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Hebrews 6:4-6 - not at it seems...
- Thread starter Katy-follower
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FreeNChrist
Guest
I have seen exchanges in the past where both were exploring their ideas or positions. Some
even hoped for understanding and used humour. Now it can go pear shaped, people get upset
because they wanted to be understood.
But some definately made their rules clear. Some in the past would cut people in two, who
would then get hurt, because they thought these people were friends. That soon became clear
as not true. After seeing this, I know how things get tough.
I find this funny as a proposition. I have listed what I believe on my blog post.
I have listed what I think of HG on my blog.
I am clear about it all, and I know why I believe what I do.
The reason I speculate because that is how I come to conclusions. I take an idea and then
follow it through. I might be wrong, go up wrong avenues but that is how you discover new
things. I am now surprised how talking about holiness, righteousness and purity is at our
heart. But that is the point. We need to grow and walk deeper with the Lord and discover
personally how to deepen our eternal fellowship. So I say Amen, halleluyah, for Great is the
Lord and great are His plans for us.
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UnderGrace
Guest
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1LonelyKnight
Guest
Grace and works:
I still see betwixt the bickering a lack of vision or acceptance that a worldly Gnosticism exists, starting in the churches that feigns grace and righteousness. A few examples would be the promotion of illegitimacy in building houses for unwed mothers to a pretense of pro life (pro fornication).
I see it in acceptance of divorce, remarriage and homosexuality.
I see it in immigration of pagans, voodoo, Islam, the Dhali Lama and ethnicity in the name of grace and righteousness but as a cover for chaos, a human shield, an economic gain.
These are not only continued sins but a policy of calling sin - grace and righteousness. These are the types of worldly (gnostic) actions that Paul was warning of.
We talk of the cross which Paul said to those perishing is foolish, but which Jesus affirmed in his death. Still we condone the fornication, abortion, illegitimacy and sexual disease rampant in the nation and the world, when their rightful place is at the cross. The US has a 40% illegitimacy rate folks and chaos all about. Sexual disease is treated like a science game of Pharmakeia with politicians from VP Biden to NY Governor Cuomo running around promoting the latest disease.
No righteousness, no grace - only works and pretense and acceptance of sin with the "grace" of a sin-pill as response.
I still see betwixt the bickering a lack of vision or acceptance that a worldly Gnosticism exists, starting in the churches that feigns grace and righteousness. A few examples would be the promotion of illegitimacy in building houses for unwed mothers to a pretense of pro life (pro fornication).
I see it in acceptance of divorce, remarriage and homosexuality.
I see it in immigration of pagans, voodoo, Islam, the Dhali Lama and ethnicity in the name of grace and righteousness but as a cover for chaos, a human shield, an economic gain.
These are not only continued sins but a policy of calling sin - grace and righteousness. These are the types of worldly (gnostic) actions that Paul was warning of.
We talk of the cross which Paul said to those perishing is foolish, but which Jesus affirmed in his death. Still we condone the fornication, abortion, illegitimacy and sexual disease rampant in the nation and the world, when their rightful place is at the cross. The US has a 40% illegitimacy rate folks and chaos all about. Sexual disease is treated like a science game of Pharmakeia with politicians from VP Biden to NY Governor Cuomo running around promoting the latest disease.
No righteousness, no grace - only works and pretense and acceptance of sin with the "grace" of a sin-pill as response.
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
One can be provocative without lieing about other people. I have no problem at all about being provocative, My problem is with the lies.
Slander is sin.. Whether your trying to be provocative or not does not matter, if your committing sin while doing it.
I would love to. I can't you wont let me. Because we have to correct your lies about other people or get you to stop talking about what other people believe, before we can even begin to do this.
That's the part you are not getting..
Which is why people have to over and over and over tell you to stop telling people what THEY believe (in your mind) and start discussing WHAT YOU BELIEVE.. (Not what you believe others think, but what you believe YOU THINK
Yeah I do take slander seriously.. As a man who talks about obedience, you should also.. But it is good to know you do not take slander too serious. it shows your true heart.. And proves those who claim you like to water sin own correct.
Picking on you?? I am confronting you for sin my friend,, I have not even begun to pick on you. If you would like, I will start doing that so you know what that is really like? I usually do not like to do those things though, it is no in my nature.
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
Its amazing, It is ok for them to do it. But when their medicine is returned to them, they get all puffy about it.
Hypocrisy at its best.
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
That's awesome, Maybe we can discuss it
That does not help anyone. All it does is turn people off. Because most of the information you got is wrong, and based on false information. This is what I mean, You need to stay away from this stuff. and just discuss what you believe.
Realy, Why do you never discuss that in any chat room. All you seem to want to discuss is what everyone else believes (or should I say, What YOU THINK everyone else believes, which 90 % of the time, is wrong.
Speculation is fine, But when you speculate about someone, and they tell your speculation about them is wrong. You need to change your speculation. To keep speculating what you have been told is wrong, turns speculation into slander.
