Total inability - original sin - inherited from adam

[Ariel82]

But if a righteous person turns from their righteousness and commits sin and does the same detestable things the wicked person does, will they live? None of the righteous things that person has done will be remembered. Because of the unfaithfulness they are guilty of and because of the sins they have committed, they will die.
Ezek 18:24

This verse implies a simple concept. Giving up righteousness is becoming like the unrighteous. Everything in terms of faith, deeds will be forgotton. This implies there is not a real eternal security, unless you stay with the Lord.
I have never read this before, but it is where my heart has been.

You did it again..focusing on the bad and never getting to the gospel and God's exhortation and hope...

Truly puzzling...

*The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not bear the guilt of the father, nor the father bear the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.*“But if a wicked man turns from all his sins which he has committed, keeps all My statutes, and does what is lawful and right, he shall surely live; he shall not die. *None of the transgressions which he has committed shall be remembered against him; because of the righteousness which he has done, he shall live. *Do I have any pleasure at all that the wicked should die?” says the Lord God, “and not that he should turn from his ways and live?*“But when a righteous man turns away from his righteousness and commits iniquity, and does according to all the abominations that the wicked man does, shall he live? All the righteousness which he has done shall not be remembered; because of the unfaithfulness of which he is guilty and the sin which he has committed, because of them he shall die.*“Yet you say, ‘The way of the Lord is not fair.’ Hear now, O house of Israel, is it not My way which is fair, and your ways which are not fair? *When a righteous man turns away from his righteousness, commits iniquity, and dies in it, it is because of the iniquity which he has done that he dies. *Again, when a wicked man turns away from the wickedness which he committed, and does what is lawful and right, he preserves himself alive. *Because he considers and turns away from all the transgressions which he committed, he shall surely live; he shall not die. *Yet the house of Israel says, ‘The way of the Lord is not fair.’ O house of Israel, is it not My ways which are fair, and your ways which are not fair?*“Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways,” says the Lord God. “Repent, and turn from all your transgressions, so that iniquity will not be your ruin. *Cast away from you all the transgressions which you have committed, and get yourselves a new heart and a new spirit. For why should you die, O house of Israel? *For I have no pleasure in the death of one who dies,” says the Lord God. “Therefore turn and live!” - Ezekiel 18:20-32 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ezekiel18:20-32&version=NIV

 

[Ariel82]

says the Lord God. “Repent, and turn from all your transgressions, so that iniquity will not be your ruin. *Cast away from you all the transgressions which you have committed, and get yourselves a new heart and a new spirit. For why should you die, O house of Israel? *For I have no pleasure in the death of one who dies,” says the Lord God. “Therefore turn and live!” - Ezekiel 18

That is the gospel message and command that people seek to be born again.


I think it's speaking of spiritual death and life and rebirth.

 

[VernonFrancis]

How do you become one with Christ?

our oneness will not be fully realized until we are married to Him, then we shall become one flesh, and we will be one with his righteousness. In this age there is none righteous , no not one. But in the age to come we shall be made righteous by unity with Jesus Christ, we shall become one with his flesh through marriage.

just a thought

 

[Ariel82]

Interesting thought...I think I will focus on today and let God handle eternity.

 

[PeterJens]

Does that fit with the OT God youve' read about...?
Noah was not destroyed with the wicked.

There are two realities in which we dwell in Christ. The first is this world, which is temporary flawed, full of a struggle
against death, limitations, unknowns. The second is the Kingdom of Heaven where the Lord meets needs and things
work within His will. One is mortal and one is eternal.

There has always been a tension between the responsibility of community and the justice to the individual.
In the end ultimate justice is ruled on the day of judgement, for the individual, but group justice is blunt and crude.

When whole communities go to war, there are both righteous and wicked there. When Uriah the Hittite died to free Bathesheba to marry David, where was the justice.

When a prophet is told not to eat while delivering a message, and another prophet lies about God changing this restriction, the prophet is killed by a lion. In Israel though they are brought out of Egypt, as punishment for the rebellion and making the golden calf, the levites strapped on swords and killed people through the camp.

So our view of things is limited, and judgement falls on the good and evil equally. When Israel was taken off by the babylonians there were still faithful prophets to the Lord there.

It is an incorrect idea that faith rescues us from the consequences of judgement on communities or guarantees blessing.

What we are commited to is the eternal Kingdom.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

There are two realities in which we dwell in Christ. The first is this world, which is temporary flawed, full of a struggle
against death, limitations, unknowns. The second is the Kingdom of Heaven where the Lord meets needs and things
work within His will. One is mortal and one is eternal.

There has always been a tension between the responsibility of community and the justice to the individual.
In the end ultimate justice is ruled on the day of judgement, for the individual, but group justice is blunt and crude.

When whole communities go to war, there are both righteous and wicked there. When Uriah the Hittite died to free Bathesheba to marry David, where was the justice.

