Brexit - Do we stay or do we go

[JimmieD]

The British people FINALLY decided enough was enough and made a stand.

Not that I care what you guys decide to do with your lives over there (personally I would vote to leave too), but really, only 37% of your people voted to leave (voter turnout * results = .52 *.72 = .374) and those people were generally older and ere highly concentrated in England and Wales. The people of Scotland and Northern Ireland seem to disagree. Looking in from a distance, it doesn't look to me like anyone has spoken with a unified voice, as if the "British people have decided." It looks to me like a very divided voice. It looks as if there exists an unchecked political process in Britain where a slim majority of voters that showed up to the polls have made an irreversible decision for everyone else.

I do wish you guys all the best though and hope everything works out.

EU referendum: The result in maps and charts - BBC News

 

[MadParrotWoman]

Not that I care what you guys decide to do with your lives over there (personally I would vote to leave too), but really, only 37% of your people voted to leave (voter turnout * results = .52 *.72 = .374) and those people were generally older and ere highly concentrated in England and Wales. The people of Scotland and Northern Ireland seem to disagree. Looking in from a distance, it doesn't look to me like anyone has spoken with a unified voice, as if the "British people have decided." It looks to me like a very divided voice. It looks as if there exists an unchecked political process in Britain where a slim majority of voters that showed up to the polls have made an irreversible decision for everyone else.

I do wish you guys all the best though and hope everything works out.

EU referendum: The result in maps and charts - BBC News

That is how democracy works. The majority that bothered to vote (if they didn't vote they didn't care enough) in the UK as a whole (the Scots have already had their chance to leave the rest of the UK) voted "out". Northern Ireland can also vote to leave the UK if that is the wish of the majority. It's called democracy. It make no difference if it was a slim majority it was still a majority.

 

[JimmieD]

That is how democracy works.

I think there ought to be a line between democracy and "mob rule" by having some sort of "safety valves" in place to put in a check, just to make sure that a society isn't succumbing to a mob rule, especially on irreversible decisions. It's not like large numbers of people are immune to making bad decisions, holding wrong premises, or making decisions for wrong reasons.

I think you guys might have something in place though. If I'm correct, your Parliament must now vote to repeal legislation and EU treaties and such before you can legally separate. I'm pushing my limits on British specific politics at this point though.

The majority that bothered to vote (if they didn't vote they didn't care enough)

I don't know that people not showing up to polls is a license to tell them what to do with their lives or make irreversible decisions for them. It may be a license to tell them they're dumb for not showing up.

in the UK as a whole (the Scots have already had their chance to leave the rest of the UK) voted "out".

Why can't the Scots have another vote? Maybe they changed their mind due to changing circumstances? This is what happens with unchecked political processes.

Northern Ireland can also vote to leave the UK if that is the wish of the majority. It's called democracy. It make no difference if it was a slim majority it was still a majority.

I think people have to be careful of slim majorities. It's not as if the majority can't be tyrannical on a minority of people. A majority of people, especially a slim one (or a 37% "majority"), seems like shaky grounds for dictating irreversible decisions for other people.

 

[JimmieD]

Of course you could always say, "that's exactly what Brussels does," and I would be forced to agree.

 

[Mitspa]

I think there ought to be a line between democracy and "mob rule" by having some sort of "safety valves" in place to put in a check, just to make sure that a society isn't succumbing to a mob rule, especially on irreversible decisions. It's not like large numbers of people are immune to making bad decisions, holding wrong premises, or making decisions for wrong reasons.

I think you guys might have something in place though. If I'm correct, your Parliament must now vote to repeal legislation and EU treaties and such before you can legally separate. I'm pushing my limits on British specific politics at this point though.



I don't know that people not showing up to polls is a license to tell them what to do with their lives or make irreversible decisions for them. It may be a license to tell them they're dumb for not showing up.



Why can't the Scots have another vote? Maybe they changed their mind due to changing circumstances? This is what happens with unchecked political processes.



I think people have to be careful of slim majorities. It's not as if the majority can't be tyrannical on a minority of people. A majority of people, especially a slim one (or a 37% "majority"), seems like shaky grounds for dictating irreversible decisions for other people.

