CONDEMNATION IS THE ROOT CAUSE

[God4me]

Please could tell me what you have done to be forgiven holy and free? And what u think I must do?

The first thing you must do, is believe the whole Bible, and that includes 1 Jn 1: 8--10.
I have been forgiven, because I have repented of any sins, Jesus died for the whole world, and has forgiven everyone in the world, But it's when one repents that their sins are remitted, Lk 24: 47. Acts 2: 38.

1 Jn 1: 9, says, if we don't agree with god that we have sinned, and repent, we won't be forgiven, cleansed or righteous.
The false grace teachers are playing Russian roulette.

 

[God4me]

you need to quote scripture to prove a point , or it just a rant.

for example

licence to sin. was that spoken to a jew or a gentile.

Here are scriptures that the false grace teachers don't believe.
1 Jn 1: 8--10.
1 Pet 1: 15--16.
2 Tim 2: 19--21.
1 Jn 3: 3.
And the reason why they won't accept those scriptures, is, Because they say they don't have to repent or confess sins.
And they say living a holy life, is being legalistic and putting oneself back under the law, and rejecting grace.

So you can see how false the false grace teachers are.

 

[Grace777x70]

You false grace teachers know very well that your teachings gives you the licence to sin.
Plus, you are in sin, and will always be in sin, Because if you don't confess your sins, [Which you don't], you aren't forgiven, cleansed or righteous. see 1 Jn 1: 9.


What do you do when you sin??, Please tell me.

Despite the fact that we say about sin - you continually say the opposite ..ok....I can't help that if you change what people say.

You can accuse me of being in sin all you want but I will believe what the New Covenant says about being built upon better promises and the blood of Jesus which speaks of better things in the New Covenant.

Here is what I do when I sin..

I love to kneel quickly and tell my Father how I trust in Him..how what I did was wrong..sometimes I use the word sin..sometimes I don't..I think that is irrelevant...I run to my Father and tell Him how that His Son..my Lord is my life..my righteousness,..Jesus Blood has secured my redemption and forgiveness of sins....I confess what God says about me...I tell Him I love Him and trust in Him...

I have not asked for forgiveness in order to be forgiven for quite some time now...but I always talk with my Lord about what I do or don't do...

You know ...He always loves on me and tells me He loves me and that He is my life and strength. Sometimes I have felt a warm liquid like feeling of pure love fall on me..and I just sit there in His presence and weep..I can't move a muscle..He is so mighty in power yet His love and total acceptance is the most overwhelming aspect of His presence.


To me..all sin is relational. All sin is a failure to see the life of Christ in me. I am ignorant of His life in me. To me..most outward sin is just a "fruit" of the real sin.

For example..If I steal something..that is a sin..but the real sin behind that is the failure to recognize my Father will take care of me. I am operating in the flesh. I want to take things into my own hand and "do" things. ( I don't steal....well I haven't since I was a kid...not that I can remember anyway..it's just an example )

The other part is when you see how horrid it really is when we mess up....sin....transgress.... whatever term you want to use.

..what I see is my unbelief in the goodness and love of my Father and Lord Jesus for me. That is the horrid part because I know that is not Their character nor is it really my true nature now and what He has made me in Christ.

 

[Zmouth]

Here are scriptures that the false grace teachers don't believe.
1 Jn 1: 8--10.
1 Pet 1: 15--16.
2 Tim 2: 19--21.
1 Jn 3: 3.
And the reason why they won't accept those scriptures, is, Because they say they don't have to repent or confess sins.
And they say living a holy life, is being legalistic and putting oneself back under the law, and rejecting grace.

So you can see how false the false grace teachers are.

So if those who don't accept your law that they have to repent are else they are playing Russian roulette, then it sounds like you're the one spinning the cylinder without a clue of what's in the chamber.

So let me guess, under your law you obtained salvation as a gift by your faith in God? So how did you obtain your faith without works since it is written in Ephesians 2:8- 9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

So if your faith didn't come by your works then how did you obtain if? Did you obtain it my search or inquiry are were you just naturally born with it as a sinner?

 

[God4me]

Despite the fact that we say about sin - you continually say the opposite ..ok....I can't help that if you change what people say.

You can accuse me of being in sin all you want but I will believe what the New Covenant says about being built upon better promises and the blood of Jesus which speaks of better things in the New Covenant.

