House of Cornelius and the law

[Chopper]

You are free to believe and do what ever you want. But your belief cannot be supported by the bible with sound doctrine.

This is something that can be said for 90% of what is claimed to be according to the Scriptures, because if one were to really search the Scriptures for themselves along with historical facts, they would not be using the references to Ba'al for the Name of the Father, or the title and/or short name for Gadreel (Satan) as the Father (God is short for Gadreel), nor would they be using a name for the Messiah that calls on the Greek mighty one, Zeus. Furthermore, your doctrines that the 10 Commandments and feats were "nailed to the cross" is a purely false doctrine as well, with the Scriptures clearly proving that both the 10 Commandments and Feasts were kept in the New Covenant by the disciples AFTER the ascension of the Messiah to the Father. How long must it take before you realize you cannot take everything at face value as spoken until you research it for yourself? If the blind lead the blind, with they not both fall into the ditch?

 

[royalscot]

for the record, if change is included in biblical terms, then why do you choose to follow, given you can t prove your stand. etc ie nimrod v never will you leave this planet. so opinion needs a leader from the dead. lol have fun all. xx

.42 And he commanded us to preach to the people and to testify that he is the one appointed by God to be judge of the living and the dead.43 To him all the prophets bear witness that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name."Acts 10:

i hope i never cut out anyone, i have being saying the same thing from day one. etc

 

[royalscot]

everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name."Acts 10: etc

when did repent for forgiveness come into the equation.
For God So Loved the World
16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.John 3


for all that think god never gave you a way out.

.17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.John 3

,26 for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith.Galatians 3: By Faith, or by Works of the Law? etc

 

[simplifiedtruth]

This is something that can be said for 90% of what is claimed to be according to the Scriptures, because if one were to really search the Scriptures for themselves along with historical facts, they would not be using the references to Ba'al for the Name of the Father, or the title and/or short name for Gadreel (Satan) as the Father (God is short for Gadreel), nor would they be using a name for the Messiah that calls on the Greek mighty one, Zeus. Furthermore, your doctrines that the 10 Commandments and feats were "nailed to the cross" is a purely false doctrine as well, with the Scriptures clearly proving that both the 10 Commandments and Feasts were kept in the New Covenant by the disciples AFTER the ascension of the Messiah to the Father. How long must it take before you realize you cannot take everything at face value as spoken until you research it for yourself? If the blind lead the blind, with they not both fall into the ditch?

I am not against keeping the commandments or teaching the "commandments and statutes were nailed to the cross", or teaching the law is done away with. In fact I believe in keeping all the law that applies to us, not just the 10 commandments. Go back and read my previous posts and you will see my position. I understand you have not read them yet. Take care, Peace.

 

[royalscot]

I am not against keeping the commandments or teaching the "commandments and statutes were nailed to the cross", or teaching the law is done away with. In fact I believe in keeping all the law that applies to us, not just the 10 commandments. Go back and read my previous posts and you will see my position. I understand you have not read them yet. Take care, Peace.

and any jewish person would agree with you.
Romans 8: Life in the Spirit
1 There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.2 For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death.Romans 8: Life in the Spirit

but the judge of the living and the dead, is wondering, without air how will you fly anything. etc

 

[simplifiedtruth]

and any jewish person would agree with you.
Romans 8: Life in the Spirit
1 There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.2 For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death.Romans 8: Life in the Spirit

but the judge of the living and the dead, is wondering, without air how will you fly anything. etc

I am not talking about how we receive Jesus Christ or how we are forgiven and justified. I am talking about being obedient to the Faith laid out for us to walk in. Jesus Christ commanded us to obey the Torah and teach others to do the same(Matt 5:17-19, Matt 19:16-17, Matt 23:2-3, Matt 28:20).

