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:hrmm: though the lord's day is somekind of spiritual
as it is written
:read:
Revelation of John 1:10
I became in spirit on the Lord's day, and I heard [2sound 3behind 4me 1a great], as a trumpet,
Revelation of John 1:11
saying, What you see, write in a scroll, and send forth to the seven assemblies, in Ephesus, and in Smyrna, and in Pergamos, and in Thyatira, and in Sardis, and in Philadelphia, and in Laodicea!
:ty:
godbless us all always
as it is written
:read:
Revelation of John 1:10
I became in spirit on the Lord's day, and I heard [2sound 3behind 4me 1a great], as a trumpet,
Revelation of John 1:11
saying, What you see, write in a scroll, and send forth to the seven assemblies, in Ephesus, and in Smyrna, and in Pergamos, and in Thyatira, and in Sardis, and in Philadelphia, and in Laodicea!
:ty:
godbless us all always
how does that relate to sunday , and not the sabbath?
a vision of " the day of the Lord"
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:hrmm: as it is written
:read:
Mateo: 12. 1. At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day through the corn; and his disciples were an hungred, and began to pluck the ears of corn, and to eat.
2. But when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day.
3. But he said unto them, Have ye not read what David did, when he was an hungred, and they that were with him;
4. How he entered into the house of God, and did eat the shewbread, which was not lawful for him to eat, neither for them which were with him, but only for the priests?
5. Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless?
6. But I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple.
7. But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless.
8. For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.
9. And when he was departed thence, he went into their synagogue:
10. And, behold, there was a man which had his hand withered. And they asked him, saying, Is it lawful to heal on the sabbath days? that they might accuse him.
11. And he said unto them, What man shall there be among you, that shall have one sheep, and if it fall into a pit on the sabbath day, will he not lay hold on it, and lift it out?
12. How much then is a man better than a sheep? Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days.
13. Then saith he to the man, Stretch forth thine hand. And he stretched it forth; and it was restored whole, like as the other.
14. Then the Pharisees went out, and held a council against him, how they might destroy him.
15. But when Jesus knew it, he withdrew himself from thence: and great multitudes followed him, and he healed them all;
16. And charged them that they should not make him known:
17. That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying,
18. Behold my servant, whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall shew judgment to the Gentiles.
19. He shall not strive, nor cry; neither shall any man hear his voice in the streets.
20. A bruised reed shall he not break, and smoking flax shall he not quench, till he send forth judgment unto victory.
21. And in his name shall the Gentiles trust.
~;> YOU CAN READ THE REST OF THE STORY
FOR IT IS A GOOD STORY AS IT IS WRITTEN
:ty:
godbless us all always
G
Gigantor
Guest
AMEN Brother! When YHWH, Yeshua before he became flesh, sanctified the seventh day and made it holy (Genesis 2:2) there were only Adam and Eve. Religionists also try to rebrand the Levitical Feasts, as Jewish Feasts ignoring the scriptures.
[FONT="]LEV 23:1 And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, [/FONT][FONT="][/FONT]2 [FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]“Speak to the children of Israel, and say to them: ‘The feasts of the [/FONT][FONT="]Lord[/FONT][FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif], which you shall proclaim [/FONT][FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]to be holy convocations, these [/FONT][FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]are [/FONT]My feasts. [FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]How do we get from my MY FEASTS to Only Jewish Feasts and especially in the "Feast of Tabernacles" being a foreshadowing of Yeshua's return.[/FONT]
That which is first is natural,then that which is spiritual.
It is spiritual in the New Testament,so we observe a spiritual rest by the Spirit.
[SUP]
14 [/SUP]Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;[SUP]15 [/SUP]And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
Jesus took the physical Sabbaths away,but since the ten commandments are laws of love,towards God,and people,we still have to obey the Sabbath.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:
[SUP]11 [/SUP]For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.
When we receive the Spirit,we are observing the Sabbath,which is a spiritual rest now.
The physical Sabbath was given to Israel according to the making of this physical world,a physical rest.
Jesus went away to prepare a place for the saints,so the spiritual Sabbath was given to the Church to the making of the spiritual world,a spiritual rest by the Spirit.
Well so now that we have two apposing views it comes down to the word to tell us who is correct. So then let us settle this not with opinion but scripture. Sound fair?
You have quoted:
Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
I have suggested that correct understanding of the Sabbath as found in the Old Testament would show that the 7th day Sabbath does not fit the description "shadow of things to come". and that the feast Sabbath does fit that description.
So then I will show that this is indeed the case.