Here is what I do when I sin..

I love to kneel quickly and tell my Father how I trust in Him..how what I did was wrong..sometimes I use the word sin..sometimes I don't..I think that is irrelevant...I run to my Father and tell Him how that His Son..my Lord is my life..my righteousness,..Jesus Blood has secured my redemption and forgiveness of sins....I confess what God says about me...I tell Him I love Him and trust in Him...

I have not asked for forgiveness in order to be forgiven for quite some time now...but I always talk with my Lord about what I do or don't do...

You know ...He always loves on me and tells me He loves me and that He is my life and strength. Sometimes I have felt a warm liquid like feeling of pure love fall on me..and I just sit there in His presence and weep..I can't move a muscle..He is so mighty in power yet His love and total acceptance is the most overwhelming aspect of His presence.


To me..all sin is relational. All sin is a failure to see the life of Christ in me. I am ignorant of His life in me. To me..most outward sin is just a "fruit" of the real sin.

For example..If I steal something..that is a sin..but the real sin behind that is the failure to recognize my Father will take care of me. I am operating in the flesh. I want to take things into my own hand and "do" things. ( I don't steal....well I haven't since I was a kid...not that I can remember anyway..it's just an example )

The other part is when you see how horrid it really is when we mess up....sin....transgress.... whatever term you want to use.

..what I see is my unbelief in the goodness and love of my Father and Lord Jesus for me. That is the horrid part because I know that is not Their character nor is it really my true nature now and what He has made me in Christ.

So you do believe 1 Jn 1: 9, and the reason is, you admit that you sin, and that's what the Greek meaning for confession is.
But you are still in sin and unrighteousness, as you don't repent.

 

[God4me]

Despite the fact that we say about sin - you continually say the opposite ..ok....I can't help that if you change what people say.

You can accuse me of being in sin all you want but I will believe what the New Covenant says about being built upon better promises and the blood of Jesus which speaks of better things in the New Covenant.

Here is what I do when I sin..

I love to kneel quickly and tell my Father how I trust in Him..how what I did was wrong..sometimes I use the word sin..sometimes I don't..I think that is irrelevant...I run to my Father and tell Him how that His Son..my Lord is my life..my righteousness,..Jesus Blood has secured my redemption and forgiveness of sins....I confess what God says about me...I tell Him I love Him and trust in Him...

I have not asked for forgiveness in order to be forgiven for quite some time now...but I always talk with my Lord about what I do or don't do...

You know ...He always loves on me and tells me He loves me and that He is my life and strength. Sometimes I have felt a warm liquid like feeling of pure love fall on me..and I just sit there in His presence and weep..I can't move a muscle..He is so mighty in power yet His love and total acceptance is the most overwhelming aspect of His presence.


To me..all sin is relational. All sin is a failure to see the life of Christ in me. I am ignorant of His life in me. To me..most outward sin is just a "fruit" of the real sin.

For example..If I steal something..that is a sin..but the real sin behind that is the failure to recognize my Father will take care of me. I am operating in the flesh. I want to take things into my own hand and "do" things. ( I don't steal....well I haven't since I was a kid...not that I can remember anyway..it's just an example )

The other part is when you see how horrid it really is when we mess up....sin....transgress.... whatever term you want to use.

..what I see is my unbelief in the goodness and love of my Father and Lord Jesus for me. That is the horrid part because I know that is not Their character nor is it really my true nature now and what He has made me in Christ.

So you do believe 1 Jn 1: 9, and the reason is, you admit that you sin, and that's what the Greek meaning for confession is.
But you are still in sin and unrighteousness, as you don't repent.

 

[God4me]

So if those who don't accept your law that they have to repent are else they are playing Russian roulette, then it sounds like you're the one spinning the cylinder without a clue of what's in the chamber.

So let me guess, under your law you obtained salvation as a gift by your faith in God? So how did you obtain your faith without works since it is written in Ephesians 2:8- 9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

So if your faith didn't come by your works then how did you obtain if? Did you obtain it my search or inquiry are were you just naturally born with it as a sinner?

I'm the one who is giving scriptures, it's not my law or my opinions.

