Minnesota Shooting (Lets Start Over)

[KimPetras]

Give it a rest. You posted information you referred to as facts that were not facts. Can't you just leave it at that. I like to wait for corroborating evidence before I start calling things facts. Their hasn't been an investigation yet. You can't rely on statements from the woman in the vehicle and more than you can rely on the statements made by the criminal companion of Michael Brown, who made up the famous line; "hands up, don't shoot" that he later stated to investigators never happened. So what I'm saying is there is no hypocrisy. You made a mistake and I pointed it out.

You did the same thing Voldemort did. The only difference is that Voldemort quickly owned his mistake where as you are defending your assumptions as if you have all the real facts.

You pointed out a mistake he already owned and you're taking objection to him returning the favor. Don't get mad at him that you're guilty of the same thing, only worse in my opinion because you refuse to admit that you made assumptions without knowing all the facts.

 

[KimPetras]

I find it odd as a former police officer you think "the last thing" you do is display your gun. I understand you may not have wanted it displayed and/or you never asked for the weapon for their safety as well as your own, but this is apparently foreign to you that other officers request this.

You said that's a threat... without even knowing if the police asked him to place it in a specific location. Maybe he did, maybe he didn't, but the video doesn't tell us any of that. So much for waiting for the facts...

Checkmate. I wouldn't keep corresponding with that poster anymore though. I've read the entire thread from page 1 to now and he doesn't appear to understand his own hypocrisy.

 

[Voldemort]

You made a mistake and I pointed it out.

I pointed my own mistake out prior to you pointing it out.

Wasn't it you who was saying that people will say one thing, then later on when it's revealed to be untrue they DON'T come back and own it? I did exactly that, yet you're having fun pointing out my mistake, all the while doing it yourself and not even acknowledging you're doing it too.

 

[Willie-T]

Did anyone point out that a point might have been mistakenly made? Or is it a mistake to point that out?

 

[Voldemort]

Checkmate. I wouldn't keep corresponding with that poster anymore though. I've read the entire thread from page 1 to now and he doesn't appear to understand his own hypocrisy.

Thank you, I appreciate that. I just think this might hit close to home for him being a former cop. I can understand and take any personal posts he has. If I was a former cop and someone shot 5 innocent brave and heroic police officers killing them, I might react similarly.

 

[Sirk]

You might have several minutes from the time you are pulled over until the officer approaches your vehicle. He has already run the plate and tried to discover if the registered owner is a violent felon and maybe wanted. What are you doing during those three minutes? You should have all the windows down. You should have the dome light on if it is night time. The vehicles engine should be turned off. Everyone's hands should be up and visible. If there are two officers in the police car, one is watching every move you are making before they approach. As a former police officer, I learned during the academy that most police fatalities happen during traffic stops. I never wanted to see a firearm within easy reach of any occupant. I wanted them to tell me they had a firearm and tell me where it is located. I will tell them not to reach for it. I will draw my service revolver and be ready for anything. If I am alone, I will tell the driver to standby and I will retreat to my cruiser and call for an additional officer. We will try to avoid standing next to the vehicle. Where I use to work, you knew if the driver or passenger was wanted before you asked them for id, because they got out of the vehicle and ran. Not one person ever told me they had a loaded gun in their vehicle, or displayed it. Maybe that was because most of them were felons and did not want to be charged with illegal possession.

You carried a revolver? Are you dirty Harry?

 

[hornetguy]

You carried a revolver? Are you dirty Harry?

?? I don't understand the question.

MOST police departments carried revolvers, up until maybe 20-30 years ago. Gradually, over a few years, most law enforcement agencies have switched to autoloaders.

Several gun retailers still sell police department "trade ins".... Most are Smith and Wesson model 10 revolvers, or model 64 revolvers, which are simply stainless steel versions of the model 10.



Dirty Harry just carried a BIG revolver.

 

[Sirk]

?? I don't understand the question.

MOST police departments carried revolvers, up until maybe 20-30 years ago. Gradually, over a few years, most law enforcement agencies have switched to autoloaders.

Several gun retailers still sell police department "trade ins".... Most are Smith and Wesson model 10 revolvers, or model 64 revolvers, which are simply stainless steel versions of the model 10.



