Whats the deal with Catholics?

[KenAllan]

Every time you pray the Hail Mary you are Praying to Mary as your god.

Do you not know Nikki84 that that which you pray to is your god?

If you pray to a tree, that tree is your god. If you pray to the moon, the moon is your god. To pray to Mary makes Mary your god.

Why is it so hard for Catholics to understand that praying to Mary is a Mortal sin? A sin that will keep Catholics from entering into Heaven.

When we say the Lord's Prayer we begin by saying Our Father. We are addressing God, we are Praying to God. In the Hail Mary we begin by saying Hail Mary. We are addressing Mary, therefore we ARE praying to Mary every time we say the Hail Mary.

Exodus 20:3
[SUP]3 [/SUP]“You shall have no other gods before Me."

Its a Mortal sin you are doing every time you say the Hail Mary!

 

[Nikki84]

Every time you pray the Hail Mary you are Praying to Mary as your god.

Do you not know Nikki84 that that which you pray to is your god?

If you pray to a tree, that tree is your god. If you pray to the moon, the moon is your god. To pray to Mary makes Mary your god.

Why is it so hard for Catholics to understand that praying to Mary is a Mortal sin? A sin that will keep Catholics from entering into Heaven.

When we say the Lord's Prayer we begin by saying Our Father. We are addressing God, we are Praying to God. In the Hail Mary we begin by saying Hail Mary. We are addressing Mary, therefore we ARE praying to Mary every time we say the Hail Mary.

Exodus 20:3
[SUP]3 [/SUP]“You shall have no other gods before Me."

Its a Mortal sin you are doing every time you say the Hail Mary!

So you really don't know who a person is praying to by watching them. According to you if I kneel by my bed to pray, I'm praying to my bed. Outrageous

 

[KenAllan]

No.

his is a typical response from the Catholic Church. Their answer to them praying to Mary is to invoke an image of praying to a bed. Talk about being brainwashed!

Do you ever think for yourself?

When you have a Rosary in you hand before a statue or picture of Mary and you are reciting the Hail Mary i can know for a fact you are Praying to Mary as your God!

If you are in the pew after confession and you are saying the Hail Mary 50 times because the Priest told you to, i can know for a fact you ARE Worshiping Mary as your god!

You are committing a Mortal sin every time you say the Hail Mary! This sin God cannot forgive you for because you see nothing wrong with praying to Mary and therefore will never ask God to forgive you for it. This is why this sin will cast you into the Lake of Fire.

 

[jb]

The issues with them are very extreme...

There is just as much error in the Protestant church as in the Roman Catholic church, so picking it out and slagging it off really shows up a bias against it!

I know many Roman Catholics who are lovely Christ like Christian, washed in the blood of the Lord Jesus and born again, even as I know many Protestants with the same experience, they are both my brothers and sisters in Christ!

 

[Nikki84]

There is just as much error in the Protestant church as in the Roman Catholic church, so picking it out and slagging it off really shows up a bias against it!

I know many Roman Catholics who are lovely Christ like Christian, washed in the blood of the Lord Jesus and born again, even as I know many Protestants with the same experience, they are both my brothers and sisters in Christ!

I completely agree.

 

[blue_ladybug]

So you really don't know who a person is praying to by watching them. According to you if I kneel by my bed to pray, I'm praying to my bed. Outrageous

If you pray "Dear bed", then yes, you're praying to it. Catholics pray to Mary all the time in the mistaken belief that she is an intermediary to Jesus. She isn't. Mary cannot hear, nor answer, nor mediate prayers. JESUS is our one and only mediator.

 

[crossnote]

I think God wants his children to be united in one Church, rather than "stabbing" each other

With Christ as the Head, not the Pope right?

 

[jaybird88]

I was just on a forum and Catholosisim came up. I got nothing against people who are catholic but I don't consider them to be Christian either. I here there are quite a few differences between them and a Christian church. My friends Catholic and I'm trying to convince him to convert. But he's in the mindset once a Catholic always a Catholic. Or are the differences minor and nothing to worry about? Most people seem to think so.

IMO Catholics are not the problem, its their corrupt leaders. i have sad news for you, there are corrupt leaders in the non Catholic faiths as well. telling your friend to leave one to join another is not going to solve anything. He should have His faith in what Jesus taught, not faith in church denominations.

 

[crossnote]

Going to the root of the issue.
Our authority on Divine truth is derived from Scriptures alone. This is what Jesus taught.
Roman Catholics appeal to the Fathers, Councils, Tradition and the Pope.

Let it be a warning to Evangelicals who act as if Scripture is insufficient.

And he said to them, "You have a fine way of rejecting the commandment of God in order to establish your tradition!
(Mar 7:9)

These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
(Act 17:11)

All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.
(2Ti 3:16-17)

 

[Bestil_Andno]

I grew up in the Roman Catholic church and I've already heard these arguments from Catholic Answers. Catholics can always seem to find a way to explain away anything.

Here is a link for you to check out. - Just for Catholics: Answers

That's cool, mailmandan. I understand.

Although, everytime somebody has a counter argument to something that is asserted, I don't think it can always be filed under "explaining things away".

