saved?" Is there such a verse in the Bible, or is the doctrine of eternal security a conclusion from study of Scriptural themes and principles?

I guess John 10:29?

 

[Chester]

Anti OSAS people do not have verses, they have contextual passages which are out of context which appear to support them, But do not..

I can take almost any verse of the bible and make a doctrine out of it, It will not make that doctrine a gospel truth.

Hmmmmm! That is quite an intriguing statement! Do you have a verse for that?

 

[Chester]

I guess John 10:29?

Discussed this earlier (I think on this thread) This is a wonderful truth that the sheep (which have been given to the Father) are secure: the Father is able to keep any from plucking them out of his hand. But who are the sheep? Are they those who are believing? Are they any who have believed at any point in time?

I would argue that the sheep are those "who are believing". But that is my interpretation. You can interpret it differently than I do and I am OK with that.

So I don't see this verse clearly showing OSAS, though it can be interpreted that way. Or am I missing something?

 

[miknik5]

Discussed this earlier (I think on this thread) This is a wonderful truth that the sheep (which have been given to the Father) are secure: the Father is able to keep any from plucking them out of his hand. But who are the sheep? Are they those who are believing? Are they any who have believed at any point in time?

I would argue that the sheep are those "who are believing". But that is my interpretation. You can interpret it differently than I do and I am OK with that.

So I don't see this verse clearly showing OSAS, though it can be interpreted that way. Or am I missing something?

I agree.
But it isn't our work to examine the conscience and faith of others, is it?
Isn't Romans 10 sufficient because if we confess with the heart, GOD sees and knows and isn't fooled by a false profession...

and isn't faith a gift from GOD as well?
Do men believe the GOSPEL by their own doings?
Isn't that why it is written, we do not preach with the wisdom of men, lest the CROSS be emptied of its power?
Isn't it ALL GOD'S WORK to open the eyes and ears of the heart to the TRUTH of HIS SON?

 

[miknik5]

Here's another one...
We are not of those who fall back unto condemnation but are of those who press on by their faith and hope in HIM...to the saving of our soul...

Because, really GOD has made it that those who HOPE in HIM are even receiving the goal of their faith...even their salvation.

 

[cjordan38]

Well to answer this question. No. When you are saved that doesnt mean your always saved. The Word says there will be a great falling away. So the answer is no there is no scripture that states that. And Salvation is given to all freely but if tou dont want it you wont have it.

 

[fredoheaven]

Well to answer this question. No. When you are saved that doesnt mean your always saved.

I am

Saved by Christ

Secured by the promises of God

and

Serving Christ

The question is "are you saved?"

God bless

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Its intriguing to me how our words go right past each other: You say that "Whoever believes in him will never die, Live forever, has eternal life, etc." I say Amen! I agree completely! Not a problem with that statement. And I see that in John 6.

But I don't see anywhere that is says "the one who is not believing in him has eternal life". If I say to you - "Come to my house and I will take care of you forever" - most likely I don't mean that if you leave my house, I will still take care of you.

You can "interpret" John 6 to mean OSAS, but I haven't seen yet where the text clearly states that truth.

This is confusing.

John 3: [SUP]18 [/SUP]“He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

No place in scripture does it say a person who rejects (does ot have faith) in Christ is saved.

So why would you use this to say John 6 does not teach osas, When the parts of John 6 are not talking about non believers. Yet John 6 does talk about them.

[SUP]64 [/SUP]But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who would betray Him.

God already knows who are non believers. Your not going to fool God into saying you believe, when in reality, you have no faith in him at all..

so saying non believers have eternal life is confusing, because no olace in scripture does it say they ever had it, It states clearly, They are condemned already (they have been in a state of condemnation)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Well to answer this question. No. When you are saved that doesnt mean your always saved. The Word says there will be a great falling away. So the answer is no there is no scripture that states that. And Salvation is given to all freely but if tou dont want it you wont have it.

already discussed..

The falling away was talking about groups of people. not induviduals.. It says in the last days, people will seek out people who tickle their fancy so to speak.. The mainstream, or believing church will have falling numbers in groves, not because people walk away, But because people decide to chose other churches instead.. (ie all these other religions)

 

[Chester]

I agree.
But it isn't our work to examine the conscience and faith of others, is it?
Isn't Romans 10 sufficient because if we confess with the heart, GOD sees and knows and isn't fooled by a false profession...

and isn't faith a gift from GOD as well?
Do men believe the GOSPEL by their own doings?
Isn't that why it is written, we do not preach with the wisdom of men, lest the CROSS be emptied of its power?
Isn't it ALL GOD'S WORK to open the eyes and ears of the heart to the TRUTH of HIS SON?

