B
Recently I, as a Christian, confronted with this thought: can we or can we not lose our salvation? But then I reached another question: what is truly meant by “salvation” and do we truly have it in our possession?
Let’s answer the second question. I want to bring quotations from the Bible (Bible in basic English), not my own ideas, not something I just heard from others. I analyzed them logically, after hearing a preach ( from a great preacher) about this, and I came to agree with that logic.
Firstly I want to bring 1 Peter 1, verses 4-9: “And a heritage fair, holy and forever new, waiting in heaven for you. Who, by the power of God are kept, through faith, for that salvation, which will be seen at the last day. You have cause for great joy in this, though it may have been necessary for you to be troubled for a little time, being tested in all sorts of ways. So that the true metal of your faith, being of much greater value than gold (which, though it comes to an end, is tested by fire), may come to light in praise and glory and honor, at the revelation of Jesus Christ: To whom your love is given, though you have not seen him; and the faith which you have in him, though you do not see him now, gives you joy greater than words and full of glory: For so you have the true end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.”
Reading this verses you find something shockingly obvious, salvation as something which is kept through the power of God, through faith -but here comes the dilemma- kept to be seen (seen-that means something reachable, present, and right before your eyes) in the last day. So is not as many would think, a salvation that we already own rather than something we will never experience on Earth. Then going to the last verse, verse nine, we can see again, we have a repetition of this idea but in other words. Salvation of our souls comes only at the end of our faith/life of faith, after experiencing physical death.
Secondly we have verses 23-25 from Romans chapter 8: “And not only so, but we who have the first fruits of the Spirit, even we have sorrow in our minds, waiting for the time when we will take our place as sons, that is, the salvation of our bodies. For our salvation is by hope: but hope which is seen is not hope: for who is hoping for what he sees? But if we have hope for that which we see not, then we will be able to go on waiting for it.
(Now here Paul talks about the salvation of our body and above it talks about the salvation of our soul. As an assumption of my own, there is only one salvation going in two directions, renewing our body and soul, at the same time. We cannot receive the salvation of your soul if we have within us the Adams/Original sin, it’s like a job half-done. While we walk on earth we are condemned to live in this wicked body, just like Paul talks in Romans chapter 7. The soul is interconnected with the body, and one without the other cannot exist (speaking from our empirical existence from Earth). But so it will be in Heaven, for Paul talks about it in 1 Corinthians 15 verses 34-49 “44.It is planted a natural body; it comes again as a body of the spirit. If there is a natural body, there is equally a body of the spirit.” So continuing my assumption, we will receive a new body, and a soul liberated from the burdening weight of sin at the same time. I don’t know if I made myself clear, but this was a deviation from the relevant ideas for this topic.)
Going back to our second point we see that salvation is seen as hope. And we all know that hope is reserved for the future. Paul says “our salvation is by hope” and then explains the meaning of hope, something you can’t see as previously in 1 Peter 1:5, something that is waiting for you, and which have to be awaited with patience. Nobody asks of you to be patient if you don’t have to wait that long. Our whole Christian life is a long period of time to wait for salvation, a life represented by fights to remain in the grace of the Father “Take up God's instruments of war, so that you may be able to keep your position against all the deceits of the Evil One. For our fight is not against flesh and blood, but against authorities and powers, against the world-rulers of this dark night, against the spirits of evil in the heavens.” Ephesians 6:11-12.
So then what happens to us when we meet God? Are we not saved? Yes, we are, God through Christ’s blood forgives us, covers our sins and redeems us, but for a salvation kept in heaven for us. As long as we remain on the righteous path (the end of the path is the point where salvation awaits), we have accessibility to the salvation of Christ revealed to us in the afterlife.
