What Paul taught other than romans 8:1 lol

[Grace777x70]

Yes and that 'participating' can take the form of 'striving' and 'working' hopefully without being called legalistic.

But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.
(1Co 15:10)

Amen...whether this "striving and working" is legalistic or through the grace of God working through us....only the Lord can answer that one.

Those works will be judged when they go through the fire that Paul talks about in Corinthians.

Unless the Lord build the house - they labor in vain who build it.

I do like your scripture that shows it was not Paul in his flesh/self-effort doing it ( NOT "I" said Paul )...but it was the grace of God which was with him doing these labors through him. Great scripture!

 

[miknik5]

I have a question to ask you, SpiritinTruth?
What are you basing your "judgement" on?
TRUTH?

Have you seen your brother/sister sin?
Why are you trying to uncover it?

If one has sinned, they are to confess their sins and be restored...and if they do confess their sins HE is faithful and just to purify them of all unrighteousness.

Did you know that the one who HOPES IN HIM....purifies themselves, even as HE is pure?

But here you are, claiming to be a member of HIS BODY, having no proof that one in this fellowship, here on this internet has sinned...why?

and if they have and they confess their sin to you, what will you do for that brother/sister?
Will you, like Paul, oversee them in their walk and stay with them?

I don't think you can...but you are ready to accuse them that they must have sinned, maybe they have sinned, probably they have sinned?

I am confused...
When you SEE your brother/sister sin...then tell them their sin (and even this is done in goodness and grace in private)...but here, what is this?
Is this edification to THE BODY, or a kind of tearing up, separation of THE BODY...with what, those on one side who claim they are born of HIS SPIRIT who are perfect, and those on another side claiming they are born of HIS SPIRIT, but not willing to boast in their own self-declared righteousness apart from THE ONE whom they understand is the ONE who washed and made them clean from the beginning.


What "works" should we be professing?
Is there a certain "work"...other than REMAINING IN HIM...that we should all be doing to ensure our salvation? To assure our brothers and sisters that we are not sinners? But we are...apart from HIM, yes we are unclean and unwashed...but because of HIM we are clean and washed and declared righteous...because of HIS COVERING..not our own...

 

[crossnote]

Amen...whether this "striving and working" is legalistic or through the grace of God working through us....only the Lord can answer that one.

Those works will be judged when they go through the fire that Paul talks about in Corinthians.

Unless the Lord build the house - they labor in vain who build it.

I do like your scripture that shows it was not Paul in his flesh/self-effort doing it ( NOT "I" said Paul )...but it was the grace of God which was with him doing these labors through him. Great scripture!

As long as it is balanced with, "but I labored more abundantly", seeing that God works through means.
I see a lot of the see-sawing on this issue is due to only taking one side of the coin.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

I have a question to ask you, SpiritinTruth?
What are you basing your "judgement" on?
TRUTH

Come and see--->>>>>>>>

Originally Posted by InSpiritInTruth

That is why so many congregations are in the sad shape they are in today, because they do not judge righteous judgment by the words of God. They put no difference between the holy and the profane, and thus they have become congregations of sinners not holy saints.

1 Corinthians 5:9-13 "I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:[SUP]10 [/SUP]Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
[SUP]13 [/SUP]But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person."

 

[PilgrimPassingThru]

That is why so many congregations are in the sad shape they are in today, because they do not judge righteous judgment by the words of God. They put no difference between the holy and the profane, and thus they have become congregations of sinners not holy saints.

1 Corinthians 5:9-13 "I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:[SUP]10 [/SUP]Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
[SUP]13 [/SUP]But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person."

Yeah they removed the same from themselves

1 Cr 5:1 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you,
and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles,
that one should have his father's wife.

1 Cr 5:2 And ye are puffed up, and have notrather mourned,
that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.

By Paul's next letter it seemed the man was made sorrowful (even as they were) especially with how lightly they seemed to treat the matter as he mentions. It seems to show the was punishment (for such a thing) that was to be inflicted was to be inflicted upon the one of the many (together) and was sufficient

2 Cr 2:6 Sufficient to such a man is this punishment, which was inflicted of many.

2 Cr 2:7 So that contrariwise ye ought rather to forgive him, and comfort him,
lest perhaps such a one should be swallowed up with overmuch sorrow.

