layers in the unforgiving Debtor??

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Jun 1, 2016
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matthew 18:23-35....“Therefore, the kingdom of heaven is like a king who wanted to settle accounts with his servants. As he began the settlement, a man who owed him ten thousand bags of gold was brought to him. Since he was not able to pay, the master ordered that he and his wife and his children and all that he had be sold to repay the debt.
“At this the servant fell on his knees before him. ‘Be patient with me,’ he begged, ‘and I will pay back everything.The servant’s master took pity on him, canceled the debt and let him go.

we know this is a what the Kingdom is like parable, we see the great, unpayable debt ( the laws demand and lack of mercy)
we see the man cry for mercy.....



“But when that servant went out, he found one of his fellow servants who owed him a hundred silver coins He grabbed him and began to choke him. ‘Pay back what you owe me!’ he demanded.
“His fellow servant fell to his knees and begged him, ‘Be patient with me, and I will pay it back.’
“But he refused. Instead, he went off and had the man thrown into prison until he could pay the debt. When the other servants saw what had happened, they were outraged and went and told their master everything that had happened.

we see the man who is forgiven all His debts, go out and show no mercy to the man who owes Him a small debt. we see the Master Hear of this. we see the other servants witness and report ( angels?)


“Then the master called the servant in. ‘You wicked servant,’ he said, ‘I canceled all that debt of yours because you begged me to. Shouldn’t you have had mercy on your fellow servant just as I had on you?’ In anger his master handed him over to the jailers to be tortured, until he should pay back all he owed.

we see the anger and wrath of the Master, because of the servants actions after receiving the great cancellation of His debts because of mercy or ( grace)


“This is how my heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother or sister from your heart.”

we see the concluding summary sentence....


I have formerly thought of this regarding only forgiveness, it just occurred to me, this is the way of the kingdom. The first man was under law, had no way to pay and was going to lose all he had. He accepts Gods grace and is totally justified, debt cancelled all by Grace. He then goes out not thinking of What God has done for Him, but in His greed and hardened heart, has no mercy on the other man who begs Him. When God sees this He throws Him in prison to be tortured until he can pay the great debt, which he could not pay to begin with. God re instituted the mans debt, based on His behavior. and it is summed up with the clear statement. " this is how My Father will treat each of you, unless you forgive your brother from the heart."

forgiveness it is, but also a principle that Jesus uses continually in His teaching. God has been gracious cancelling our debt, what will He do now if we do not Give that same grace and forgive knowing all he forgave? is this not a picture of Gods Kingdom? He begins making it clear it is. it has nothing to do with law......this like all of Jesus teachings is seen in " I desire mercy, not sacrifice" the law is all based on sacrifice, sin offerings, fellowship offerings, atonement sacrifices ect.....Jesus teachings are all mercy......" I desire Mercy, not sacrifice" Jesus teachings replaced Law and made the Law Grace. Grace we receive and grace we are then required to give. to associate His teachings with law is absurd really.

He changed them " you have heard that it was said...but I tell you" just some thinking that came to mind, " by the measure you use, it will be measured to you" that's Jesus principle through out the gospels....that's Christian " law" any takers?


Just again some thoughts, take what you will. God bless and everything we do and say belongs a praise to God the Father, in the name and through the Loving company of Jesus Christ our Lord.


I ramble :) God bless you abundantly.
 
Feb 11, 2016
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#2
Ramble on bro its all good. :)

The first is definately a fogriven servant, not paying again what was extended to him (in mercy) and to me it is a picture of Judgment without mercy that hath shown no mercy.
 

notmyown

Senior Member
May 26, 2016
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#3
oh, i thought what Christ taught in the sermon on the mount was God's law. :confused:
 