A liberal upholds democracy when it suites their deviant purpose..when the people speak against their insanity..its called "mob" rule ... Its called a "election" and the people decide who and how they are ruled.

 

[Desdichado]

That is how democracy works. The majority that bothered to vote (if they didn't vote they didn't care enough) in the UK as a whole (the Scots have already had their chance to leave the rest of the UK) voted "out". Northern Ireland can also vote to leave the UK if that is the wish of the majority. It's called democracy. It make no difference if it was a slim majority it was still a majority.

Yeah, functionally you are correct. We hear this every election about how the people's will was not made manifest. Honestly, the folks who stay at home are either victims of a terrible turnout operation or while they are inclined toward one position, they don't care enough about the issue to make a difference in the near or distant future. Why? They are either indifferent, ambivalent, or pliable.

This was a fair and representative election with an extremely high voter turnout by American standards. That's part of the reason why the vote for "out" surprised me.

 

[MadParrotWoman]

I think there ought to be a line between democracy and "mob rule" by having some sort of "safety valves" in place to put in a check, just to make sure that a society isn't succumbing to a mob rule, especially on irreversible decisions. It's not like large numbers of people are immune to making bad decisions, holding wrong premises, or making decisions for wrong reasons.

I think you guys might have something in place though. If I'm correct, your Parliament must now vote to repeal legislation and EU treaties and such before you can legally separate. I'm pushing my limits on British specific politics at this point though.



I don't know that people not showing up to polls is a license to tell them what to do with their lives or make irreversible decisions for them. It may be a license to tell them they're dumb for not showing up.



Why can't the Scots have another vote? Maybe they changed their mind due to changing circumstances? This is what happens with unchecked political processes.



I think people have to be careful of slim majorities. It's not as if the majority can't be tyrannical on a minority of people. A majority of people, especially a slim one (or a 37% "majority"), seems like shaky grounds for dictating irreversible decisions for other people.

If people don't bother voting how can we know their wishes? The way it was is the fairest way - I don't see what other measures could have been taken. Everyone had plenty of notice of election day, I made sure I was able to vote - I even made sure my son was able to vote even though I knew he would vote against me.

Scotland will have another chance to vote themselves out of the UK - soon it would seem.

I think it has been fair all round really tbh. It was a small majority but it was decisive. Now we need to move on.

 

[MadParrotWoman]

Oh and by the way, if the remainiacs (new word the media is using) REALLY don't want to live in a post EU Britain there is still time for them to move to an EU country.

I could say "don't let the door hit you on the bum on your way out" but I won't because I'm a Christian

 

[Desdichado]

Oh and by the way, if the remainiacs (new word the media is using) REALLY don't want to live in a post EU Britain there is still time for them to move to an EU country.

I could say "don't let the door hit you on the bum on your way out" but I won't because I'm a Christian

It would be funny though if a good share of them decide to move to France only to witness the near inevitable Frexit.

 

[Desdichado]

Yes, you heard it here first. France is the next to leave. That will be even more damning for the EU. Britain became an important player in the later stages of the EU's development, but France is central.

 

[trofimus]

Not that I care what you guys decide to do with your lives over there (personally I would vote to leave too), but really, only 37% of your people voted to leave (voter turnout * results = .52 *.72 = .374) and those people were generally older and ere highly concentrated in England and Wales. The people of Scotland and Northern Ireland seem to disagree. Looking in from a distance, it doesn't look to me like anyone has spoken with a unified voice, as if the "British people have decided." It looks to me like a very divided voice. It looks as if there exists an unchecked political process in Britain where a slim majority of voters that showed up to the polls have made an irreversible decision for everyone else.

I do wish you guys all the best though and hope everything works out.

EU referendum: The result in maps and charts - BBC News

Yeah, I would also want to have some "specified majority" for decisions of this type, that will change the course of history for some country for decades.

I am afraid the Great Britain has ended and will become smaller and smaller in todays world...