A preacher once made an illustration:
a)We are born again;
I’ll give some examples of what ‘born-again’ means and how do we engage in this process:
John 3:1-6: “Jesus said to him, Truly, I say to you, Without a new birth no man is able to see the kingdom of God. Nicodemus said to him, How is it possible for a man to be given birth when he is old? Is he able to go into his mother's body a second time and come to birth again? Jesus said in answer, Truly, I say to you, If a man's birth is not from water and from the Spirit, it is not possible for him to go into the kingdom of God. That which has birth from the flesh is flesh, and that which has birth from the Spirit is spirit.”-here Jesus talks about one term on which we can be part of His Kingdom, to be born again by the Spirit and by water (which is the baptize). The renewal of the spirit is something that can’t be seen as we can observe in the following sentence/verses from this chapter 7-8: “Do not be surprised that I say to you, It is necessary for you to have a second birth. The wind goes where its pleasure takes it, and the sound of it comes to your ears, but you are unable to say where it comes from and where it goes: so it is with everyone whose birth is from the Spirit.
John 1:12-13: “To all those who did so take Him, however, He gave the right of becoming children of God-that is, to those who had faith in His name; Whose birth was from God and not from blood, or from an impulse of the flesh and man's desire.”-now we see that we are born again by fath/belief in Him.
John 3:14-16: “As the snake was lifted up by Moses in the waste land, even so it is necessary for the Son of man to be lifted up: So that whoever has faith may have in him eternal life. For God had such love for the world that he gave his only Son, so that whoever has faith in him may not come to destruction but have eternal life.”- from this verse I understand that only by believing in Jesus Christ and His cross we can receive eternal life. And when we believe the Holy Spirit comes and we become new beings by spirit.
b) We are in a process of sanctification our whole life;
Romans 8: 21-22: “That all living things will be made free from the power of death and will have a part with the free children of God in glory. For we are conscious that all living things are weeping and sorrowing in pain together till now. And not only so, but we who have the first fruits of the Spirit, even we have sorrow in our minds, waiting for the time when we will take our place as sons, that is, the salvation of our bodies.”- here Paul talks about the liberation from the death (Adamic sin) within ourselves. In King James version of the Bible ‘sorrowing’ is replaced with ‘travaileth in pain’ which refers to a process of childbirth labor, that only can refer to a continuously process of rebirth –if I can say so- of renewing ourselves until we receive the salvation of our body. And we all know that whilst we are here, in this body we can’t be set free from the consequences of the Original transgression of Adam and Eve.
1 Peter 2:1-2: “So putting away all wrongdoing, and all tricks and deceits and envies and evil talk, Be full of desire for the true milk of the word, as babies at their mothers' breasts, so that you may go on (in other translation it wrote ‘to grow towards salvation’) to salvation;”- from this I understand that we, as new-born Christians need to feed in order to grow, to arrive at a state of Cristian maturity; here we can see a clear separation from the act of reborn and receiving the salvation, where salvation can be achieved only at maturity, when the ‘baby becomes a man’; and we as humans grow in wisdom, in knowledge until we die; let’s be sincere as christians to admit that we fail sometimes and we never fully achieve a state of perfection.
Romans 6:22: “But now, being free from sin, and having been made servants to God, you have your fruit in that which is holy, and the end is eternal life.”- this is a bit tricky- in my language this verse is translated like this: instead of ‘you have your fruit in that which is holy’ I have ‘ you have the fruit of sanctification’ not holy/holiness which is a state but as a process; I know it’s hard to digest this but I am not saying you are not saint in the eyes of God, because we all know that when we meet God, through Jesus Christ we are without sin, because He gives as forgiveness, for our past, present and future sins; but we can still do wrong, we can still slip but we always have to come back and do our best to remain under His guidance in a continuing process of sanctification.
James 3:2: “For we all go wrong in a number of things.” James 5:16:“ So then, make a statement of your sins to one another, and say prayers for one another so that you may be made well (/in other translation is ‘healed’). The prayer of a good man is full of power in its working.” –here James addresses other christians that supposedly united with God and Jesus Christ, and includes himself in the category of people who do wrongly in numerous things on the path of righteousness; then you could say that those people who do wrong are not righteous in the eyes of the Lord, but then we see “the prayer of a good man is full of power in its working” which drives me to a conclusion, you can be good/righteous but still do little wrongs, you repent them and in prayer you ask healing from those wicked things.
c) After death we meet our salvation- for this I already brought up the verses from Romans 8 and 1 Peter 1:4-9.
Now I have discovered four kinds of people (I am not saying this is an absolute truth):
1) The ones that never meet God- for this category I don’t need to say anything.