Jun 1, 2016
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oh, i thought what Christ taught in the sermon on the mount was God's law. :confused:
yeah look at the principles behind the teachings, an eye for an eye becomes ? turn the other cheek. blessed are the merciful, for they will be shown mercy ect.... look at the "spirit" of the teachings. and look at the differences in what sin is in the law, and how Jesus teaches obedience in the heart, no adultery, becomes? do not lust. removing the roots of the issue eliminating the action. all of Jesus teachings , the teachings the principle he teaches or "sprit" of what He is teaching.

they aren't by the letter laws, for instance, don't pluck your eye out thinking it will stop lust, but rather the spirit of that says? remove the issue that's causing the lust to be there. ect....ect... That's only my thinking tho, I'm not preaching, just like to share thoughts that make sense to me, I believe its pretty true, but everyone has their own thoughts and that's coo :)


God bless and again for disclaimer purposes, don't pluck your eyeball haha
 
Jun 1, 2016
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Ramble on bro its all good. :)

The first is definately a fogriven servant, not paying again what was extended to him (in mercy) and to me it is a picture of Judgment without mercy that hath shown no mercy.

exactly how I see it you are just much more concise than I lol
 
Jun 1, 2016
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#6
exactly how I see it you are just much more concise than I lol
either way lol tells me BE MERCIFUL for God has been so much more merciful than I could ever make even, I owe that Master and wont be found "choking any fellow servants who owe me" then id have the whole "anger, and violence to deal with yikes...yeah ill be merciful always then.....I don't have to worry just rejoice that I'm debt free !
 
Nov 22, 2015
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#7
Jesus took the sin of the world away with His death on the cross. Everyone in the world has had sin forgiven but NOT everyone accepts this forgiveness that the blood of Jesus redeemed for us.

Peter and Paul showed this truth when they preached the true gospel as can be seen in Acts 10 and Acts 13. "That through His name the forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you that believe."

IMO The parable in Matthew 18 is talking about a non-believer in Christ that has had his sin forgiven by God but he does not forgive others. Jesus spoke this parable to expose sin and to elevate the law so that people would realize their need for a Savior.

To say that God will NOT forgive unless we forgive is to deny the blood of Jesus. Every person that comes to Christ does not need to forgive others before they come to Christ.

We always need to interpret scripture through the lens of the finished work of Christ.

Matt 18:35 says that God will not forgive unless you forgive from your heart.

This was Jesus giving them the law. Moses 2.0 as it shows their need for a Savior in order for Jesus to create in them a new heart that loves and forgives just like their Father does in Jesus.

Love always forgives - it's in our nature now because we are in Christ - created in righteousness and holiness.

We have a new heart now
- so we can't really have unforgiveness in our hearts anymore which is why Jesus said .."If you do not forgive from your heart" ....this is to expose their need for a new heart which always forgives.

Acts 15:8-9 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] "And God, who knows the heart, testified to them giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He also did to us;

[SUP]9 [/SUP] and He made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith.

We love now from our new hearts in Christ and our hearts cannot sin. So Jesus's verse above in Matthew 18 would not apply to the person in Christ as it is impossible for them to have sin in their heart and to not forgive. We have the very nature of God inside us now - righteousness and holiness.

Romans 5:5 (NASB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] and hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out within our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.

1 John 5:18 (NASB)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] We know that no one who is born of God sins; but He who was born of God keeps him, and the evil one does not touch him.

1 John 3:9 (KJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
 
Jun 1, 2016
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#8
It is GOD's law.
I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. And it shall come to pass, [that] whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will take vengeance on him. Deuteronomy 18:18-19

The one who rejects me and does not accept my words has one who judges him; the word that I have spoken will judge him on the last day. For I have not spoken from myself, but the Father himself who sent me has commanded me what I should say and what I should speak. John 12:48-49

Amen, and Had the man just shown mercy, He was free and clear !
 
