the two witnesses are God the Father and the Holy Spirit

badger58 · Jul 7, 2016

God is not going to tell Elijah to leave heaven and go back to earth to be slaughtered, nor is He going to tell Moses to die a second time. This whole passage is encrypted as is most of Revelation. The witnesses are not called men. Men do not breath fire. Nowhere is there a fire breathing man found in the Bible. There isn't going to be a huge hole opening up with a Beast crawling up from it and waging war against two fire breathers.

I agree with you on this, but the rest of your your post is full of holes. It doesn't add up!

The beaten work of the golden lamp stand being anointed by the two olive trees make perfect sense when you read the explanation given to Zechariah by God Himself: Not by might, nor by power, but by my SPIRIT sayeth the Lord. Man or nations have nothing to do with accomplishing His plan of salvation. We are just the blessed beneficiaries of what God alone can do for us.
Why am I the only one that can see this? I guess I'm just crazy enough to believe the scriptures where it says: So He looked around and there no one to give Him assistance. So He does it for His great names sake. His sacrifice, not ours. Where did I go wrong to develop such a crazy idea?

badger58 · Jul 7, 2016

badger58 said:

God alone breathes fire! Look into the altar sacrifices in the old testament. If you would just open your eyes(correction, if God would open your eyes). They are shadow of The Lords work, His strange work. The Livitical priests never understood the meaning of the sacrifices, they just did them because they were told to do them. There was a morning AND an evening sacrifice. Hmmm, I think its quite possible that the two witnesses are the peace offering! and once they are rejected, the wrath of God is justly poured out on the wicked that are left on this planet. There will be nothing more that God could have done! DO YOU SEE HOW GREAT THE LOVE OF GOD IS? possibly the world will think that it is being attacked by aliens from another planet. The great deception?

badger58 · Jul 7, 2016

badger58 said:

God alone breathes fire! Look into the altar sacrifices in the old testament. If you would just open your eyes(correction, if God would open your eyes). They are shadow of The Lords work, His strange work. The Livitical priests never understood the meaning of the sacrifices, they just did them because they were told to do them. There was a morning AND an evening sacrifice. Hmmm, I think its quite possible that the two witnesses are the peace offering! and once they are rejected, the wrath of God is justly poured out on the wicked that are left on this planet. There will be nothing more that God could have done! DO YOU SEE HOW GREAT THE LOVE OF GOD IS? possibly the world will think that it is being attacked by aliens from another planet. The great deception?

PlainWord · Jul 7, 2016

badger58 said:

Zec 4: So I said, “I am looking, and there is a lampstand of solid gold with a bowl on top of it, and on the stand seven lamps with seven pipes to the seven lamps.

How many lamps and pipes?

Rev 1: ...and the seven lampstands which you saw are the seven churches.

badger58 · Jul 7, 2016

badger58 said:

Isa 29:6 Thou shalt be visited of the LORD of hosts with thunder, and with earthquake, and great noise, with storm and tempest, and the flame of devouring fire.
And again

◄ Revelation 10:4 ►

And when the seven thunders had uttered their voices, I was about to write: and I heard a voice from heaven saying to me, Seal up those things which the seven thunders uttered, and write them not.

badger58 · Jul 7, 2016

badger58 said:

Isa 29:6 Thou shalt be visited of the LORD of hosts with thunder, and with earthquake, and great noise, with storm and tempest, and the flame of devouring fire.
And again

◄ Revelation 10:4 ►

And when the seven thunders had uttered their voices, I was about to write: and I heard a voice from heaven saying to me, Seal up those things which the seven thunders uttered, and write them not.

badger58 · Jul 7, 2016

badger58 said:

Do you realize how many of the prophets prayed for this verse to be fulfilled?
Psa 74:22 Arise, O God, plead thine own cause: remember how the foolish man reproacheth thee daily.
It is amazing that Jesus said:I do not come in my own name, but in the name of the One that sent me.
Father is coming! The prophets prayer will be answered! I take the word of God so literally, I guess that's why I come up with such
Wild idea's. Please forgive my madness.

disciplemike · Jul 7, 2016

I am not sure, but it is interesting when you compare these two verse:
I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and curse. Therefore choose life, that you and your offspring may live,

Deuteronomy 30:19 (ESV2011)

For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished.
Matthew 5:18 (ESV2011)

badger58 · Jul 7, 2016

badger58 said:

And again
Hab 3:1 ¶ A prayer of Habakkuk the prophet upon Shigionoth.

