The Holy Spirit convicts of sin

[PeterJens]

Paul Ellis Escape from reality web site on a post May 5 2016 writes this

Unless Michael has had a radical change of heart, it is accurate to say that he disagrees with me when I say: Jesus is a Person, all our sins are forgiven, the Holy Spirit never convicts the believer of sin, God is always pleased with his kids, you are 100% holy, sanctification is wholly by grace, all the words of Jesus are good and relevant for today, the hyper-grace gospel is the only gospel, and you are eternally secure. Feel free to prove me wrong (and I would love to be wrong about MB).

https://escapetoreality.org/2016/05/04/michael-brown-grace-controversy/

Now it is true that people in every movement disagree with particular points by one that has been recurring is about the ministry of the Holy Spirit. If the Lord does not convict of sin which leads to repentance and reconciliation with God who does?
Satan? If satan is convicting people of sin, then surely he is doing Gods work for him and bringing light into darkness?

Various people claimed Hyper-grace do not teach this, yet here is a hyper-grace teacher quoted often by Grace7x77 as the authority on the subject saying exactly that.

So someone is lying and deceiving about their own groups position. Now if people in reality are just generally wallowing about in this or that doctrine as the mood takes them why do they think they are saved at all, because maybe tomorrow their doctrine will be something else.

Now I have had 30+ years of a consistent view of faith, so I find this flip-flopping complete compromise. It is hard to respect "christians" who claim such superiority and condemning me as lost and unchristian yet do not even keep their story consistent.

 

[Willie-T]

No "flip-flopping." Read the actual words of the passage that we all know well. It says that the Holy Spirit convicts THE WORLD of sin, and then goes on to say He reminds BELIEVERS of their righteousness....... since it cannot be anyone else He is reminding of their righteousness, BUT believers.

 

[PeterJens]

This is reality is me asking people about integrity and knowing what they stand for and being consistent.

Either the Holy Spirit convicts of sin or He does not?

My experience from myself and many other christians is 100% all 3 members of the trinity convict people of sin.
It is not like holiness once seen demonstrates how far we fall short.

So once you state God is not really involved in holiness by implication, you are on very sticky ground, already into heresy and blasphemy. So many testimonies of people who saw Jesus and the overwhelming sensation of being unworthy, sinful, needing to repent and get oneself right, followed by the presence of God. Every major revival is full of people pleading with God for forgiveness and this sense of supply and total abandonment to the need to be forgiven while being unable to see any self justification.

What gets so twisted, by me describing this spiritual reality, I am somehow being self righteous and justifying my worthiness when I am saying the opposite. So these lunatics, do not listen to scripture, peoples spiritual experiences or even what their own teachers are saying. No wonder it is very confusing.

Jesus was never like this or any experience I have had of real spiritual reality.

 

[PeterJens]

No "flip-flopping." Read the actual words of the passage that we all know well. It says that the Holy Spirit convicts THE WORLD of sin, and then goes on to say He reminds BELIEVERS of their righteousness....... since it cannot be anyone else He is reminding of their righteousness, BUT believers.

We are part of the world. Every believer starts in the world. Once you are righteous and walking with Jesus without sin, he shows you your special place. Ofcourse if you have no sin to be convicted of, you will not get convicted, but if you had some, still the Lord would convict and bring you to repentance. Why would it be otherwise?

But you are really saying believers are sinners, but are no longer convicted of sin because sin does not matter.
Round and round the argument then goes, which is a contradiction of the gospel itself.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

I agree with you on this point peter. The Holy Spirit DOES convince me of sin. He shows me when I am being prideful. When I am being hypocritical. When I am trying to make excuses (fig leaves) to cover up my true hearts motivation. He shows me when I am actually feeling pride over His graces and looking down on and accusing others for not seeing yet some of what He's shown me. He is faithful to do this for me. Then, He is faithful to show me when I go the wrong way and just try harder instead of looking to God to grow my virtues.

I really like that website and have found a lot of truth there and help there. But I disagree with this point. How could I not disagree when my own experience is the exact opposite?

Hey, since I have found you, I have read two books recently that I think you would get much from.
The Truth Principle, by Leslie Vernick and
The Low Road to New Heights, by Wellington Boone.
I thought of you often as I read them and knew you would like them. They are not throwaway books but are those to keep and read many times over the years.

