DeLorean

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J

jaybird88

Guest
#1
how many believe john delorean was set up? when i was a kid in the 80s there were all the delorean jokes and no one questioned he was a drug dealer.
john delorean was one of the youngest auto executives ever, cutting edge, ahead of his time, highly intelligent. these are not qualities you normally find with drug dealers. the drug deal meeting when he was busted, they never mentioned that john was told and believed he was meeting investors, not drug dealers. another thing they never mention, the amount of drugs at the hotel was huge, enough to put someone away for a very long sentence, a very serious drug offense, so big it would be tough for a good attorney to deal it down to small jail time. but john spent no time in prison or jail, all he had to do was one thing, agree to get out of the car business.
so the feds went to all this trouble to bust J Delorean and fight the good fight of war on drugs. and then all of a sudden they dont care about the good fight anymore as long as JD gets out of the car biz.
this was back in 82. has our government always been completely corrupt? i think yes
 

EarnestQ

Senior Member
Apr 28, 2016
2,588
310
83
#2
You make some good points, and I agree that your questions should be asked.

But, if I may, (respectfully) I invite you to spend more time formatting your text to make your points more clear. Also, correct punctuation goes a long way in communicating your ideas to the reader. And that is what you ultimately want; to clearly communicate your ideas and questions to the reader.

Your points are worth communicating, but they can be communicated even better if you wish.

Just a thought.
 
J

jaybird88

Guest
#3
You make some good points, and I agree that your questions should be asked.

But, if I may, (respectfully) I invite you to spend more time formatting your text to make your points more clear. Also, correct punctuation goes a long way in communicating your ideas to the reader. And that is what you ultimately want; to clearly communicate your ideas and questions to the reader.

Your points are worth communicating, but they can be communicated even better if you wish.

Just a thought.
sorry about that, when im writing i just zoom through, i used to run things through a word processor but then got to thinking, if people dont know the difference between John and john or don't and dont then they probable dont have anything worthwhile to add to the conversation anyway lol. its a message board, not a novel. no offense i promise.
 

EarnestQ

Senior Member
Apr 28, 2016
2,588
310
83
#4
sorry about that, when im writing i just zoom through, i used to run things through a word processor but then got to thinking, if people dont know the difference between John and john or don't and dont then they probable dont have anything worthwhile to add to the conversation anyway lol. its a message board, not a novel. no offense i promise.
None taken. Thank you.

I guess I just thought you made some really good points and I wanted more people to understand them clearly. If things are not immediately clear when one opens a webpage, people usually leave it within 2 seconds.

I was thinking about Delorean earlier today, so I clicked on the thread. But it was confusing exactly what you were trying to say, so I expect most people just clicked away instead of putting the effort into analyzing the big glob of text.

No offense intended, but I think there is a subconscious judgment of most people that when they see that a blob of text is not logical or organized, they assume the writer is not logical or organized. They then assume that what he says has little value. FWIW.

Since we are talking about it, after one makes statements like you have, it is also helpful for those who want to learn more if you include a reference or two where they can get more in depth info.

Good luck on your next post.
 
Oct 16, 2015
824
12
0
#5
John DeLorean

American car-maker and conman whose victims included the UK and the US governments Obituary: John DeLorean | US news | The Guardian
[HR][/HR]Almost everyone who had business dealings with car-maker John DeLorean, who has died aged 80, suffered either money losses in the millions, public vilification for the vanished cash, or both. Through all this turbulence, DeLorean remained unscathed: even if he did lose a fortune, he had not been entitled to it in the first place. An English judge said in 1992 that he would have liked to sentence the creator of the famous, gull-winged sports car that bore the DeLorean name to 10 years in prison for "barefaced, outrageous and massive fraud" over stolen UK government money. He could not because DeLorean had wriggled out of an extradition request to the US. All he ever spent behind bars was 10 days while he raised bail after his arrest in Los Angeles in 1982 on charges of smuggling cocaine worth $24m. His acquittal two years later, due to FBI entrapment, was one of several cases in which he eluded criminal conviction.


