Bearing fruit
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U
Well thank you for the clarification, I think I understand now.
I will never support what you teach, however, I pray someday someone here will be able to persuade you because it does not get any clearer than this.
Romans 8:38 [SUP]38 [/SUP]For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
[SUP]39 [/SUP]Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
and.....
Seven eternal promises about for those who are born again and our future....
1. God would have to forsake us, when he said he wouldn’t (Heb 13:5)
2. God would have to cast us out, when he said he wouldn’t (John 6:37)
3. God would have to condemn us, when he said he wouldn’t (Rom 8:1,34)
4. God would have to withdraw his Spirit, when he said he wouldn’t (John 14:16-17)
5. God would have to remember our sins, when he said he wouldn’t (Jer 31:34, Heb 10:17)
6. God would have to forget that we are his children, when he said he wouldn’t (Is 49:15)
7. God would have to blot our names out of the book of life, when he said he wouldn’t (Rev 3:5)
I will never support what you teach, however, I pray someday someone here will be able to persuade you because it does not get any clearer than this.
Romans 8:38 [SUP]38 [/SUP]For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
[SUP]39 [/SUP]Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
and.....
Seven eternal promises about for those who are born again and our future....
1. God would have to forsake us, when he said he wouldn’t (Heb 13:5)
2. God would have to cast us out, when he said he wouldn’t (John 6:37)
3. God would have to condemn us, when he said he wouldn’t (Rom 8:1,34)
4. God would have to withdraw his Spirit, when he said he wouldn’t (John 14:16-17)
5. God would have to remember our sins, when he said he wouldn’t (Jer 31:34, Heb 10:17)
6. God would have to forget that we are his children, when he said he wouldn’t (Is 49:15)
7. God would have to blot our names out of the book of life, when he said he wouldn’t (Rev 3:5)
You can tell that these are not believers in Christ because Jesus Himself said in verse 23 "I never knew you"...
...and it is also plain that the context is Jesus describing false prophets in verse 15. Context is so important because we can make the bible say anything we want by taking scriptures out of it's context.
"I never knew you "...these people were not believers...( Jesus never said " I used to know you once."..He said I NEVER knew you at all...).
Everyone when they see Jesus will call Him Lord.....Jesus said that He "knows" His sheep so those in Matt. 7:19-33 are not true Christians.
John 10:14 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP]I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.
...and it is also plain that the context is Jesus describing false prophets in verse 15. Context is so important because we can make the bible say anything we want by taking scriptures out of it's context.
"I never knew you "...these people were not believers...( Jesus never said " I used to know you once."..He said I NEVER knew you at all...).
Everyone when they see Jesus will call Him Lord.....Jesus said that He "knows" His sheep so those in Matt. 7:19-33 are not true Christians.
John 10:14 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP]I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.
It is a future even. These wolves in sheep's clothing think they are real believers. Oh they might have a mental belief, but they destroy the instruction book. I can assure you Satan believes, but he did not want the rules. Matthew 7 indicates these people think they are real believers. They ask the questions: "Lord, Lord, we prophesy in your name.", "Lord, Lord, we cast out demons in your name".
I saw that you actually asked him and then you copy pasted his words in post #182 and then answered according to those while kicking in a few others as to why you didnt believe his, but it was as if he disagreed with the verses you posted where I was just asking where is that then?
I believe he agrees with Heb 10:39 here
Heb 10:39 [FONT="]But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul[/FONT]
I believe he agrees with Heb 10:39 here
Heb 10:39 [FONT="]But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul[/FONT]
The true born again believer in Christ is the one Christ "knows". That's why Paul said in a few of his epistles - "examine yourselves to see if you are in the faith"....there are in the church unbelievers as well as believers as well as some coming in to pervert the gospel of the grace of Christ.
It's like this to this day. There are still Judaizers coming in after the gospel is preached to try to get them to go back to Moses's law.
As far as people casting out demons. Jesus said to the Pharisees " If you say I cast our demons by Beelzebul, how do your sons cat them out?. They will judge you.
