CONDEMNATION IS THE ROOT CAUSE

[Willie-T]

Do you really think Jesus was confused when He quoted Psalm 22?

I think He likely was for a while just PRIOR to quoting it, and then He quoted it to not only fulfil prophesy, but to also show hope to the people listening to Him. I think it is more than likely, just like us in OUR sins (which He BECAME), that He found it much more difficult to completely focus upon God.

 

[crossnote]

Now, you are claiming Adam and Eve were steeped in darkness, and were hiding from God because they were wanting to do all the evil things they enjoyed doing? Wow.

Their PERCEPTION of God was altered with the "knowledge" they received, and they PERCEIVED themselves to be enemies of God "IN THEIR MIND" as it is said about us later on in the Bible, and as Jesus PERCEIVED Himself to be while hanging on the cross, confused by the cloak of sin hung on Him.

I posted 3 scriptures. Where did I say 'steeped in darkness'?

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Yes, I am. And when I sin I am glad I have an Advocate...I love to return to fellowship after I have sinned by confessing my sin...not my righteousness in Him

Jesus: I don't want to hear what you think you are; I want to hear what you are that made you do what you did.

 

[NayborBear]

Comes from us "stumbling about" (if you will) betweenst these two houses. "Beth-Aven" (house of nothing), and "Beth-El" (usually spelt Bethel) (house of God, which is eternal, btw). The "Garden of Eden Incident", as I likes to refer to it, reminds me of a line from a Joni Mitchell song: "Ya don't know watcha got....til, it's GONE!"

 

[Grace777x70]

Yes, I am. And when I sin I am glad I have an Advocate...I love to return to fellowship after I have sinned by confessing my sin...not my righteousness in Him

It comes in handy to believe what Jesus has done for us and that He has made us righteous in Him because of His blood being shed for our forgiveness. It's a good thing it's Christ's righteousness and not our own as you say!

I love this part below where Paul says that God "lavished" upon us His forgiveness! WOW!

Ephesians 1:7-8 (NASB)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace

[SUP]8 [/SUP] which He lavished on us. In all wisdom and insight

 

[crossnote]

I think He likely was for a while just PRIOR to quoting it, and then He quoted it to not only fulfil prophesy, but to also show hope to the people listening to Him. I think it is more than likely, just like us in OUR sins (which He BECAME), that He found it much more difficult to completely focus upon God.

Jesus confused?????????? Boy now I've heard it all. Is that the latest emergent church teaching?

 

[crossnote]

It comes in handy to believe what Jesus has done for us and that He has made us righteous in Him because of His blood being shed for our forgiveness. It's a good thing it's Christ's righteousness and not our own as you say!

I love this part below where Paul says that God "lavished" upon us His forgiveness! WOW!

Ephesians 1:7-8 (NASB)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace

[SUP]8 [/SUP] which He lavished on us. In all wisdom and insight

Agreed, it is a good thing. But when we have sinned, first things first...coming clean and confessing our sin. Hopefully we remain walking in the light and don't stray into dark areas to begin with.

 

[Grace777x70]

I think He likely was for a while just PRIOR to quoting it, and then He quoted it to not only fulfil prophesy, but to also show hope to the people listening to Him. I think it is more than likely, just like us in OUR sins (which He BECAME), that He found it much more difficult to completely focus upon God.

I too tend to believe that Jesus was viewing God from our own human perspective here when He said "my God, My God..why have you forsaken Me? ".

This is the first time Jesus called His Father ..G"od" when talking to Him. After sin was all put on Him - He went back and called Him Father again. "Into your hands I commit My spirit".

Probably a lot more going on here then meets the casual eye. ...

God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself. A lot of mystery happening here that we are trying to figure out with our human minds.

 

[Willie-T]

Jesus confused?????????? Boy now I've heard it all. Is that the latest emergent church teaching?

Well, you see, I believe Jesus became sin for us AS a man, and that sin probably had some of the same effect on Him that it does on us.

There are some people who like to imagine that Jesus was doing nothing more than walking around as God in a human body, and that nothing here on earth ever phased Him a bit. But I believe He experienced EVERYTHING that we experience (including being a bit confused about His identity and relationship when He BECAME sin), so that He could actually be a High Priest for the same mankind He willingly became for 33 years.

 

[Grace777x70]

Agreed, it is a good thing. But when we have sinned, first things first...coming clean and confessing our sin. Hopefully we remain walking in the light and don't stray into dark areas to begin with.

I agree..confessing sin is really good! I love it myself. My Father loves to wrap His arms around me and tells me about His Son - my Lord Jesus Christ and what He has done for us because of His great love.

There have been times with the Lord that His presence was like a heavy weight. I could feel His enormous power but the most overwhelming aspect of it was - His love.

 

[Grace777x70]

Well, you see, I believe Jesus became sin for us AS a man, and that sin probably had some of the same effect on Him that it does on us.

There are some people who like to imagine that Jesus was doing nothing more than walking around as God in a human body, and that nothing here on earth ever phased Him a bit. But I believe He experienced EVERYTHING that we experience (including being a bit confused about His identity and relationship when He BECAME sin), so that He could actually be a High Priest for the same mankind He willingly became for33 years.

The scripture does say that He was tempted in every way that we were. Sin definitely distorts our view of God, ourselves and others as well.

Hebrews 4:15 (KJV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

 

[NayborBear]

)

It comes in handy to believe what Jesus has done for us and that He has made us righteous in Him because of His blood being shed for our forgiveness. It's a good thing it's Christ's righteousness and not our own as you say!