DeLorean was a world-class conman, despite a brilliant early engineering career at General Motors. Among his victims of fraud, embezzlement, tax evasion or defaulted loans, were the governments of Britain, the US, and Switzerland (which also failed to extradite him), Hollywood stars such as talk-show host Johnny Carson, who lost $1.5m, lawyers, and a California automotive inventor forced to pay him nearly $500,000 to buy back his own invention. Millions of pounds disappeared in the 1982 collapse of his sports car venture in Belfast, but DeLorean also looked after the pennies. While promoting it as the "ethical car", he changed a lunch receipt from the Beverly Wilshire hotel from $17 to $191.50, one court heard. Another court recorded testimony that DeLorean practised forging the signatures of Colin Chapman, the late founder of the Lotus car company and a partner in the DeLorean vehicle, and the late Sir Kenneth Cork, an accountant and his official receiver in Britain.

After his 1982 fall, DeLorean clung on to his $9m New York apartment until 1992 and kept his $4m, 434-acre New Jersey estate until March 2000. He did forfeit his southern Californian ranch to Howard Weitzman, his cocaine case defence counsel, who insisted on the deeds in advance. Even then, Weitzman never recovered $2m. His next defence lawyer, Mayer Morganroth of Michigan, who said he "got him off" in 40 different cases - including criminal embezzlement charges in Detroit - pursued DeLorean into the 21st century for over $4m unpaid fees, despite winning two court cases against his own client for the money.

A typical DeLorean touch was his conversion to fundamentalist Christianity in 1982 when he experienced the full-immersion baptism - in his exquisitely tiled swimming pool. He also changed the name of a semi-secret $9m company he owned in Utah, from Logan Manufacturing to "Ecclesiastes 9:10-11-12", a switch that added to the delay before hundreds of creditors in Britain, America, and France (from where he got the Renault engine for his car), could claim it.

Most of the money regained actually came via court cases against the international accounting firm, Arthur Andersen, which was sued by the British government for failing to spot fraudulence in the DeLorean Motor Company. The Labour government had agreed to fund it in 1978 for the 2,500 jobs it provided in Northern Ireland.

In 1999 Andersen settled out of court for $27.7m paid to the 260 creditors to avoid further litigation, in a case requiring testimony from the former prime minister, Margaret Thatcher, and several ex-Cabinet ministers. Two years earlier Andersen had also agreed to pay $35m to the UK government after admitting liability. The entire debacle earned Andersen a terrible press.

In the US, bankruptcy proceedings finally ended in May 2000 with creditors getting 91 cents to the dollar, more than they expected. But by this time many had either died or left the case. Then DeLorean started another venture. That summer he began selling "D=MC2" stainless steel watches for $3,495 each on the internet, offering as a contact an advertising firm in New York state. But as DeLorean's bankruptcy was still extant over the Morganroth debt, he was prohibited from pocketing any profits. Despite his shocking record of dishonesty, he retained a dedicated corps of American fans, mostly the 6,000-odd owners of the stainless steel cars from the 8,563 built in Belfast. They had become collectors' items.

DeLorean was born to a hard-drinking Romanian immigrant and Ford foundry worker and his Austrian-born wife, a factory worker, in Detroit. Tall and good-looking, John excelled at school and obtained an engineering degree from Lawrence Technical College. He later took his masters at the Chrysler Institute.

His career began with Packard, then an old-fashioned car maker facing extinction. But with a brilliant team of young engineers, DeLorean helped to revive it, and when he left in 1956 had registered 12 patents. He joined GM at their Pontiac division, also in trouble with a fusty image, and became well known in Detroit for creating the 1961 Tempest, a best-selling, fast, small car. In 1965 he launched the GTO for Pontiac, another speedy car with youth appeal and a hot seller, and at 40, DeLorean became the youngest vice-president in GM's history. He and his first wife, Elizabeth, lived in an English-style mansion and dined at the country club. By the late 1960s, he was in a mid-life crisis: he had plastic surgery to enhance his jaw.

DeLorean had become general manager of Chevrolet but had tired of corporate life. He then promised to stay out of the car business for a year in exchange for a lucrative Florida dealership but soon began investigating his stainless steel dream. The Italian designer Giorgetto Giugiaro offered a design, actually a discarded Porsche prototype. DeLorean assembled a team, formed a company, and the design became the vehicle that seduced the British government after DeLorean met with Northern Ireland officials in 1978. They signed an agreement 45 days later, DeLorean got $97m, and the government - and numerous others - spent over 20 years trying to retrieve it.

After his marriage to his first wife ended in 1969, he married 19-year-old Kelly Harmon. They divorced in 1972 and, after dating Ursula Andress and Tina Sinatra, he married a successful model, Cristina Ferrare, the following year. She split up with him shortly after the 1984 cocaine case.