Ah! I think we are getting somewhere now; or at least I get what you are saying - I don' agree with everything, but the context of it makes sense!

You said first: "I agree" : I assume you meant that you agree that John 10:29 does not clearly, outrightly say "once saved always saved". But I assume your "I agree" means that you see my idea of the verse as "my interpretation". You don't agree with me about the interpretation of the verse; you would interpret it differently than I do. Am I right about what you meant by "I agree"?

The rest of what you wrote is all good stuff (now that doesn't mean I completely agree: I might say it differently or add to it! You really think I should get this OSAS thing, and you care about it deeply!! But it is clear that what you are saying is your interpretation of Scripture. (And when I say "your interpretation" that doesn't mean it is wrong!)

You wrote: "isn't it our work to examine the conscience and faith of others" - Yes, I agree - and I assume that is why you ask the questions you do in the rest of your post, because you care about the pure, true, gospel and the "truth of his Son".

I care about them as well! I would say things differently, though similarly to what you do, but I will not go into more details here. I have written enough on other posts.

 

[Chester]

Here's another one...
We are not of those who fall back unto condemnation but are of those who press on by their faith and hope in HIM...to the saving of our soul...

Because, really GOD has made it that those who HOPE in HIM are even receiving the goal of their faith...even their salvation.

Interesting verse again: The amazing thing is that this is a verse that an "anti OSAS" person could just as well have on their list.

How's that? Simple - There is one group who falls back to condemnation; but those who "press on' in faith and will receive final salvation.

You interpret it differently than that I assume! But the issue again is interpretation of the verse.

For either side to say blatantly that "the Bible says" my view is not going to help!

 

[Chester]

This is confusing.

John 3: [SUP]18 [/SUP]“He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

No place in scripture does it say a person who rejects (does ot have faith) in Christ is saved.

So why would you use this to say John 6 does not teach osas, When the parts of John 6 are not talking about non believers. Yet John 6 does talk about them.

[SUP]64 [/SUP]But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who would betray Him.

God already knows who are non believers. Your not going to fool God into saying you believe, when in reality, you have no faith in him at all..

so saying non believers have eternal life is confusing, because no olace in scripture does it say they ever had it, It states clearly, They are condemned already (they have been in a state of condemnation)

Interesting! Interesting!

You said "this is confusing" - Actually it is starting to make sense in where we differ.

You said, "No place in Scripture does is say a person who rejects (does not have faith) in Christ is saved"
I say "Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen!

Why do I say "Amen" to this? Because when I hear "once saved always saved" it means that once a person has become "born again" by grace through faith, he will automatically get to heaven (even if later he rejects God, quits having faith in God, and thus becomes an "unbeliever"). So I believe strongly that the person who rejects Christ (does not believe) is not saved. To me, OSAS clearly teaches otherwise.

For you? I think you would take strong issue with my statement above "even if later he rejects God, quits having faith in God, and thus becomes an unbeliever". You probably believe that once a person is a true believer that rejecting Christ is not even a remote possibility.

Am I analyzing this correctly? It doesn't resolve our differences, but maybe helps explain our misunderstanding each other?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Interesting! Interesting!

You said "this is confusing" - Actually it is starting to make sense in where we differ.

You said, "No place in Scripture does is say a person who rejects (does not have faith) in Christ is saved"
I say "Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen!

Why do I say "Amen" to this? Because when I hear "once saved always saved" it means that once a person has become "born again" by grace through faith, he will automatically get to heaven (even if later he rejects God, quits having faith in God, and thus becomes an "unbeliever"). So I believe strongly that the person who rejects Christ (does not believe) is not saved. To me, OSAS clearly teaches otherwise.

Ah, Here we go. You think a person who trusts God, Gets saved, And experiences the love of God will one day say it was all a fake experience, and God is not real.

To Me, that would never happen, You do not experience the love of th egod of the universe first hand, then all of a sudden say nope. I do not believe, i reject you.

Not to mention, the apostle John said in his epistle that one who does not believe in christ is an anti christ, And many of them were in the church, but departed, But he makes it clear, They were ever of us for if they were of usm they would have stayed,, But they left to prove they were never of us.

Those people were never saved my friend.. They did not lose salvation yu can not lose what you do not have.

For you? I think you would take strong issue with my statement above "even if later he rejects God, quits having faith in God, and thus becomes an unbeliever". You probably believe that once a person is a true believer that rejecting Christ is not even a remote possibility.

Am I analyzing this correctly? It doesn't resolve our differences, but maybe helps explain our misunderstanding each other?

You said a person can deny, stop believing in Christ.

This is what the apostle John says about that person.

