Verse for "once saved always saved"?

[valiant]

Once saved always saved is a cop out for justifying sin and nothing else. They are bound by sin and seek verses to justify their sin and a doctrine was created by man to justify sin.

Just what men said to Paul (Rom 6.1). But Paul disagreed.

funny thing is, GOD agrees with eternal security:

'All that the Father gives to Me will come to Me, and him who comes to Me I will in no wise cast out. For I am come down from Heaven not to do my own will, but the will of Him Who sent
Me. And this is the will of Him Who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the Last Day,' (John 6.37-39)


But you do not believe (My Father's works) because you are not of My sheep. My sheep hear My voice and I know them, and they follow Me, and I give unto them eternal life, and they shall never perish, and none shall pluck them from My hand. My Father who gave them to Me is greater than all, and no one IS ABLE to pluck them out of the Father's hand. I and my Father are one (John 10.27-30).


All have sinned and come short of the glory of God, being accounted as righteous by His grace FREELY through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus, Whom God has set forth to be a propitiation through faith by His blood (Rom 3,23-25).


'Even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you, so that you come behind in no gift, waiting for the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ,who will also confirm you unto the end, that you might be unreproveable in the Day of our Lord Jesus Christ.' (1 Corinth 1.6-8). (and this the corinthian church!)


'By grace you are saved, through faith, and that (gracious act) not of yourselves, it is the gift of God and not of doings, lest any man should boast, for we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God has before ordained that we should walk in them' (Eph 2.8-10).


'Being confident of this very thing, that he which has begun a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Jesus Christ' (Phil 2.6).


'Who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our doings, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began, but now has been manifested by the appearing of our Saviour, Christ Jesus, who abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the Gospel (2 Tim 1.9).


I am not ashamed, for I know Him Whom I have believed, and am persuaded that He is able to keep that which I have committed to Him against that Day (2 Tim 1.12).


But when the kindness of God our Saviour, and His love towards man appeared, not by works done in righteousness which we did ourselves, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, which He poured out upon us richly through Christ Jesus our Saviour, that being justified by His grace we might be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. (Titus 3.4-7).


Wherein God, being minded to show more abundantly unto the heirs of promise the immutability of His Counsel, interposed with an oath, that by two immutable things in which it is impossible for God to lie we may have a strong encouragement who have fled for refuge to lay hold of the hope set before us, which we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and steadfast, and entering into that within the veil, whither as a forerunner Jesus entered for us, having become a High Priest for ever after the order of Melchisedek (Heb 7.7-20).


Wherefore He is able to save to the uttermost them that come unto God by Him, seeing He ever lives to make intercession for them (Heb 7.25).


He has perfected for ever those who are being sanctified (Heb 10.14)

 

[Amellinialman]

What is the purpose of this question?

 

[Amellinialman]

Once saved always saved or not is a faulty premise. God has saved His elect. It is by election He choses save. It is by human choice that God condemns to Hell. Let us talk about this theologically and hermeneutically.

 

[Valmar]

Hey Chester. I just started a thread today called Eternal security. You can see more comments concerning this at that title.

 

[Amellinialman]

Valiant, very well Scriptures to reference. Let us do well to remember God has saved His elect. And His elect are commanded to proclaim the Gospel fo the uttermost ends of the earth. To go in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. It is God who draws people to Himself. He chooses His elect. Those who are condemned chose that road. God commands all to repent and believe the Gospel, however, there will be those who reject the saving Grace of the Lord Jesus Christ and they will die in their sins and be separated from God forever.

 

[Johnlove]

Everything was made through Jesus Christ our Lord and God, because he is God. But Jesus is God become man, and he was conceived by God in Mary his Mother. That is when Jesus Christ came into being. Jesus is also God, and God is called I Am. When Jesus said I Am he was telling us he is God. God is the Father, Son, Holy Spirit, now, but before Jesus it was the Father/I Am.