If I had to guess which you would MOST like, I would say...The Truth Principal.

 

[Grace777x70]

This is another one of things that we have heard in our religious upbringing that they Holy Spirit convicts the believer like He does the world but scripture does not bear this out.

The word " convict/reprove/convince/expose" in question has many meanings attached to it as well.

It is only used 1 time in KJV as "convict"....it is used more often with the word "to reprove/rebuke/convince"...the word needs to be looked at in the "context" that it is used...

It is a revealing of things.....to the world the Holy Spirit reveals/convinces/expose their sin of unbelief in Jesus..

.to the believer He reveals/convinces/expose that they are the righteousness of Christ because He went to the Father to stand as an Advocate.

John 16:8-10 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] "And He, when He comes, will convict the world ( unbelievers ) concerning sin and righteousness and judgment;

[SUP]9 [/SUP] concerning sin, because they( unbelievers ) do not believe in Me;

[SUP]10 [/SUP] and concerning righteousness, because I go to the Father and you ( believers ) no longer see Me;

1 John 2:1-2 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous;

[SUP]2 [/SUP] and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.

Here are a few examples of the same exact word used in scripture...as one can clearly see..this word has many uses depending on the context.

1 Corinthians 14:24 (KJV)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all:

Titus 1:9 (KJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.

Matthew 18:15 (KJV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.

John 8:46 (KJV)
[SUP]46 [/SUP] Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?

English Words used in KJV: reprove 6
rebuke 5
convince 4
tell (one's) fault 1
convict 1
[Total Count: 17]

Strong's Talking Greek & Hebrew Dictionary.

 

[Scriptureplz]

This is reality is me asking people about integrity and knowing what they stand for and being consistent.

Either the Holy Spirit convicts of sin or He does not?

My experience from myself and many other christians is 100% all 3 members of the trinity convict people of sin.
It is not like holiness once seen demonstrates how far we fall short.

So once you state God is not really involved in holiness by implication, you are on very sticky ground, already into heresy and blasphemy. So many testimonies of people who saw Jesus and the overwhelming sensation of being unworthy, sinful, needing to repent and get oneself right, followed by the presence of God. Every major revival is full of people pleading with God for forgiveness and this sense of supply and total abandonment to the need to be forgiven while being unable to see any self justification.

What gets so twisted, by me describing this spiritual reality, I am somehow being self righteous and justifying my worthiness when I am saying the opposite. So these lunatics, do not listen to scripture, peoples spiritual experiences or even what their own teachers are saying. No wonder it is very confusing.

Jesus was never like this or any experience I have had of real spiritual reality.

God is already offering forgiveness. Why would anyone need to "plead" for it? God offers a free gift and you think people need to plead for it? It would be helpful if you would try to recognize all the scripture that relates to the position of the believer once they have accepted the gospel of Christ. Can you explain what scripture says immediately happens to that believer?

 

[Willie-T]

We are part of the world. Every believer starts in the world. Once you are righteous and walking with Jesus without sin, he shows you your special place. Ofcourse if you have no sin to be convicted of, you will not get convicted, but if you had some, still the Lord would convict and bring you to repentance. Why would it be otherwise?

But you are really saying believers are sinners, but are no longer convicted of sin because sin does not matter.
Round and round the argument then goes, which is a contradiction of the gospel itself.

No, I was repeating exactly what the passage reads, It is you doing your usual dance to make things come out the way you live.

You may believe you are still in the world, but I know that I am not.

 

[Violet24]

Matthew Henry Commentary
4:1-6 Nothing is pressed more earnestly in the Scriptures, than to walk as becomes those called to Christ's kingdom and glory. By lowliness, understand humility, which is opposed to pride. By meekness, that excellent disposition of soul, which makes men unwilling to provoke, and not easily to be provoked or offended. We find much in ourselves for which we can hardly forgive ourselves; therefore we must not be surprised if we find in others that which we think it hard to forgive. There is one Christ in whom all believers hope, and one heaven they are all hoping for; therefore they should be of one heart. They had all one faith, as to its object, Author, nature, and power. They all believed the same as to the great truths of religion; they had all been admitted into the church by one baptism, with water, in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, as the sign of regeneration. In all believers God the Father dwells, as in his holy temple, by his Spirit and special grace.Ephesians 4:2 Commentaries

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

No "flip-flopping." Read the actual words of the passage that we all know well. It says that the Holy Spirit convicts THE WORLD of sin, and then goes on to say He reminds BELIEVERS of their righteousness....... since it cannot be anyone else He is reminding of their righteousness, BUT believers.