Dirty Harry just carried a BIG revolver.

Just curious. Haven't seen an officer carry a revolver in a long time.

 

[peacenik]

thats one way to spin it. The other is that there is more crime to be found in inner city neighborhoods. And many of them are black populations. Police go where the crime is. And often when a shooting occurs theses officers are on edge because the have plenty of negative experiences to cause them to be on edge when the pull Joe Schmoe over.

If you read these reports you learn that the actual numbers of crimes committed by whites actually exceed those committed by minorities. With, again, law enforcement rate against minorities being higher which accounts for the "higher" crimes rates. The University of Minnesota did a great deal of research on this matter with reports that can be found online if you wish to explore this further.

 

[Sinnerman]

You did the same thing Voldemort did. The only difference is that Voldemort quickly owned his mistake where as you are defending your assumptions as if you have all the real facts.

You pointed out a mistake he already owned and you're taking objection to him returning the favor. Don't get mad at him that you're guilty of the same thing, only worse in my opinion because you refuse to admit that you made assumptions without knowing all the facts.

Perhaps I can sponsor you and Voldermort in a reading comprehension class.

Let me take you through this and allow you to see the difference between someone stating something is a fact and someone saying the facts are not know.

Originally Posted by Voldemort

Fact: Philando Castile wasn't even driving; he was a passenger.

Fact: The cop asked for ID from Philando Castile.
Question: Is it standard protocol for a cop to ask for ID from passengers? I'm curious why Philando was asked for ID when he wasn't the driver and it was for a broken tail light. We will have to wait and see.

Fact: Philando Castile informed the cop he was armed and has a permit for it.

Fact: Philando Castile reached for his wallet but was ordered to disobey his first command (to show ID).
Question: Did Philando Castile reach for his wallet prior to informing the cop he has a gun and permit? Either way, being shot 4 times for complying with a direct order (to show ID) is unjustified.

Fact: Philando Castile never stopped reaching for his wallet to comply with the officer's second order which according to the video was to "keep his hands open". Having already reached behind himself to grab his wallet to show ID, Philando brings his hand back up (without wallet/gun) and was shot multiple times in doing so.
Question: Why didn't the cop take a defensive position like he was trained to do in the event Philando was dumb enough to inform a cop he has a weapon and intended to use it to fire on the officer?

My opinion from the facts/evidence we have so far: I believe the cop DID NOT murder Philando Castile. This is more in line with manslaughter. The officer exercised poor decision making by being in a high state of alert and unjustifiably killed an innocent man who wasn't even the driver of the automotive vehicle. The officer not only took Castile's life, but he risked the lives of a 4 year old child and woman by pumping Castile with bullets. In doing so, his daughter runs a high probability of suffering psychological trauma. May God help her and his entire family.

Originally posted by Sinnerman: I'm just wondering if I wrote the words; Fact: what you wrote was false, Would that make everything you said false simply because I wrote "Fact"? So why did you think by writing fact, we should believe you? I don't. The facts are not all know yet. Reports are suggesting the officer who fired at Philando was not white as first reported. Other reports are saying the officer fired because Philando had his weapon displayed on his lap and he refused to keep his hands away from it. There are also reports that their was a theft or robbery that had just happened and Philando may have been considered a suspect. So, are these facts? They might end up being facts. They might not. What you stated was your opinion, and it was not based on evidence or facts, because your alleged evidence and facts have not been corroborated.

Do you see the difference, Kim? He said what he was posting was factual. I said the facts are not all known. I went even further and stated that other stories coming out suggested other scenarios and they might end up being factual and they might not. I said these thing for a reason. The video was taken after the shooting. People were judging the officer without having all the facts. Maybe you did as well. I'm going to ask you to point out how I did the same thing Voldermort did. I'm not seeing it. I was quite careful not to do something so foolish. Please prove me wrong or apologize. Thank you.

 

[Sinnerman]

You carried a revolver? Are you dirty Harry?

No, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn last night.

 

[Sirk]

If you read these reports you learn that the actual numbers of crimes committed by whites actually exceed those committed by minorities. With, again, law enforcement rate against minorities being higher which accounts for the "higher" crimes rates. The University of Minnesota did a great deal of research on this matter with reports that can be found online if you wish to explore this further.