No thanks on the link. I've already seen that site and interacted via email with Dr. Mizzi several times.

That site is chock-full of errors, misinformation, and misrepresentations of the Catholic Church.

BTW, love your Sienfeld mailman icon! Sienfeld always was good for a laugh!!

God bless.

 

[Bestil_Andno]

1 Timothy 2:5-6
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Yea and amen, Grace. The Catholic Church agrees completely.

Acts 4:12
Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

Yea and amen again.

God bless.

 

[Bestil_Andno]

I have many in my church that used to be Catholic. They can see the truth if they have the right heart. I think Catholicism is the easiest false doctrine to disprove, there are so many scriptures against what they teach and practice.

Hi Trail.

If you'd like, I'd be willing to discuss one with you as best I can. Keep in mind I am just an average Catholic so I may not know everything. But I'd be willing to dialogue with you if you wish.

If not, that's cool.

God bless.

 

[Bestil_Andno]

We all need to understand that the Catholic Church is great at deceiving people into following what they teach as being the only Truth.

People are no more "deceived" in the Catholic Church than they are in any other church. Seriously, I am probably just like you. I've even heard some people claim things like "the LDS are brain-washed" etc. (note to LDS friends: I am not saying that, I've heard someone else say it.) People are not deceived and brain-washed. I think we are all probably very similar. We may read and think and study and come to conclusions. Some people probably read and think and study way more than others, some my do so very little. But people think. I don't agree that people are deceived or brain-washed.

Take Romans 3:23 that we've already discussed. Your interpretation is different than mine. That doesn't mean either one of us is deceived. One or both of us might be wrong, but I wouldn't say that we are deceived because we've both thought about it and reached a conclusion.

First the Catholics do not believe the word "all" means everything. They believe the word "all" means only a few things, a couple of things, but does not mean everything.

Hey Mike.

So if "all" means "all"...can you please describe to me what sortof sin a 2 year old toddler is capable of committing? After all, you are saying "all" means "all without any exceptions" right? And there are millions of toddlers on the planet right now.

This is how they try to defend their right to Worship Mary as their god.

Straw man. Nobody worships Mary.

Do you really think Bestil_Andno that God does not know what you are doing?

Of course not. Of course He knows what I am doing....always.

Be careful because you just may find yourself swimming in the Lake of Fire instead of being in Heaven with me.

I hope to see you in Heaven.

God bless.

 

[mailmandan]

That's cool, mailmandan. I understand.

Although, everytime somebody has a counter argument to something that is asserted, I don't think it can always be filed under "explaining things away".

No thanks on the link. I've already seen that site and interacted via email with Dr. Mizzi several times.

That site is chock-full of errors, misinformation, and misrepresentations of the Catholic Church.

BTW, love your Sienfeld mailman icon! Sienfeld always was good for a laugh!!

God bless.

That site is chock-full of errors, misinformation, and misrepresentations of the Catholic Church or you have just been taught differently than the information Joe Mizzi has presented? Joe is a former Roman Catholic. I hear Catholics say they are misrepresented a lot. Please name a few misrepresentations about the Catholic Church that you believe are the most critical.

BTY, I fell in love with that Seinfeld meme the first time I saw it and just had to make it my avatar! lol

God bless you

 

[Bestil_Andno]

easy when the Bible is the only sure standard of truth,

Hi TMS,

Do you remember when the Bible first was codified?

but they teach that God speaks through them,

Jesus sends out the leaders of His Church in Luke 10:16: "He who hears you hears me, he who rejects you, rejects me..."
Jesus gave His authority to them. To reject them was to reject Him.

Is there anybody in any non-Catholic Christian church that holds or even claims to hold this authority? If yes, who? If no, what happened? Does this verse just get ignored?

Also, Matthew 28:19-20: "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations.....teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you."

Again, Jesus sends men out with His authority.

both of these verses show God (Jesus) speaking through men because that is the way Jesus set it up,

hat they are Gods church on Earth,

Jesus did build His Church. That is one of the things He did : ..."I will build My Church.." (Matt. 16:18) And He did that in the 1st century. How many churches can claim to have existed since the first century?

so The Word becomes less important and their traditions are very important.

I disagree and when was the Bible codified again?

God bless.

 

[Bestil_Andno]

Every time you pray the Hail Mary you are Praying to Mary as your god.

Do you not know Nikki84 that that which you pray to is your god?

If you pray to a tree, that tree is your god. If you pray to the moon, the moon is your god. To pray to Mary makes Mary your god.

Why is it so hard for Catholics to understand that praying to Mary is a Mortal sin? A sin that will keep Catholics from entering into Heaven.

When we say the Lord's Prayer we begin by saying Our Father. We are addressing God, we are Praying to God. In the Hail Mary we begin by saying Hail Mary. We are addressing Mary, therefore we ARE praying to Mary every time we say the Hail Mary.

Exodus 20:3
[SUP]3 [/SUP]“You shall have no other gods before Me."

Its a Mortal sin you are doing every time you say the Hail Mary!

Hi Ken.

Ok. So you have touched on a fundamental difference between Catholics and non-Catholics.

