The Holy Spirit convicts of sin
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Part of the calvanistic belief is total inability to walk in righteousness. If you believe this you believe it is impossible to walk righteously. Equally you cannot ever be free from sin. People have a view on inherited sin from adam and personal sin, but overall these positions are against sinless perfectionism.
Now my position has always been to ask, can we walk in righteousness, our own righteousness and purity, be acceptable to God. I asked this question many times, in many ways, and the answer has been no.
So the general position is of repeated sin and defeat not victory. If this is not your position and a lie, welcome brother.
Now saying we should be righteous, means we should obey, which means our goal is obedience.
If you oppose this then you oppose where I stand.
And your characterisation of this is legalism, which you then label evil etc.
So in summary I have not lied, you just do not like the way I have expressed this and seen your own logical failures in your contradictatory beliefs. But the fact we are talking and going through this is helpful.
Basically my summary of your faith is 100% correct. Thankyou. I have not lied or slandered you or miss-represented you.
So again you are in my debt. And rather than me being agressive I have merely stated your beliefs and where I disagree with you. But I am evil and a liar, a slanderer. Sounds to me like you are punching in the air again.
Now my position has always been to ask, can we walk in righteousness, our own righteousness and purity, be acceptable to God. I asked this question many times, in many ways, and the answer has been no.
So the general position is of repeated sin and defeat not victory. If this is not your position and a lie, welcome brother.
Now saying we should be righteous, means we should obey, which means our goal is obedience.
If you oppose this then you oppose where I stand.
And your characterisation of this is legalism, which you then label evil etc.
So in summary I have not lied, you just do not like the way I have expressed this and seen your own logical failures in your contradictatory beliefs. But the fact we are talking and going through this is helpful.
Basically my summary of your faith is 100% correct. Thankyou. I have not lied or slandered you or miss-represented you.
So again you are in my debt. And rather than me being agressive I have merely stated your beliefs and where I disagree with you. But I am evil and a liar, a slanderer. Sounds to me like you are punching in the air again.
actually, no. 
it's the Biblical truth that we're born unable to come to God in our own power.
we need supernatural intervention from God to come to God.
once we are born again, we have God's power to change, and begin to walk in righteousness.
it's called sanctification, and the process lasts a lifetime.
sorry to interrupt whatever y'all have going here.
carry on.
it's the Biblical truth that we're born unable to come to God in our own power.
we need supernatural intervention from God to come to God.
once we are born again, we have God's power to change, and begin to walk in righteousness.
it's called sanctification, and the process lasts a lifetime.
sorry to interrupt whatever y'all have going here.
carry on.
For those still interested in what the role of the Holy Spirit is in the life of a believer vs. the unbeliever - here is a thread that was done talking about this very subject. There may be something in there that may help us to view some things from a different perspective.
This was a thread started by BenFTW.
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/125922-holy-spirit-convicts-sin-chapter-verse.html
This was a thread started by BenFTW.
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/125922-holy-spirit-convicts-sin-chapter-verse.html
Dear reader,
EG is an interesting character. I list his beliefs in outline, and then he says I do not know his gospel.
He agreed all the points I made and where he stands. So this is just schizophrenic behaviour.
If he had any intention of agreeing or coming to a conclusion he would leave it at that. But he repeats I am slandering him, etc so things never change. But what he does not see is everything is changing, just getting stronger and clearer.
EG is an interesting character. I list his beliefs in outline, and then he says I do not know his gospel.
He agreed all the points I made and where he stands. So this is just schizophrenic behaviour.
If he had any intention of agreeing or coming to a conclusion he would leave it at that. But he repeats I am slandering him, etc so things never change. But what he does not see is everything is changing, just getting stronger and clearer.
E
Who cares. I never claimed I am calvanist. If you want to be like HRFTD and try to put everyone under some grouping and say, Yes, I now them, because they are this. (when in reality they are nothing like that)
Then you will continue to make mistakes, and falsely accuse people.
Again, Your basing a belief based on what someone else believes, this is what gets you in trouble When have I ever claimed I believe this way?
And we would agree 100 %
Not sure what you mean here.. I will be honest, and not assume I know.. Thats what gets us into trouble.
AMEN!! That should be our goal.