[SUP]8 [/SUP]Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the[SUP][c][/SUP] Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour. [SUP]19 [/SUP]They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us. [SUP]20 [/SUP]But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you know all things.[SUP][d][/SUP] [SUP]21 [/SUP]I have not written to you because you do not know the truth, but because you know it, and that no lie is of the truth.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son. [SUP]23 [/SUP]Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also.

 

[Chester]

Ah, Here we go. You think a person who trusts God, Gets saved, And experiences the love of God will one day say it was all a fake experience, and God is not real.

To Me, that would never happen, You do not experience the love of th egod of the universe first hand, then all of a sudden say nope. I do not believe, i reject you.

Not to mention, the apostle John said in his epistle that one who does not believe in christ is an anti christ, And many of them were in the church, but departed, But he makes it clear, They were ever of us for if they were of usm they would have stayed,, But they left to prove they were never of us.

Those people were never saved my friend.. They did not lose salvation yu can not lose what you do not have.



You said a person can deny, stop believing in Christ.

This is what the apostle John says about that person.

[SUP]8 [/SUP]Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the[SUP][c][/SUP] Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour. [SUP]19 [/SUP]They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us. [SUP]20 [/SUP]But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you know all things.[SUP][d][/SUP] [SUP]21 [/SUP]I have not written to you because you do not know the truth, but because you know it, and that no lie is of the truth.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son. [SUP]23 [/SUP]Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also.

Only have time for a very quick response here: I think you got the difference between our views, but let me explain mine a little bit more: I don't think we are as far apart as we might think.

You said, "To me that would never happen, You do not experience the love of the god of the universe first hand, then all of a sudden say nope. I do not believe, I reject you."

Interesting thing is that if you change your word "never" to "hardly ever" or "how could it happen" that quote is something those around me have heard say many times! The difference is that you say it "can't" happen and I think it is very unlikely to happen because of the compelling power of the love of God.

You have Scriptures you use for your view and I could give Scriptures for mine: and that can be a worthwhile exchange, though I don't have time right now for that.

 

[miknik5]

Interesting verse again: The amazing thing is that this is a verse that an "anti OSAS" person could just as well have on their list.

How's that? Simple - There is one group who falls back to condemnation; but those who "press on' in faith and will receive final salvation.

You interpret it differently than that I assume! But the issue again is interpretation of the verse.

For either side to say blatantly that "the Bible says" my view is not going to help!

Are you of CHRIST'S BODY?
Do you know that you were baptized into CHRIST'S death and risen in HIM a NEW CREATION marked by the HOLY SPIRIT as belonging to GOD in CHRIST JESUS...a deposit guaranteeing an inheritance (in THE SON) which is being kept for us in HEAVEN which can not be destroyed?

And if so, are your words for baby believers whose conscience is weak, or for mature believers whose conscience does not betray them?

Who are your words for?
And who is saying these words?
GOD?

or you?

Who gets the last say in what belongs to HIM?

 

[miknik5]

Will you be overlooking the baby believers then and ensuring that none are made lame but that all will press on til we all reach maturity and the unity of FAITH?

Which is and will be directed in and on HIM and HIM alone...
That is the GOAL of our faith...and that is the FAITH which will prove genuine and will result in HIS PRAISE and GLORY alone...

This does not mean that grace is a license to sin...but OUR FATHER does rebuke and discipline HIS CHILDREN...for if HE didn't the alternative would be a seared conscience and the storing up of HIS WRATH to the day.

 

[Grandpa]

Ephesians 2:8 [SUP] [/SUP]For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Romans 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.


1. You are saved by God as His Gift.

2. God doesn't give that gift based on your performance. (see Eph 2:9)

3. God doesn't rescind that gift based on your performance.


Some things are permanent, whether you like them or not. I know that peoples will and pride will be against this concept. And maybe even their understanding.

Salvation isn't like receiving a bike on christmas. Salvation is like all the gifts of God. They are permanent. Like the colors of the rainbow. They don't change just because you want them to.


You can't walk away from God after being saved any more than you could walk away from your own blood type. It would be weird to even consider.

 

[Chester]

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Romans 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.


1. You are saved by God as His Gift.

2. God doesn't give that gift based on your performance. (see Eph 2:9)

3. God doesn't rescind that gift based on your performance.


Some things are permanent, whether you like them or not. I know that peoples will and pride will be against this concept. And maybe even their understanding.

Salvation isn't like receiving a bike on christmas. Salvation is like all the gifts of God. They are permanent. Like the colors of the rainbow. They don't change just because you want them to.


You can't walk away from God after being saved any more than you could walk away from your own blood type. It would be weird to even consider.

God wouldn't force people to keep their faith in him if they don't want to, would he? "It would be weird even to consider"