 

[Grace777x70]

So you do believe 1 Jn 1: 9, and the reason is, you admit that you sin, and that's what the Greek meaning for confession is.
But you are still in sin and unrighteousness, as you don't repent.

I and other people have already told you what we believe about 1 John 1:9 and it does not mean that we sin all the time and think sinning is ok and just do whatever we want......that is in your own mind that you made up in your religious belief system.

If you want to call us unrighteous then I'm glad that Jesus' blood speaks of better things then your own words of judgment to people.

Here it is again.

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/137655-condemnation-root-cause-9.html#post2669423

And here..and others too but I think this is just a waste of time..

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/137655-condemnation-root-cause-10.html#post2669625

 

[BenFTW]

That doesn't make sense.


You say sorry because you want forgiveness.


Only difference is that God with His love and grace forgives us,while it's more uncertain if people will be so,loving.

Our forgiveness isn't dependent upon God's present mercy, but Jesus' once and for all sacrifice for all time for all sin. God in His mercy sent Jesus, the Son of God, to die on our behalf and get rid of the thing that alienated us from God. VVe are now reconciled.

In the present moment, now, our forgiveness isn't dependent upon our actions, but the blood of Christ that cleanses us from all sin. You must remember, God is faithful and you are in a covenant with Him. Your part is to believe the Gospel and His part is to extend grace and forgiveness through His Son. You are in a covenant of grace and not law.

In actuality, and by His own doing, He has made it to where He must forgive you because Jesus is the propitiation for the sins of the world. God has made a covenant through Jesus with man, that if you will believe in His Son He will remember your sins no more and Jesus will impute His righteousness to you. You are justified before God. Your sin no longer alienates and condemns you, because its penalty has been paid through Jesus' sacrifice. You are reconciled to God, by His will and doing.

 

[BenFTW]

Yes of course we a knowledge sin for what it is.. and we thank God for his forgiveness to remind us there is no condemnation.. But we are already cleansed.. it's like saying does Jesus need to die everytime I sin? Wow.. That would of been about 10000000000 times for me just this year alone...

There is actually a verse that speaks about this. Its in Hebrews. Check it out...

Hebrews 9:25-26 King James Version (KJV)

25Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others;
26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

VVhy would have Jesus suffered since the foundation of the world? For the very reason that He decided to pay sin's price and penalty, and fresh sin meant fresh blood for remission. Now, consider His blood isn't like the blood of bulls and goats, not able to take away sin. His blood isn't common. He sacrificed Himself once and for all, for all sin. His blood, unlike the common blood of bulls and goats, is a one time sacrifice with everlasting effects.

Hebrews 10:4 King James Version (KJV)


4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

Hebrews 10:9-14 King James Version (KJV)

9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

 

[God4me]

I and other people have already told you what we believe about 1 John 1:9 and it does not mean that we sin all the time and think sinning is ok and just do whatever we want......that is in your own mind that you made up in your religious belief system.

If you want to call us unrighteous then I'm glad that Jesus' blood speaks of better things then your own words of judgment to people.

Here it is again.

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/137655-condemnation-root-cause-9.html#post2669423

And here..and others too but I think this is just a waste of time..

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/137655-condemnation-root-cause-10.html#post2669625

1 Jn 1: 9, Does mean we sin, and because you admit that you sin, proves that you believe 1 Jn 1: 9.

You can't get away from 1 Jn 1: 8--10, that proves you are still in your sins and you aren't cleansed or righteous, as you don't repent.

 

[Grace777x70]

1 Jn 1: 9, Does mean we sin, and because you admit that you sin, proves that you believe 1 Jn 1: 9.

You can't get away from 1 Jn 1: 8--10, that proves you are still in your sins and you aren't cleansed or righteous, as you don't repent.

Nonsense...I live a holier life now then I ever had my whole life by believing what Jesus has done for me by grace through faith. The law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set me free from the law of sin and death.

If you want to say I'm still in my sins - I'm still going to believe in Jesus' blood and not your judgment on me or on any others.

Romans 14:4 (NASB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] Who are you to judge the servant of another? To his own master he stands or falls; and he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.

 

[BenFTW]

Nonsense...I live a holier life now then I ever had my whole life by believing what Jesus has done for me by grace through faith. The law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set me free from the law of sin and death.