I call this Spiritual maturity,
but we have to be careful because there are wolves out there and want to push this obedience as a means of salvation, which is legalism, so lets use Gods standard of obedience. so no one is confused.
Gods standard of righteousness is perfection. Not one person here in this room will ever meet that standard while walking on this earth.
so when SOME people say we can not be obeidient according to Gods standard, thats what they mean, It does not mean they are excusing sin, or do not believe people will mature in Christ. Quite the opposite.
It is not preaching calvanism.
Legalism is evil. It says my way to heaven is based on what I do. My acceptance to God is based on what I do. We can have legalism gospel. which lead people to hell. and legalistic christians, who focus on sin not forgiveness, which leads to lack of maturity and seeing God as a fear momger not a father.
I have witnessed both.. and both are evil (although one at least the people will be in heaven, just have mossed out on a glorious blessed time here on earth doing Gods worl. heving never entered his full rest. and seein ght epeace that surpasses all understanding.
Yes you have peter. And you still are if you continue saying people believe certain things which are not true..
Will you repent and admit you may be wrong, and actually sit down and listen to them?
No one is asking you to be like them, They are asking you to UNDESERTAND THEM Bug difference
Then you will continue to make mistakes, and falsely accuse people.
Again, Your basing a belief based on what someone else believes, this is what gets you in trouble When have I ever claimed I believe this way?
And we would agree 100 %
Not sure what you mean here.. I will be honest, and not assume I know.. Thats what gets us into trouble.
AMEN!! That should be our goal.
I call this Spiritual maturity,
but we have to be careful because there are wolves out there and want to push this obedience as a means of salvation, which is legalism, so lets use Gods standard of obedience. so no one is confused.
Gods standard of righteousness is perfection. Not one person here in this room will ever meet that standard while walking on this earth.
so when SOME people say we can not be obeidient according to Gods standard, thats what they mean, It does not mean they are excusing sin, or do not believe people will mature in Christ. Quite the opposite.
It is not preaching calvanism.
Legalism is evil. It says my way to heaven is based on what I do. My acceptance to God is based on what I do. We can have legalism gospel. which lead people to hell. and legalistic christians, who focus on sin not forgiveness, which leads to lack of maturity and seeing God as a fear momger not a father.
I have witnessed both.. and both are evil (although one at least the people will be in heaven, just have mossed out on a glorious blessed time here on earth doing Gods worl. heving never entered his full rest. and seein ght epeace that surpasses all understanding.
Yes you have peter. And you still are if you continue saying people believe certain things which are not true..
Will you repent and admit you may be wrong, and actually sit down and listen to them?
No one is asking you to be like them, They are asking you to UNDESERTAND THEM Bug difference
Of course you aren't an unbeliever every time you murder in your heart. You have let your pride rise up and have not let Him be Lord for a moment because if you were letting Him be Lord, you would leave it in Hish ands instead of wanting to defend yourself.
But thisdo esn't make you suddenly not a believer. It makesy ou rebellious to the Spiritin you in that moment. I would explain it as, you stop abiding in Him in that moment.
AT some point you are ready to listen to Him when He convinces you of the disobedience of your anger, your murder. If the word "convinces" or the word "convicts" is a problem, I am perfectly willing to use a different word to come to unity in the matter and say...He "shows" me my sin or He "points out" to me what I have done. But if I didnt' have His Spirit, I would be in bondage tothe petty selfish little tyrant in me who wants to fight and defend my little plot of turf. Who demands that others must treat me well and give me honor. I would neverev en SEE that what I did wasw rong. but He frees me from this tyrant by showing me what this tyrant is up to and how this tyrant wants to bringm e under subjection to him.
IAM fine with saying He "pointed out"my sin to me to grow me more in humility instead of saying He "convicted" my heart ofwh at it was doing if it can help with our unity.i don't have to insist on just one exact way of explaining it. I don't WANT to be tyrannical in my demand over which word must be used. I just want unity of the Spirit with my siblings.
But thisdo esn't make you suddenly not a believer. It makesy ou rebellious to the Spiritin you in that moment. I would explain it as, you stop abiding in Him in that moment.