God did not conceive his Son in Heaven, did God? No God conceived Jesus the man here on earth to a woman. It was Jesus the man that gave us the Words his Father in heaven had him give us. If it was Jesus our Lord and God giving us those Words, then Jesus would not need be doing as his Father in heaven was telling him.

People should know that we are going to be judged by the Words that Jesus Christ our Lord and God gave us, and not the words of the Old Testament prophets.
Jesus is God, and his Words are the Commandments that Jesus said we would be judged by, not the Commandments of the Old Law.
Read what Jesus told us.

Notice he said those who did not keep his words would be judged by his Word that he spoke. We are not going to be judged by any of the words said by Old Testament Prophet.


(John 12:47-48) “If anyone hears my words and does not keep them faithfully, it is not I who shall condemn him, since I have come not to condemn the world, but to save the world: he who rejects me and refuses my words has his judge already; the word itself that I have spoken will be his judge on the last day.”



The Words Jesus spoke are recorded, any way the one’s he has for us to live, in the New Testament Bible.

(Romans 7:4) “That is why you, my brothers, who through the body of Christ are now dead to the Law, can now give yourselves to another husband, to him who rose from the dead to make us productive for God.”

(Matthew 5:17) “Do not imagine that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets. I have come not to abolish but to complete them. I tell you solemnly, till heaven and earth disappear, not one dot, not one little stroke, shall disappear from the Law until its purpose is achieved.”

No we do not need to keep the Ten Commandments, as they were written. Jesus summed up the Ten Commandments.

(Matthew 22:39-40) “What is the greatest commandment of the Law? Jesus said, ‘You must love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the greatest and the first commandment. The second resembles it: You must love your neighbor us yourself. On these two commandments hang the whole Law,”

 

[Amellinialman]

Who then can be saved? With men it is impossible but with God all things are possible. When God saves. Why do wrestle with. God is sovereign. God has chosen His elect from before He laid the foundations of the world. Therfore one should ask himself if they are elected. It is God who saves we contribute nothing. We need to examine ourselves to see if we are in the faith. Hold fast to what is noble. Cling to the Truth. Loss of salvation? Really, the question is pedantic. One has salvation or does not.

 

[Amellinialman]

When God saves we are secure in His hands and no one can be plucked out. Christ died for the elect. Salvation is exclusive. Christ died for all but all will not be saved. Bow the knee to the Lord of lords and King of kings and receive his free gifts. The free gift of repentance, forgiveness, baptism and His eucharist. His body, His blood has been given to us so let us not grow weary in doing good. Losing salvation? Come now let us reason together.

 

[Amellinialman]

Do we need to keep the Ten Commandments? Pedantic. Christ set the bar so high to show us we are corrupt with sin. Hate is equated with murder. Lust with adultery. Love keeps the Commandments.

 

[Johnlove]

Do we need to keep the Ten Commandments? Pedantic. Christ set the bar so high to show us we are corrupt with sin. Hate is equated with murder. Lust with adultery. Love keeps the Commandments.

People should know that we are going to be judged by the Words that Jesus Christ our Lord and God gave us, and not the words of the Old Testament prophets.
Jesus is God, and his Words are the Commandments that Jesus said we would be judged by, not the Commandments of the Old Law.
Read what Jesus told us.

Notice he said those who did not keep his words would be judged by his Word that he spoke. We are not going to be judged by any of the words said by Old Testament Prophet.


(John 12:47-48) “If anyone hears my words and does not keep them faithfully, it is not I who shall condemn him, since I have come not to condemn the world, but to save the world: he who rejects me and refuses my words has his judge already; the word itself that I have spoken will be his judge on the last day.”


The Words Jesus spoke are recorded, any way the one’s he has for us to live, in the New Testament Bible.

Some of the Words that if one does not keep will condemn them on the last day can be read below. By the way scripture tells us how to know who it is that God has chosen, his elect. They are his children.

(1 John 3:9-10) “No one who has been begotten by God sins; because God’s seed remains inside him, he cannot sin when he has been begotten by God. In this way we distinguish the children of God from the children of the devil: anybody not living a holy life and not loving his brother is no child of God’s.”