 

[simplifiedtruth]

This is post is not about how we receive Jesus Christ or how we are forgiven or justified, but about repentance and walking in newness of life being obedient to the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Paul taught all scripture is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction and for instruction in righteousness that the man of God may be perfect, and warned about those who are ever learning but are reprobate concerning the faith, and resist the truth:

2 Timothy 3:Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. 8Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith. 9But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as theirs also was.10But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience, 11Persecutions, afflictions, which came unto me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra; what persecutions I endured: but out of them all the Lord delivered me. 12Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.13But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.14But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; 15And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Paul believed in in all the law and in prophets:

Acts 24:13 Neither can they prove the things whereof they now accuse me.14But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers,believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

Paul kept the sabbath:

Acts 17:2 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,
Acts 18:4 And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks.

Paul kept the Feasts and commanded to do so:

Acts 20:6And we sailed away from Philippi after the days of unleavened bread, and came unto them to Troas in five days; where we abode seven days.

Acts 20:16 For Paul had determined to sail by Ephesus, because he would not spend the time in Asia: for he hasted, if it were possible for him, to be at Jerusalem the day of Pentecost.

1 Corinthians 5:7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us: 8Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavenedbread of sincerity and truth.

Paul stated we establish the Torah:

Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Paul taught from the Torah:

Acts 28:23 And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening.

Paul Obeyed the Torah:

Acts 21:24 Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law.

Romans 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Paul took Delight in the Torah:

Romans 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

Paul taught us to imitate him:

1 Corinthians 4:16 Wherefore I beseech you, be ye followers of me.

1 Corinthians 11:1 Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.

Jesus told us to repent from our sins and obey the law:

Matthew 4:7 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Matthew 5:17-19 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.20For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Luke 13:3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

Matthew 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? 17And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Matthew 23:2 Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: 3All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.

Matthew 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

Matthew 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Jesus warned against hypocrisy:

Luke 12:1 In the mean time, when there were gathered together an innumerable multitude of people, insomuch that they trode one upon another, he began to say unto his disciples first of all, Beware ye of the leaven of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy.

Jesus warned those who believe in him but don't keep the law:

Matthew 7:21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.22On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’23And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

Jesus taught freedom from being a servant to sin:

John 8:34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

John 8:36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

Sin is transgression of the Law:

1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Romans 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

He that walks with Christ does not commit sin:

Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? 3Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? 4Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: 6Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. 7For he that is dead is freed from sin.

1 John 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. 8He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 9Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 10In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

1 John 3:2 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. 4He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. 6He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

Here is the solution when we sin and fall short:

1 John 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: 2And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

 

[Dan_473]

You see the problem is "I think", not what God think. If you were to come into my home in such a state, I would definitely not consider you clean. I am talking physically clean. You see God has rules for what you are to do in such instances. It is not a matter of heart condition but a matter of physically flat out unclean. The Spirit and the Law agree, seeing it is the same will of God. The Spirit will tell you that you are physically unclean and that you need to wash yourself and your clothes.

I use "I think" as a way of adding gentleness to what I write.

"It is not a matter of heart condition but a matter of physically flat out unclean."

I believe torah is all about heart condition.

 

[Dan_473]

You are free to believe and do what ever you want. But your belief cannot be supported by the bible with sound doctrine.

"he who is spiritual appraises all things, yet he himself is appraised by no one. 16 For who has known the mind of the Lord, that he will instruct Him? But we have the mind of Christ."
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1 cor+2&version=nasb

 

[redeemed2014]

Hi redeemed2014,

Lots of questions!

But why suppose the law is "forced" upon anyone?

Rather, it is a privilege and JOY to partake in the covenants (Eph. 2:12).

What covenants? Abrahamic, Mosaic, and New Covenants! (ALL of which have associated Torah we should obey).

I don't have time right now to answer everything on your mind....

Can you explain where you think these questions lead you?

Then we can take it from there.

Especially, why assume we are now "in the age of grace"?

After all, the same word for grace (Gr. "charis") appears likewise in the LXX (e.g., Ex. 33:13) where Moses perceived God's grace.

And what is Moses' response to this grace? To seek to know God and His ways (Ex. 33:13).

And where did God's ways come to be written? The written Torah of Moses (1 Ki. 2:3).

So there you have it: GRACE and TORAH, hand-in-hand.

God graciously credited righteousness to our father Abraham by faith (Rom. 4:3), but Abraham ALSO obeyed Torah available to him (Ge. 26:5).