AT some point you are ready to listen to Him when He convinces you of the disobedience of your anger, your murder. If the word "convinces" or the word "convicts" is a problem, I am perfectly willing to use a different word to come to unity in the matter and say...He "shows" me my sin or He "points out" to me what I have done. But if I didnt' have His Spirit, I would be in bondage tothe petty selfish little tyrant in me who wants to fight and defend my little plot of turf. Who demands that others must treat me well and give me honor. I would neverev en SEE that what I did wasw rong. but He frees me from this tyrant by showing me what this tyrant is up to and how this tyrant wants to bringm e under subjection to him.
IAM fine with saying He "pointed out"my sin to me to grow me more in humility instead of saying He "convicted" my heart ofwh at it was doing if it can help with our unity.i don't have to insist on just one exact way of explaining it. I don't WANT to be tyrannical in my demand over which word must be used. I just want unity of the Spirit with my siblings.
E
1. I did not believe with every point, this is just nonsense
2. You never stated what my gospel was. I even asked you what it was AFTER you tried to name a few points.
Are you going to continue to be this way? Is there no hope for you to admit even once you may be wrong (not to people who you no longer see as a threat to you, thats easy to ask forgiveness)
2. You never stated what my gospel was. I even asked you what it was AFTER you tried to name a few points.
Are you going to continue to be this way? Is there no hope for you to admit even once you may be wrong (not to people who you no longer see as a threat to you, thats easy to ask forgiveness)
Is anything I fancy, because I have no desire to accept them on any level, but will declare I will except for ....
This is a simple merry go round where the impression is to create agreement, but actually deliver none.
EG takes people on in this destructive way all the time. If you have no empathy but can create the impression of it, as if someone could make contact, you can take a discussion wherever you like, dump the awkward bits and start at the same place tomorrow.
The actual intent is just appear immovable and be the one holding the power and truth, because nothing is ever going to change.
This is a simple merry go round where the impression is to create agreement, but actually deliver none.
EG takes people on in this destructive way all the time. If you have no empathy but can create the impression of it, as if someone could make contact, you can take a discussion wherever you like, dump the awkward bits and start at the same place tomorrow.
The actual intent is just appear immovable and be the one holding the power and truth, because nothing is ever going to change.
E
I would agree except I would say this..
I knew it was sin before I did it, While I was doing it, and after I did it, But because my mind was taken off God and put on self (carnal minded) I "did the thing I did not want to do, and did not do what I wanted to do " As paul would ay in romans 7.
The HS does not have to convince, or convict me of that sin, I already knew it was sin.. He has to convince me I took my eyes of God, and I should have done what you said, and kept my focus on God..
then I would never have sinned to begin with.
so how the differences are so subtle (terms) but has caused almost a whole day of fighting (actually months, actually years, actually decaded, whew, lets say the truth, since man first sinned this has been a problem) , because of a minsunderstanding?
I knew it was sin before I did it, While I was doing it, and after I did it, But because my mind was taken off God and put on self (carnal minded) I "did the thing I did not want to do, and did not do what I wanted to do " As paul would ay in romans 7.
The HS does not have to convince, or convict me of that sin, I already knew it was sin.. He has to convince me I took my eyes of God, and I should have done what you said, and kept my focus on God..
then I would never have sinned to begin with.
so how the differences are so subtle (terms) but has caused almost a whole day of fighting (actually months, actually years, actually decaded, whew, lets say the truth, since man first sinned this has been a problem) , because of a minsunderstanding?
The secret of living a perfect life is following Jesus. He said so or is he lying?
Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”
Matt 19:21
The only reason these guys do not believe in righteousness is because secretly they are hyper-legalists and say righteousness is just an illusion, all we can hope for is being with Christ.
What do I mean by this? If you sat in a room alone by yourself would you have sinned?
So the core concept is then what is sin and what is holiness, or purity or righteousness. There answer is just impossible.
So their smear is on anyone who says it is possible is you are lying. It is their statement of faith, no more, no less.
Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”
Matt 19:21
The only reason these guys do not believe in righteousness is because secretly they are hyper-legalists and say righteousness is just an illusion, all we can hope for is being with Christ.
What do I mean by this? If you sat in a room alone by yourself would you have sinned?
So the core concept is then what is sin and what is holiness, or purity or righteousness. There answer is just impossible.
So their smear is on anyone who says it is possible is you are lying. It is their statement of faith, no more, no less.
Dear reader, I have been with schizophrenics before.