I think, correct me if I am wrong, that in a non-Catholic mindset...all prayer is worship.

In a Catholic mind-set, prayer can be worship, or it can just be communication.

I'll try to be brief but here is how we look at it:

1. Christians are united to each other through Christ as His Body, (1 Cor. 12:25+)
2. Christ only has one body...not many. (Col. 1:24)
3. Christians are not separated from Christ and therefore not from His Body by death (Romans 8:35+)
4. Christians are commanded to pray for one another (1 Tim. 2:1-4 and elsewhere)
5. Nowhere does the Bible say that Christians are released from that command to pray for each other at death or any other time.
6. So just like I can ask somebody to pray for me today (and they probably would), I can ask somebody to pray for me tomorrow even if they have passed away. If they died in relationship with God they are still connected to the Body of Christ.

Asking Mary (or any other saint) to pray for us (as we do in the Hail Mary) is just like asking someone to pray for us if they were here on earth. It doesn't deify Mary or the saints. It is just asking one member of the Body of Christ to pray for another. There is no worship involved, no deification involved, so there is no sin involved and certainly no worship.

We don't believe death disconnects a Christian from the Body of Christ. But it seems to be that that is what you are assuming. Paul warns against doing that:

"The eye (one part of the Body of Christ) cannot say to the hand (another part of the Body of Christ) I don't need you..." (1 Cor. 12:21)

It seems like non-Catholics are saying to the saints..."I don't need you." Sortof out of sight, out of mind.

I understand that you won't agree with all that. But that is sortof a brief sketch of Catholic thinking on it.

God bless.

 

[Bestil_Andno]

When you have a Rosary in you hand before a statue or picture of Mary and you are reciting the Hail Mary i can know for a fact you are Praying to Mary as your God!

False.

If what you are saying is true, then by the exact same logic if we see someone holding a Bible in their hands, maybe head bowed in prayer, we can know for a fact that they are committing bibliolatry and praying to the Bible as their God!

Your logic just doesn't work. In order to know what a person's intentions are with prayer....we would have to know their hearts. Only God can know that. You cannot know that by watching what someone does outwardly. Not without claiming omniscience.

If you are in the pew after confession and you are saying the Hail Mary 50 times because the Priest told you to, i can know for a fact you ARE Worshiping Mary as your god!

Only if you are omniscient and know the person's heart....which you aren't, so you don't.

All prayer isn't worship to Catholics. I think it is to you. There's the difference.

Prayer to Catholics can be worship when offered to God as such, but it can also just be asking a fellow Christian to pray for us (as it is in the case with Mary).

I don't see anything wrong with asking another Christian to pray for us.

God Bless.

 

[crossnote]

Prayer to Catholics can be worship when offered to God as such, but it can also just be asking a fellow Christian to pray for us (as it is in the case with Mary).

I don't see anything wrong with asking another Christian to pray for us.

God Bless.

Bestil
How would you know Mary hears you?
Is she omnipresent where she can hear ALL the prayers coming at her at the same time from millions of catholics?
This would take a God-like attribute to perform.

Also where in Scripture do you have a promise that we can ask petitions to those who have gone on before us?

 

[Demi777]

There is just as much error in the Protestant church as in the Roman Catholic church, so picking it out and slagging it off really shows up a bias against it!

I know many Roman Catholics who are lovely Christ like Christian, washed in the blood of the Lord Jesus and born again, even as I know many Protestants with the same experience, they are both my brothers and sisters in Christ!

Do you always pick out parts of peoples posts to justify yourself? Ive said more than this but I guess that doesnt matter huh?

 

[Bestil_Andno]

If you pray "Dear bed", then yes, you're praying to it. Catholics pray to Mary all the time in the mistaken belief that she is an intermediary to Jesus. She isn't. Mary cannot hear, nor answer, nor mediate prayers. JESUS is our one and only mediator.

Hi blue,

Yes Jesus is our one mediator. But where does it say "only"? I don't think I'm familiar with where that is at. Just curious.

Also, how do you know Mary cannot hear our prayers?

Also, Jesus is our one mediator as in "primary" not as in "sole" or "one and only".

We know this for a fact because we know for a fact that we have at least 2 mediators: "...but the Spirit Himself intercedes for us with sighs too deep for words." (Romans 8:26)

Any Trinitarian Christian will have to admit that we have at least two people mediating for us since the Holy Spirit and Christ are two separate people.

Also, Jesus shares much of His roles with us. One of them is as mini-mediators. We do that every time we share the Gospel with someone. We do that every time we pray for someone. And we are told to do that and that that is "good and pleasing" to God when we do:

"First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all men....This is good, and it is acceptable in the sight of God...."(1 Tim. 2:1-4)

Christ's mediatorship is above all others. Without His...forget about it. He bridges the distance between God and man. However, He shares that role with us and allows us to be mini-mediators with Him. That's what Christians are called to do for each other. That's why Paul says he is praying for others and asks their prayer for him all over the place in the New Testament. And that is why all Christians, whether part of the Body on earth or part of the body in Heaven (like Mary) can pray for each other.

God bless.