When a prophet is told not to eat while delivering a message, and another prophet lies about God changing this restriction, the prophet is killed by a lion. In Israel though they are brought out of Egypt, as punishment for the rebellion and making the golden calf, the levites strapped on swords and killed people through the camp.

So our view of things is limited, and judgement falls on the good and evil equally. When Israel was taken off by the babylonians there were still faithful prophets to the Lord there.

It is an incorrect idea that faith rescues us from the consequences of judgement on communities or guarantees blessing.

What we are commited to is the eternal Kingdom.

Okaypet er.
Never mind.
Ithoughtyo u were seeing something thatyouweren 't.
That's my fault. IMSORR' y to have wasted your time!
Have agoodd ay, brother.

 

[PeterJens]

You did it again..focusing on the bad and never getting to the gospel and God's exhortation and hope...

It is always interesting what we focus on most. My work is business analysis and we always look for complexities and problems because the obvious issues are never the reasons why things work but the problems people overlook.

Much of what we are considering here takes a long time to think about and focus on.

I was praying about the issues we are dealing with here, and the answer is actually in plain sight. It never has been hidden.
And the core is about trust, rest, knowing you are loved, with a place beyond time and ravages of this world.

Being content, and not striving for the next rainbow. The Lord says you are precious. That is enough, not maybe ok, I want ..., but that is enough.

"Repent! Turn away from all your offenses; then sin will not be your downfall." Ezek 18:30

Too many times I have heard, we cannot turn from our transgressions only the Lord can make us do that.
This is a lie. We are commanded by the Lord through the prophets, John the Baptist, Jesus, the apostles.

Ofcourse the rebellious heart always looks for a way of justifying ones own behaviour and not repenting.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Hebrews 10:14
For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.

The word sanctification, another term for being made mature in Christ, or spiritual maturity.

It is us being sanctified. Not sanctifying yourself. it is a work of God in us, Teaching us, Guiding us, disciplining us when we need it, molding us into a vessel of Honor..

By his work on the cross. we are perfected forever (eternal life and security)

By his work in our lives we are continually being sanctified (some faster than others)

Yes, we are to work out our own salvation, the term used was used by the greeks as a mining term, To work to get out the minerals that are in the ground, They are already there, we just have to "mine" them, or extract them, so they can be used for whatever purpose they have.

God has given us every mean to be a light in the world Being "blameless" before a wicked generation, But we have to "work out" or "mine" those assets for them to be of any use.

But it is still God leading us to the mine, Discilplining us if we get off track, Teaching us how to use the tools in the way they were meat to be used, not in a way we think they should be used.

Some want to scream if we believe this way we are denying what God commands us, I would turn that around, and say if you are denying this, you are trying to do it all on your own, Where does God get the credit? Your doing all the work.. Your taking what is rightly God, and you may look spiritual, But that is all it will be, Because only God can show you how to use the tools.. Trying to do it on your own is like trying to work on a car with no training, It will not work

 

[Ariel82]

God wants us to live each day as a NEW day for Him.

You can't hang up you hat and say I did alot of good works Sunday. The rest of the week I can live however and wash myself again next week. Because to live like that isn't life but spiritual death and decay.

 

[Ariel82]

So the next question would be what,kind of tools and lessons God has taught us so far?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

God wants us to live each day as a NEW day for Him.

You can't hang up you hat and say I did alot of good works Sunday. The rest of the week I can live however and wash myself again next week. Because to live like that isn't life but spiritual death and decay.

Amen, We should "work out our salvation" every day.. Not just on days we feel like it.. Its easy to do it when all is good. But God wants us to do it when things get rough.

Thats when we are in the heat of battle. When God is at work in us the most. Lets take advantage of this wonderful truth.

If God be for us, WHO can be against us

Amen!

 

[Ariel82]

Personally God has helped me realize the difference between godly wisdom and worldly wisdom.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

So the next question would be what,kind of tools and lessons God has taught us so far?

I would say the first tool he gave us is his unfathomable mercy, grace and forgiveness, based on his endless love.

We love ONLY because God loves us first (he showed us the true way to love others. He loved us when we were his enemy!)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Personally God has helped me realize the difference between godly wisdom and worldly wisdom.

I pray he teaches us more and more every day. As we grow in him.

If we think we made it, and know it all. We are in trouble.. And satan is there, waiting to devour us..

 

[Ariel82]

*Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am tempted by God”; for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone. *But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed. *Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death. - James 1:13-15 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=James1:13-15&version=NKJV

 

[PeterJens]

Okaypet er.
Never mind.
Ithoughtyo u were seeing something thatyouweren 't.
That's my fault. IMSORR' y to have wasted your time!
Have agoodd ay, brother.

You have not wasted my time at all. These passages in Ezekiel are very important.

They lay out Gods heart with regard to sin and behaviour, judgement and blessing.

There have been long debates saying God does not care about future sin, it is just forgiven, wiped away.