2) The ones that met God but diverted from Him: a) 2 Peter 1:9-10: “For the man who has not these things is blind, seeing only what is near, having no memory of how he was made clean from his old sins. For this reason, my brothers, take all the more care to make your selection and approval certain; for if you do these things you will never have a fall.” In this verses we can see clear that you can lose your way; ‘having no memory of how he was made clean from his old sins’ and we all know that in order to be forgiven we need to meet God and His power and be made new trough Christ’s blood; then the final sentence consists into an advice to strengthen their choice and approval (of what?- to enter God’s Kingdom), to never fall, as in they CAN fall and fail.
b) 2 Timothy 2:12-13: “If we go on to the end, then we will be ruling with Him: if we say we have no knowledge of Him, then He will say he has no knowledge of us: If we are without faith, still He keeps faith, for He will never be untrue to Himself.”- here again, Paul teaches that we have to pass on a road with a final destination, ‘if’ we go on to the end we will arrive there, ‘if’ we divert we will not.
c) Joshua 1: 5-7: “While you are living, all will give way before you: as I was with Moses, so I will be with you; I will not take away my help from you or give you up. Take heart and be strong; for you will give to this people for their heritage the land which I gave by an oath to their fathers. Only take heart and be very strong; take care to do all the law which Moses my servant gave you, not turning from it to the right hand or to the left, so that you may do well in all your undertakings.” –here we can see the Hand of God, He remaining faithfully, but than we have our own part in receiving salvation ‘take heart and be strong’ ‘take care to do all…’ don’t turn to the right or left, go straight ahead and do your tasks. Another illustration for this idea is is 1 Peter 1: 4-5: “And a heritage fair, holy and for ever new, waiting in heaven for you, Who, by the power of God are kept, through faith, for that salvation, which will be seen at the last day.” A heritage/salvation kept in heaven for us BY the power of God and BY faith; someone said that the wicker link is faith, which is ours, because God remains forever faithfully and does His part.
d) 1 Corinthians 9:24-27: “Do you not see that in a running competition all take part, but only one gets the reward? So let your minds be fixed on the reward. And every man who takes part in the sports has self-control in all things. Now they do it to get a crown which is of this world, but we for an eternal crown. So then I am running, not uncertainly; so I am fighting, not as one who gives blows in the air: But I give blows to my body, and keep it under control, for fear that, after having given the good news to others, I myself might not have God's approval.” Well I just love this paragraph from the Bible and I really like Paul teachings; so what does he writes here? In a running competition all run for the same prize but only one gets it; what I realize from this words is that many may run in vain and at the end will not get the prize, it’s actually really terrifying; and what it’s more interesting is that even Paul a real great man of the Bible says ‘I myself might not have God’s approval’, so in order to prevent this he treats his body harsh.
e) Hebrews 12:3-4: “Give thought to Him who has undergone so much of the hate of sinners against Himself, so that you may not be tired and feeble of purpose. Till now you have not given your blood in your fight against sin.” – here I can see a terrible fight against sin that has to come to the shed of blood –metaphorical speaking giving your all, until it hurts - but unfortunately lacked the Hebrews and nowadays lack the Christians; then in the previous sentence we can see ‘so that you may not be tired and feeble of purpose’ and in my language says something like ‘so that you may not lose your hearts, so you may not fall in your souls from tiredness’, in other words o not divert.
3) The ones that say they met God but they never did: 1 Ioan 2:19: “They went out from us but they were not of us; if they had been of us they would still be with us: but they went out from us so that it might be made clear that they were not of us.” We all know the pharasees.
4) The ones that met God and stayed with Him: -2 Timothy 4: 7-8: “I have made a good fight, I have come to the end of my journey, I have kept the faith: From now on, the crown of righteousness is made ready for me, which the Lord, the upright judge, Will give to me at that day: and not only to me, but to all those who have had love for his revelation.”
I hope I made myself clear, I’m sorry for any misspelling or grammar mistakes. Have a nice day!
1 John 8-9: “If we say that we have no sin, we are false to ourselves and there is nothing true in us. If we say openly that we have done wrong, He is upright and true to His word, giving us forgiveness of sins and making us clean from all evil.”!!
