Who are the friends or enemies of the Living God?

[Grace777x70]

Nothing passed me by, PJ.

You, as you customarily do, misrepresented what you view as contradictory positions. Unfortunately it takes much more time and effort to try to undo a tangled up mess, which is what most of your posts are, theologically.

It would also take effort on your part to respond to our attempts to engage you, which is why we wonder if you ever actually read our posts, instead of pumping out your verbose and misconstrued posts, nearly always devoid of contextual Scripture, that fly past our posts without ever addressing accurately what we do post.

Until you choose to converse with us rather than at us, choosing also to actually read what we write, these fruitless circles will continue.

While the hope is that you may actually take in some of what we write, the primary purpose that many of us engage you at all is for the readers who are trying to sort these issues out.

And I'm content to let God and the reader judge between us .

-JGIG

I agree....and it is particularly frustrating to tell someone the exact same thing over 30x times and they continually say the exact opposite of what you told them. In some cases people here have told others over 100x times the same thing and they still say the opposite.

So, something is happening - either they are blinded by what is being said or they are just being totally dis-honest. Either way - there is no way to have a meaningful discussion.

There can be no discussion with this type of a mindset. It's like they have erected a straw-man in their minds and then proceed to tear down this straw-man and the reality is - it doesn't even exist in real life.

Others at least can say - well..I just disagree with that and that is fine. This type of a mind set at least you can have a discussion and still remain in unity as a believer together in Christ.

 

[PeterJens]

I'm 100% sure you can't provide one iota of evidence that I have labeled hyper grace as witchcraft, or it's followers as practitioners of such.

Furthermore, calling a doctrine heresy and gnosticism is not the same thing as calling people heretics and gnostics. I strive to avoid the latter, and assert my right and freedom to label hyper grace doctrine as I see it - neo-gnosticism, i.e. a modern formulation of the gnostic heresy.

If you have a problem with my view and opinion of the doctrine you follow, that is your problem.

There is a funny thing here. A few days ago grace7x77 said talking against hyper-grace was like witch-craft, and implied we were partaking in witch-craft.

A few days later in peoples minds this has become we are accusing them of this. It shows how the spiritual forces at work easily manipulate and distort their thinking. I mean though they believe they can be possessed by evil spirits while they still have the Holy Spirit it could not be happening to them. This is where I just say, they are just nuts.

 

[JGIG]

Willie - I know you will not understand my position. As over the months is obvious, we see the world very differently.
The downside to making statements, is ones detractors will always find reason to get offended, upset. Jesus said simply, they got upset at me, they will get upset at you.

And yes it is difficult to see because often the real reasons for this upsetness is hidden, and hypocritical.
When Jesus called the rulers and law keepers liars and children of their father, it was pretty plain.

It is coming close to this position now. But if that is the reality of where people stand, so that is how things will be.

I remember talking to the nutcase muslims. I thought through discussion of love, they would soften their hearts and become more real. The opposite became true. They got more and more upset and violent, and if I saw them face to face they would have killed me.

I do not think this particular interaction is any different. It seems the attitudes just harden, and condemnation increases even though the content of the conversation is the same. The loyalties and emotional respect is what is often getting upset, but when this is founded on heresy and self indulgence, it is never going to be an different. Sinners hate admitting sin, and pandering to preachers who complement consumerism and self interest and dreams of wealth and prosperity, while asking for donations to receive blessing, it is just a greed fest.

I made the mistake of walking in like a lamb to the slaughter, but then that is what I am called to do, so amen, let it be.

. . . and here comes the victim card.

Poor little lamb to the slaughter . . . called by God to martyrdom . . .

​

In reality, you are an instigator and sower of discord in the Body:

" . . . but when this is founded on heresy and self indulgence, it is never going to be an different. Sinners hate admitting sin, and pandering to preachers who complement consumerism and self interest and dreams of wealth and prosperity, while asking for donations to receive blessing, it is just a greed fest." -PeterJens​

WHO are you talking to? No one here.