More trying to misrepresent scripture by twisting words and meanings, that is right from the OSAS camp playbook, heard it all before. But you do not "lift up" a branch to take it away to be burned. Sorry, the context of the message proves the branches are not being lifted up, but taken away to be burned.
Word usage "taketh away"(25X) is correct in the KJV.....The KJV translates Strongs G142 in the following manner: take up (32x), take away (25x), take (25x), away with (5x), lift up (4x), bear (3x), miscellaneous (8x).
When someone does not remain in the faith they "abide not" in Christ, and thus they cannot bear fruit as Jesus said, and the result is being cut off, taken away and burned. Same message in Romans 11: 19-22, hard to not see those branches were "broken off" as is written,unless you are trying to pervert the message by ignoring the context and plain meanings of words in order to push a false doctrine like OSAS.
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Are you a branch with no fruit?
What happens to unfruitful branches? Jesus said the branches that don’t bear fruit are “lifted up” (Jn 15:2). They are not cut off – that is a bad translation that would’ve made no sense to a Mediterranean listener! A viticulturalist would never throw away a branch for that would be like amputating part of the vine. (If you’re thinking of suckers, see my note in the comments below.) Unfruitful branches are lifted out of the dirt and re-dressed so they can be nourished by the sun.
Sticking with that metaphor, the reason why some Christians are barren is that they’re facedown in the dirt and not looking at the Son. They’re busy, distracted, stressed, and have wandered from their protos agape, their primary love. When believers lose sight of Christ’s love they tend to become religious, just like the Ephesians. The next thing you know, they’re thinking that they have do stuff like obey His commandments to prove their love or earn His.
What is the remedy for unfruitful branches? God is. He is the Gardener who does the lifting up. He is not there to slash and burn but to prune and lift. As you begin to bear fruit it will be for His glory, not yours. If you’ve been distracted doing the dead works of religion, just stop and come back to your first love which is His love. His love is like food for us.
We are energized by it. I might tell myself that I am writing these posts because of my love for Him, but in truth, it’s His love for me that compels me to tell others the good news. I would not love Him except that He has first loved me (1 Jn 4:19).
Branches can not bear fruit but vines can and do so naturally, without any effort. As a branch you carry the nature of the True Vine in you and He will bear His fruit through you. He promised! Do you believe Him?
The Greek word airo that is sometimes translated in Jn 15:2 as “cut off” or “take away,” can also mean to elevate, raise up or lift up. Here are some of examples of Jesus using the same word elsewhere: “If any man would come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me” (Mt 16:24).
“They will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all” (Mk 16:18). “Rise, take up thy bed and walk” (Jn 5:8). It makes about as much sense to cut off your bed and walk as it does to cut off bits of an unproducing vine.
What happens to unfruitful branches? Jesus said the branches that don’t bear fruit are “lifted up” (Jn 15:2). They are not cut off – that is a bad translation that would’ve made no sense to a Mediterranean listener! A viticulturalist would never throw away a branch for that would be like amputating part of the vine. (If you’re thinking of suckers, see my note in the comments below.) Unfruitful branches are lifted out of the dirt and re-dressed so they can be nourished by the sun.
Sticking with that metaphor, the reason why some Christians are barren is that they’re facedown in the dirt and not looking at the Son. They’re busy, distracted, stressed, and have wandered from their protos agape, their primary love. When believers lose sight of Christ’s love they tend to become religious, just like the Ephesians. The next thing you know, they’re thinking that they have do stuff like obey His commandments to prove their love or earn His.
What is the remedy for unfruitful branches? God is. He is the Gardener who does the lifting up. He is not there to slash and burn but to prune and lift. As you begin to bear fruit it will be for His glory, not yours. If you’ve been distracted doing the dead works of religion, just stop and come back to your first love which is His love. His love is like food for us.
We are energized by it. I might tell myself that I am writing these posts because of my love for Him, but in truth, it’s His love for me that compels me to tell others the good news. I would not love Him except that He has first loved me (1 Jn 4:19).
Branches can not bear fruit but vines can and do so naturally, without any effort. As a branch you carry the nature of the True Vine in you and He will bear His fruit through you. He promised! Do you believe Him?
The Greek word airo that is sometimes translated in Jn 15:2 as “cut off” or “take away,” can also mean to elevate, raise up or lift up. Here are some of examples of Jesus using the same word elsewhere: “If any man would come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me” (Mt 16:24).
“They will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all” (Mk 16:18). “Rise, take up thy bed and walk” (Jn 5:8). It makes about as much sense to cut off your bed and walk as it does to cut off bits of an unproducing vine.
Luke 13:1-9 "There were present at that season some that told him of the Galilaeans, whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices.[SUP]2 [/SUP]And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things?
[SUP]3 [/SUP]I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem?
[SUP]5 [/SUP]I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]He spake also this parable; A certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard; and he came and sought fruit thereon, and found none.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Then said he unto the dresser of his vineyard, Behold, these three years I come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and find none: cut it down; why cumbereth it the ground?