And more whites were killed by police than blacks were in 2015....doesn't matter what color you are. If you live in a high crime area there will be more police and higher incidences of violent clashes. The problem is you try to make this about race....but the reality is it is about crime.

 

[Sinnerman]

If you read these reports you learn that the actual numbers of crimes committed by whites actually exceed those committed by minorities. With, again, law enforcement rate against minorities being higher which accounts for the "higher" crimes rates. The University of Minnesota did a great deal of research on this matter with reports that can be found online if you wish to explore this further.

At what rate do blacks commit murder per capita? What rate do white commit murder, per capita? Blacks disproportionally commit acts of violence compared to whites. No study says otherwise. I'm guessing when you use the generic word crimes, some liberal college can find a way to include insider trading and tax evasion into the mix and try to convince people who don't ask too many questions that blacks commit less crimes than whites, per capita. Why are you so adamant about spinning crime statistics and trying to hide that which cannot be hidden? Do you simple pretend the city of Chicago is on a different planet? Or Detroit, or Baltimore, or Washington D.C., or St. Louis, or Houston, or Los Angeles, or Cleveland, or Louisville, or Miami, or Atlanta, or NYC, or Philadelphia, Memphis, or Oakland, are not cities in the United States? They are and they are cities where young black men are killing each other in record numbers. What is the benefit in pretending it isn't happening?

 

[Sirk]

At what rate do blacks commit murder per capita? What rate do white commit murder, per capita? Blacks disproportionally commit acts of violence compared to whites. No study says otherwise. I'm guessing when you use the generic word crimes, some liberal college can find a way to include insider trading and tax evasion into the mix and try to convince people who don't ask too many questions that blacks commit less crimes than whites, per capita. Why are you so adamant about spinning crime statistics and trying to hide that which cannot be hidden? Do you simple pretend the city of Chicago is on a different planet? Or Detroit, or Baltimore, or Washington D.C., or St. Louis, or Houston, or Los Angeles, or Cleveland, or Louisville, or Miami, or Atlanta, or NYC, or Philadelphia, Memphis, or Oakland, are not cities in the United States? They are and they are cities where young black men are killing each other in record numbers. What is the benefit in pretending it isn't happening?

There can only be a couple of explanations.

 

[peacenik]

At what rate do blacks commit murder per capita? What rate do white commit murder, per capita? Blacks disproportionally commit acts of violence compared to whites. No study says otherwise. I'm guessing when you use the generic word crimes, some liberal college can find a way to include insider trading and tax evasion into the mix and try to convince people who don't ask too many questions that blacks commit less crimes than whites, per capita. Why are you so adamant about spinning crime statistics and trying to hide that which cannot be hidden? Do you simple pretend the city of Chicago is on a different planet? Or Detroit, or Baltimore, or Washington D.C., or St. Louis, or Houston, or Los Angeles, or Cleveland, or Louisville, or Miami, or Atlanta, or NYC, or Philadelphia, Memphis, or Oakland, are not cities in the United States? They are and they are cities where young black men are killing each other in record numbers. What is the benefit in pretending it isn't happening?

Since I did not write those reports, you need to read them for your answer within its contents.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

I think that's been well explained on one of these threads.

Cops aren't playing a game of "duel" to see who is the better shot or who can still kill the other with one round in their shoulder. You do not shoot without the full intention of totally stopping your attacker, "perceived" or "actual."

Sigh ......

 

[KimPetras]

Perhaps I can sponsor you and Voldermort in a reading comprehension class.

No need. I read what you said and can copy and paste what you said.

Did you know that there are reports that Castile had taken his weapon out and placed it on his lap, which would be the very worst thing, and most threatening thing a person could do?

If you are in a vehicle that is being stopped by police, and you have a gun, the very last thing you do is display the gun. That is highly unusual behavior and it should be considered a threat to the safety of the officers.

In the first quote, you did what Voldemort did. You recited a report not knowing with absolutely certainty it is factual. It may be factual, but we don't know at this point.