· John Zachary DeLorean, engineer, car maker and conman, born January 6 1925; died March 19 2005
 

EarnestQ

Senior Member
Apr 28, 2016
2,588
310
83
#6
Thank you, Sinnerman, for providing all that info. I admit I was not very familiar with the actual facts of the situation.

I "presumed" that since he really did design and sell a "revolutionary" car, and because I saw him in an interview once, that he must have been relatively innocent and that there there "might" have been a "conspiracy" against him.

I guess I need to look into it a lot further before making any further presumptions.

Thank you.
 
Oct 16, 2015
824
12
0
#7
Thank you, Sinnerman, for providing all that info. I admit I was not very familiar with the actual facts of the situation.

I "presumed" that since he really did design and sell a "revolutionary" car, and because I saw him in an interview once, that he must have been relatively innocent and that there there "might" have been a "conspiracy" against him.

I guess I need to look into it a lot further before making any further presumptions.

Thank you.
You're welcome. See, it isn't so hard to spell correctly and use proper grammar, and provide a link to subject matter. It's something everyone should be doing, especially on the conspiracy forum, where it's so easy to make unsupported statements. I was happily avoiding this forum since a couple of people posting on it got banned. Immediately, the number of posts dropped by over 75%. That's a good thing, since medical professionals say that people who obsess about conspiracies tend to be lonely and isolated from others and it is unhealthy for them to spend all of their time looking for web sites that prey on gullible and lonely people who want to believe their government is to blame for all their problems. John Delorean is certainly an obscure person to bring up in 2016 and try to suggest he was something other than a con man. Perhaps all the good conspiracies have been so thoroughly debunked that people are now searching deeper and deeper into the archives of history to find something to blame our government on.

Here is what you want to look for on this forum. Someone who says something like;

has our government always been completely corrupt? i think yes
The word always means what? Sometimes? No. Most of the time? No. It means always. How corrupt? A little? Somewhat corrupt? No, completely corrupt. Yes, that is one of the things that identifies someone who is obsessed about conspiracies. They talk in absolutes. Then, you will notice this as well, they fail to produce any proof or evidence of the conspiracy they say is so apparent. Nothing. They will often say that there is such evidence, but that it is up to you to go and find it. They believe they can make an accusation and it is not their responsibility to prove that accusation. If you look through the conspiracy forum, you can easily spot these folks and know that they have no interest in proving anything. I'm not sure the best way to confront them. They simply do not respond to logic or show any willingness to provide evidence for what they believe. I hope this helps you. Let's hope that this forum continues to get less and less people coming on it to post kooky conspiracy theories.
 
J

jaybird88

Guest
#8
None taken. Thank you.

I guess I just thought you made some really good points and I wanted more people to understand them clearly. If things are not immediately clear when one opens a webpage, people usually leave it within 2 seconds.

I was thinking about Delorean earlier today, so I clicked on the thread. But it was confusing exactly what you were trying to say, so I expect most people just clicked away instead of putting the effort into analyzing the big glob of text.

No offense intended, but I think there is a subconscious judgment of most people that when they see that a blob of text is not logical or organized, they assume the writer is not logical or organized. They then assume that what he says has little value. FWIW.

Since we are talking about it, after one makes statements like you have, it is also helpful for those who want to learn more if you include a reference or two where they can get more in depth info.

Good luck on your next post.
no worries earnest and i get what your saying and it makes sense, but at the same time i have my own little personal philosophies, they may only make sense to me but its my way of encouraging others to express their uniqueness.

Jesus is the Son of the Lord Most High. im assuming we both agree this is a true statement about Jesus.


Jesus is theeee Son of the Lord Most High. i misspelled "the" does it change the truth about Jesus? thats the point i was making.
the knowledge is all i care about, the punctuation and grammar are like the wind. did you ever wonder why Einstein always wore the same suits or why Archimedes had to be reminded to take a bath? not that im like them guys just saying.
 
J

jaybird88

Guest
#9
I was thinking about Delorean earlier today, so I clicked on the thread. But it was confusing exactly what you were trying to say, so I expect most people just clicked away instead of putting the effort into analyzing the big glob of text.
was there something specific in the text that you didnt understand and i could give you more details?