Likewise, we (like our father Abraham) are righteous by faith, but we ALSO seek to grow in faithful obedience to the Torah of the covenants in which we participate.

Remember, the same "Torah" passes straight into the New Covenant (see "Torah", Jer. 31:33).

blessings...
BibleGuy

So do you agree that the Lord dealt with man different ways through out the bible?

Also the profits did not see the mystery that was kept secret since the world began which was revealed to us through Paul.

Romans 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

The gospel which Paul is speaking about can be found in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 which states that by belief in the death, burial, and Resurrection of our dear Lord we are saved. We are also told of what happens when we add to the Word of God Revelations 22:18. Taking that into account anytime Paul tells us this gospel it is always by belief and faith, never are we told anything different by Paul when telling us this gospel.

That being said once we are saved by belief and faith in this gospel we become a new creature, dying to the flesh and living in the Spirit. Once we are being led by the Spirit we will not be led into breaking commandments, although unfortunately sometimes the flesh wins. But when we lose to the flesh and break a commandment the Lord has already taken care of that, He will pick us up and dust us off. That is the grace of God

 

[Dan_473]

1 CORINTHIANS 10:27 But if one of those who don’t believe invites you to a meal, and you are inclined to go, eat whatever is set before you, asking no questions for the sake of conscience.



I am not concerned about eating unclean foods.

there are things set before me I won't eat,though. for example, under-cooked chicken.

 

[simplifiedtruth]

1 CORINTHIANS 10:27 But if one of those who don’t believe invites you to a meal, and you are inclined to go, eat whatever is set before you, asking no questions for the sake of conscience.



I am not concerned about eating unclean foods.

there are things set before me I won't eat,though. for example, under-cooked chicken.

It is not talking about unclean meats, but meat offered to other god's/idols. Also why would a nonbeliever offer one from the house of Judah or follower of Christ (also considered an Israelite) unclean meats ? That would be very unrespectful. Take it into todays context, if you invite a Jew to dinner would you serve him swine ? Or a Muslim ? Obviously not. The context is about the meats being sold in the markets having been offered up to idols.

1 Corinthians 10:27 Whatsoever is sold in the shambles, that eat, asking no question for conscience sake: 26For the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof. 27If any of them that believe not bid you to a feast, and ye be disposed to go; whatsoever is set before you, eat, asking no question for conscience sake. 28But if any man say unto you, This is offered in sacrifice unto idols, eat not for his sake that shewed it, and for conscience sake: for the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof:.

Are you copy pasting singular verses from other sites or are you going into the bible text to look what it says for yourself ? It seems to be a lot of "taking out of context" going on.

 

[simplifiedtruth]

So do you agree that the Lord dealt with man different ways through out the bible?

Also the profits did not see the mystery that was kept secret since the world began which was revealed to us through Paul.

Romans 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

The gospel which Paul is speaking about can be found in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 which states that by belief in the death, burial, and Resurrection of our dear Lord we are saved. We are also told of what happens when we add to the Word of God Revelations 22:18. Taking that into account anytime Paul tells us this gospel it is always by belief and faith, never are we told anything different by Paul when telling us this gospel.

That being said once we are saved by belief and faith in this gospel we become a new creature, dying to the flesh and living in the Spirit. Once we are being led by the Spirit we will not be led into breaking commandments, although unfortunately sometimes the flesh wins. But when we lose to the flesh and break a commandment the Lord has already taken care of that, He will pick us up and dust us off. That is the grace of God

Remember that salvation has always been available to the nations to whom so ever believe. God has not discriminated. If one from another nation were to become one of Israel and keep the same covenant he would be saved just as them (Excodus 12:49).

The very good news for the House of Israel which was given a bill of divorcement from God (Jeremiah 3:8). Was that according to God's own Law (Deut 24:1-4) they were now free to remarry God by He's(Christ) death, burial, and resurrection (Romans 7:1-6).

I am not saying it is not good news for anyone else that Christ is our salvation but this is the mystery of the gospel: How could the house of Israel come back again to God without violating God's own law. I hope you understand what I am trying to say, or go into the verses and read for a better understanding.