But I'm sure no one notices . . .

 

[Grace777x70]

I'm 100% sure you can't provide one iota of evidence that I have labeled hyper grace as witchcraft, or it's followers as practitioners of such.

Furthermore, calling a doctrine heresy and gnosticism is not the same thing as calling people heretics and gnostics. I strive to avoid the latter, and assert my right and freedom to label hyper grace doctrine as I see it - neo-gnosticism, i.e. a modern formulation of the gnostic heresy.

If you have a problem with my view and opinion of the doctrine you follow, that is your problem.

I have to step in here in your defense. You have gotten much better then you were originally when we first encountered you. We were called many names at the start but you have cleaned it up a lot lately. Thank you!

None of us have been exactly without fault in our delivery of what we believed either so it's not just you that I am talking about.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

I have to step in here in your defense. You have gotten much better then you were originally when we first encountered you. We were called many names at the start but you have cleaned it up a lot lately. Thank you!

None of us have been exactly without fault in our delivery of what we believed either so it's not just you that I am talking about.

Thank you. I've learned from my mistakes.

 

[PeterJens]

Nothing passed me by, PJ.

You have mistaken me for someone you think you know.
I refute we follow the same faith.

I have read your posts on JGIG. I have much sympathy with your compromises.
But you are either for love and victory over sin and death through righteousness and purity or you are not.

The end of discussions come down to essential points of faith. You will find them included in future in faith declarations of church and those who compromise to the degree the hyper-grace do can form their own assemblies.

I have no problem with that. But expecting respect or acknowledgement from me. Not a hope.
To me you guys are unbelievers. The progress is simple. I am open and encouraging, but when the fundamentals are called not part of your gospel, that is the end of discussions.

I am happy to talk to you on this basis, but it makes a lot more sense to me.
You can redefine everything you want it does not matter to me, because you have no interest in my position or following Jesus in the traditional sense.

 

[PeterJens]

. . . and here comes the victim card.

Poor little lamb to the slaughter . . . called by God to martyrdom . . .

View attachment 152675
​

In reality, you are an instigator and sower of discord in the Body:

" . . . but when this is founded on heresy and self indulgence, it is never going to be an different. Sinners hate admitting sin, and pandering to preachers who complement consumerism and self interest and dreams of wealth and prosperity, while asking for donations to receive blessing, it is just a greed fest." -PeterJens​

WHO are you talking to? No one here.

But I'm sure no one notices . . .

The joke is on you, you noticed. See the irony.

 

[PeterJens]

The joke is discord is being stirred up by me.

Do you think Jesus righteousness and judgement do not stir up discord.

If the preaching of the gospel does not cause discord, it is not being preached from the Lord.

The only place preaching will not cause discord is in heaven, to the redeemed people of Christ.

Maybe you never learnt this is Sunday school. Maybe you were asleep at the back.

 

[BeyondET]

Dare to love your enemies

[video=youtube;OLg08lOPSUo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLg08lOPSUo[/video]

 

[JGIG]

Originally Posted by PeterJens

Do you see that scripture supports a theology that talks about evidence, fruit, effect of faith?
Once you remove this concept out of thinking, there is no difference between the world and people of the Kingdom other than faith.

This is like saying sin means nothing. Now to accept this is to deny the cross, or holiness. So the fruit of righteousness and purity with faith acting as imputed righteousness is a core solution.

If you exclude conviction of sin from the Holy Spirit or your conscience one makes it all meaningless. Maybe you are unaware of this, and how it makes following Jesus just about singing choruses and feeling good about yourself. I know that is not gospel and a sick joke.

ok, so I say it is not my place to judge someone else's standing with God, including you, and you want to argue with that??? wow, just wow.

Yep. And then he'd chastise you if you went for the bait. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

But I'm sure no one notices . . .

-JGIG

 

[oldethennew]

The joke is discord is being stirred up by me.