2 Cr 2:8 Wherefore I beseech you that ye would confirm your love toward him.

2 Cr 2:9 For to this end also did I write, that I might know the proof of you,
whether ye be obedient in all things.

 

[Grace777x70]

As long as it is balanced with, "but I labored more abundantly", seeing that God works through means.
I see a lot of the see-sawing on this issue is due to only taking one side of the coin.

Yes..it seems that when we receive the abundance of grace - grace works in us to work His works through us.

I believe the more the grace of Christ is taught ( along with the gift of righteousness ) the more we will have the grace to do what it is the Lord has for us to do. Paul worked more abundantly because of he had received the grace to do this abundant work.

One does have to be open to receive the grace too.

Romans 5:17 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] For if by the transgression of the one, death reigned through the one, much more those who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.

But all these works will go through the fire and then we'll see what they were built on - Christ or ourselves in our own flesh.

Until that day I don't think we can judge someone else's work whether it be by the grace of Christ working through him or not.

Man sees the outward appearance but the Lord looks on the heart. I think that's in 1 Samuel somewhere?

 

[crossnote]

That is why so many congregations are in the sad shape they are in today, because they do not judge righteous judgment by the words of God. They put no difference between the holy and the profane, and thus they have become congregations of sinners not holy saints.

1 Corinthians 5:9-13 "I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:[SUP]10 [/SUP]Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
[SUP]13 [/SUP]But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person."

Congregations are made up of sinners, Church is our hospital.
There are those who sin out of weakness and those who sin out of pleasure...hopefully we are in the first group.

 

[John146]

Romans 8:1 "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."

Nothing wrong with Romans 8:1, but many deceivers try to say the part in red was not in the original letters, but that is just a lie to try to distort the Truth. The part in red is right in line with the rest of gospel message, and that is unrighteousness and ongoing sinners (those who walk after the flesh) shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Sin does not reign in a persons life if they are truly under Grace and in the Spirit, but this message is being perverted and distorted by many deceivers here in the last days.

The whole context of Romans 7 into 8 is overcoming the flesh by walking after the Spirit. There is condemnation to those believers who walk after the flesh, but not eternal condemnation...big difference. Walking after the flesh always has a consequence whether it's condemnation in this life, physically, or condemnation at the JSOC. Remember, all condemnation means is judgment, temporal or eternal. Paul gives an example of temporal condemnation in chapter 14:

15 But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.

16 Let not then your good be evil spoken of:

17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

18 For he that in these things serveth Christ is acceptable to God, and approved of men.

19 Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.

20 For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence.

21 It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.

22 Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.

23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

This is not eternal condemnation, rather temporal.

 

[miknik5]

The whole context of Romans 7 into 8 is overcoming the flesh by walking after the Spirit. There is condemnation to those believers who walk after the flesh, but not eternal condemnation...big difference. Walking after the flesh always has a consequence whether it's condemnation in this life, physically, or condemnation at the JSOC. Remember, all condemnation means is judgment, temporal or eternal. Paul gives an example of temporal condemnation in chapter 14:

15 But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.

16 Let not then your good be evil spoken of:

17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

18 For he that in these things serveth Christ is acceptable to God, and approved of men.

19 Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.

20 For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence.

21 It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.

22 Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.

23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

This is not eternal condemnation, rather temporal.

The letter to the Romans is also about judging...the roman believers were actually lording it over and judging their unbelieving jewish older brothers as lost...and Paul had to remind them that GOD can easily bring in the natural branches...and they, wild shoots were grafted in and, provided they remain in GOD'S goodness, they too could be cut off...

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Congregations are made up of sinners, Church is our hospital.
There are those who sin out of weakness and those who sin out of pleasure...hopefully we are in the first group.

Christian congregations are supposed to be a reflection of the True Church and Body of Christ, not a harlot bride.

Ephesians 5:27
That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

 

[miknik5]

Christian congregations are supposed to be a reflection of the True Church and Body of Christ, not a harlot bride.

Ephesians 5:27
That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

Do you share in the lives of your congregants?

And the verse you quote is talking about HIM presenting HIS BRIDE...
Doesn't HE already know HIS BRIDE?
And doesn't HIS BRIDE already know the voice of THEIR BRIDEGROOM?

