The Holy Spirit convicts of sin

[PeterJens]

And no one can keep the law.. Those are pauls words not mine.

Dear reader this is not actually biblical.

But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe.
Rom 3:21-22

What Paul is saying is you can be blamless under the law, but this does not make you righteous or acceptable to God.
Acceptable to God comes through faith.

The mistake that is being made is to say that being blameless is impossible, and it is ok for christians to ignore morality. Morality is like a super-spiritual extra, like to not be a carnal christian, or they would say not walking in the flesh but the
Spirit.

Paul as far as the law went said this

If someone else thinks they have reasons to put confidence in the flesh, I have more: circumcised on the eighth day, of the people of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; in regard to the law, a Pharisee; as for zeal, persecuting the church; as for righteousness based on the law, faultless.
Phil 3:4-6

You are witnesses, and so is God, of how holy, righteous and blameless we were among you who believed.
1 Thess 3:13

Paul is saying he lived a holy, righteous, blameless life among the believers.

This does not sound like the self condemnation I hear being preached by the hyper-grace group.

And as stated the line is a lie, Paul did not say you cannot keep the law, he just said it does not make you righteous or acceptable. It is faith that does this.

So when people think they understand Jesus and gospel I have shown otherwise.

 

[Ariel82]

Hmmmm...okay, I'm out.

See everyone in a different thread.

It was nice having a conversation with most of you,

God bless and keep you.

 

[PeterJens]

The issue has never been about chasten or convict. If you listen to so many hyper grace teachers they believe sin consciousness is evil, and you can do nothing about sin, it will just disappear as you realise you are a child of God.

So not repentance or confession or commitment to change behaviour.

But if you want to believe this propoganda about the only difference is a word taken two ways, then go ahead.
It is just another distraction that is not true.

 

[ladylynn]

This makes sense, Taking us from the law which condemns, to the law of love, It shows us how to love others, And tries to remove our focus of self. and on to others.. It is sort of like trying to show someone who made a wrong turn, not his mistake (he alread knew his mistake( but the correct action he should have taken.

Sort of like my road rage example. The Holy Spirit would not show me my sin (I already KNOW its sin) he will show me the way I should have acted (which in my experience, is most times worse than exposing my sin, It shows how still self centered I can be)

Something He knew all along (your self centered-ness) and yet loved you exactly the same all along. That is grace. That is the kind of love God has for His sons and daughters. When we see how sin works in the flesh, we are sickened maybe even appalled as He opens our understanding of it. But He wants us to see the solution to that awful sin problem in the flesh.

Christians need to KNOW that God loves us no matter what (grace) AND He has already prepared for us the way out without condemnation, (grace) we agree with Him about sin but the difference is we now can walk on in the freedom Christ died for us to have. Accepting again and again in the process., the gift of no condemnation. Believing the Word of God and not our feelings and emotions that seek to make a payment.

Christians who don't know the grace of God in Christ at such times., would maybe rush rush rush around trying to fix the problem, trying to make it right and when they can't., go into a deep depression maybe like I did about sin.

After an "appropriate" time of self loathing we feel we "DID" something and suffered enough so now we can at least go to God with some of those self inflicted and deserved self "scourgings"..., we are now a bit more worthy than before to make up for the sin. Now we are 'ready' like a self stuffed turkey

Meanwhile., while we were busy focusing on how we can make things work., the enemy is glad to have sidetracked another Christian in the cycle of looking at themselves for the answer and not Jesus. And the enemy has our number and can side track us again and again with condemnation and leave us alone for a few weeks as we hate ourselves staying away from God (suffering) LOL. The enemy just has to set the timer sort of speak and come back later. Soooo easy we make it for him.



Refusing to get on that un ending cycle of works in the flesh and instead letting the finished work of Jesus take care of our sin problem., THAT is most pleasing to God! because we are magnifying Christ and not ourselves. We are appreciating and acknowledging Jesus for what He has done and not trying to do it ourselves. yaaayy

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

No, it's not just a matter of using different words, but one of believing entirely different concepts.

One concept is that the holy spirit convicts (or whatever word you want to use) believers of their sins.

Hyper grace teaches that the spirit convicts (or whatever word you want to use) believers of their righteousness.

 

[Willie-T]

it keeps happening because people keep making the same accusations, Then when someone tries to show them how wrong they are. They get defensive, and these fights keep happening, Instead of people standing up and telling these people what they are doing is wrong, they try to be nice to them (when it has failed to work over months) and allow them to continue to spread their lies about other people..