Here is Ezekiel saying plainly this is heresy. The people of Israel will be judged and their past behaviour will be wiped away as if it never happened.

God never changes, He is eternal and so are His principles. It is heresy to preach that walking in sin does not condemn the soul. The block to this theology is what partly the pharisees suffered from, exagurating the rules to the extent they were never broken, but missing the content or intent.

Jesus says we are changed in side, so we walk in love as to the law, yet justified by our relationship to God not obedience.
A failure in the relationship is shown by sin, and failure of the relationship means loss of salvation.

The subject is total inability, because many believers are so full of failure and self condemnation the idea of doing the right thing to anyones standard is impossible. So ignore standards and just let rules be taken away.

God calls this lawlessness, doing what is right in your own eyes.

The tension in salvation is learning about God, his precepts, desires, rules, heart, cares and walking in this while learning about ourselves and tensions. As in all relationships it is a balancing act.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You have not wasted my time at all. These passages in Ezekiel are very important.

They lay out Gods heart with regard to sin and behaviour, judgement and blessing.

There have been long debates saying God does not care about future sin, it is just forgiven, wiped away.

Here is Ezekiel saying plainly this is heresy. The people of Israel will be judged and their past behaviour will be wiped away as if it never happened.

God never changes, He is eternal and so are His principles. It is heresy to preach that walking in sin does not condemn the soul. The block to this theology is what partly the pharisees suffered from, exagurating the rules to the extent they were never broken, but missing the content or intent.

Jesus says we are changed in side, so we walk in love as to the law, yet justified by our relationship to God not obedience.
A failure in the relationship is shown by sin, and failure of the relationship means loss of salvation.

The subject is total inability, because many believers are so full of failure and self condemnation the idea of doing the right thing to anyones standard is impossible. So ignore standards and just let rules be taken away.

God calls this lawlessness, doing what is right in your own eyes.

The tension in salvation is learning about God, his precepts, desires, rules, heart, cares and walking in this while learning about ourselves and tensions. As in all relationships it is a balancing act.

If future sin is not forgiven, they never will be,

Jesus died 2000 years ago, He aint going to come back and die for sin again.

Remember, Jesus died for your and I sin 2000 years ago. All our sin was future to him, He paid them all. or he paid non at all..

However, I agree, This does show what God thinks of sin.. Even the smallest of all sins. So this shows us, If we break even the LEAST of all of Gods commands, We are guilty of the whole law. And rightly and justly condemned forever.

There are not opps or mistakes in Gods eyes, Sin is sin is sin, Lets call sin for what it is.. Not excuse our sin, and make it ok to do these small sins, just because we did not commit those (evil) sins,

 

[jb]

Total inability - original sin - inherited from adam

Isaiah 53v6: "All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way..."

The Scriptures teach that we have "gone astray" and NOT "born astray"!

Ezek 18v20 further states: " The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him."

The issue of sin lies in the possession of freewill and not in our creation or surroundings, Lucifer, was created perfect, full of wisdom and perfect in beauty and in all his ways, then he wanted the top job, worship and power, he wanted to be like God and became the Devil, the liar and slanderer, the prince of darkness! The first sin occured in Heaven in God's Presence by a freewill creature, the Devil also then managed to lead astray a third of the billions of angels in Heaven in God's Presence! Isaiah 14v12-14, John 8v44, Rev 12v4

Adam and Eve were both created perfect, in perfect surroundings with God in their midst, yet they still chose sin, and ALL the inhabitants of the earth (except the Lord Jesus) have followed their example, BY CHOICE (i.e. by an act of freewill), "All we like sheep...") Rom 3v21, Phil 2v7,8, 8v3, Heb 2v17,18, 4v15

QED!

 

[Ariel82]

Being able to recognize good teachers for me has been key in developing a deeper understanding of the Bible and how to apply the lessons to my own life. I use the following scriptures as my measuring stick to whether I ask them for advice or not because I see them walking deeply in step with God.....

*But the wisdom that comes from heaven is first of all pure; then peace-loving, considerate, submissive, full of mercy and good fruit, impartial and sincere.*Peacemakers who sow in peace reap a harvest of righteousness. - James 3:17-18

So you can test
1. Pure (must align with the Bible and God's true nature)
2. Peace loving (willing to calm and soothe misunderstandings, but still remain true )
3. Considerate (listening to what others are saying)
4. Submissive ( primarily to God)
5. Full of mercy (grace and forgiveness)
6. Fruit ( I always think of fruits of the holy spirit)
7. Impartial (no playing favorites of asked to judge or mediate between two fighting brothers or even between a believer and nonbeliever)
8. Sincere ( it's not saying one thing but thinking mean thoughts in your heart about other people, or lying by saying you don't mind when you really do)

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

It is always interesting what we focus on most. My work is business analysis and we always look for complexities and problems because the obvious issues are never the reasons why things work but the problems people overlook.

People don't understand problem solvers.