Jun 1, 2016
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#9
so...what do you make of this parable Bruce? honest question not asking for doctrine just your own thoughts of the parable?
 

notmyown

Senior Member
May 26, 2016
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#10
yeah look at the principles behind the teachings, an eye for an eye becomes ? turn the other cheek. blessed are the merciful, for they will be shown mercy ect.... look at the "spirit" of the teachings. and look at the differences in what sin is in the law, and how Jesus teaches obedience in the heart, no adultery, becomes? do not lust. removing the roots of the issue eliminating the action. all of Jesus teachings , the teachings the principle he teaches or "sprit" of what He is teaching.

they aren't by the letter laws, for instance, don't pluck your eye out thinking it will stop lust, but rather the spirit of that says? remove the issue that's causing the lust to be there. ect....ect... That's only my thinking tho, I'm not preaching, just like to share thoughts that make sense to me, I believe its pretty true, but everyone has their own thoughts and that's coo :)


God bless and again for disclaimer purposes, don't pluck your eyeball haha
lol no worries about the eyeball :)

agreed. what Christ was saying is something like this:

Do we then overthrow the law by this faith? By no means! On the contrary, we uphold the law. (Rom 3:31)


we don't lower the standards of God's Law to the point of our own performance.
and oh, yes, there was always mercy and grace in God's Law! :)

 
Jun 1, 2016
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#11
lol nevermind I see, so you don't think its about Gods Kindom? and the one forgiven, then not forgiving? cuz He is totally forgiven and that only happens by accepting Jesus. BUT then He doesn't forgive the other guy...amd THEN hes tossed in for the torture.

But thanks for participating, and lets you and I try more fellowship type stuff and less doctrine haha its best for all :)
 
Jun 1, 2016
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#12
lol no worries about the eyeball :)

agreed. what Christ was saying is something like this:

Do we then overthrow the law by this faith? By no means! On the contrary, we uphold the law. (Rom 3:31)


we don't lower the standards of God's Law to the point of our own performance.
and oh, yes, there was always mercy and grace in God's Law! :)

yes amen indeed, and theres perfect provision for grace and forgiveness in the teachings themselves , good stuff it is. perfected or "fulfilled" Law
 
Jun 1, 2016
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#13
lol no worries about the eyeball :)

agreed. what Christ was saying is something like this:

Do we then overthrow the law by this faith? By no means! On the contrary, we uphold the law. (Rom 3:31)


we don't lower the standards of God's Law to the point of our own performance.
and oh, yes, there was always mercy and grace in God's Law! :)

and hahaha eyeballs are critical lol only to shots at eliminating lust that way lol :) funny stuff and great thought thanks for that one
 

notmyown

Senior Member
May 26, 2016
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#14
yes amen indeed, and theres perfect provision for grace and forgiveness in the teachings themselves , good stuff it is. perfected or "fulfilled" Law
indeed, the Lord Jesus met all the righteous demands of the Law for us.

thank God. :)
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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#15
yeah look at the principles behind the teachings, an eye for an eye becomes ? turn the other cheek. blessed are the merciful, for they will be shown mercy ect.... look at the "spirit" of the teachings. and look at the differences in what sin is in the law, and how Jesus teaches obedience in the heart, no adultery, becomes? do not lust. removing the roots of the issue eliminating the action. all of Jesus teachings , the teachings the principle he teaches or "sprit" of what He is teaching.

they aren't by the letter laws, for instance, don't pluck your eye out thinking it will stop lust, but rather the spirit of that says? remove the issue that's causing the lust to be there. ect....ect... That's only my thinking tho, I'm not preaching, just like to share thoughts that make sense to me, I believe its pretty true, but everyone has their own thoughts and that's coo :)


God bless and again for disclaimer purposes, don't pluck your eyeball haha
There's no reason to spiritualize the sermon on the mount. Take it literally, else one can make it mean anything they want to. Jesus is not teaching spiritual lessons here, He's teaching doctrine to the Jews as pertaining to His earthly kingdom promised to the nation of Israel. There is a certain manner of living in that economy when Jesus Christ is King of Kings on the earth, ruling and reigning on the throne of David.
 