If you want to say I'm still in my sins - I'm still going to believe in Jesus' blood and not your judgment on me or on any others.

Romans 14:4 (NASB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] Who are you to judge the servant of another? To his own master he stands or falls; and he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.

And even then, there is a transition process. People grow, and it is a process of sanctification. People seem to forget the Corinthians, carnal Corinthians, and the way that the apostle Paul spoke to them (as saints of God).

 

[JennaLeanne]

And even then, there is a transition process. People grow, and it is a process of sanctification. People seem to forget the Corinthians, carnal Corinthians, and the way that the apostle Paul spoke to them (as saints of God).

Amen.. Maybe that should be your next thread Ben... Teach me something

 

[Stephen63]

Let's be perfectly clear on something..... There's a HUGE difference between the grace of the Bible & the hypergrace doctrine that's sending its followers to hell.

It's obvious that many of them don't study the whole Bible, for if they did, they would see other scriptures that don't line up with hypergrace.

The HG teachers spend a lot of time telling stories & using worldly examples instead of quoting several scriptures to teach their disciples. In the end, they know nothing, ever learning, but never coming to the knowledge of the truth.

I totally depend on God's grace; I'm saved BY GRACE THROUGH FAITH. That means God's grace is sufficient & active faith is necessary to get me through the day.

I love God's grace..... that's why I'm so indignant with this hypergrace stuff..... replacing true grace & saying next to nothing about faith, as if it's not needed anymore.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Hyper grace teaches a no obedience required kind of faith.=false doctrine.

Romans 1:5
By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:

 

[gb9]

Hyper grace teaches a no obedience required kind of faith.=false doctrine.

Romans 1:5
By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:

I am not " hyper grace ", do not follow or had even heard of joseph prince until he was mentioned on here, but I will say that many people that do not like grace teachers is that grace teachers do not pound and lead with works, works, and hellfire.

the TRUTH is i.s.i.t., that grace saves, good works and obedience are results of salvation, not maintainers or causes. if you or anyone else doubts or questions that, then that is a you problem, not a truth problem. grace-faith-works is the only Biblical truth.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

the TRUTH is i.s.i.t., that grace saves, good works and obedience are results of salvation, not maintainers or causes. if you or anyone else doubts or questions that, then that is a you problem, not a truth problem. grace-faith-works is the only Biblical truth.

What you said there sounded pretty good except for that "maintain" part. That is also what I have heard from other hyper grace believers, that obedience is not required to "maintain" salvation. That is like saying I do not need to "remain" faithful to the Lord in order to be saved, or I do not need to "abide" in the words of Jesus to be saved. That way of thinking is based on OSAS doctrine that believes you cannot lose salvation no matter what, so why one would one see any need to "maintain" on the strait and narrow path of righteousness if it is not needful?

That way of thinking is like giving a green light to one who is unlearned that it is ok to keep on sinning.

 

[JennaLeanne]

What you said there sounded pretty good except for that "maintain" part. That is also what I have heard from other hyper grace believers, that obedience is not required to "maintain" salvation. That is like saying I do not need to "remain" faithful to the Lord in order to be saved, or I do not need to "abide" in the words of Jesus to be saved. That way of thinking is based on OSAS doctrine that believes you cannot lose salvation no matter what, so why one would one see any need to "maintain" on the strait and narrow path of righteousness if it is not needful?

That way of thinking is like giving a green light to one who is unlearned that it is ok to keep on sinning.

Since I have understood the grace of our Lord and my position in him I have never been more fruitful... Strongholds have come tumbling down and the sinful things I couldn't stop doing are no longer a battle for me.. That's grace. Not my obedience but the fruit of my blood brought position in Christ....

The focus of sin = Bondage The focus on Jesus=Freedom

 

[God4me]

Nonsense...I live a holier life now then I ever had my whole life by believing what Jesus has done for me by grace through faith. The law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set me free from the law of sin and death.

If you want to say I'm still in my sins - I'm still going to believe in Jesus' blood and not your judgment on me or on any others.

Romans 14:4 (NASB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] Who are you to judge the servant of another? To his own master he stands or falls; and he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.

Your not free, you only think you are.
You aren't forgiven, cleansed or righteous. Sent 1 Jn 1: 9.

Ando to male it worse, you know, (Or should know) that you have to repent, but you never do.