Do you think Jesus righteousness and judgement do not stir up discord.

If the preaching of the gospel does not cause discord, it is not being preached from the Lord.

The only place preaching will not cause discord is in heaven, to the redeemed people of Christ.

Maybe you never learnt this is Sunday school. Maybe you were asleep at the back.

========================================================

brother PJ,

I find what I have 'blackened', in-appropriate, as many of us have missed relevant messages
in SS, and have also been caught sleeping in one form or another when we should have been
paying attention...a universal 'guilt', so to speak, yet something that our Father has surely
forgiven us for...

I find this kind of 'digging back' at others something that our Saviour didn't participate in,
He never railed, He never defended Himself in any situation, for He only spoke the Truth,
for He was doing His Father's will and not His own, and so He teaches us to do the same
if we respect His wishes...after all, we are His 'workmanship-in-progress'...
as we mature in Christ, we must find that we never have a need to defend ourselves from any
kind of mis-understanding of our positions or our Love for our Saviour...it's just NOT His way...

it's a LOOOOOGGGG step, stepping out of one's own will and desires - and achieving the victory
of always being in God's Will...the 'old-man' has to die daily and completely, else one foot remains
in the world, while the other attempts to be in the body of Christ....but many of us have found that
STRADDLING the fence is an abomination to our Father, and He won't tolerate it...
better to be 'hot or cold' that 'luke-warm'....

for ourselves, we have been shown that Christ's Love covers all vain conversations, and that there
is absolutely no power in 'worldly-words', if the Spirit of Christ dwells within us...

 

[eternally-gratefull]

EG you are old enough to know better.
These are simple one liners. They are summaries touching of teaching points raised by hyper-grace teachers.

Peter you should no better, No they are not, Thats what you THINK they teach, It is not what they teach.. You can say until your blue in the face this is what they believe, it will not make it true.

Now you claimed I am lying, you just proved I was not, and I know hyper-grace ideas. This is not a detailed theological forum with phd research articles for pier review. My post emphasised that on conviction of sin by the holy Spirit and conscience I said many now agree this is part of Gods work. This makes things confusing because there was a whole trend towards only positive thought is right.

I do not know where you got the ideas that people believe in that stuff, But it certainly was not from God, and the very people you accuse have explained to you they do not believe many of those things, and told you what they really believed.

Now if you were sensible, you would admit some hold these positions or versions of them.

See, this proves you did not read what I said, because I said this very thing, If you were reading what I post with honesty you would know this, and not continue to make such mistakes.

I hold to versions of them, the bible teaches them,, And I admitted that many of us hold to versions of them.. Why did you miss that?

in fact, here is what I said.

Originally Posted by eternally-gratefull

for many of this so called list. This is believed by all faith believers, Whther you want to call them hyper grace or whatever.

Now I do not know which of these you hold to, but that is not the point. This is a fair representation of the issues.

if one point is off, its not fair, and here you have many points off.

Lets be serious Peter. If I said you believed stuff, and that many points were off, and I claimed it was a fair representation. You would be calling me a slanderer and a liar, and probably many other things..

and you would be right in doing so And if you corrected my thinking, and I did not respond with an apology, and admit, I was wrong in what I said, then you would be correct in calling me a slanderer..

But you want to deny and lie about it.

Who lied? You said I never admitted it, So who lied?

You have no standing or integrity. So please stop showing your ignorance, arrogance and bully tactics. Your supporters only support you because they cannot defend the indefensible like you do, because you need to have a distorted disposition to carry on.

Yeah, And your a perfect angel. You just attacked me and many other people. But that means nothing to you, You attacked based on false precepts. lies, and pride, because you refuse to admit YOU MAY BE WRONG. (which you are)

Thanks for proving your ignorance of the obvious. I wonder what will stop you tirades? Maybe you are just a tool the Lord wants to bring out to make a spectical of hyper-grace, because you are 100% succeeding.