Notice if one sins, and that includes not keeping God’s Commandments, he or she is of the devil. Those following the devil are not God’s elect.

(Matthew 5:39) “You have learnt how it was said: ‘Eye for eye and tooth for tooth.’ But I say this to you: offer the wicked man no resistance.”

(Matthew 6:19) “Do not store up treasures for yourselves on earth, where moths and woodworms destroy them and thieves can break in and steal.”

(Luke 14:33) “So in the same way, none of you can be my disciple unless he gives up all his possessions.”

(Matthew 23:8-9) “You, however must not allow yourselves to be called Rabbi, since you have only one Master, and you are all brothers. You must call no one on earth your father, since you have only one Father, and he is in heaven.”

(1 Corinthians 6:9-19) “You know perfectly well that people who do wrong will not inherit the Kingdom of God: people of immoral lives, idolaters, adulterers, catamites, sodomites, thieves, usurers, drunkards, slanders and swindlers will never inherit the kingdom of God.”

Immoral lives: bad, wicked, dissolute, dissipated, profligate, referring to conduct, applies to one who acts contrary to or doesnot obey or conform to standards of morality,

Idolaters: a worshiper of idols.
Adulterers: voluntary sexual intercourse between a married person and someone other than his or her lawful spouse.

Catamites: a boy or youth who is in a sexual relationship with a man.

Sodomites: a person who engages in sodomy.
Anal or oral copulation with a member of the opposite sex. Copulation with a member of the same sex.

Copulation: sexual intercourse.2.a joining together or coupling.

Thieves: a person who steals, especially secretly or without open force; one guilty of theft or larceny.

2. Obsolete. a person who lends money at interest.

Drunkards: a person who is habitually or frequently drunk.

Drunk: being in a temporary state in which one's physical and mental facultiesare impaired by an excess of alcoholic drink; intoxicated:

Slanders: One who gives, a malicious, false, and defamatory statement or report: a slander against his good name.

Swindlers: to cheat (a person, business, etc.) out of money or other assets.
2 to obtain by fraud or deceit.

 

[Chester]

So do I, And in my view, That would prove a person never had true faith in God to begin with. Not to mention, It would mean God gave a person he KNEW was going to be an antichrist something he called a gift, and eternal. Which would damage his reputation if he did not keep his promise in spite of the persons lack of faith..



I just wonder why you would think God would give a gift he called "eternal" Life and the assurance and seal of the Holy Spirit. to someone he knows lacks faith. and will turn from him and eventually reject him outright.

Belief in God and faith in God are not the same..

I don't see why giving someone a gift who you know is going to turn against you would necessarily damage your reputation. Jesus chose Judas as one of his 12 disciples knowing full well that Judas would betray him.

 

[Chester]

Once saved always saved is a cop out for justifying sin and nothing else. They are bound by sin and seek verses to justify their sin and a doctrine was created by man to justify sin.

I don't hold to "once saved always saved", but I have found that not all people who hold to OSAS use it to justify sin. A parallel observation just as true is that not all people who do not believe in OSAS believe that works are what keeps a person saved.

 

[Johnlove]

A reminder to those reading this thread that Jesus told us how we would be judged on the last day. Also remember that one who sins is of the devil, so if you believe what a sinner says about God you are believing what the devil wants you to know about God.

People should know that we are going to be judged by the Words that Jesus Christ our Lord and God gave us, and not the words of the Old Testament prophets.
Jesus is God, and his Words are the Commandments that Jesus said we would be judged by, not the Commandments of the Old Law.
Read what Jesus told us.

(John 12:47-48) “If anyone hears my words and does not keep them faithfully, it is not I who shall condemn him, since I have come not to condemn the world, but to save the world: he who rejects me and refuses my words has his judge already: the word itself that I have spoken will be his judge on the last day.”

(1 John 3:9-10) “No one who has been begotten by God sins; because God’s seed remains inside him, he cannot sin when he has been begotten by God. In this way we distinguish the children of God from the children of the devil: anybody not living a holy life and not loving his brother is no child of God’s.”