Since we are talking about it, after one makes statements like you have, it is also helpful for those who want to learn more if you include a reference or two where they can get more in depth info.
here is a quote from the wiki page on JD

On October 19, 1982, DeLorean was charged with trafficking cocaine by the U.S. government, following a videotaped sting operation in which he was recorded by undercover Federal agents agreeing to bankroll cocaine smuggling operation. He had more than 59 pounds (27 kg) of cocaine (worth about $6.5 million) in a hotel near Los Angeles International Airport after arriving from New York, and the Federal Bureau of Investigation stated DeLorean was the "financier" to help the financially declining company in a scheme to sell 220 lb (100 kg), with an estimated value of $24 million.[25] The government was tipped off to DeLorean by confidential informant James Timothy Hoffman, a former neighbor, who reported to his FBI superiors that DeLorean had approached him to ask about setting up a cocaine deal; in reality, Hoffman had called DeLorean and suggested the deal (which DeLorean then accepted) as part of his efforts to receive a reduced sentence on a 1981 Federal cocaine trafficking charge that he was awaiting trial on. Hoffman (whose name was redacted on the original indictment) also stated that he was aware of DeLorean's financial troubles before he contacted him, and had heard him admit that he needed $17 million "in a hurry" to prevent DMC's imminent insolvency.


the writer looks to have gotten this info from official sources but lets take a closer look at the bold parts.
it says JD was going to be the banker for these guys, if your broke, like john was, the last thing your going to do is finance a new business venture, and where was he going to get the money to do the financing? he is broke!
next it says he had 59 lbs of cocaine, he had no drugs in his possession, the drugs were brought to the hotel by the undercover agents. a financier only supplies the capital, thats it, they dont take possession of the product. when the wall street banks got caught funding terrorist, did anyone think these banks were storing bombs in the basement?
and the FBI snitch, johns former neighbor. if your going to be involved in criminal activity would you want your neighbors involved? most criminals want their dirty business as far from their home as possible.
 

JosephsDreams

Senior Member
Dec 31, 2015
4,313
467
83
#10
John DeLorean

American car-maker and conman whose victims included the UK and the US governments Obituary: John DeLorean | US news | The Guardian
[HR][/HR]Almost everyone who had business dealings with car-maker John DeLorean, who has died aged 80, suffered either money losses in the millions, public vilification for the vanished cash, or both. Through all this turbulence, DeLorean remained unscathed: even if he did lose a fortune, he had not been entitled to it in the first place. An English judge said in 1992 that he would have liked to sentence the creator of the famous, gull-winged sports car that bore the DeLorean name to 10 years in prison for "barefaced, outrageous and massive fraud" over stolen UK government money. He could not because DeLorean had wriggled out of an extradition request to the US. All he ever spent behind bars was 10 days while he raised bail after his arrest in Los Angeles in 1982 on charges of smuggling cocaine worth $24m. His acquittal two years later, due to FBI entrapment, was one of several cases in which he eluded criminal conviction.


DeLorean was a world-class conman, despite a brilliant early engineering career at General Motors. Among his victims of fraud, embezzlement, tax evasion or defaulted loans, were the governments of Britain, the US, and Switzerland (which also failed to extradite him), Hollywood stars such as talk-show host Johnny Carson, who lost $1.5m, lawyers, and a California automotive inventor forced to pay him nearly $500,000 to buy back his own invention. Millions of pounds disappeared in the 1982 collapse of his sports car venture in Belfast, but DeLorean also looked after the pennies. While promoting it as the "ethical car", he changed a lunch receipt from the Beverly Wilshire hotel from $17 to $191.50, one court heard. Another court recorded testimony that DeLorean practised forging the signatures of Colin Chapman, the late founder of the Lotus car company and a partner in the DeLorean vehicle, and the late Sir Kenneth Cork, an accountant and his official receiver in Britain.

After his 1982 fall, DeLorean clung on to his $9m New York apartment until 1992 and kept his $4m, 434-acre New Jersey estate until March 2000. He did forfeit his southern Californian ranch to Howard Weitzman, his cocaine case defence counsel, who insisted on the deeds in advance. Even then, Weitzman never recovered $2m. His next defence lawyer, Mayer Morganroth of Michigan, who said he "got him off" in 40 different cases - including criminal embezzlement charges in Detroit - pursued DeLorean into the 21st century for over $4m unpaid fees, despite winning two court cases against his own client for the money.