They always return to the same emotional statement but it has no content. The annoying thing about content is it requires action.
EG wants me to simply stop opposing hyper-grace. But tough cookies, hyper-grace is heresy, as indicated by the conviction the Holy Spirit does not convict of sin. The only weapon he has is this continual accusation I am lying.
Does not work when I have proven I am not. Only a loser has to resort to this tactic and not actually debate facts.
The reason is the audience take sides in facts, but slander and slight are something anyone can win, which are better odds if you have nothing behind it. It is the tactic of the heretic and faker, the one who wants to impress with pretend.
Jesus died to give us victory of over sin, set the prisoner free. If you are still struggling you need to engage more with Christ and His people, confess your sins, repent and learn how to see how much Christ loved you through the cross and accepts you as you are, and in obedience reach out to others with that love and forgiveness.
It really works and is the power of the gospel. Taste and see for the Lord is good. Amen
They always return to the same emotional statement but it has no content. The annoying thing about content is it requires action.
EG wants me to simply stop opposing hyper-grace. But tough cookies, hyper-grace is heresy, as indicated by the conviction the Holy Spirit does not convict of sin. The only weapon he has is this continual accusation I am lying.
Does not work when I have proven I am not. Only a loser has to resort to this tactic and not actually debate facts.
The reason is the audience take sides in facts, but slander and slight are something anyone can win, which are better odds if you have nothing behind it. It is the tactic of the heretic and faker, the one who wants to impress with pretend.
Jesus died to give us victory of over sin, set the prisoner free. If you are still struggling you need to engage more with Christ and His people, confess your sins, repent and learn how to see how much Christ loved you through the cross and accepts you as you are, and in obedience reach out to others with that love and forgiveness.
It really works and is the power of the gospel. Taste and see for the Lord is good. Amen
E
why do people bother?
His lies have been exposed and proven.
Yet he refuses to acknowledge one wrong with anything he ever says.
yet demands we apologize to him,
this is the definition of a hypocrite.
Peter. You have proven today you never read anythting anyone says, One one post, We almost had an agreement, I thought we were going someplace. and just showed you where our differences lie..
Intead of taking it, And running with it so we can be brothers. You attacked it, Accused it of being a lie. and abused it.
Yet people will still try to be nice to you, say it is alright peter..
Well its not alright,, Your in sin, and this has got to stop!
His lies have been exposed and proven.
Yet he refuses to acknowledge one wrong with anything he ever says.
yet demands we apologize to him,
this is the definition of a hypocrite.
Peter. You have proven today you never read anythting anyone says, One one post, We almost had an agreement, I thought we were going someplace. and just showed you where our differences lie..
Intead of taking it, And running with it so we can be brothers. You attacked it, Accused it of being a lie. and abused it.
Yet people will still try to be nice to you, say it is alright peter..
Well its not alright,, Your in sin, and this has got to stop!
Sorry Eg, I should have read further before posting. It is so distressing that people would come to blows over a word or words when they are really saying the same damn thing. ANDT hat, saying the same thing, they each accuse each other of false teaching. I don't thinki will ever understand how itis possible that I keep seeing this happen...
E
it keeps happening because people keep making the same accusations, Then when someone tries to show them how wrong they are. They get defensive, and these fights keep happening, Instead of people standing up and telling these people what they are doing is wrong, they try to be nice to them (when it has failed to work over months) and allow them to continue to spread their lies about other people..
It is time for everyone to stand up and expose these people for what they really are and trying to stop sugar coatingn the issue. this has gone on for months now..
It is time for everyone to stand up and expose these people for what they really are and trying to stop sugar coatingn the issue. this has gone on for months now..
The problem is EG...no matter what people actually do say about a subject - others continue to think something else so it's impossible in some cases to reason with people like that. They already have what they think people say in their mind and that's it. Then they lament about how bad it is when in reality they have erected this "straw-man" in their own heads.
Sometimes we just have to let them go as it becomes a useless cycle of nonsense and no one can clear up that kind of nonsense in someone else's mind.
And we are allowed to agree to disagree on things too.
As they say in the deep south...
Sometimes we just have to let them go as it becomes a useless cycle of nonsense and no one can clear up that kind of nonsense in someone else's mind.
And we are allowed to agree to disagree on things too.
As they say in the deep south...