 

[trofimus]

Yes, you heard it here first. France is the next to leave. That will be even more damning for the EU. Britain became an important player in the later stages of the EU's development, but France is central.

I think many politicians and countries want to blame EU for their own stupidity and bad decisions.

For example, France will always have problems with muslims, in EU or outside. Because its their own stupid politics that caused this, not Brussels.

Yeah, they will be able to use bulbs again and other small things. Surely will solve all their problems... populism.

 

[Depleted]

Unlike most Americans I converse with the British are staunchly protective of the NHS. it is a much loved institution. I for one do not trust insurance companies, can they be trusted to pay up? Trusting insurance companies makes me nervous.

Regarding all the hullabaloo and scare mongering now doing the rounds...the reason everyone is panicking is the fact that this result was so unexpected. things will be volatile for a while until people get used to the idea of Britain standing alone. It's not just that Britain left the EU but the prime minister resigned and it looks like the leader of the opposition will be toppled. It will take a few months to settle down. It was always a decision for the future benefit of the UK.

American answering if insurance companies pay up.

Does it matter? By the time we're talking "pay up," whatever happened already happened, so that's a fight between doctor and insurance company. Not the patient.

Examples: My last visit to my pain specialist he had me pee in a cup, so I did. (First time he had me do that, so thought it was weird, but nothing to hide, especially since he is the one who gives me the scripts to the oxycodone.) My particular insurance company only allows one routine lab work per year. That was 11 months after my yearly, so the insurance company wrote me to tell me they won't pay for it. Not a problem. I called the doctor's office and told them I'm not paying it either. Doctor's problem.

Hubby and I both have two "insurances." One is the national plan for anyone who is retired or disabled -- Medicare. The other is a supplement, specifically because Medicare is our government in their very best lawyerese complicated regulation debacle best! (Trying to figure out if "it's covered" it's like trying to improve on Einstein's theories. Maybe someone can understand the theories in the long-form somewhere, but most of us don't have a clue what it means. Sort of like our tax code that tells businesses to report wages semiweekly. What's semiweekly -- twice a week or every two weeks? I don't know how the dictionary answers that but the IRS told me that means once every two weeks.) Somehow, if we end up in the hospital, we pay $100 a day for the first ten days, then we pay 20% of of the bill until it reaches some ever changing number, and then we pay it all, and then when it gets catastrophic, which comes under not-even-rich-people-could-afford-that-much, they go back to paying a portion. Not bad, if it's routine stuff, but John just came home after SEVEN MONTHS, at least one surgery that cost three times the amount we paid for our house, plus quite a few other serious problems. If everyone on our block (and their are 50 houses on our block, plus a couple of businesses), gave all the money they made every year to pay that back, we still couldn't pay that bill off for a decade. So, we have supplement.

Supplement for me is an insurance company.

Supplement for him was the Veterans Affair. (VA.) We went to the VA's ER when he was having the heart attack. He needed stents, but they don't do that, so they outsource with the Hospital of the University of Pennsylvania. (HUP.) Three surgeries and three near misses later, (he got pneumonia, kidney failure, and a serious infection so bad the pneumonia felt like a cake walk), they sent him back to the VA.

"Outsourced," as in the VA paid that bill, but HUP wanted more money so they charge Medicare first. (VA first. Medicare second. Spent hours on the phone correcting them on that one.) Within a month the bills started coming to me. The first bill for the part not paid by Medicare was $8000! That was just for the first night -- the stents put in.

So I called HUP and told them I'm not paying, so that's their problem. (That's when I found out they went Medicare first, so corrected that.)

I haven't paid anything. I'm still getting notified by Medicare that they want money back from HUP. I've received over 200 envelopes from Medicare (who does NOT call itself Medicare on its envelopes) giving inform about what I don't have to worry about, one item at a time. An X-ray would have cause us $1.96, if the VA didn't pay for it. He got an X-ray every day for a month. One letter at a time to tell me it's not my problem.

Never was my problem other than our government waste a lot of time and money telling me over and over again, it's not my problem.