The world is the word kosmos, which simply means the natural order. Both believers and unbelievers are in the world. The holy spirit, therefore, convicts everyone of their sin.

 

[Grace777x70]

The Holy Spirit is called the Spirit of Grace not the Spirit of guilt. The Holy Spirit reveals the things of God to us. He convinces the world of their unbelief in Jesus. He convinces the believer of the righteousness of God in Christ because of what Jesus did for us.

Our own heart will condemn us when we sin but God is greater then our heart and knows all things. 1 John 3:20


Here is a 3 minute video that shows what John 16:8-10 is talking about.


[video=youtube;zyAuhRf73D8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zyAuhRf73D8[/video]

 

[Willie-T]

The world is the word kosmos, which simply means the natural order. Both believers and unbelievers are in the world. The holy spirit, therefore, convicts everyone of their sin.

So, by your logic, He tells unbelievers of their righteousness? (Remember, there are three parts of that passage.)

 

[Grace777x70]

The world is the word kosmos, which simply means the natural order. Both believers and unbelievers are in the world. The holy spirit, therefore, convicts everyone of their sin.

It seems scripture says things differently.

John 17:14 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] "I have given them Your word; and the world has hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

John 17:16 (NASB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] "They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

1 John 3:1 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] See how great a love the Father has bestowed on us, that we would be called children of God; and such we are. For this reason the world does not know us, because it did not know Him.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

No, I was repeating exactly what the passage reads, It is you doing your usual dance to make things come out the way you live.

You may believe you are still in the world, but I know that I am not.

I'd expect that kind of statement to come from a patient in a mental ward.

I do not ask that you take them out of the world, but that you protect them from the evil one. John 17:15​

 

[Ariel82]

I am going to answer the title because i did want to talk about the topic, but don't want to read and respond to various posts because it has the warning flags of another battle zone

I am going to gather Bible verses the title reminds me of....

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

So, by your logic, He tells unbelievers of their righteousness? (Remember, there are three parts of that passage.)

Where is their righteousness mentioned in John 16:8, 10? Sounds like you're reading something into the text.

 

[Ariel82]

*You have not yet resisted to bloodshed, striving against sin. *And you have forgotten the exhortation which speaks to you as to sons:“My son, do not despise the chastening of the Lord,Nor be discouraged when you are rebuked by Him;*For whom the Lord loves He chastens,And scourges every son whom He receives.”*If you endure chastening, God deals with you as with sons; for what son is there whom a father does not chasten? *But if you are without chastening, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate and not sons. *Furthermore, we have had human fathers who corrected us, and we paid them respect. Shall we not much more readily be in subjection to the Father of spirits and live? *For they indeed for a few days chastened us as seemed best to them, but He for our profit, that we may be partakers of His holiness. *Now no chastening seems to be joyful for the present, but painful; nevertheless, afterward it yields the peaceable fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it. - Hebrews 12:4-11 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Hebrews12:4-11&version=NIV

 

[Grace777x70]

This truth on the surface may "conflict" with what our religious upbringing taught us.

The "you" here in the text are the disciples whom Jesus was talking to at the time. Context is important. when looking at all scriptures. The "they" is the world.

John 16:8-10 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] "And He, when He comes, will convict the world ( unbelievers ) concerning sin and righteousness and judgment;

[SUP]9 [/SUP] concerning sin, because they( unbelievers ) do not believe in Me;

[SUP]10 [/SUP] and concerning righteousness, because I go to the Father and you ( believers ) no longer see Me;

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

It seems scripture says things differently.

John 17:14 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] "I have given them Your word; and the world has hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

John 17:16 (NASB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] "They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

1 John 3:1 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] See how great a love the Father has bestowed on us, that we would be called children of God; and such we are. For this reason the world does not know us, because it did not know Him.

There's a difference between the words of and in. We are in the world (therefore the holy spirit convicts us of sin), but we are not of the world.

 

[Ariel82]

We are not condemned but God convicts (makes our hearts agree with God that we are wrong) us when He chastens us.