Let’s answer the second question. I want to bring quotations from the Bible (Bible in basic English), not my own ideas, not something I just heard from others. I analyzed them logically, after hearing a preach ( from a great preacher) about this, and I came to agree with that logic.
Firstly I want to bring 1 Peter 1, verses 4-9: “And a heritage fair, holy and forever new, waiting in heaven for you. Who, by the power of God are kept, through faith, for that salvation, which will be seen at the last day. You have cause for great joy in this, though it may have been necessary for you to be troubled for a little time, being tested in all sorts of ways. So that the true metal of your faith, being of much greater value than gold (which, though it comes to an end, is tested by fire), may come to light in praise and glory and honor, at the revelation of Jesus Christ: To whom your love is given, though you have not seen him; and the faith which you have in him, though you do not see him now, gives you joy greater than words and full of glory: For so you have the true end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.”
Reading this verses you find something shockingly obvious, salvation as something which is kept through the power of God, through faith -but here comes the dilemma- kept to be seen (seen-that means something reachable, present, and right before your eyes) in the last day. So is not as many would think, a salvation that we already own rather than something we will never experience on Earth. Then going to the last verse, verse nine, we can see again, we have a repetition of this idea but in other words. Salvation of our souls comes only at the end of our faith/life of faith, after experiencing physical death.
Secondly we have verses 23-25 from Romans chapter 8: “And not only so, but we who have the first fruits of the Spirit, even we have sorrow in our minds, waiting for the time when we will take our place as sons, that is, the salvation of our bodies. For our salvation is by hope: but hope which is seen is not hope: for who is hoping for what he sees? But if we have hope for that which we see not, then we will be able to go on waiting for it.
(Now here Paul talks about the salvation of our body and above it talks about the salvation of our soul. As an assumption of my own, there is only one salvation going in two directions, renewing our body and soul, at the same time. We cannot receive the salvation of your soul if we have within us the Adams/Original sin, it’s like a job half-done. While we walk on earth we are condemned to live in this wicked body, just like Paul talks in Romans chapter 7. The soul is interconnected with the body, and one without the other cannot exist (speaking from our empirical existence from Earth). But so it will be in Heaven, for Paul talks about it in 1 Corinthians 15 verses 34-49 “44.It is planted a natural body; it comes again as a body of the spirit. If there is a natural body, there is equally a body of the spirit.” So continuing my assumption, we will receive a new body, and a soul liberated from the burdening weight of sin at the same time. I don’t know if I made myself clear, but this was a deviation from the relevant ideas for this topic.)
Going back to our second point we see that salvation is seen as hope. And we all know that hope is reserved for the future. Paul says “our salvation is by hope” and then explains the meaning of hope, something you can’t see as previously in 1 Peter 1:5, something that is waiting for you, and which have to be awaited with patience. Nobody asks of you to be patient if you don’t have to wait that long. Our whole Christian life is a long period of time to wait for salvation, a life represented by fights to remain in the grace of the Father “Take up God's instruments of war, so that you may be able to keep your position against all the deceits of the Evil One. For our fight is not against flesh and blood, but against authorities and powers, against the world-rulers of this dark night, against the spirits of evil in the heavens.” Ephesians 6:11-12.
So then what happens to us when we meet God? Are we not saved? Yes, we are, God through Christ’s blood forgives us, covers our sins and redeems us, but for a salvation kept in heaven for us. As long as we remain on the righteous path (the end of the path is the point where salvation awaits), we have accessibility to the salvation of Christ revealed to us in the afterlife.
A preacher once made an illustration:
a)We are born again;
I’ll give some examples of what ‘born-again’ means and how do we engage in this process:
John 3:1-6: “Jesus said to him, Truly, I say to you, Without a new birth no man is able to see the kingdom of God. Nicodemus said to him, How is it possible for a man to be given birth when he is old? Is he able to go into his mother's body a second time and come to birth again? Jesus said in answer, Truly, I say to you, If a man's birth is not from water and from the Spirit, it is not possible for him to go into the kingdom of God. That which has birth from the flesh is flesh, and that which has birth from the Spirit is spirit.”-here Jesus talks about one term on which we can be part of His Kingdom, to be born again by the Spirit and by water (which is the baptize). The renewal of the spirit is something that can’t be seen as we can observe in the following sentence/verses from this chapter 7-8: “Do not be surprised that I say to you, It is necessary for you to have a second birth. The wind goes where its pleasure takes it, and the sound of it comes to your ears, but you are unable to say where it comes from and where it goes: so it is with everyone whose birth is from the Spirit.