It is time for everyone to stand up and expose these people for what they really are and trying to stop sugar coatingn the issue. this has gone on for months now..

No, as we keep telling them, that is not what Jesus asked us to do. And to do so, would to be doing no better than what they are doing.

Anyone who matters, can easily see them and their hang-ups, so, we just keep trying to show them Jesus.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Dear reader this is not actually biblical.

But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe.
Rom 3:21-22

What Paul is saying is you can be blamless under the law, but this does not make you righteous or acceptable to God.
Acceptable to God comes through faith.

The mistake that is being made is to say that being blameless is impossible, and it is ok for christians to ignore morality. Morality is like a super-spiritual extra, like to not be a carnal christian, or they would say not walking in the flesh but the
Spirit.

Paul as far as the law went said this

If someone else thinks they have reasons to put confidence in the flesh, I have more: circumcised on the eighth day, of the people of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; in regard to the law, a Pharisee; as for zeal, persecuting the church; as for righteousness based on the law, faultless.
Phil 3:4-6

You are witnesses, and so is God, of how holy, righteous and blameless we were among you who believed.
1 Thess 3:13

Paul is saying he lived a holy, righteous, blameless life among the believers.

This does not sound like the self condemnation I hear being preached by the hyper-grace group.

And as stated the line is a lie, Paul did not say you cannot keep the law, he just said it does not make you righteous or acceptable. It is faith that does this.

So when people think they understand Jesus and gospel I have shown otherwise.

see here we go again.

peter took m completely out of context, and argued a point I neve made to begin with.

thus is why he never sees what others believe

peter your whole argument was useless, because it never discussed the point I originally made, thus never showed what I was saying was wrong

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The issue has never been about chasten or convict. If you listen to so many hyper grace teachers they believe sin consciousness is evil, and you can do nothing about sin, it will just disappear as you realise you are a child of God.

So not repentance or confession or commitment to change behaviour.

But if you want to believe this propoganda about the only difference is a word taken two ways, then go ahead.
It is just another distraction that is not true.

thats your view and your certainly allowed to have it,

but it we disagree. In fact putting people under law is the worst thing a person can do, which is what it appears you are doing

 

[eternally-gratefull]

No, as we keep telling them, that is not what Jesus asked us to do. And to do so, would to be doing no better than what they are doing.

Anyone who matters, can easily see them and their hang-ups, so, we just keep trying to show them Jesus.

thats fine at work, at school or at play

but if we want this nonsense to stop in our chat room, we have to stand up or this nonsense will continue

 

[Willie-T]

thats fine at work, at school or at play

but if we want this nonsense to stop in our chat room, we have to stand up or this nonsense will continue

Jesus said they would always be with us.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

I would agree except I would say this..

I knew it was sin before I did it, While I was doing it, and after I did it, But because my mind was taken off God and put on self (carnal minded) I "did the thing I did not want to do, and did not do what I wanted to do " As paul would ay in romans 7.

The HS does not have to convince, or convict me of that sin, I already knew it was sin.. He has to convince me I took my eyes of God, and I should have done what you said, and kept my focus on God..

then I would never have sinned to begin with.

so how the differences are so subtle (terms) but has caused almost a whole day of fighting (actually months, actually years, actually decaded, whew, lets say the truth, since man first sinned this has been a problem) , because of a minsunderstanding?

That's a bit trickier forme , but then, I am probably not as mature as you yet, so it makes sense that it would be trickier for me.

Why it's trickier than that is because...I MYSELF am so tricky. My heartis SO deceitful that i can literally convince myself I have NOT sinned when I have.

It's like with O.J. Simpson. At some point, I think he toldt he lie enough that he came to actually BELIEVE he did not murder his wife.

It might be hard for you to understand or believe,but I really AM the most self deceiving being on earth. Some unbelievers are actually better people morally than me sometimes. I'm not making this up or exaggerating how I can deceive even my OWN self. My heartis SO deceitful and sneaky and adept that I cannot trust or rely on it to show me what is hidden in it. I have to look to Him even for this.

I see improvement in this but I have also seen me revert back to my self deceptions sO smoothly that I am not even aware Ihav e done it at first.

And this is just ONE of my enemies - my own flesh. This has taken no account that thew orld and the devil pile on too, very eager to tryto keep me convinced I haven't sinned. I am more helpless than anyone. Literally.