A typical DeLorean touch was his conversion to fundamentalist Christianity in 1982 when he experienced the full-immersion baptism - in his exquisitely tiled swimming pool. He also changed the name of a semi-secret $9m company he owned in Utah, from Logan Manufacturing to "Ecclesiastes 9:10-11-12", a switch that added to the delay before hundreds of creditors in Britain, America, and France (from where he got the Renault engine for his car), could claim it.

Most of the money regained actually came via court cases against the international accounting firm, Arthur Andersen, which was sued by the British government for failing to spot fraudulence in the DeLorean Motor Company. The Labour government had agreed to fund it in 1978 for the 2,500 jobs it provided in Northern Ireland.

In 1999 Andersen settled out of court for $27.7m paid to the 260 creditors to avoid further litigation, in a case requiring testimony from the former prime minister, Margaret Thatcher, and several ex-Cabinet ministers. Two years earlier Andersen had also agreed to pay $35m to the UK government after admitting liability. The entire debacle earned Andersen a terrible press.

In the US, bankruptcy proceedings finally ended in May 2000 with creditors getting 91 cents to the dollar, more than they expected. But by this time many had either died or left the case. Then DeLorean started another venture. That summer he began selling "D=MC2" stainless steel watches for $3,495 each on the internet, offering as a contact an advertising firm in New York state. But as DeLorean's bankruptcy was still extant over the Morganroth debt, he was prohibited from pocketing any profits. Despite his shocking record of dishonesty, he retained a dedicated corps of American fans, mostly the 6,000-odd owners of the stainless steel cars from the 8,563 built in Belfast. They had become collectors' items.

DeLorean was born to a hard-drinking Romanian immigrant and Ford foundry worker and his Austrian-born wife, a factory worker, in Detroit. Tall and good-looking, John excelled at school and obtained an engineering degree from Lawrence Technical College. He later took his masters at the Chrysler Institute.

His career began with Packard, then an old-fashioned car maker facing extinction. But with a brilliant team of young engineers, DeLorean helped to revive it, and when he left in 1956 had registered 12 patents. He joined GM at their Pontiac division, also in trouble with a fusty image, and became well known in Detroit for creating the 1961 Tempest, a best-selling, fast, small car. In 1965 he launched the GTO for Pontiac, another speedy car with youth appeal and a hot seller, and at 40, DeLorean became the youngest vice-president in GM's history. He and his first wife, Elizabeth, lived in an English-style mansion and dined at the country club. By the late 1960s, he was in a mid-life crisis: he had plastic surgery to enhance his jaw.

DeLorean had become general manager of Chevrolet but had tired of corporate life. He then promised to stay out of the car business for a year in exchange for a lucrative Florida dealership but soon began investigating his stainless steel dream. The Italian designer Giorgetto Giugiaro offered a design, actually a discarded Porsche prototype. DeLorean assembled a team, formed a company, and the design became the vehicle that seduced the British government after DeLorean met with Northern Ireland officials in 1978. They signed an agreement 45 days later, DeLorean got $97m, and the government - and numerous others - spent over 20 years trying to retrieve it.

After his marriage to his first wife ended in 1969, he married 19-year-old Kelly Harmon. They divorced in 1972 and, after dating Ursula Andress and Tina Sinatra, he married a successful model, Cristina Ferrare, the following year. She split up with him shortly after the 1984 cocaine case.

· John Zachary DeLorean, engineer, car maker and conman, born January 6 1925; died March 19 2005
Typical American "success" story.
 

Lynx

Folksy yet erudite
Aug 13, 2014
26,663
8,908
113
#11
Gotta admit though, the design was ahead of its time. Even if a lot of the cars had to be pushed off the boat they were shipped over on...

And it's too bad they had to go with such a slug of a motor. Snazzy shell, not much get-up-and-go.

And how about that carpet that bleeds its color all over your shoes? That was some trick, eh?
 
U

Ultimatum77

Guest
#12
IDK but I absolutely loved his designs on pontiac's GTO and firebird....those are some sweet looking cars and inspired the modern GTO and firebird before pontiac got discontinued...didn't much care for his namesake cars though like the Back to the future deloreans were meh.....
 
Oct 16, 2015
824
12
0
#13
In hindsight, many of the GM vehicles were designed by men who were short sighted. Massive gas guzzling engines that fell apart far too soon. We owned a Pontiac Bonneville with a huge 455 four barrel V-8. My junior high football coach had a yellow GTO with a big spoiler. My history teacher had a corvette.

