PATRIOTISM IS BIBLICAL, But Is It Dying In AMERICA?

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Vdp

Banned
Nov 18, 2015
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The question is , should we obey God or man?

When you put your Country first, you are obeying men.

We have seen the USA follow men and not God.

We are not to be concerned or worried about Patriotism. We are to be worried and concerned by the decline of Christianity in the USA today.

Look at our leaders. None of them follow God, not even one.

Because of this we will lose the next war against us.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
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The question is , should we obey God or man?

When you put your Country first, you are obeying men.

We have seen the USA follow men and not God.

We are not to be concerned or worried about Patriotism. We are to be worried and concerned by the decline of Christianity in the USA today.

Look at our leaders. None of them follow God, not even one.

Because of this we will lose the next war against us.
You forget who HE was talking to when HE inspired Paul to write Romans 13:1-7. How godly were the Caesars? I have never advocated putting anyone before GOD, but that was NOT SUBJECT I WAS DISCUSSING IN THIS THREAD.
 
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VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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I'm not entirely sure what you're trying to say here, but I think you may have taken my words out of context.







Now, on to your comments.



Christians should always obey the Laws of God when they come into direct conflict with the laws of the land. If there is no conflict, then a Christian should obey the laws of the land. But the laws of the land cannot and should not supercede the laws of God. As Americans, we cannot blindly obey and respect the laws of America.

My point was to demonstrate this. If we believe that as American Christians we should honor and respect our country no matter what (even if it means going to war with other nations), than we should also completely endorse Christians in other countries doing the same. Should we support the idea that Christians in North Korea, or China, or Syria should fully respect, honor and obey the laws of their land no matter what, even if it comes to attacking America?

Let's throw a hypothetical out here. What if China conquers America? Should we fully honor, respect and obey all laws of the land China sets up?



No, I don't do "what I want." I obey God's laws first and foremost, then American law when it doesn't come into conflict with God.



I agree with you completely here.



I don't know what you're asking.

I REPEAT, that is not a bridge I will ever have to cross. I will be KIA before I surrender my weapon or my Country.

[FONT=&quot]I only regret that I have but one life to lose for my country. - Nathan Hale[/FONT]
 
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VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
4,615
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The question is , should we obey God or man?

When you put your Country first, you are obeying men.

We have seen the USA follow men and not God.

We are not to be concerned or worried about Patriotism. We are to be worried and concerned by the decline of Christianity in the USA today.

Look at our leaders. None of them follow God, not even one.

Because of this we will lose the next war against us.

THE QUESTION IS PHRASED WRONG:

Should we not Obey GOD and HIS COMMAND to Submit to every ordinance of man for the LORD's sake. By the way that includes the ordinance of the posted speed limit.
 
Dec 10, 2015
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I would give my life up for God! If i was given a choice of rejecting God and living or keeping God and lose my live, i would keep God as my Savior.

I would never lose my life for any country!

God never will ask us to give our lives for any country.

Its a fool who dies for his country but its a wise man who gives his life for God.
 
Jan 24, 2012
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JESUS Himself was a Patriot. He made numerous Patriotic Statements about about ISRAEL, as well as JERUSALEM.

Our Forefathers, wrote Patriotism in the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, the Pledge of Allegiance, and many other famous American Documents. WHAT HAPPENED? WHY IS PATRIOTISM DYING OUT?

Ezekiel 34:30-31 (NRSV)
[SUP]30 [/SUP] They shall know that I, the LORD their God, am with them, and that they, the house of Israel, are my people, says the Lord God.
[SUP]31 [/SUP] You are my sheep, the sheep of my pasture and I am your God, says the Lord God.

Psalm 81:13 (NKJV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] "Oh, that My people would listen to Me, That Israel would walk in My ways!

Matthew 2:6 (HCSB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] And you, Bethlehem, in the land of Judah, are by no means least among the leaders of Judah: because out of you will come a leader who will shepherd My people Israel.”

Matthew 23:37 (NKJV)
[SUP]37 [/SUP] "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing!

Matthew 5:35 (NASB)
[SUP]35 [/SUP] or by the earth, for it is the footstool of His feet, or by Jerusalem, for it is THE CITY OF THE GREAT KING.