So for my first point I will point out that there are indeed Feast Sabbaths:
I will try keep this short so I will only give one example to make the case.
In Leviticus 23 there are mentioned a lot of the Sabbaths of Israel. The first is the 7th day Sabbath that takes place every 7 days throughout the year:
Lev 23:3 Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein: it is the sabbath of the LORD in all your dwellings.
Notice it is referred to as a holy convocation, So we know that the words holy convocation connect with Sabbath they are the same thing.
Just to show this once more I will now show this with a yearly Sabbath on the day of atonement.
Lev 23:27 Also on the tenth day of this seventh month there shall be a day of atonement: it shall be an holy convocation unto you; and ye shall afflict your souls, and offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD.
Lev 23:28 And ye shall do no work in that same day: for it is a day of atonement, to make an atonement for you before the LORD your God.
but notice how it is worded in Lev 16 concerning the day of atonement:
Lev 16:30 For on that day shall the priest make an atonement for you, to cleanse you, that ye may be clean from all your sins before the LORD.
Lev 16:31 It shall be a sabbath of rest unto you, and ye shall afflict your souls, by a statute for ever.
So we note again that the words holy convocation connected with ceasing to work are a Sabbath. You will note that there are many Sabbaths found in Lev 23, I have on quoted the 7th day Sabbath and the Atonement feast Sabbath.
One happens every 7 days throughout the year, 7th day Sabbath.
The other happens once a year every year, Feast Sabbath.
You will note that both have the same name. So it then stands to reason that one must understand the purpose of each in order to know if Paul was referring to one or the other or both. To be ignorant of this leaves your understanding of Paul as pure guess.
Now I hope that its pretty plain that all the feasts were centred around the sacrifices, but to make sure I will illustrate concerning the Day of Atonement.
Lev 16:27 And the bullock for the sin offering, and the goat for the sin offering, whose blood was brought in to make atonement in the holy place, shall one carry forth without the camp; and they shall burn in the fire their skins, and their flesh, and their dung.
Lev 16:30 For on that day shall the priest make an atonement for you, to cleanse you, that ye may be clean from all your sins before the LORD.
Notice it surrounds the idea of being cleansed of our sins by blood. I dare say I don't need to prove that such things are indeed a shadow of the real Messiah that was still to come at this point in Lev 16. So clearly such a feast would cease at the time the true sacrifice/Jesus was crucified for our sins. Thus Christ is literally the body of this shadow Sabbath found in the Day of Atonement.
So this very easily could and does fit what Paul said in Colossians.
But can the same be said of the 7th day Sabbath?
Well first we note that the 7th day Sabbath was mentioned first in Lev 23. But that it is different and separate is easily shown not only by the fact that it is weekly other than yearly. But also that it was separated from the feast Sabbaths by God Himself.
Well that is easy, Leviticus was written by Moses which was given as a law to the Tribe of Levi as instructions on how to run the feasts and sanctuary etc.
But where was the 7th day Sabbath?
Exo 20:1 And God spake all these words, saying,
Exo 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
God himself spoke the 7th day Sabbath directly to them all.
Exo 31:18 And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God.
God did not leave it to Moses to write the 7th day Sabbath but wrote it Himself. and then it was stored where?
Deu 10:5 And I turned myself and came down from the mount, and put the tables in the ark which I had made; and there they be, as the LORD commanded me.
They were stored not with men but in the very presence of God. But recorded in both the instruction to the tribe of Levi and also the book Deut. to be read to all Israel.
So we can clearly See God distinguishes between the 7th day Sabbath and the yearly feast Sabbaths.
We have established that the yearly feast Sabbaths were shadows of the true sacrifice of which Christ is the body.
But last we examine what the purpose of God was in giving the weekly 7th day Sabbath.
Exo 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Exo 20:9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
Exo 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
God does not leave us to guess, but rather tells us plainly why we should remember it. Because that he rested on the 7th day from creation the other 6 days. Then he blessed the 7th day and he set it apart from the 6 making it holy.
All the work of God. In fact we note that God points us not forward to some work that will be done, but backwards to a work already accomplished namely creation.
Here we find it written in the law:
Gen 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
Gen 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
So it is clearly seen that the 7th day Sabbath is no shadow pointing forward. But rather a memorial of a finished work of God.
So then it is most clear to any honest student of the word of God that there are in fact two types of Sabbaths.
1, feast Sabbaths which were shadows of the true sacrifice/Jesus.
2, 7th day Sabbath which is memorial in nature of a finished work in creation/Jesus created us.
