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Amellinialman
Guest
Please give more than just telling me your opinion. I stand on the Word of God. The issue is the "the interpretation of tongues." it is not my opinion because I do not give opinions. Benny Hinn, Kenneth Copeland, Jesse Duplantis, Fred Price, T.D. Jakes, Marilynn Hicky, Joyce Meyers, Kenneth Hagin, Oral Roberts, Essek W. Kenyon, and Phineas P. Quimby and others are all false teachers who teach a doctrine of demons. These pastors all teach a form of charismatic doctrine. Beware of wolves in sheep clothing!
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popeye
Guest
No,you stand on the verses you were taught.
Paul spoke several languages.
He said when he spoke in tongues his spirit prayed but his mind was unfruitful.
You do not know what you are talking about.
Oh ye wise one: Not all of us Charismatics agree with and/or listen to those people!!
How's that grab ya?
I have given you more
I pointed out that in 1cor chapter 12, 13, 14 speak of what is know as the gifts of the Holy Spirit. The context of the thread is have they ceased. I do not believe they have. You want to speak about those who abuse the gifts of the Holy Spirit Just because a person(s) misuse the gifts don't mean they are not for today. I agree that their are those who have and do misuse the gift but that is all the gifts. Your context of passages you used to show the gifts are done away with was out of context . you want to speak about people I would like to speak about the scriptures and what they say about the subject.
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Amellinialman
Guest
Is that your response? Read the great reformers. Martin Luther, John Calvin, Jonathan Edwards and Benjamin Warfield. Yes, you are correct. Paul spoke several languages. Aramaic, Hebrew, Greek and probably Latin since he was a Roman citizen. He spoke known, intelligible languages. Please give me a better argument than what you are proposing. A little bit of knowledge in Greek would go a long way.
Popeye, thats not fair! Till now nobody could through away my doubtings. The reasons for that i wrote down in my last post. Why not? You cant! To tell me I hate you ore the HS (means Holy Scripture) is a false accusation.
But Yes I hate false teaching which leds many people astray!
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Amellinialman
Guest
The gift of tongues are not normative. The issue is what are tongues today that have ceased. How do you interpret the manner of tongues that have ceased or not ceased. Yes, I am a cessationist. No one has given me a rational argument. And by the way I am quite familiar with 1Cor.12, 13 and 14. The issue of cessation is directly related to their interpretation. Jesus warned those who continually seek a sign.
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Amellinialman
Guest
Jesus denounced false teachings. Jude those who continue with false doctrine are clouds without water. A charismatic preacher told me I was not saved because I do not speek in tongues or baptized in the Holy Spirit. How does one become so arrogant and presumptuos to tell someone who is saved a lie. That is an affront to me. It is a grave sin to question God's motives. As Martin Luther said, I stand on the Word of God. I can do no other.
Nowhere does the Bible say tongues or prophecy will cease this side of eternity. Plus, if they have ended, then so has knowledge, So we might as well close our Bibles, close our Churches and stop preaching/teaching, as no one will be able to learn anything, Because knowledge has vanished away. Daniel said knowledge will increase in the last days, NOT vanish.
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Amellinialman
Guest
Knowledge of what? Gifts of what? God desires one thing that we all come to the saving knowledge of His Son Jesus Christ and Him crucified and resurrected. He ascended to the Father anh will return one day. The Gospel. The fruit of the Spirit are the true gifts. Love, joy peace, etc. Have we as Christians forgot this. The gifts of tongues, healing prophecy are works that cannot save. So whether or not they have ceased...or not, who cares. That should not be the focus. The writer in Hebrews tells us to leave the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ and move on to perfection. I would do well to heed his advice. Good night brother. Godspeed.
the gifts of the HS were never ever freely available to all and sundry[Jn.14:17] but only to the Church were it is still available - the Church was never ever built on all and sundry but on an individual particular person - where that particular person is there is the Church imho - wincam
you are very condescending and some what rude. I do the know the greek and your contextual interpretation is not correct in what I do not about the Greek. And I know this maybe a stretch but there is no gospel of Luther, Calvin , Edwards and Warfield. Not trying to give you a better arugemrnt your mind is made up but you have stated that "A charismatic preacher told me I was not saved because I do not speek in tongues or baptized in the Holy Spirit".
that is error I agree with you. The Bible doesn't teach that. But you are incorrect that the gifts of the Holy Spirt is not normative in scripture. The Holy Spirit has been empowering men and women throughout the whole bible.
who cares ? They are called the Gifts of the Holy Spirit recorded in the Word of God. Well God has used me and continues to do so in the Gifts of the Spirit and i pray in the Spirit each day
that doesn't make me more saved nor if you are not used in this way make you less saved. But I can not speak about the Gifts of the Holy Spirit even the ones I think are not for today. as you stated " So whether or not they have ceased... or not, who cares". The Word of God does as 1Cor chapter 12, 13, 14 were written who gives them, how to use them , and how to discipline those who use them wrongly. Why would so much instruction be given for something that is not for today LOl ?
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Amellinialman
Guest
I did not say I did not believe you. Why am I rude. If God so choses to give you these gifts, praise God. But please do not attack me. I do not attack you. God has given me gifts too. These issues are peripheral. It is the Gospel that is important. If I come across to harsh and it is perceived as condescending, forgive me.
I am not attack you I said you seem rude in your responses or angry . I was pointing out that you are using a very board brush in what you are saying which I do agree with some of it. It is not important you believe me I respect your position .
And if you have gifts too who did they come from? The Holy Spirit ? why would The Holy Spirit only give the select few gifts and not to the whole body? there are specific given to all for The Benefit of all. We are on the same page in context to error of these gifts I agree and it should be addressed amen. But the working of the holy Spirit and HIS gifts should not be mocked or rendered not for today When The Hol Spirit is still active in the earth calling those to salvation.
I'm not being rude here or anything, but please read 1 Corinthians. Nothing has ceased at this time and Paul is writing unto the churches so that all things will be done decently and in order. This is the Word of God and there is a reason that he is writing regarding the gifts.
Now concerning the people you have mentioned here Benny Hinn and etc. they are just people. People make mistakes and we do not hold their mistakes against the word of God. God's word is true and does not fail, No matter how many people fail, God and his words will never fail.
We are not to put confidence in men, but we are to look unto God and his Word. God's word is truth and we cannot add to or take away from his words. If we go picking and choosing in the Bible then we are taking away from his words. In 1 Thessalonians 5: 19-20 We are told to quench not the spirit and to despise not prophesying. There are some people out there making a mockery of the word of God, but we cannot hold their sins against the true word of God. His words are true and no one can take away from his truth and power.
Misuse of tongues is indeed demonic. Calling bonafide use demonic is unforgiveable. Disagree if you have to, but as Paul says do not forbid them (1 Cor. 14:39) and do not attribute them to satan (you know those references).
I too pray for your soul, for I feel fearful of the consequences you are bringing upon it.