See, JESUS remained Patriotic, even when leaders were evil.

I went to nothing BUT Public Schools, because we could not afford Private Schools, HOWEVER:

When I went to School the Ten Commandment were Framed and Hung in the main hallway of the School.

When I went to School saying the Pledge of Allegiance, was done every morning in School.

When I went to School the School Library, in the Main Study Hall, had four copies of the Bible.

When I went to School, we could pray in School, some of the Teachers lead the Prayers, especially our COACH.

When I went to School, we sang some hymns both in Boys Glee and in the HS Choir.

When I went to School, we had Baccalaureate Services every year, where all the local Ministers gave short sermons.

When LIBERALS pushed there anti-God agenda onto the rest of America, PATRIOTISM was the NEXT thing they attacked.

NOW anti-Patriotic attitudes are openly and proudly displayed,

Patriots are made fun of or ridiculed.

Disrespect for the FLAG is Blatant, and CHEERED.

ANTI-USA protesters and slogans are spreading like a CANCER.

Romans 13:1-8 (NKJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God.
[SUP]2 [/SUP] Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] For he is God's minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God's minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] Therefore you must be subject, not only because of wrath but also for conscience' sake.
[SUP]6 [/SUP] For because of this you also pay taxes, for they are God's ministers attending continually to this very thing.
[SUP]7 [/SUP] Render therefore to all their due: taxes to whom taxes are due, customs to whom customs, fear to whom fear, honor to whom honor.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law.

1 Peter 2:13-17 (NKJV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] Therefore submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake, whether to the king as supreme,
[SUP]14 [/SUP] or to governors, as to those who are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers and for the praise of those who do good.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] For this is the will of God, that by doing good you may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men--
[SUP]16 [/SUP] as free, yet not using liberty as a cloak for vice, but as bondservants of God.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Honor all people. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the king.


I REPEAT:
WHAT HAPPENED? ? ?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I want this debate to be open to EVERYONE, and EVERY topic Related to Patriotism.

I expect PATRIOTS and NON-PATRIOTS to join in.

I know this will lead to a heated debate, so CHECK YOURSELF and PUT A REIGN ON YOUR TONGUE. We do not WANT ANY ARGUMENTS. Stop at the level of Heated Debate.

Hint:
Zealously STANDING UP FOR YOUR BELIEFS is a Heated Debate.
Name Calling is an Argument.
Lol oh so it's wrong to be unpatriotic and you MUST obey your government...unless...unless you're America and you break away from Britain...then it's all cool. If you wear an American flag, you are an UNPATRIOTIC TRAITOR to your country (Britain).

This horrible argument is the very reason why your choices are Trump or Hillary. THIS THREAD! THIS THREAD IS THE SOLE REASON why things are the way they are. It's because people are soft and doughy and think that legality=morality.

It wasn't always like this. People knew right from wrong and FOUGHT for what was right. People trolled evil men by dumping their TEA into bodies of water.
 
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J

jaybird88

Guest
THE QUESTION IS PHRASED WRONG:

Should we not Obey GOD and HIS COMMAND to Submit to every ordinance of man for the LORD's sake. By the way that includes the ordinance of the posted speed limit.
Proverbs 16:12
It is an abomination to kings to do evil, for the throne is established by righteousness.

the bible has many examples of it not being right for corrupt leaders to establish laws for no other reason for the benefit of the few at the expense of the masses.
 
Jan 24, 2012
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Well...Now that we have ended this silly thread...Lets move on to more civilized talk.

A couple weeks ago, I found an amazing book called Anarchy in the Age of Dinosaurs. So far it has been a pretty fantastic read. It is geared more toward the ideologies of Folk Anarchy rather than Anarcho-capitalism. But the idea is basically the same.

http://72.52.202.216/~fenderse/Anarchy.pdf
 

KohenMatt

Senior Member
Jun 28, 2013
4,060
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I REPEAT, that is not a bridge I will ever have to cross. I will be KIA before I surrender my weapon or my Country.

I only regret that I have but one life to lose for my country. - Nathan Hale
And if China conquers the US and you are KIA, what would you say about your children (If you have any)? Grandchildren? Are they to obey China's regime over the US?
 