Thats ok, I know satan wants to use you to try to destroy a grace based gospel. But he will not win, Because you will be confronted by many people until you admit your lies against them are that lies. Or continue with your lies, your attacks, and your false accusations, and maybe something will finally be done about it.

 

[JGIG]

I was quoting what you said about me; I did not say that you justify your sins.

You are welcome to your views about what I believe. You may be ignorant, but I don't accuse you of being an false accuser for being ignorant.

Again, having a concubine or even multiple wives was not adultery. That's just a fact. Adultery is being joined to a woman who is already joined to another man.

Regarding Abraham, I'll repeat from my earlier post on this matter: Having a concubine may not be adultery, but having sex with her in order to have a child because he chose his act over God's promise was a sin. That act was a lapse in Abraham's faith, and what is not of faith, is sin (see Romans 14:23).

Regarding your view of adultery ("adultery is being joined to a woman who is already joined to another man"):

• So it's not adultery if a man is joined to a woman who is not joined to another man? What if he's married? Is is still not adultery?

And about having multiple wives not being adultery . . . so polygamy would not be a sin, but polyandry would be a sin?

Your theology is getting curiouser and curiouser . . .





-JGIG

 

[eternally-gratefull]

This is simply not true.

Prove it,, SHow me from the peoples own words where they believe these things.

I have seen comments made from accusers, But i have never seen a person say they teach those things, so oh wise man, put your money where you mouth is, Show a person who teaches hypergrace where they teach all of those things which we are discussing according to the list Peter put up, and I highlighted.

I look forward to your reply.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

In reality, you are an instigator and sower of discord in the Body:

" . . . but when this is founded on heresy and self indulgence, it is never going to be an different. Sinners hate admitting sin, and pandering to preachers who complement consumerism and self interest and dreams of wealth and prosperity, while asking for donations to receive blessing, it is just a greed fest." -PeterJens​

WHO are you talking to? No one here.

But I'm sure no one notices . . .

I don't agree with this. Peter is simply witnessing what he believes. If you don't like what he says, don't read it and allow yourself to be discomfited.

And btw, this isn't just some little private group ("no one here"); it's the whole world. So I suspect that what he describes is applicable to some part of it.

Maybe part of the problem is that some people take things too personally and consider rejection of what they believe as personal attacks, rather than just being a rejection of their doctrine.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Prove it,, SHow me from the peoples own words where they believe these things.

I have seen comments made from accusers, But i have never seen a person say they teach those things, so oh wise man, put your money where you mouth is, Show a person who teaches hypergrace where they teach all of those things which we are discussing according to the list Peter put up, and I highlighted.

I look forward to your reply.

You prove what you claimed.

Oh? Difference of opinion? Well then deal with it and quit accusing us of making false accusations. Otherwise prove that we are wrong.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You prove what you claimed.

Oh? Difference of opinion? Well then deal with it and quit accusing us of making false accusations. Otherwise prove that we are wrong.

Your the one who made the accusations. and called me a liar. Prove hypergrace believes that.. come one, if it is as you claim, it should be easy.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Peter you should no better, No they are not, Thats what you THINK they teach, It is not what they teach.. You can say until your blue in the face this is what they believe, it will not make it true. [/B][/COLOR]

It's actually what I've read they say they believe.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

It's actually what I've read they say they believe.

Then show it, show proof from the people themselves. and not from an outside source who claims they believe things, with quotes taken out of context, so we can't see what the person is actually saying..

I agree with everything they say from what I have read in THEIR OWN WORDS as far as the gospel.. So your attacking me and all grace believers when you attack them
so come on, where is your proof..

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Your the one who made the accusations. and called me a liar. Prove hypergrace believes that.. come one, if it is as you claim, it should be easy.

I don't recollect where I've called you a liar recently. Could you perhaps show me. Or is this just more of your hyperbole to stir up controversy?

We have a disagreement about what hyper grace teaches. OK. Deal with it. You're not the expert.