I love this part below where Paul says that God "lavished" upon us His forgiveness! WOW!

Ephesians 1:7-8 (NASB)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace

[SUP]8 [/SUP] which He lavished on us. In all wisdom and insight

What you posted is very well, and, good, AND true! However, (the) Problems arise, when "languishing" (too long), in the "lavishing", which puts one in jeopardy, of believing "a" lie! The fear of the realization of this, and, that He WOULD, (and, has) is what )) "spurs" this old bear, onwards, and upwards! This "working philosophy", hasn't kilt me, yet......But, it has, made me stronger!

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

You have both "seeing his nakedness" and "it was probably the devil who told him"
I'll dump the 2nd and stick with Scripture...

Then the eyes of both were opened, and they knew that they were naked. And they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves loincloths.
(Gen 3:7)

Speculation is no way to build your case.

I had that thought too when I read this that the very act of disobedience is what opened their eyes, not anything satan said.

I very much liked the rest of this though! And it has been my experience that to know I was not condemned and to know what Jesus did for me in this respect, makes me be able to boldly and bravely face what He shows me is in my heart that needs to change. I don't have to run, hide, cover up, because He doesn't show it to me to condemn me. He shows it to me to...heal me of sicknesses, to make me see as He sees, these things in me.

I like it. Thanks for sharing it!

 

[Grace777x70]

)


What you posted is very well, and, good, AND true! However, (the) Problems arise, when "languishing" (too long), in the "lavishing", which puts one in jeopardy, of believing "a" lie! The fear of the realization of this, and, that He WOULD, (and, has) is what )) "spurs" this old bear, onwards, and upwards! This "working philosophy", hasn't kilt me, yet......But, it has, made me stronger!

I think I get what you are saying. I personally haven't found the fact of knowing of the lavish love and great salvation that is already provided for us in my Lord makes me want to go out and sin. It does the complete opposite for me. To me - knowing the grace of Christ in what He has already done no more makes me want to go out and sin then does teaching on love for our spouse makes us want to go to Ashley Madison.

 

[Willie-T]

I had that thought too when I read this that the very act of disobedience is what opened their eyes, not anything satan said.

I very much liked the rest of this though! And it has been my experience that to know I was not condemned and to know what Jesus did for me in this respect, makes me be able to boldly and bravely face what He shows me is in my heart that needs to change. I don't have to run, hide, cover up, because He doesn't show it to me to condemn me. He shows it to me to...heal me of sicknesses, to make me see as He sees, these things in me.

I like it. Thanks for sharing it!

Very astute observation.

 

[Magenta]

If lack of faith is sin then Jesus never lost His faith in God or became confused about what was happening as He hung on the cross fulfilling the very purpose He knew full well He came into the world to accomplish. I always figured Adam and Eve were ashamed when their eyes were opened after eating of the tree of knowledge of good and evil because they saw their evil in disobeying God... much as you said, Willie, in their seeing themselves, in their minds, as God's enemies.

 

[NayborBear]

I think I get what you are saying. I personally haven't found the fact of knowing of the lavish love and great salvation that is already provided for us in my Lord makes me want to go out and sin. It does the complete opposite for me. To me - knowing the grace of Christ in what He has already done no more makes me want to go out and sin then does teaching on love for our spouse makes us want to go to Ashley Madison.

Each one, according to their faith. This, is just what keeps me, "pressing on".

 

[Grace777x70]

I had that thought too when I read this that the very act of disobedience is what opened their eyes, not anything satan said.

I very much liked the rest of this though! And it has been my experience that to know I was not condemned and to know what Jesus did for me in this respect, makes me be able to boldly and bravely face what He shows me is in my heart that needs to change. I don't have to run, hide, cover up, because He doesn't show it to me to condemn me. He shows it to me to...heal me of sicknesses, to make me see as He sees, these things in me.

I like it. Thanks for sharing it!

Amen..well said..with "security" comes "maturity" as with any relationship. Knowing that there is no condemnation in Christ allows us to access the empowering aspect of grace to effect changes to our outward behavior as our minds get renewed to the life that is in Christ in us.

 

[Grace777x70]

Each one, according to their faith. This, is just what keeps me, "pressing on".

Amen! ...I hear ya'


I find this scripture below helpful when trying to live out our faith in some areas.

Romans 14:22 (NASB)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] The faith which you have, have as your own conviction before God. Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves.

 

[Willie-T]

If lack of faith is sin then Jesus never lost His faith in God or became confused about what was happening as He hung on the cross fulfilling the very purpose He knew full well He came into the world to accomplish.

I always figured Adam and Eve were ashamed when their eyes were opened after eating of the tree of knowledge of good and evil because they saw their evil in disobeying God... much as you said, Willie, in their seeing themselves, in their minds, as God's enemies.

Point #1: What did Jesus become on the cross? Sin. If He BECAME sin, would He not, then, have some difficulty maintaining FAITH? If not, then I suppose BECOMING sin had no real effect on Him? I have to believe those were more than just some words to fill up a page in the Bible. I have to believe that period in time was real life, in its dirtiest and most painful moments.

Point #2: Adam and Eve didn't tell God they hid because they had disobeyed. They didn't say they thought they were evil, either. They said they "WERE AFRAID" of Him. It seems, somehow, that they now saw someone who had ALWAYS been their "friend and companion" as someone to be afraid of. Someone who suddenly had "evil" in Him, and intended to do something to them... when, previously, He had never been anything but kind and loving toward them. That speaks to me of PERCEPTION being altered by a new and different kind of knowledge being in their minds. The knowledge of evil.