One then in nature would pass away while the other in nature could never pass away.
It is therefore seen clearly that while the feast Sabbaths easily fit into Paul's points in Colossians 2. It is also easily seen that the 7th day Sabbath could not possible be what Paul had in mind. For Paul was a teacher of the Scriptures.
We find then that it is indeed a lack in understanding the very scriptures/Old Testament that Paul and all the apostles used to defend Christ, that leads to a misuse of the writings of Paul. J
It is then clear that those who use Col and Paul to suggest the 7th day Sabbath is done away with are indeed ignorant of the very scriptures Paul taught from. And thus are in error concerning the new testament which is in harmony with the Old.
Blessings.
Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, [Concerning] the feasts of the LORD, which ye shall proclaim [to be] holy convocations, [even] these [are] my feasts. Leviticus 23:2 (KJV)
(not Israel's feasts. They are the LORD's feasts.)
Rev 1:10
"On the Lord's Day I was in the Spirit, and I heard behind me a loud voice like a trumpet..."
In Greek there is "kyriake", which means Sunday.
Not by a long shot:
G2960
kuriakos (koo-ree-ak-os') adj.
1. belonging to the Lord (Jehovah or Jesus)
Feast Sabbath is a religious festival, i.e. its what Paul mentioned in the first part.
He continues with the monthy held things and ends with weekly held thing.
In this way he was talking about every kind of feast or holy day.
Col 2:16
Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival (every year), a New Moon celebration (every month) or a Sabbath day (every week).
And now find how is sunday in Greek.
2960 (kyriakós) is used of the Lord's Supper (i.e. "communion," the Lord's table) and "the Lord's day" (Sunday) as the appointed day for rest and worship. See 1 Cor 11:20; Rev 1:10.
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No probs I understand your point. I know there are many here who limit these things to simply human things.
I have to assume that you have chosen ignorance by this answer. That is fine that is your choice. But if you actually looked at what I posted you would see that your reasoning is a fabrication of your own opinion that seems to make sense but in fact does not fit scripture.
Take note that your so called pattern does not take into account scripture on those points. It does not take into account that everything mentioned in those passages are connected to the Feasts of the Lord given to Israel. It is simply your opinion that you can not back up.
PS I am not meaning this to sound rude or condescending. So please don't read it that way. I just point out facts. If what I said in my post about the Sabbaths are true then there is no way you would respond this way. It is opinion you have given, But scripture speaks otherwise.
It has been demonstrated that there are two types of Sabbaths, one weekly and others yearly.
The yearly ones are shadows of the sacrifice of Christ and the weekly one is a memorial. That is scriptural fact that you have not been able to speak to. Thus I assume you have no argument from scripture to refute these things. And mere opinion bares no sway on the matter.
So being that you are seemingly not willing to address the scriptures on this issue I guess we are done.
Blessings.
By the way you assume week because you assume the 7th day Sabbath instead of the feast Sabbaths. It has been demonstrated that Paul could not possible have in mind the 7th but does have in mine the yearly feast Sabbaths. It will also be noted that all the things addressed here including eating or drinking is connected to the feasts.
But as I said I will not pursue this further as you seem unwilling to address scripture.
So Ill leave it there.
1. In your interpretation Paul is saying the same thing twice.
2. The word Sabbath was (except of the books of Moses) used for weekly Sabbath, only. Always.
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bible says in future mill. , Israel shall lothe themselves for Sabbath breaking
Ezekiel 20:21
the children rebelled against me,” continued God, through the Prophet Ezekiel.
“They polluted [MY sabbaths].…” (verse 21).
He scattered them, in national captivity and slavery (verse 23).
“Because they had not executed MY judgments, but had despised MY statutes,
and had polluted MY sabbaths, and their eyes were after their FATHERS’ idols”
“And I will bring you out from the people, and will gather you out of the countries
wherein ye are scattered…with fury poured out. And I will bring you into
the wilderness of the people [coming exodus—Jeremiah 23:7-8],
and there will I plead with you face to face” (Ezekiel 20:34-35).
“Like as I pleaded with your fathers in the wilderness of the land of Egypt,
SO will I plead with you, saith the Lord God.… And I will purge out from among
you the rebels, and them that transgress against me…
and YE shall know that I am the Lord” (verses 36-38).
43And there shall ye remember your ways, and all your doings, wherein ye have been defiled;
and ye shall [lothe yourselves] in your own sight for all your evils that ye have committed.
