1. Our (at least my) conscience requires it when I sin, as did David's.
2. See #1
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2. See #1
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
Same problem. Different day. (Is Stephen going to kick me for using "different?")
You keep saying "Grace" as if that is your god. What I have against Grace-only is Grace IS their/your god. Muslims and Jews believe in god too. They even believe in jesus. He's merely not the Jesus/God from the Bible. Neither is Grace.
So its works?
Its either grace or works. that's what the bible says..
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
1. Our (at least my) conscience requires it when I sin, as did David's.
2. See #1
So you would not be saved if you did not?
I need to know, because it is important.
I did not ask if we should I ask if we must.
Salvation is a done deal. But just as the prodigal son (he was a son, right?) went back to seek for forgiveness from his father, so do I. It is a must for ongoing personal relationship but not for a static doctrinal standing.
That was completely disparaging to say that those of us who hold to grace-only have made it our "God". As if we somehow worship grace. We take it for what it truly is; unmerited favor from God.
And please don't give me some spiel about that's not what you meant, or that I've twisted what you wrote. Your increasingly bitter tirades and mockery are absolutely shameful.
No one agrees with everything Prince says. No preacher is perfect. But what Prince teaches about grace is spot-on, and until you can disprove what he teaches about grace from scripture, you are doing little but spinning in circles.
1 John 1:5-10 (NASB)
5 This is the message we have heard from Him and announce to you, that God is Light, and in Him there is no darkness at all. 6 If we say that we have fellowship with Him andyet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth; 7 but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin. 8 If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us.
5 This is the message we have heard from Him and announce to you, that God is Light, and in Him there is no darkness at all. 6 If we say that we have fellowship with Him andyet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth; 7 but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin. 8 If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us.
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
Your missing my point.
If someone says Asking forgiveness is required for salvation. I will respond No it is not.
That can, and has been taken by others as I believe we do not have to ask forgiveness. Nor should we. Which is not the case.
Not only should we ask God, but we also should confess to each other..
But you ask those who deny grace they would claim I do not teach asking forgiveness is important. or needed, Which is false..
Context is everything, and why we have these hates arguments
OK, I guess when you asked, "1. Is it required to ask for forgiveness of sin every time to be saved.", I took it to mean you were referring to a Christian. That's the context I was speaking in...as a Christian.
I agree with you. The conclusion is inescapable because some of them personify grace as Jesus; therefore grace is GOD. Except they define grace to be the absence of law (commandments, do-this-do-that) so that there's no imperative to obey Jesus' words.
The way people talk about grace, hyper-grace, if you stand in the street, get the right ideas, you are saved into eternity, no matter what you do.
Now this whole concept, no matter how much they complain is sin and relationship do not matter. So you could become a lover of satan and still be saved. But satan was condemned because of an eternal rebellion. He was given the ability else he would never have fallen. So how is it, in this world, christians who taste and walk in the kingdom of heaven cannot walk away.
So this view of grace is unversalism, but with an initial understanding or taste.
Now the counter position is we are called to walk with Jesus, and the relationship is everything. But we walk in it because it works and is real. But just like Peter, we do stumble, have issues, work through them, and keep faith.
But like couples who have an argument, it does not make them unmarried.
Now to those who say this relationship is not a marriage, why are we the bride of Christ, why do the prophets always talk about Israel being an unfaithful wife, a harlot etc. if this is not Gods language.
Now this whole concept, no matter how much they complain is sin and relationship do not matter. So you could become a lover of satan and still be saved. But satan was condemned because of an eternal rebellion. He was given the ability else he would never have fallen. So how is it, in this world, christians who taste and walk in the kingdom of heaven cannot walk away.
So this view of grace is unversalism, but with an initial understanding or taste.
Now the counter position is we are called to walk with Jesus, and the relationship is everything. But we walk in it because it works and is real. But just like Peter, we do stumble, have issues, work through them, and keep faith.
But like couples who have an argument, it does not make them unmarried.
Now to those who say this relationship is not a marriage, why are we the bride of Christ, why do the prophets always talk about Israel being an unfaithful wife, a harlot etc. if this is not Gods language.
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
I am trying to show why most people say this IN HERE.
I have yet to herar someone say we should never confess our sin under any circumstance. Which was my point..
You would ask, WHy should we confess,, And we all would respond
Vs those who say we must confess (for salvation) which we would respond different.
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
Paul said grace is absence of law. and works.
The law condemns, Grace saves.
It is by the Grace of our Lord Jesus, through our Faith in him, that God saves us. It is not Grace that saves us, it is because of His Grace, when we place our Faith in God, that we are saved. Let's do the proper thing and replace the "Gospel of Grace" with the proper "Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ".
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
I am not sure I understand you, I may be misreading you..
WHo elses grace could it be? Other than Gods grace..
For By GRACE we have been saved by faith.. (Gods grace)
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FreeNChrist
Guest
Asking for forgiveness (for the believer) was in question, not confessing our sin.
I've even seen some state that each piece of our armor in Ephesians 6 can be substituted by the word Jesus. Seems lazy or at least reductionistic.
It boggles the natural mind to consider that people would actually follow Christ even if they didn't "have to". Because spiritual things are spiritually discerned, it makes no sense "logically". But it does "experientally". Scripture also tells us to give with a joyful heart. But I don't see that being debated in here. It's a weird thing, when people say don't make the "gospel" too good. When "gospel" really means good news. Scripture tells us that we have "fruit of the spirit". Yet people think that somehow means "fruit of the law". It tells us where the Spirit is there is freedom, but the moment freedom is preached, fear rises up. Yet God didn't give us a spirit of fear, so then why do so many listen to it? And then worse try to enslave others to its voice?
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Depleted
Guest
Now THAT's hit-and-run. A parting shot never to be responded to when I asked the obvious questions.
I'm now wondering if he left because this place is overwhelmed with "HYPER CALVINIST" (Even though I haven't run into a single one of them), or HYPER CALVINISM is like cooties and there's a fear of catching it.
Now, all seriously, does anyone know if the Grace-only people have a special dislike for Calvinists? That one I hadn't caught until two "blamed" me for it, (and I honestly don't know how being something so mainstream as good old fashioned Reformed can constitute as "blame," but heard it more than once like that's worse than getting two warts at the end of both your noses), so just curious if there is a connection. Is there?
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