 

[simplifiedtruth]

I use "I think" as a way of adding gentleness to what I write.

"It is not a matter of heart condition but a matter of physically flat out unclean."

I believe torah is all about heart condition.

Yes the Torah is all about heart condition. It shows you what your heart consists of. The bible calls your heart a heart of stone if you refuse to obey God's laws. When we obey God's laws with a good conscience towards Him we are showing our love to him. To obey is better than sacrifice and to hearken than the fat of rams. For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry.

1 Samuel 15:23[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][/FONT]And Samuel said, Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice,and to hearken than the fat of rams.23For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, he hath also rejected thee from being king.Saul's Confession24And Saul said unto Samuel, I have sinned: for I have transgressed the commandment of the LORD, and thy words: because I feared the people, and obeyed their voice.

 

[Dan_473]

It is not talking about unclean meats, but meat offered to other god's/idols. Also why would a nonbeliever offer one from the house of Judah or follower of Christ (also considered an Israelite) unclean meats ? That would be very unrespectful. Take it into todays context, if you invite a Jew to dinner would you serve him swine ? Or a Muslim ? Obviously not. The context is about the meats being sold in the markets having been offered up to idols.

1 Corinthians 10:27 Whatsoever is sold in the shambles, that eat, asking no question for conscience sake: 26For the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof. 27If any of them that believe not bid you to a feast, and ye be disposed to go; whatsoever is set before you, eat, asking no question for conscience sake. 28But if any man say unto you, This is offered in sacrifice unto idols, eat not for his sake that shewed it, and for conscience sake: for the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof:.

Are you copy pasting singular verses from other sites or are you going into the bible text to look what it says for yourself ? It seems to be a lot of "taking out of context" going on.

the unbeliever might not know what meats a person considers clean. the idea is the believer doesn't have to ask. why wouldn't they need to ask?

I know it looks out of context to you. would you ask questions in that dinner situation?

 

[Dan_473]

Yes the Torah is all about heart condition. It shows you what your heart consists of. The bible calls your heart a heart of stone if you refuse to obey God's laws. When we obey God's laws with a good conscience towards Him we are showing our love to him. To obey is better than sacrifice and to hearken than the fat of rams. For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry.

1 Samuel 15:23[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][/FONT]And Samuel said, Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice,and to hearken than the fat of rams.23For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, he hath also rejected thee from being king.Saul's Confession24And Saul said unto Samuel, I have sinned: for I have transgressed the commandment of the LORD, and thy words: because I feared the people, and obeyed their voice.

''When we obey God's laws with a good conscience towards Him we are showing our love to him.''

Yes! and that's what I do... and through faith in Jesus I have a clean heart!

 

[Dan_473]

All things are lawful, but not all things are profitable. All things are lawful, but not all things are beneficial.

It's not about what is lawful or not. It's about what's profitable, beneficial.

 

[simplifiedtruth]

''When we obey God's laws with a good conscience towards Him we are showing our love to him.''

Yes! and that's what I do... and through faith in Jesus I have a clean heart!

Do you eat swine or shellfish ? If so then that is not what you do (keeping God's laws).

 

[simplifiedtruth]

All things are lawful, but not all things are profitable. All things are lawful, but not all things are beneficial.

It's not about what is lawful or not. It's about what's profitable, beneficial.

All things are lawful to those who already are obedient to the law, but that does not mean all things are beneficial to do just because you have a right to do it (like eating meat in front of a vegetarian, thereby causing and offense).

 

[simplifiedtruth]

the unbeliever might not know what meats a person considers clean. the idea is the believer doesn't have to ask. why wouldn't they need to ask?

I know it looks out of context to you. would you ask questions in that dinner situation?

What so ever is set before you that eat, as long as it does not make you commit a sin. If the person has not told you what kind of food he is serving you and it might be swines flesh, then you are obviously to ask if he is serving you swine or other unclean food. If you know what you are to put into your mouth then you don't have to ask any questions. You don't ask if what he is serving has been offered to idols/god's for he's conscious sake.