John 1:12-13: “To all those who did so take Him, however, He gave the right of becoming children of God-that is, to those who had faith in His name; Whose birth was from God and not from blood, or from an impulse of the flesh and man's desire.”-now we see that we are born again by fath/belief in Him.
John 3:14-16: “As the snake was lifted up by Moses in the waste land, even so it is necessary for the Son of man to be lifted up: So that whoever has faith may have in him eternal life. For God had such love for the world that he gave his only Son, so that whoever has faith in him may not come to destruction but have eternal life.”- from this verse I understand that only by believing in Jesus Christ and His cross we can receive eternal life. And when we believe the Holy Spirit comes and we become new beings by spirit.
b) We are in a process of sanctification our whole life;
Romans 8: 21-22: “That all living things will be made free from the power of death and will have a part with the free children of God in glory. For we are conscious that all living things are weeping and sorrowing in pain together till now. And not only so, but we who have the first fruits of the Spirit, even we have sorrow in our minds, waiting for the time when we will take our place as sons, that is, the salvation of our bodies.”- here Paul talks about the liberation from the death (Adamic sin) within ourselves. In King James version of the Bible ‘sorrowing’ is replaced with ‘travaileth in pain’ which refers to a process of childbirth labor, that only can refer to a continuously process of rebirth –if I can say so- of renewing ourselves until we receive the salvation of our body. And we all know that whilst we are here, in this body we can’t be set free from the consequences of the Original transgression of Adam and Eve.
1 Peter 2:1-2: “So putting away all wrongdoing, and all tricks and deceits and envies and evil talk, Be full of desire for the true milk of the word, as babies at their mothers' breasts, so that you may go on (in other translation it wrote ‘to grow towards salvation’) to salvation;”- from this I understand that we, as new-born Christians need to feed in order to grow, to arrive at a state of Cristian maturity; here we can see a clear separation from the act of reborn and receiving the salvation, where salvation can be achieved only at maturity, when the ‘baby becomes a man’; and we as humans grow in wisdom, in knowledge until we die; let’s be sincere as christians to admit that we fail sometimes and we never fully achieve a state of perfection.
Romans 6:22: “But now, being free from sin, and having been made servants to God, you have your fruit in that which is holy, and the end is eternal life.”- this is a bit tricky- in my language this verse is translated like this: instead of ‘you have your fruit in that which is holy’ I have ‘ you have the fruit of sanctification’ not holy/holiness which is a state but as a process; I know it’s hard to digest this but I am not saying you are not saint in the eyes of God, because we all know that when we meet God, through Jesus Christ we are without sin, because He gives as forgiveness, for our past, present and future sins; but we can still do wrong, we can still slip but we always have to come back and do our best to remain under His guidance in a continuing process of sanctification.
James 3:2: “For we all go wrong in a number of things.” James 5:16:“ So then, make a statement of your sins to one another, and say prayers for one another so that you may be made well (/in other translation is ‘healed’). The prayer of a good man is full of power in its working.” –here James addresses other christians that supposedly united with God and Jesus Christ, and includes himself in the category of people who do wrongly in numerous things on the path of righteousness; then you could say that those people who do wrong are not righteous in the eyes of the Lord, but then we see “the prayer of a good man is full of power in its working” which drives me to a conclusion, you can be good/righteous but still do little wrongs, you repent them and in prayer you ask healing from those wicked things.
c) After death we meet our salvation- for this I already brought up the verses from Romans 8 and 1 Peter 1:4-9.
Now I have discovered four kinds of people (I am not saying this is an absolute truth):
1) The ones that never meet God- for this category I don’t need to say anything.