The new GM is doing amazing things. My wife drives a Volt. She averages about 140 mpg, with the first 40 miles all electric. The Bolt will be out soon and offer 200 miles on a charge. GM is making a beautiful new Malibu hybrid rated at just under 50 mpg. They still offer hotrods like the Cadillac CTS-V, with the corvette engine. They are not stuck in the past, other than being stuck with what could be $100 billion in legacy costs for unsustainable pensions. The unions really backed them into a dark corner. Delorean was a playboy who lived outside the law. Reminds me of the GM people who failed to pay for windshield wiper technology and ended up losing a ton of money in court. Or the GM people who knew the Cobalt ignition was flawed and decided to ignore it and let people die. Very costly to shareholders. But they seem to be on the right course these days.
 

Lynx

Folksy yet erudite
Aug 13, 2014
26,663
8,908
113
#14
Ah but there is one better than all those - Elio. If they can make it off the ground they will build a sweet little car.

I have been watching and hoping and even praying a little that their business model will succeed.
 
Oct 16, 2015
824
12
0
#15
Ah but there is one better than all those - Elio. If they can make it off the ground they will build a sweet little car.

I have been watching and hoping and even praying a little that their business model will succeed.
The Volkswagen Polo, with the 1.4 liter diesel engine, is rated at 83.1 MPG. American car companies should be able to make sub-compacts with similar gas mileage.
 

AllenW

Senior Member
Apr 20, 2016
1,450
70
48
#16
how many believe john delorean was set up? when i was a kid in the 80s there were all the delorean jokes and no one questioned he was a drug dealer.
john delorean was one of the youngest auto executives ever, cutting edge, ahead of his time, highly intelligent. these are not qualities you normally find with drug dealers. the drug deal meeting when he was busted, they never mentioned that john was told and believed he was meeting investors, not drug dealers. another thing they never mention, the amount of drugs at the hotel was huge, enough to put someone away for a very long sentence, a very serious drug offense, so big it would be tough for a good attorney to deal it down to small jail time. but john spent no time in prison or jail, all he had to do was one thing, agree to get out of the car business.
so the feds went to all this trouble to bust J Delorean and fight the good fight of war on drugs. and then all of a sudden they dont care about the good fight anymore as long as JD gets out of the car biz.
this was back in 82. has our government always been completely corrupt? i think yes
Yes, corrupt.
Where are those DeLoreans?
I think I'd like to have one these days.
 

AllenW

Senior Member
Apr 20, 2016
1,450
70
48
#17
[video]http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?endYear=2017&showcaseOwnerId= 0&makeCode1=DELOREAN&startYear=1981&firstRecord=0& showcaseListingId=0&mmt=%5BDELOREAN%5B%5D%5B%5D%5D &listingId=403937825&Log=0[/video]
 

Lynx

Folksy yet erudite
Aug 13, 2014
26,663
8,908
113
#18
The Volkswagen Polo, with the 1.4 liter diesel engine, is rated at 83.1 MPG. American car companies should be able to make sub-compacts with similar gas mileage.
Where did you get that figure? According to google results the efficiency for a standard diesel Polo is 20 kmpl, or 40.0429 mpg.

Though that IS pretty good compared to the "efficient" cars here in the USA.
 
Oct 16, 2015
824
12
0
#19
Where did you get that figure? According to google results the efficiency for a standard diesel Polo is 20 kmpl, or 40.0429 mpg.

Though that IS pretty good compared to the "efficient" cars here in the USA.
2016 Volkswagen Polo Running Costs, MPG, Economy, Reliability, Safety | What Car?

Fuel economy and CO2 emissions are also impressive on most models, at least those with petrol engines. The 1.2 petrol that we recommend managed 47.4mpg in our hands. That’s not far behind the 56.2mpg we achieved in the 89bhp 1.4 diesel, a model with an official claimed consumption of 83.1mpg. Their good economy, superior refinement and lower purchase prices are why, if you’re a private buyer, you should stick with petrol power in the Polo.
 
J

jaybird88

Guest
#20
Yes, corrupt.
Where are those DeLoreans?
I think I'd like to have one these days.
haha, i always thought they were kinda cool ever since i saw back to the future when i was like 12.