44And ye shall know that I am the Lord, when I have wrought with you for my name's sake,
not according to your wicked ways, nor according to your corrupt doings, O ye house of Israel,
saith the Lord God.
Ezekiel36
21But I had pity for mine holy name, which the house of Israel had profaned
among the heathen, whither they went.Therefore say unto the house of Israel,
Thus saith the Lord God; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but
for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went.
23And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen,
which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that
I am the Lord, saith the Lord God, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes.
24For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries,
and will bring you into your own land.25Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you,
and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
26A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will
take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27And I will put my spirit within you, and [cause you to walk] in [my statutes],
and ye[ shall] keep [my judgments], and do them.
28And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people,
and I will be your God. 29I will also save you from all your uncleannesses:
and I will call for the corn, and will increase it, and lay no famine upon you.
30And I will multiply the fruit of the tree, and the increase of the field, that ye
shall receive no more reproach of famine among the heathen.
31Then shall ye remember your own evil ways, and your doings that were not good,
and [shall lothe yourselves] in your own sight for your iniquities and for your abominations.
38As the holy flock, as the flock of Jerusalem in her solemn feasts;
so shall the waste cities be filled with flocks of men: and they shall know that I am the Lord.
And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another,
and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord.
Ezekiel 20:21
the children rebelled against me,” continued God, through the Prophet Ezekiel.
“They polluted [MY sabbaths].…” (verse 21).
He scattered them, in national captivity and slavery (verse 23).
“Because they had not executed MY judgments, but had despised MY statutes,
and had polluted MY sabbaths, and their eyes were after their FATHERS’ idols”
“And I will bring you out from the people, and will gather you out of the countries
wherein ye are scattered…with fury poured out. And I will bring you into
the wilderness of the people [coming exodus—Jeremiah 23:7-8],
and there will I plead with you face to face” (Ezekiel 20:34-35).
“Like as I pleaded with your fathers in the wilderness of the land of Egypt,
SO will I plead with you, saith the Lord God.… And I will purge out from among
you the rebels, and them that transgress against me…
and YE shall know that I am the Lord” (verses 36-38).
43And there shall ye remember your ways, and all your doings, wherein ye have been defiled;
and ye shall [lothe yourselves] in your own sight for all your evils that ye have committed.
44And ye shall know that I am the Lord, when I have wrought with you for my name's sake,
not according to your wicked ways, nor according to your corrupt doings, O ye house of Israel,
saith the Lord God.
Ezekiel36
21But I had pity for mine holy name, which the house of Israel had profaned
among the heathen, whither they went.Therefore say unto the house of Israel,
Thus saith the Lord God; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but
for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went.
23And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen,
which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that
I am the Lord, saith the Lord God, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes.
24For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries,
and will bring you into your own land.25Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you,
and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
26A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will
take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27And I will put my spirit within you, and [cause you to walk] in [my statutes],
and ye[ shall] keep [my judgments], and do them.
28And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people,
and I will be your God. 29I will also save you from all your uncleannesses:
and I will call for the corn, and will increase it, and lay no famine upon you.
30And I will multiply the fruit of the tree, and the increase of the field, that ye
shall receive no more reproach of famine among the heathen.
31Then shall ye remember your own evil ways, and your doings that were not good,
and [shall lothe yourselves] in your own sight for your iniquities and for your abominations.
38As the holy flock, as the flock of Jerusalem in her solemn feasts;
so shall the waste cities be filled with flocks of men: and they shall know that I am the Lord.
And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another,
and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord.
Correct me if I have misunderstood you here but it seems your point is that except for all the places where the sabbath is yearly the Sabbath is weekly always. Well sure that was one of my points. This hardly helps your argument.
your first point shows you apply Greek liner thinking to an Easter mind set. That will not help you at all. Have you never seen things repeated in Scripture? Read Jesus, the Apostles and the prophets. Its very common to do so. It is also important to note that while everything mentioned in that verse is found in the feasts, they are different aspects of those feasts. So it is not a simple repeat. The feast Sabbaths are not the feast itself but part of the feast. Paul says this because the festivals apply but so does every part of that festival. Paul is demonstrating that every aspect of the festival is fulfilled in Christ.
You have yet to address your big problem in what the scriptures teach concerning different Sabbaths. Which as I have stated make it abundantly clear that Paul could not possibly be speaking about the weekly Sabbath.
You have assumed it goes yearly monthly weekly. However Scripture I have given clearly show that you have assumed the weekly Sabbath. which is not possible according to an understanding of the Sabbaths as seen in original post.