Hab 3:2 ¶ O LORD, I have heard thy speech, and was afraid: O LORD, revive thy work in the midst of the years, in the midst of the years make known; in wrath remember mercy.

Hab 3:3 ¶ God came from Teman, and the Holy One from mount Paran. Selah. His glory covered the heavens, and the earth was full of his praise.

Hab 3:4 And his brightness was as the light; he had horns coming out of his hand: and there was the hiding of his power.

Hab 3:5 Before him went the pestilence, and burning coals went forth at his feet.

Hab 3:6 He stood, and measured the earth: he beheld, and drove asunder the nations; and the everlasting mountains were scattered, the perpetual hills did bow: his ways are everlasting.

Hab 3:7 I saw the tents of Cushan in affliction: and the curtains of the land of Midian did tremble.

Hab 3:8 ¶ Was the LORD displeased against the rivers? was thine anger against the rivers? was thy wrath against the sea, that thou didst ride upon thine horses and thy chariots of salvation?

Hab 3:9 Thy bow was made quite naked, according to the oaths of the tribes, even thy word. Selah. Thou didst cleave the earth with rivers.

Hab 3:10 The mountains saw thee, and they trembled: the overflowing of the water passed by: the deep uttered his voice, and lifted up his hands on high.

Hab 3:11 The sun and moon stood still in their habitation: at the light of thine arrows they went, and at the shining of thy glittering spear.

Hab 3:12 Thou didst march through the land in indignation, thou didst thresh the heathen in anger.

Hab 3:13 Thou wentest forth for the salvation of thy people, even for salvation with thine anointed; thou woundedst the head out of the house of the wicked, by discovering the foundation unto the neck. Selah.

Hab 3:14 Thou didst strike through with his staves the head of his villages: they came out as a whirlwind to scatter me: their rejoicing was as to devour the poor secretly.

Hab 3:15 Thou didst walk through the sea with thine horses, through the heap of great waters.

Hab 3:16 ¶ When I heard, my belly trembled; my lips quivered at the voice: rottenness entered into my bones, and I trembled in myself, that I might rest in the day of trouble: when he cometh up unto the people, he will invade them with his troops.
Habakkuk prays that God would revive His work in the midst of years. It's interesting that Jesus' ministry lasted 3 1/2 years, as will the two witnesses, for a combined work of seven years. Do you see a pattern? What Habakkuk is describing seems to terrify the prophet. It would seem to be a narrative of God coming to the earth. When Jesus returns, He comes in the clouds with ten thousands of His saints. If the prophet is speaking of Jesus, then how do you reconcile these two different narratives?
Teman and Paran are two different mountains. Who is this Holy One that comes from Paran?
Many have told me that all the prophecies are only about Jesus. Maybe, but I see plenty of evidence that would lead me to conclude, that Father and the Holy Spirit are the two witnesses.
I don't think its Robbery to consider the salvation of the elect to be a family matter.
If you disagree, I would love for you to address my points without the hit and run personal attacks.
I just call it like I see it. If you think the two witnesses are Enoch and Elijah and that makes sense to you, that's ok.
It just doesn't add up to me.
In any case, TO GOD BE THE GLORY!
PEACE

PlainWord · Jul 7, 2016

badger58 said:

Zechariah was also shown 4 horses wasn't he? At the time the earth was quiet. Why? Because nothing was happening yet. When John saw them, they were doing stuff.

Sorry, don't have a lot of time to get deeper into this at the moment. Will try tomorrow. But I am correct in what I told you earlier and the war against the 2 witnesses is now underway and it's pretty obvious. God Bless!!!