Feb 26, 2015
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How can one be Patriotic for a Nation that saw nothing wrong with mass MURDER just for the rich to steal land for their greed?

You do know VCO the USA was built on the MURDER of innocent Native Americans! Built on the backs of Blacks FORCED into slavery just for the rich people!

No! I cannot be Patriotic for MURDER and SLAVERY!
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
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I would give my life up for God! If i was given a choice of rejecting God and living or keeping God and lose my live, i would keep God as my Savior.

I would never lose my life for any country!

God never will ask us to give our lives for any country.

Its a fool who dies for his country but its a wise man who gives his life for God.
Thanks for proving my point, Patriotism is dying out in America.

Why do you suppose, the over whelming Majority of the men and women, who died for our Country were VOLUNTEERS.

Like I told you before PaulMack, you are too young to understand. YOU would have to LOSE your freedoms, and then once again fight to recover those Freedoms, before you would EVER UNDERSTAND.

[video=youtube;OFtNVEbasOo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFtNVEbasOo[/video]
 
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VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
4,615
113
I would give my life up for God! If i was given a choice of rejecting God and living or keeping God and lose my live, i would keep God as my Savior.

I would never lose my life for any country!

God never will ask us to give our lives for any country.

Its a fool who dies for his country but its a wise man who gives his life for God.

When GOD humbles you and drops you to your knees, REMEMBER you owe every one of these men an apology.


[video=youtube;mWB5RXnAecE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWB5RXnAecE[/video]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yP9jpPA51c
 
Jun 13, 2014
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Jesus was no patriot. However those who surrounded him dreamt and drooled over Him becoming this King who would liberate Israel from Roman occupation. Isnt it like for us as Americans to want Jesus to be a patriot because we are one. All His passions were God direct and God focused and Kingdom driven. Patriotism exalts the people not the God. In which pride says"I did this" or" we did this" robbing God of His glory.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
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is it really that hard to write out killed in action, took me a second. guess im to old school. thanks matt . . . i mean KM.

KIA is the common Military Expression for Killed in Action. I am somewhat surprised you did not know that.

MIA is Missing In Action.

POW is Prisoner of War.

DOW is Died of Wounds

ETC.

Military Memorial Bracelets, KIA Bracelets, Honor Our Military Members KIA

Marines To Allow Wearing of KIA Bracelets - ABC News

List of WWII KIA and Died of Wounds


LOOK at that last site, and you will see how the Military makes a list of those who fell in Battle, every name will say KIA or DOW at the end.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
4,615
113
Jesus was no patriot. However those who surrounded him dreamt and drooled over Him becoming this King who would liberate Israel from Roman occupation. Isnt it like for us as Americans to want Jesus to be a patriot because we are one. All His passions were God direct and God focused and Kingdom driven. Patriotism exalts the people not the God. In which pride says"I did this" or" we did this" robbing God of His glory.
Matthew 23:37 (NASB)
[SUP]37 [/SUP] "Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling.

Isaiah 51:4-5 (NKJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] "Listen to Me, My people; And give ear to Me, O My nation: For law will proceed from Me, And I will make My justice rest As a light of the peoples.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] My righteousness is near, My salvation has gone forth, And My arms will judge the peoples; The coastlands will wait upon Me, And on My arm they will trust.

Psalm 20:4-5 (NASB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] May He grant you your heart's desire And fulfill all your counsel!
[SUP]5 [/SUP] We will sing for joy over your victory, And in the name of our God we will set up our banners. May the LORD fulfill all your petitions.

As they crossed the Red Sea on dry ground, GOD showed HIS PATRIOTISM for ISRAEL and not for the Egyptian army pursuing them.

As DAVID slew GOLIATH, GOD showed His Patriotism for ISRAEL.

As Israel marched around Jericho, GOD showed His Patriotism for ISRAEL.

As GIDEON defeated the Midianites with only a few men, GOD showed HIS Patriotism of Israel.

Shall I go on?

You will have an EXTREMELY DIFFICULT TIME finding ONE Israelite who does not think GOD IS PATRIOTIC towards Israel.