Jun 1, 2016
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#16
indeed, the Lord Jesus met all the righteous demands of the Law for us.

thank God. :)
amen for sure, and whats great is this . He says so many blessings come with it, just like the old laws obedience brings blessing, in Christ we have this promise " whoever keeps my commands, he is the one who loves me, and He may ask anything in my name and I will do it"! and its His will and time, But our Father DELIGHTS in giving amazing gifts !!! blessings come through obedience and for the good of all who have need!
 
Jun 1, 2016
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#17
There's no reason to spiritualize the sermon on the mount. Take it literally, else one can make it mean anything they want to. Jesus is not teaching spiritual lessons here, He's teaching doctrine to the Jews as pertaining to His earthly kingdom promised to the nation of Israel. There is a certain manner of living in that economy when Jesus Christ is King of Kings on the earth, ruling and reigning on the throne of David.

naw, its not literal at all ( in my belief) plucking an eye out doesn't mean you cant lust, and consider " the father desires those who worship in spirit and truth. literal doesn't apply to every situation, the spirit of what hes teaching works any and everywhere, and truthfully, that's how the" holy spirit" becomes in close contact with us, the spirit found in Jesus teachings. by applying those things the spirit gains our thoughts wich then become natural actions. truth ( as I personally have learned and will stick to) not a challenge of doctrines or anything. but if you think its literal more power to ya, but you may end up maimed is you happen to stumble lol just kiddn God bless
 
Jun 1, 2016
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#18
There's no reason to spiritualize the sermon on the mount. Take it literally, else one can make it mean anything they want to. Jesus is not teaching spiritual lessons here, He's teaching doctrine to the Jews as pertaining to His earthly kingdom promised to the nation of Israel. There is a certain manner of living in that economy when Jesus Christ is King of Kings on the earth, ruling and reigning on the throne of David.
also with prayer and the spirit, taking it spiritually will interpret it, remember were working by the spirit in us through Jesus and faith in Him. and not on our own understanding. justanother thought, thanks for adding to the thread God Bless and He is good to folks like us !
 

notmyown

Senior Member
May 26, 2016
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#19
amen for sure, and whats great is this . He says so many blessings come with it, just like the old laws obedience brings blessing, in Christ we have this promise " whoever keeps my commands, he is the one who loves me, and He may ask anything in my name and I will do it"! and its His will and time, But our Father DELIGHTS in giving amazing gifts !!! blessings come through obedience and for the good of all who have need!
:eek: i'm actually unsure on this point.

is it my obedience that merits blessing, or Christ's obedience on my behalf?

after all, my obedience is just my due service.

but our Father is a good and faithful Father. this thought is mind blowing (and i apologize for derailing your thread!)

The LORD your God is in your midst,
A victorious warrior.
He will exult over you with joy,
He will be quiet in His love,
He will rejoice over you with shouts of joy. (Zeph 3:17)

whaaat?? haha!


 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
16,794
3,573
113
#20
naw, its not literal at all ( in my belief) plucking an eye out doesn't mean you cant lust, and consider " the father desires those who worship in spirit and truth. literal doesn't apply to every situation, the spirit of what hes teaching works any and everywhere, and truthfully, that's how the" holy spirit" becomes in close contact with us, the spirit found in Jesus teachings. by applying those things the spirit gains our thoughts wich then become natural actions. truth ( as I personally have learned and will stick to) not a challenge of doctrines or anything. but if you think its literal more power to ya, but you may end up maimed is you happen to stumble lol just kiddn God bless
That's a dangerous road to go down. I believe Jesus meant what He said and said what He meant. We have to let the Bible be as honest to us as possible, take it literally unless it tells you not to.

1. Under the law - eye for an eye
2. Kingdom of Heaven - turn the other cheek (Christ is ruling with a rod of iron, he'll take care of the wrong doer)
3. Church Age - if at all possible, live peaceably with one another (turn the other cheek if that restores peace, if not, do what you can do to restore peace, self defense)

No reason to spritualize any of these, for they are doctrine taught by the Lord in different dispensations as circumstances change.