PlainWord · Jul 8, 2016

badger58 said:

It isn't literal fire, silly. It's a metaphor. What happened at Pentecost? Go back to Acts 2:

[SUP]3 [/SUP]Then there appeared to them divided tongues, as of fire, and one sat upon each of them. [SUP]4 [/SUP]And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

AS OF FIRE (Tongues = Language = Fire)

The Church was given the POWER of the HOLY SPIRIT at Pentecost.

Again, we are told who the witnesses are.

Acts 1:8

But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”

Acts 5:32
And we are His witnesses to these things, and so also is the Holy Spirit whom God has given to those who obey Him.”

Acts 10:41
not to all the people, but to witnesses chosen before by God, even to us who ate and drank with Him after He arose from the dead.

The Church or WITNESSES were given Power as fire in their mouths consuming those who spiritual opposed them.

PlainWord · Jul 8, 2016

Who are John's "two witnesses"? The context suggests that in some way the testimony of the two witnesses corresponds to John's own. In 10:11 he is told to prophesy, and in 11:3, 6 he describes the witnesses doing just that. By referring to them as the two olive trees and the two lampstands (v. 4), he recalls a vision of Zechariah (Zech 4:2-3), with the accompanying message, "`Not by might nor by power, but by my Spirit,' says the LORD Almighty" (Zech 4:6).

Olive trees (with their oil) and lampstands (with their light) are appropriate images for the Spirit of God, and John has already used lampstands as a metaphor for the seven congregations to which he writes. The witnesses, therefore, should be understood as vehicles of the Holy Spirit, representing Christian prophecy or the church in its prophetic ministry to the world, whether in John's time or ours.

https://www.biblegateway.com/resources/commentaries/IVP-NT/Rev/Prophecy-Two-Witnesses

PlainWord · Jul 8, 2016

Gen 3:[SUP] 14 [/SUP]So the Lord God said to the serpent:“Because you have done this, You are cursed more than all cattle, And more than every beast of the field; On your belly you shall go, And you shall eat dust All the days of your life. [SUP]15 [/SUP]And I will put enmity (a feeling or condition of hostility; hatred; ill will; animosity; antagonism) Between you and the woman, And between your seed and her Seed; He shall bruise your head, And you shall bruise His heel.”

The "Woman" in the above is not Eve, rather it is ISRAEL as we see below:

Rev 12: Now a great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a garland of twelve stars. [SUP]2 [/SUP]Then being with child, she cried out in labor and in pain to give birth... [SUP]5 [/SUP]She bore a male Child who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron. And her Child was caught up to God and His throne.

There can be no doubt from the above that the "WOMAN" who gave birth to the male Child (CHRIST) is Israel. So God put enmity or hatred between SATAN and ISRAEL. AND: And between your seed and her Seed.

Between Satan's seed and Israel's seed? What the heck does that mean? Does Satan literally have seed/human descendants? Is Satan the literal father of a race of people? OR, is this a spiritual concept? In other words, are there people following Satan who are in opposition to God's People?

Who are the seeds of Israel?

[SUP]17 [/SUP]And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Spiritually speaking there is only one group of people who have the testimony of Jesus Christ and they are obviously Christians. So which spiritual group/religion is in conflict and has hatred for Christianity and vice versa? The answer is obvious.

abcdef · Jul 8, 2016

PlainWord said:

Gen 3:[SUP] 14 [/SUP]So the Lord God said to the serpent:“Because you have done this, You are cursed more than all cattle, And more than every beast of the field; On your belly you shall go, And you shall eat dust All the days of your life. [SUP]15 [/SUP]And I will put enmity (a feeling or condition of hostility; hatred; ill will; animosity; antagonism) Between you and the woman, And between your seed and her Seed; He shall bruise your head, And you shall bruise His heel.”

The "Woman" in the above is not Eve, rather it is ISRAEL as we see below:

Rev 12: Now a great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a garland of twelve stars. [SUP]2 [/SUP]Then being with child, she cried out in labor and in pain to give birth... [SUP]5 [/SUP]She bore a male Child who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron. And her Child was caught up to God and His throne.