 

[PeterJens]

No, it's not just a matter of using different words, but one of believing entirely different concepts.
One concept is that the holy spirit convicts (or whatever word you want to use) believers of their sins.
Hyper grace teaches that the spirit convicts (or whatever word you want to use) believers of their righteousness.

The agressive nature of the interactions leads me to miss these basic distinctions.

If EG is saying conviction is the issue not about what, I had assumed he meant sin, not different things.
It is like playing a game with the enemy. There is nothing that does not need double checking and everything is distorted and changed to appear one way and not the other.

A lot of this is allowed to happen because integrity is not questioned, and things are just accepted at face value.

 

[PeterJens]

see here we go again.

peter took m completely out of context, and argued a point I neve made to begin with.

thus is why he never sees what others believe

peter your whole argument was useless, because it never discussed the point I originally made, thus never showed what I was saying was wrong

This is simply not true. The statement was "no one can keep the law"
I answered this question. Your audience do not really care, but that just shows how shot it all is.

But thankyou again for teaching me something I had not seen before. Amen and praise the Lord.

 

[Grace777x70]

We have a New Covenant built upon better promises and the blood of Jesus speaks of better things.

The Holy Spirit in us speaks to us about " the things of God". His job - Jesus said " Is to take of Mine and to show it unto you ". The Holy Spirit reminds us of who we are in Christ now and what Jesus has done for us.

His job is two-fold - "Revelation and Remembrance" and it is all to do with Jesus!

Isn't that exciting? We are children of God created in righteousness and holiness! We have been redeemed and set free from sin and destruction and we now have a new life in Christ!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Jesus said they would always be with us.

so we let that nonsense go on in church. How could we ever teach anyone

 

[eternally-gratefull]

This is simply not true. The statement was "no one can keep the law"
I answered this question. Your audience do not really care, but that just shows how shot it all is.

But thankyou again for teaching me something I had not seen before. Amen and praise the Lord.

unless you can show where people are sinless. You prove me right (that was my context)

what at you did, was take what I said, twist what I meant, and replied to what you THINK I SAID and not what I actually said.

sadly, I fear you will never see it, because you still do not, and are still causing division based I slander and half truths of at other are actually saying

 

[ladylynn]

seriously.. All she did was ask a few questions, and now you are attacking her? When will it end Peter??

View attachment 153020

This picture needs to come up more. I was just going to post it here myself. It's time. Thanks EG. Sometimes words fail and this picture is a great solution and answer to some of the wacky things posted here.

 

[Grace777x70]

so we let that nonsense go on in church. How could we ever teach anyone

We can give out the scriptures that speak of Christ and of trusting in His salvation only and trust the Holy Spirit in the viewers to bear witness of the truth in them. Some of us have been dealing with the same things for 6 months now and there is no fruit that I can see....but like our sister Demi said..(either in this thread or another one ) ..sometimes we just plant the seed and let the seed do "it's thing".

 

[eternally-gratefull]

We can give out the scriptures that speak of Christ and of trusting in His salvation only and trust the Holy Spirit in the viewers to bear witness of the truth in them. Some of us have been dealing with the same things for 6 months now and there is no fruit that I can see....but like our sister Demi said..(either in this thread or another one ) ..sometimes we just plant the seed and let the seed do "it's thing".

If if we let this rampant evil slander go in our churches, no one will ever find christ

it is one thing to disagree and have a little arguing

it is another to month after month stand by while a few people tear others down with false accusations, and slanderous lies,

jesus turned the table over and exposed the lies, and told the Liars to get out.

 

[Grace777x70]

unless you can show where people are sinless. You prove me right (that was my context)

what at you did, was take what I said, twist what I meant, and replied to what you THINK I SAID and not what I actually said.

sadly, I fear you will never see it, because you still do not, and are still causing division based I slander and half truths of at other are actually saying

...it is possible to be "blameless" according to the law but in reality we are totally unrighteous when it comes to the Lord's righteousness.

When we receive Christ - we are as righteous as God is because we are in Christ. We will never be any more righteous throughout eternity then we are now - for those that are in Christ that is...

This is a stumbling block to the self-righteous that need to do things to "maintain" their righteousness.

When they see a statement like "We are as righteous as God " - their mind goes "tilt"....and it is all because they don't know the gospel message of the righteousness of Christ that is a part of us now because we are one in spirit with the Lord. They don't really see the new creation in Christ that is holy, blameless, righteous, beloved of God.