2) The ones that met God but diverted from Him: a) 2 Peter 1:9-10: “For the man who has not these things is blind, seeing only what is near, having no memory of how he was made clean from his old sins. For this reason, my brothers, take all the more care to make your selection and approval certain; for if you do these things you will never have a fall.” In this verses we can see clear that you can lose your way; ‘having no memory of how he was made clean from his old sins’ and we all know that in order to be forgiven we need to meet God and His power and be made new trough Christ’s blood; then the final sentence consists into an advice to strengthen their choice and approval (of what?- to enter God’s Kingdom), to never fall, as in they CAN fall and fail.
b) 2 Timothy 2:12-13: “If we go on to the end, then we will be ruling with Him: if we say we have no knowledge of Him, then He will say he has no knowledge of us: If we are without faith, still He keeps faith, for He will never be untrue to Himself.”- here again, Paul teaches that we have to pass on a road with a final destination, ‘if’ we go on to the end we will arrive there, ‘if’ we divert we will not.
c) Joshua 1: 5-7: “While you are living, all will give way before you: as I was with Moses, so I will be with you; I will not take away my help from you or give you up. Take heart and be strong; for you will give to this people for their heritage the land which I gave by an oath to their fathers. Only take heart and be very strong; take care to do all the law which Moses my servant gave you, not turning from it to the right hand or to the left, so that you may do well in all your undertakings.” –here we can see the Hand of God, He remaining faithfully, but than we have our own part in receiving salvation ‘take heart and be strong’ ‘take care to do all…’ don’t turn to the right or left, go straight ahead and do your tasks. Another illustration for this idea is is 1 Peter 1: 4-5: “And a heritage fair, holy and for ever new, waiting in heaven for you, Who, by the power of God are kept, through faith, for that salvation, which will be seen at the last day.” A heritage/salvation kept in heaven for us BY the power of God and BY faith; someone said that the wicker link is faith, which is ours, because God remains forever faithfully and does His part.
d) 1 Corinthians 9:24-27: “Do you not see that in a running competition all take part, but only one gets the reward? So let your minds be fixed on the reward. And every man who takes part in the sports has self-control in all things. Now they do it to get a crown which is of this world, but we for an eternal crown. So then I am running, not uncertainly; so I am fighting, not as one who gives blows in the air: But I give blows to my body, and keep it under control, for fear that, after having given the good news to others, I myself might not have God's approval.” Well I just love this paragraph from the Bible and I really like Paul teachings; so what does he writes here? In a running competition all run for the same prize but only one gets it; what I realize from this words is that many may run in vain and at the end will not get the prize, it’s actually really terrifying; and what it’s more interesting is that even Paul a real great man of the Bible says ‘I myself might not have God’s approval’, so in order to prevent this he treats his body harsh.
e) Hebrews 12:3-4: “Give thought to Him who has undergone so much of the hate of sinners against Himself, so that you may not be tired and feeble of purpose. Till now you have not given your blood in your fight against sin.” – here I can see a terrible fight against sin that has to come to the shed of blood –metaphorical speaking giving your all, until it hurts - but unfortunately lacked the Hebrews and nowadays lack the Christians; then in the previous sentence we can see ‘so that you may not be tired and feeble of purpose’ and in my language says something like ‘so that you may not lose your hearts, so you may not fall in your souls from tiredness’, in other words o not divert.
3) The ones that say they met God but they never did: 1 Ioan 2:19: “They went out from us but they were not of us; if they had been of us they would still be with us: but they went out from us so that it might be made clear that they were not of us.” We all know the pharasees.
4) The ones that met God and stayed with Him: -2 Timothy 4: 7-8: “I have made a good fight, I have come to the end of my journey, I have kept the faith: From now on, the crown of righteousness is made ready for me, which the Lord, the upright judge, Will give to me at that day: and not only to me, but to all those who have had love for his revelation.”
I hope I made myself clear, I’m sorry for any misspelling or grammar mistakes. Have a nice day!
1 John 8-9: “If we say that we have no sin, we are false to ourselves and there is nothing true in us. If we say openly that we have done wrong, He is upright and true to His word, giving us forgiveness of sins and making us clean from all evil.”!!