 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
4,615
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How can one be Patriotic for a Nation that saw nothing wrong with mass MURDER just for the rich to steal land for their greed?

You do know VCO the USA was built on the MURDER of innocent Native Americans! Built on the backs of Blacks FORCED into slavery just for the rich people!

No! I cannot be Patriotic for MURDER and SLAVERY!
Ecclesiastes 3:1-11 (HCSB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] There is an occasion for everything, and a time for every activity under heaven:
[SUP]2 [/SUP] a time to give birth and a time to die; a time to plant and a time to uproot;
[SUP]3 [/SUP] a time to kill and a time to heal; (When do you allow a time to HEAL, and a time to FORGIVE as you have been forgiven? You want GOD to forget your sins, but are UNWILLING to FORGET the sins of others from the past. WHEN do you start to live up to the standards of the GOD you claim to follow? WHEN do you Praise GOD for the Union Troops who defeated the South, and thus ended slavery? When do you drop the stones, because Jesus said, "Let him who is without sin, cast the first stone." WHEN do you start to help building something worth being Patriotic about? WHEN do you learn to respect the GOOD that has been done, even if it is by the few, instead of wallowing in bitterness and hated of the PAST? WHEN?)
a time to tear down and a time to build;
[SUP]4 [/SUP] a time to weep and a time to laugh; a time to mourn and a time to dance;
[SUP]5 [/SUP] a time to throw stones and a time to gather stones; a time to embrace and a time to avoid embracing;
[SUP]6 [/SUP] a time to search and a time to count as lost; a time to keep and a time to throw away;
[SUP]7 [/SUP] a time to tear and a time to sew; a time to be silent and a time to speak;
[SUP]8 [/SUP] a time to love and a time to hate; a time for war and a time for peace.
[SUP]9 [/SUP] What does the worker gain from his struggles?
[SUP]10 [/SUP] I have seen the task that God has given people to keep them occupied.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] He has made everything appropriate in its time. He has also put eternity in their hearts, but man cannot discover the work God has done from beginning to end.

Numbers 21:1-3 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] When the Canaanite, the king of Arad, who lived in the Negev, heard that Israel was coming by the way of Atharim, then he fought against Israel and took some of them captive.
[SUP]2 [/SUP] So Israel made a vow to the LORD and said, "If You will indeed deliver this people into my hand, then I will utterly destroy their cities."
[SUP]3 [/SUP] The LORD heard the voice of Israel and delivered up the Canaanites; then they utterly destroyed them and their cities. Thus the name of the place was called Hormah.

Deuteronomy 20:16-17 (NKJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] But of the cities of these peoples which the LORD your God gives you as an inheritance, you shall let nothing that breathes remain alive,
[SUP]17 [/SUP] but you shall utterly destroy them: the Hittite and the Amorite and the Canaanite and the Perizzite and the Hivite and the Jebusite, just as the LORD your God has commanded you,

While you meditate on what I said, please listen to Amazing Grace in the Sioux language:

[video=youtube;OkL6ODtoPUk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkL6ODtoPUk[/video]

If that song is not enough, then listen to this Lakota Healing Song, while you meditate some more:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3-la0C19Z4

Over four hundred thousand, American Troops gave their lives, to stop the Satanic EVIL of AXIS POWERS, including Adolf Hitler and his Nazi Party. AND YOU REMAIN UNGRATEFUL:



And DO NOT forget the REALITY of Hitler's DEATH CAMPS, and you remain ungrateful that our Troops played a MAJOR part in stopping and liberating those survivors of the NAZI SS DEATH CAMPS:



Now do you suppose, GOD knowing all things and what Satan was up to, allowed this NATION TO COME INTO BEING so that he could use the USA to HELP stop the death toll at around 6,000,000 Jews and 5,000,000 POWs?

407,300 U.S. Troops lost their lives to STOP THAT EVIL.
383,700 British Troops lost their lives to STOP THAT EVIL.
210,000 French Troops lost their lives to STOP THAT EVIL.
42,000 Canadian Troops lost their lives to STOP THAT EVIL.
39,700 Australian Troops lost their lives to STOP THAT EVIL.
etc.
etc.

And you remain ungrateful.