It's the whole point...that they listen to HIM..
And GOD is a purifier, a launderer, a refiner and a pruner...HE is able to discipline and rebuke HIS CHILDREN so that they won't be condemned with the rest of the world.

We are actually supposed to judge ourselves...and Paul eventually came to an end in even that and no longer judged himself, and still understood that this did not make him innocent, but that the LORD would judge him
And so Paul simply left himself to THE LORD who judges justly, who will lay bare the hidden agenda and motives of the hearts and minds of ALL men...and then men will receive his praise.

Or not...

Nothing is hidden from GOD'S EYES>

Thank HIM if HE convicts us of sin.
Because the alternative is NOT good...

It is a seared conscience and the storing up of HIS WRATH to the day.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

Weeds grow of themselves. Denying that a garden needs continual work to keep it clean eventually leads the garden to ruin.

Ephesians 1:11-14
King James Version(KJV)

11.)In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

12.)That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.

13.)In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

14.)Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

The whole context of Romans 7 into 8 is overcoming the flesh by walking after the Spirit. There is condemnation to those believers who walk after the flesh, but not eternal condemnation...big difference.

Again, walking after the flesh is walking in ongoing sin, and a servant of sin abides not in the house forever=Eternity.

1 Corinthians 6:1-10 "Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints?[SUP]2 [/SUP]Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?
[SUP]4 [/SUP]If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren?
[SUP]6 [/SUP]But brother goeth to law with brother, and that before the unbelievers.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Now therefore there is utterly a fault among you, because ye go to law one with another. Why do ye not rather take wrong? why do ye not rather suffer yourselves to be defrauded?
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Nay, ye do wrong, and defraud, and that your brethren.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

 

[John146]

Ephesians 1:11-14
King James Version(KJV)

11.)In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

12.)That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.

13.)In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

14.)Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

If not, we'd all fall short, even those who never sin on this board.

 

[hornetguy]

I think the OP's posted scriptures explain what a true "grace follower" naturally does.

I think the exhortations given to do good, don't sin, etc, were exactly for the people that saw grace as a "get out of jail free" card allowing us to sin as much as we want, knowing that we are saved.

I don't know of any of the "grace" folks that believe that, on this forum.... most of them indicate that we are holy only because of grace...... but SINCE we are holy, we will naturally walk in the light. We will naturally DO the things that Christ told us to do, because we are saved through grace..... not so that we WILL be saved through grace.

It's about a Christ-like spirit, not rules.

 

[mpaper345]

Paul did a lot of rebuking,and exhorting,and correcting,and telling saints how they ought to act,and not to fool themselves if they think that their lifestyle does not matter,for they are to put away the filth of the flesh,and live no more like that.

Paul said,if he did not keep under his body,and keep it in subjection,he would be a castaway.

Paul said if after we are saved we do not continue in God's goodness,we will be cut off.

Paul said we do not void out the law by faith,but we establish the law.

Paul said work out your own salvation,with fear,and trembling,for not everyone continues in what they started,which Jesus said,any person that puts their hand to the plow,looking back,is not fit for the kingdom of God,so once we are saved,we do not want sin anymore in our life,so if we go back to it,we are not fit for the kingdom of God.

But of course we can repent of our sin,all through our walk with God.

When I read the writings of Paul,he comes across as one who is strict in acting like Christ,and if not,we will not obtain salvation.

 

[Grace777x70]

I think the OP's posted scriptures explain what a true "grace follower" naturally does.

I think the exhortations given to do good, don't sin, etc, were exactly for the people that saw grace as a "get out of jail free" card allowing us to sin as much as we want, knowing that we are saved.

I don't know of any of the "grace" folks that believe that, on this forum.... most of them indicate that we are holy only because of grace...... but SINCE we are holy, we will naturally walk in the light. We will naturally DO the things that Christ told us to do, because we are saved through grace..... not so that we WILL be saved through grace.

It's about a Christ-like spirit, not rules.

Well said.....

The more we learn about Jesus and what He has done for us - it imparts grace to us to be who we already are in our new creation in Christ. - created in righteousness and holiness. I love these below scriptures as they speak of us growing in the grace and knowledge of Christ which help us to grow up in Him.

1 Peter 1:13
[SUP]13 [/SUP] Therefore, prepare your minds for action, keep sober in spirit, fix your hope completely on the grace being brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ.