Your second quote you said "it's unusual behavior and it should be considered a threat" all the while not even knowing if Castile went for the gun or if the officer ordered him to place it there or anywhere. Why say it should be a threat when you even admit you don't have all the facts, and then condemn someone else for doing the exact same thing you're doing?!

What's even worse is you ignore Voldemort's other post where he owns his mistake and poke him after. Then when someone else points out you're doing the same thing, you blame it on their reading comprehension. Humble yourself in the way Voldemort did and admit it's NOT "unusual behavior" and it may not have been a "threat" if the officer gave him orders since we don't have all the facts.

 

[Sinnerman]

No need. I read what you said and can copy and paste what you said.




In the first quote, you did what Voldemort did. You recited a report not knowing with absolutely certainty it is factual. It may be factual, but we don't know at this point.

Then what? Notice that I posted my complete quote and you edited it and quoted only the first part. You failed to acknowledge the part where I added that the information that was coming out "suggested there was more to the story. Where do you see the word fact written in what I said? Then, trying to help you overcome your own misguided comments, I highlighted the words; the facts are not all known yet. I even made those words larger so you wouldn't miss them. What other words were highlighted and written in bold? So are these facts? They might turn out to be facts and they might not. I find it difficult to believe you are incapable of grasping what those words mean. Do you know what the words; the facts are not all known yet mean? Do you know what the words; They might turn out to be facts and they might not mean? Why did you choose to delete those words from what you posted and called my quote, when it was not my full quote? That sort of editing is dishonest. Are you normally dishonest? Is being dishonest a tactic you employ to gain some sort of advantage during discussions on topics where your view is different than someone else's view?
Your second quote you said "it's unusual behavior and it should be considered a threat" all the while not even knowing if Castile went for the gun or if the officer ordered him to place it there or anywhere. Why say it should be a threat when you even admit you don't have all the facts, and then condemn someone else for doing the exact same thing you're doing?!

You don't seem to understand that my statements and Voldermort's statements are not the exact same. My second quote, which again, you edited to your convenience, which again, is dishonest and deceiving, was merely an opinion of a former police officer. It stands as my advice to all motorists. I believe you should not display a handgun on your lap when being stopped by police. It is provocative and will cause the situation to become elevated. I clearly stated that there were reports out that suggested this had happened. I was very careful not to say it was a fact that this is what happened. You seemed just as careful not to mention me repeating that these reports may turn out to be factual and they may not turn out to be factual. Please show me where Voldermort stated that his comments may not be factual? He seemd to go out of his way to introduce each sentence with the word; "fact". Am I correct or not? Did he do that or not? Are you able to see the difference or not?

What's even worse is you ignore Voldemort's other post where he owns his mistake and poke him after. Then when someone else points out you're doing the same thing, you blame it on their reading comprehension. Humble yourself in the way Voldemort did and admit it's NOT "unusual behavior" and it may not have been a "threat" if the officer gave him orders since we don't have all the facts.

What's even worse? You are so bad at rushing to judgment, that is what is even worse. I approach a thread differently than you do. I carefully read people's posts. I start at page one, message one. Then, if I feel that message is worth responding to, I type a reply. Then I return to page one and read the next message, and reply if I feel I want to. It took me two days to get to page five of this thread. I hadn't gotten to the page where Voldermort stated that he had falsely stated that the information he wrote was a fact, was not fact. So I had not seen that post. But that is not the point. The way he first posted information as fact was inappropriate and I felt the need to focus on that. He allowed initial reports to frame his opinion of the shooting, despite the video not beginning until moments after the shooting. There was obvious speculation being called fact.

Now, are we clear? are you planning to apologize for your judging me in such a false manner and then repeating your unacceptable behavior by editing my quote and purposely removing the parts where I made it clear the facts are not know yet? Yes, you need to humble yourself and apologize.

 

[FlSnookman7]

Did anyone point out that a point might have been mistakenly made? Or is it a mistake to point that out?

I'll see your points and raise you a pot stirring liberal and a keyboard rambo.....lol.

 

[Dude653]

I could be wrong but something tells me that he most likely wasn't looking to get into a violent altercation with a police officer with his girlfriend and child in the car after they had just come back from purchasing groceries