See what distinguishes the children of God from the children of the devil. One who sins is a child of the devil.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I don't see why giving someone a gift who you know is going to turn against you would necessarily damage your reputation. Jesus chose Judas as one of his 12 disciples knowing full well that Judas would betray him.

It does, If the gift has the term "eternal" Attached to it.

Eternal life means what it says, eternal life, it is not a religious term. It is a literal thing.

If I give you something, and say it is yours forever and it is given as a gift, Just because I love you, You have the right to reject it, But if you take it, it is yours. If I take it back for any reason. I am not an honorable person.. Because it was not mine to take back, it was yours..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

A reminder to those reading this thread that Jesus told us how we would be judged on the last day. Also remember that one who sins is of the devil, so if you believe what a sinner says about God you are believing what the devil wants you to know about God.

People should know that we are going to be judged by the Words that Jesus Christ our Lord and God gave us, and not the words of the Old Testament prophets.
Jesus is God, and his Words are the Commandments that Jesus said we would be judged by, not the Commandments of the Old Law.
Read what Jesus told us.

(John 12:47-48) “If anyone hears my words and does not keep them faithfully, it is not I who shall condemn him, since I have come not to condemn the world, but to save the world: he who rejects me and refuses my words has his judge already: the word itself that I have spoken will be his judge on the last day.”

(1 John 3:9-10) “No one who has been begotten by God sins; because God’s seed remains inside him, he cannot sin when he has been begotten by God. In this way we distinguish the children of God from the children of the devil: anybody not living a holy life and not loving his brother is no child of God’s.”

See what distinguishes the children of God from the children of the devil. One who sins is a child of the devil.

Just so you know, there are two judgments in the end.

1. Bema Seat, FOr christians only. Rewards are handed out, and tried by fire, Even if one has nothign left but ash (wood hay straw) they are still saved, even though by fire.

2. Great white throne - Marked for unbelievers, who are delivered to Christ (not ressurected by him) They are each tried according to their work, and left condemned, because their works did not ad up. and they rejected Christs Gift (the unpardonable sin)

 

[Johnlove]

Just so you know, there are two judgments in the end.

1. Bema Seat, FOr christians only. Rewards are handed out, and tried by fire, Even if one has nothign left but ash (wood hay straw) they are still saved, even though by fire.

2. Great white throne - Marked for unbelievers, who are delivered to Christ (not ressurected by him) They are each tried according to their work, and left condemned, because their works did not ad up. and they rejected Christs Gift (the unpardonable sin)

You are so right, man’s work is nothing but dirt. But God’s work in man creates a Child of God. Only God’s Children will go to heaven with Jesus Christ our Lord and God. And a Child of God is described by scripture.

(1 John 3:9-10) “No one who has been begotten by God sins; because God’s seed remains inside him, he cannot sin when he has been begotten by God. In this way we distinguish the children of God from the children of the devil: anybody not living a holy life and not loving his brother is no child of God’s.”

Notice if one sins he or she is a child of the devil, and the devil will not go to heaven with Jesus.

(Romans 8:1-4) “The reason, therefore, why those who are in Christ Jesus are not condemned, is that the law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and death. God has done what the Law, because of our unspiritual nature, was unable to do. God dealt with sin by sending his own Son in a body as physical as any sinful body, and in that body God condemned sin he did this in order the Law’s just demands might be satisfied in us, who behave not as our unspiritual nature but as the spirit dictates.”

It is God’s Work in man that gains one the kingdom of God.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You are so right, man’s work is nothing but dirt. But God’s work in man creates a Child of God. Only God’s Children will go to heaven with Jesus Christ our Lord and God. And a Child of God is described by scripture.

(1 John 3:9-10) “No one who has been begotten by God sins; because God’s seed remains inside him, he cannot sin when he has been begotten by God. In this way we distinguish the children of God from the children of the devil: anybody not living a holy life and not loving his brother is no child of God’s.”