[SUP]8 [/SUP]And he answering said unto him, Lord, let it alone this year also, till I shall dig about it, and dung it:
[SUP]9 [/SUP]And if it bear fruit, well: and if not, then after that thou shalt cut it down."
[SUP]3 [/SUP]I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem?
[SUP]5 [/SUP]I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]He spake also this parable; A certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard; and he came and sought fruit thereon, and found none.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Then said he unto the dresser of his vineyard, Behold, these three years I come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and find none: cut it down; why cumbereth it the ground?
[SUP]8 [/SUP]And he answering said unto him, Lord, let it alone this year also, till I shall dig about it, and dung it:
[SUP]9 [/SUP]And if it bear fruit, well: and if not, then after that thou shalt cut it down."
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FreeNChrist
Guest
Praise the Lord for He is King.
Oh Father, who is is heaven,
Awe be given to your name,
Your kingdom come,
Your will be done on earth as it is in heaven,
Give us this day our daily bread
For give us our sins and we forgive those who sin against us
Great Glory be given to you
Amen.
Oh Father, who is is heaven,
Awe be given to your name,
Your kingdom come,
Your will be done on earth as it is in heaven,
Give us this day our daily bread
For give us our sins and we forgive those who sin against us
Great Glory be given to you
Amen.
Amen...works-based salvationists see through the "lens" of always losing your salvation if you don't perform your own "righteous deeds " and so they see every scripture as saying that to them.
I believe we have to differentiate between "going to heaven to be with the Lord " salvation and - "being saved from the things that can destroy us here while being on this earth."
We can inherit now in this life things that are of the kingdom of God because the kingdom of God is within us...however if we don't have our minds renewed to the truth in Christ ( which includes living by the Spirit within us ) - we can not experience the things of the kingdom that are available to us believers.
Scripture uses the same Greek word - " salvation, saved " = wholeness, preservation, keep safe, deliverance, make well - for both being saved from things in this life and for going to be with the Lord for eternity.
If we don't understand this difference we will continually be mis-applying scriptures that talk about "being saved here in this life from things" and "going to be with the Lord".
There is eternal salvation and there is salvation from temporal things while on this earth. Confuse the two and you end up with a mixed up message of self-effort for going to heaven and only the blood of Jesus does that.
Jesus is either your Savior for going to be in heaven with Him or you are your own savior by helping Him. One is by grace through faith - the other is works-righteousness.
Are you a believer? Do you feel dry and empty?
Spend time knowing God loves and accepts you as you are.
Jesus came to die for you, to set you free, to lead you into the fulness of life.
It does not happen without you search out God and opening up your life to His
Spirit. For some it is only when they start to love and forgive those closest to
them does the words of Jesus come alive. You will only understand and connect
with Christ when you start to come alive to love.
It is hard to open up, and let light in to hurt and pain, but it is there healing is
need. So pray to the Lord to help you see the way, and He will open it up for you.
Spend time knowing God loves and accepts you as you are.
Jesus came to die for you, to set you free, to lead you into the fulness of life.
It does not happen without you search out God and opening up your life to His
Spirit. For some it is only when they start to love and forgive those closest to
them does the words of Jesus come alive. You will only understand and connect
with Christ when you start to come alive to love.
It is hard to open up, and let light in to hurt and pain, but it is there healing is
need. So pray to the Lord to help you see the way, and He will open it up for you.
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LaurenTM
Guest
it's out there for sure
all I did was address his accusations and he comes back with I'm trying to start trouble
the twisting is getting worse
do they have medicine for that? something about telling the truth?
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UnderGrace
Guest
Again key context..
Repent (change your mind) certainly, or Perish (not have eternal life) yup that is what sadly will happen.
Repent (one time event) Perish (one time event)
About losing salvation ... nope
Wow ....Jesus just keeps telling people what to do ...over and over again
Again eisegesis
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UnderGrace
Guest
PeterJenn,
Are you becoming a mystic?
You are almost there, agree with God that there is nothing you can do to earn your salvation and accept His death in your place for your sins. Lay down your self-effort in gaining salvation...it is the only way.
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LaurenTM
Guest
it's always about hell and damnation and taking scriptures addressed to non believers and twisting them to make it seem God is a big tease and dangles salvation like a carrot on a stick. go little donkey, walk on, and maybe, maybe one day, I'll let you have that carrot
I think David understood what you are saying very well and he was pre-Christ
he continually praised God for all God did for him and knew that God was his stronghold and tower of refuge in the here and now.
He also said, against you and you only have I sinned. He didn't take God for granted and neither do we
there is not such thing as living a sinless life. we run towards the mark as Paul said. being with God and resurrected to be with Him, is the completion of what He has begun in us, in those who believe, right now, right here
mess that up, and you end up with a split personality
no wonder God says that we must come to Him without doubt. this revolving door salvation has nothing to do with the gospel of Jesus Christ. It is a fabricated doctrine created to create doubt and resentment towards God
the same ole lie...has God really said...wearing new clothes...or maybe it's the Emperor's clothes
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