But, that's how you can trust insurance companies. If they deny, whatever needed doing was already done. And given the agreement was between the insurance company and the medical provider, it's their problem. Not the patient.

As for "preexisting conditions" the medical companies used to refuse to take on? The feds made a law (Obamacare) that said they can't do that anymore. So, naturally that cost is passed along to the consumer. Kind of why I don't trust government either.

 

[Utah]

Not that I care what you guys decide to do with your lives over there (personally I would vote to leave too), but really, only 37% of your people voted to leave (voter turnout * results = .52 *.72 = .374) and those people were generally older and ere highly concentrated in England and Wales. The people of Scotland and Northern Ireland seem to disagree. Looking in from a distance, it doesn't look to me like anyone has spoken with a unified voice, as if the "British people have decided." It looks to me like a very divided voice. It looks as if there exists an unchecked political process in Britain where a slim majority of voters that showed up to the polls have made an irreversible decision for everyone else.

I do wish you guys all the best though and hope everything works out.

EU referendum: The result in maps and charts - BBC News

Trust me, it's in your best interest to care what socialist elites are doing. Seeing the response of the people has caused me to do the jig.

 

[Utah]

Yeah, I would also want to have some "specified majority" for decisions of this type, that will change the course of history for some country for decades.

I am afraid the Great Britain has ended and will become smaller and smaller in todays world...

It's funny, I never hear liberals complain about a solid majority when their candidates win political office or implement another socialist program. Seems as though it's always nanny nanny poo poo when liberals win with a close majority.

 

[trofimus]

It's funny, I never hear liberals complain about a solid majority when their candidates win political office or implement another socialist program. Seems as though it's always nanny nanny poo poo when liberals win with a close majority.

Who are those liberals you are talking about?

But even the elections are for 5 years only. Even the president is for 5-10 years in most countries and his election has several steps and cycles.

But decision of this type, that will change the country for decades... one round, 37% of population, done, finished, irreversible.

If you got my point.

 

[JimmieD]

A liberal upholds democracy when it suites their deviant purpose

I'm not even sure what this is supposed to mean. Are you insinuating that I am a "liberal" with "deviant purposes?" Just be ready to embarrass yourself if you want to continue down this line.

And did you even bother reading where I said that if I were a Brit, I would have voted to leave? Probably not.

..when the people speak against their insanity..its called "mob" rule ... Its called a "election" and the people decide who and how they are ruled.

Have "the people" really spoken in this case though? I guess 37% of them living primarily in cities in England and Wales certainly did. Do the people of Scotland and Northern Ireland also have the right to decide how they are ruled or is there some feature of nature requiring them to abide by what voters in England and Wales decide for them?

Tossing your apparent assumptions about me aside, I totally agree that people have the right to self governance. I'm talking about the particulars of this instance though.

In any case, the collective "people" neither speak nor decide. Only individuals speak and decide.

 

[Mitspa]

Yeah, I would also want to have some "specified majority" for decisions of this type, that will change the course of history for some country for decades.

I am afraid the Great Britain has ended and will become smaller and smaller in todays world...

So the left wing loons can get GB in a mess like that and give away the peoples right to self-government on a narrow vote ..but democracy is not good enough to get them out? Insanity!

And England ruled the world for almost a thousand years...I think they can figure out how to be a independent nation apart from the insanity of the EU

 

[trofimus]

So the left wing loons can get GB in a mess like that and give away the peoples right to self-government on a narrow vote ..but democracy is not good enough to get them out? Insanity!

And England ruled the world for almost a thousand years...I think they can figure out how to be a independent nation apart from the insanity of the EU

As I said earlier, even the presidency or elections have several rounds and are for 5-10 years. The step that will change country for decades is more simple than that, that is just strange.

England had territories all over the world, that is not ruling the world. Many European countries had territories as well, Spanish would won this contest, I would say.

Thousand years? You sure?


But England can do whatever they want, I just said that it is strange that less important things have more control mechanisms than the more important things. Thats all, no need to quarrel.

 

[prodigal]

day-AFTER-vote
most-googled-question-from-uk
what-is-the-EEC?

God-help-us??