Notice if one sins he or she is a child of the devil, and the devil will not go to heaven with Jesus.

(Romans 8:1-4) “The reason, therefore, why those who are in Christ Jesus are not condemned, is that the law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and death. God has done what the Law, because of our unspiritual nature, was unable to do. God dealt with sin by sending his own Son in a body as physical as any sinful body, and in that body God condemned sin he did this in order the Law’s just demands might be satisfied in us, who behave not as our unspiritual nature but as the spirit dictates.”

It is God’s Work in man that gains one the kingdom of God.

lol.. A child of God is a child of God because they have been born (or begotten) by God via the death of Christ.

Not because they magically became sinless..

A child of God would not have to grow in christ, Increase his faith in christ, and have to go to an Abba Father if he was sinless. He would have already made it.

Now, why did you fail to mention the "two judgment" and what the differences were, was I wrong??

 

[Amellinialman]

There are rewards for the believer and condemation for the unbeliever at the Great White Throne. However, we need to keep in mind unbelievers are condemned already. The elect are saved already. The Kingdom is here already. The elect are alredy living in the Kingdom. Unbelievers are of the world. Jesus said His Kingdom is not of this world. His Kingdom is on earth as it is Heaven. The New Jerusalem will come down to a new earth
Yes, there will be two judgments. The second death will have no power over His elect.

 

[Johnlove]

lol.. A child of God is a child of God because they have been born (or begotten) by God via the death of Christ.

Not because they magically became sinless..

A child of God would not have to grow in christ, Increase his faith in christ, and have to go to an Abba Father if he was sinless. He would have already made it.

Now, why did you fail to mention the "two judgment" and what the differences were, was I wrong??

Scripture tells us who it is that is a Child of God, and your understanding of what is a Child of God is not scripture.

(1 John 3:9-10) “No one who has been begotten by God sins; because God’s seed remains inside him, he cannot sin when he has been begotten by God. In this way we distinguish the children of God from the children of the devil: anybody not living a holy life and not loving his brother is no child of God’s.”

Remember if you sin then you are of the devil, scripture says that is true. Nothing a devil says holds any truth. No one should ever take what a sinner says about God as truth.

Jesus told us what would judge those who did not keep his Words. You can make up your idea of how we will be judged, but Jesus’ told us how it will be done, and not you.

(John 12:47-48) “If anyone hears my words and does not keep them faithfully, it is not I who shall condemn him, since I have come not to condemn the world, but to save the world: he who rejects me and refuses my words has his judge already: the word itself that I have spoken will be his judge on the last day.”

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Scripture tells us who it is that is a Child of God, and your understanding of what is a Child of God is not scripture.

(1 John 3:9-10) “No one who has been begotten by God sins; because God’s seed remains inside him, he cannot sin when he has been begotten by God. In this way we distinguish the children of God from the children of the devil: anybody not living a holy life and not loving his brother is no child of God’s.”

Remember if you sin then you are of the devil, scripture says that is true. Nothing a devil says holds any truth. No one should ever take what a sinner says about God as truth.

Jesus told us what would judge those who did not keep his Words. You can make up your idea of how we will be judged, but Jesus’ told us how it will be done, and not you.

(John 12:47-48) “If anyone hears my words and does not keep them faithfully, it is not I who shall condemn him, since I have come not to condemn the world, but to save the world: he who rejects me and refuses my words has his judge already: the word itself that I have spoken will be his judge on the last day.”

1. Your mistranslation of John 3 is contraditory from what I see, John never said a child of God can not sin, he would be contradicting what he said in 1 John 1. In Chapter 3 is stating a fact, No one born of God habitually practices sin Or lives in sin Or lives like the sinner (the bible was not written in English, so you should be careful how you see things)

2. Jesus tells us how we will be judged, His children will be at a reward ceremony, The lost will be at a great white throne judgment, where they all will suffer the second death.

if I may ask, Which one would you rather be in? and why do you think you will be at that judgment vs the other?