Acts 20:32 (NASB)
[SUP]32 [/SUP] "And now I commend you to God and to the word of His grace, which is able to build you up and to give you the inheritance among all those who are sanctified.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

I think the OP's posted scriptures explain what a true "grace follower" naturally does.

I think the exhortations given to do good, don't sin, etc, were exactly for the people that saw grace as a "get out of jail free" card allowing us to sin as much as we want, knowing that we are saved.

I don't know of any of the "grace" folks that believe that, on this forum.... most of them indicate that we are holy only because of grace...... but SINCE we are holy, we will naturally walk in the light. We will naturally DO the things that Christ told us to do, because we are saved through grace..... not so that we WILL be saved through grace.

It's about a Christ-like spirit, not rules.

What do you call this? I know what I call it.

Yes if a Christian tells a lie, they have sinned in the flesh. What we do in our flesh has consequences, but salvation is not one of them because our spirit cannot commit sin. We are secure in Him. There is plenty of scripture support for this that is continually used here but seems to be rarely recognized because to do so might make someones thinking of what biblical truth is. Please read the scripture and recognize salvation is a work of God, not man.

 

[posthuman]

what you quoted is very much the truth, but it is not a basis for judging one another. that remains the sole prerogative of the Lord.

That is why so many congregations are in the sad shape they are in today, because they do not judge righteous judgment by the words of God. They put no difference between the holy and the profane, and thus they have become congregations of sinners not holy saints.

this isn't about judging whether iniquity is iniquity or not.

this is about judging whether a soul is saved or not - whether a sheep remains a sheep, a son a son - whether a brother or a sister is still a brother and a sister, even if they are led astray, or if they are caught in sin - even if they have never yet in this life escaped it in their flesh - whether God has declared a man righteous or not. because by human judgement, the Pharisees were righteous, and the thief on the cross was not. the man who boasted 'thank God i am not like other men' in the temple was righteous, and the man who said 'have mercy on me a sinner' was not.

but if we dare judge, we should judge righteous judgement - didn't Paul also say that he dare not even judge himself? just one chapter before what you quoted? and didn't he in another place, describing disfellowship, say to hand such a person over for the destruction of their body, so that their soul may be saved?

the problem isn't whether we call "sin" a "sin." we do.
the problem arises when we think we can tell God who He can have mercy on, and who He cannot - because every single one of us are saved by nothing other than divine mercy. if it were by any righteous work we do, it would no longer be grace. these things Paul also taught -- and nothing he taught contradicts itself.

 

[followjesus]

100% gnosticism. Here's how The Theological Dictionary of the New Testament describes this dualistic, mental dissociation process in which a person only identifies with what they want to be (their identity as the righteousness of GOD), and blots out any consciousness or idea contrary to it (their sin nature).

f. Gnosticism offers a radical solution to the conflict of conscience. It is true that instances are very sparse. But the basic dualistic solution involves a full separation between the two egos. The true I of the Gnostic is identical with the divine world of light, while the other I belongs to the chaotic world and is thus to be abandoned. In the final analysis, then, there is no bad conscience for the Gnostic. Naturally this opens the door not merely to asceticism but also to libertinism.​

I'm honestly not really sure what all the technical words mean. I think I do understand your point. conscience is a gift from God to give us direction, ignoring it or pretending we don't have one for the purpose of guiding our behavior. i.e. Guilt leads us to repentance and is a gift. If I myself do something wrong, I'm glad the Lord makes me aware that I need to confess and repent, in that there is forgiveness and cleansing of the conscience, rather than taking it as I'm already forgiven no matter how I treat other people. If a person lies, cheats, steals ect, conviction of the wrong action within the person by way of conscience can only be a good thing that leads to repentance and cleansing as the word says.

Honestly I think guilt when a person sins is a gift of correction when it is followed. I would hate to consider myself worthy In Gods sight when doing the opposite of what He says is right. I see pride in that that opposes who God is, and what Jesus died to accomplish. There is so much confusion do we need to repent? do we need to obey God? should we confess our sin? these are elementary truths found clearly in Gods written word. Humans Love sin its our nature, sin is not of God, and God will never Justify sin in our lives. neglecting the existence of conscience is dangerous, and stifles the cleansing work of Jesus Christ through the spirit of God working in us to make us whole again.