There can be no doubt from the above that the "WOMAN" who gave birth to the male Child (CHRIST) is Israel. So God put enmity or hatred between SATAN and ISRAEL. AND: And between your seed and her Seed.

Between Satan's seed and Israel's seed? What the heck does that mean? Does Satan literally have seed/human descendants? Is Satan the literal father of a race of people? OR, is this a spiritual concept? In other words, are there people following Satan who are in opposition to God's People?

Who are the seeds of Israel?

[SUP]17 [/SUP]And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Spiritually speaking there is only one group of people who have the testimony of Jesus Christ and they are obviously Christians. So which spiritual group/religion is in conflict and has hatred for Christianity and vice versa? The answer is obvious.

The 2 witnesses are Israel restored to Jerusalem, present day.

They will be killed by Iran and it's allies (Kings of the East).

PlainWord · Jul 8, 2016

abcdef said:

Nope, two witnesses, not one. Israel is one, the church is the other.

The Kings of the EAST??? Huh? Where do you see them attacking the two witnesses?

abcdef · Jul 8, 2016

PlainWord said:

The 2 witnesses represent the law and the prophets,

Israel is the channel (oil, Holy Spirit) of God's Word (Law and the prophets) to the world.

Jn 5:39, "Search the Scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

--------------------------------------
The army of the 6th trumpet (6th vial Rev 16) attacks Israel from across the Euphrates and kills the 2 witnesses.

PlainWord · Jul 8, 2016

abcdef said:

Negative good buddy. The 6th Trumpet 200 million strong Army is God's army of Joel 2. They are coming to kill all the enemies around Israel. They kill 1/3 of mankind. We are told that the people still do not repent. Fire and brimstone represents divine punishment. Israel only has 8 million people.

There aren't enough Jews to kill to equal 1/3 of mankind besides, Zec 13 tells us 2/3 of Israel is cut off and 1/3 is saved. You have to read the entire clue, not just some of it. Compare the 6th Trumpet to Joel 2 and you will see both are discussing the same event.

Once the Christian world, which makes up 1/3 of the planet, is killed then the Muslim world becomes 1/3. Do the math. 200 million martyrs come back with Christ and they come from the east. The invading Muslim army comes from the North as we are told in Dan 11, Joel 2, Eze 38, etc.

As for the Witnesses, they cannot be OT witnesses because they are killed and resurrected just 3.5 days (3.5 prophetic years) later.

phil112 · Jul 8, 2016

badger58 said:

The Lord didn't say that, and neither does the bible. You don't know bible well enough to quote it accurately, yet you put forth some kind of weak argument for your own pet false doctrine. And then you want someone to think you have some kind of knowledge of the subject?

Some things never change.......................................

badger58 · Jul 8, 2016

phil112 said:

If you would read my hundreds of posts, you would know that after 40 years, I do know something of what is in the bible.
Here is a perfect quote, since a paraphrase isn't good enough for you.
Berean Literal Bible
And, Jesus answering said to them, "You err, not knowing the Scriptures, nor the power of God.
I don't see where I missed the meaning of what Jesus was saying, but I can accept your struggling with what I'm saying.
Let me guess! You think Enoch and Elijah. That's fine for you. I will read it for myself, and I have at least show the guts to speak my mind when what is being spoon fed by the mainstream. I can't go against what I think is clearly given to the prophets. I will not be silenced by anyone. Take your best shot! You don't know, what you don't know. If I think God has revealed this to me. Why are you so bent out of shape.
What is the wheat to the chaff.
And again
Wisdom is justified of Her children.
I'm just sharing what I have found in my personal bible studies. I believe I have that right.
Peace

badger58 · Jul 8, 2016

phil112 said:

I am just a bible student sharing what I clearly see. Don't worry, your beliefs are safe! I'm sure you have plenty of company.
I wont cave, just because everyone disagrees with me. I think God is smiling. Hasn't it always been that way?

the two witnesses are God the Father and the Holy Spirit

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