Matthew 12:27 (NASB)
[SUP]27 [/SUP] "If I by Beelzebul cast out demons, by whom do your sons cast them out? For this reason they will be your judges.
It's like this to this day. There are still Judaizers coming in after the gospel is preached to try to get them to go back to Moses's law.
As far as people casting out demons. Jesus said to the Pharisees " If you say I cast our demons by Beelzebul, how do your sons cat them out?. They will judge you.
Matthew 12:27 (NASB)
[SUP]27 [/SUP] "If I by Beelzebul cast out demons, by whom do your sons cast them out? For this reason they will be your judges.
Let's look at one of those verses which you injected your own bias ideas into....Rev 3-5
You said.... Did God say He would not blot any names out of His book of Life? Let's see...
Revelation 3 "And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead.[SUP]2 [/SUP]Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels."
Did you catch that? There were a few names that had not defiled their garments and were worthy to walk with Jesus in white, and he that overcame would not have his name blotted out, not that no ones name would be blotted out. That view of yours puts a bias twist on scripture, which is not uncommon for Hyper grace followers.
Proof of names being blotted out is shown here....
Exodus 32:33
And the Lord said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.
Psalm 69:28
Let them be blotted out of the book of the living, and not be written with the righteous.
So your proof is no proof at all.
You said.... Did God say He would not blot any names out of His book of Life? Let's see...
Revelation 3 "And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead.[SUP]2 [/SUP]Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels."
Did you catch that? There were a few names that had not defiled their garments and were worthy to walk with Jesus in white, and he that overcame would not have his name blotted out, not that no ones name would be blotted out. That view of yours puts a bias twist on scripture, which is not uncommon for Hyper grace followers.
Proof of names being blotted out is shown here....
Exodus 32:33
And the Lord said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.
Psalm 69:28
Let them be blotted out of the book of the living, and not be written with the righteous.
So your proof is no proof at all.
Yes, speaks of departing from the faith and elsewhere os having an evil heart of unbelief that departs from God
Heb 3:12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
It speaks of that falling away by reason of transgression as were with Judas who was called the son of perdition and them which draw back unto perdition likewise.
Heb 3:12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
It speaks of that falling away by reason of transgression as were with Judas who was called the son of perdition and them which draw back unto perdition likewise.
Luke 6:46 is a different scripture and context then Matthew 7:15-23,, Stay on course here...Jesus is talking in Matt 7:15 about false prophets. - unbelievers in Christ. You can tell false prophets by their fruits.
Everyone will call Him Lord when they see Him....because He is Lord....no one makes Jesus the Lord.
Everyone will call Him Lord when they see Him....because He is Lord....no one makes Jesus the Lord.
U
Yup, saved versus unsaved.
[SUP]The writer of Hebrews is telling them not to lose hope and to remain confident because....
[/SUP]
[SUP]38 [/SUP]Now the just shall live by faith (the Israelites that having come to the saving knowledge of Jesus, those that believed)
but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him. (those who did not come forward and believe but rather drew back and decided not to believe)
[SUP]39 [/SUP]But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; (we are not like the unbelievers who draw back and do not accept or believe on Jesus)
but of them that believe to the saving of the soul. (we are the ones that do believe therefore we are saved)
[SUP]The writer of Hebrews is telling them not to lose hope and to remain confident because....
[/SUP]
[SUP]38 [/SUP]Now the just shall live by faith (the Israelites that having come to the saving knowledge of Jesus, those that believed)
but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him. (those who did not come forward and believe but rather drew back and decided not to believe)
[SUP]39 [/SUP]But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; (we are not like the unbelievers who draw back and do not accept or believe on Jesus)
but of them that believe to the saving of the soul. (we are the ones that do believe therefore we are saved)
It all boils down to that some think they can lose salvation by what they do or don't do. These see a lost of salvation for "going to heaven" when they read scriptures that are referring to the quality of life here on this earth being missed because of behavior. These look at all scripture through the lens that they can lose salvation if they don't maintain their own righteousness. They are free to believe whatever they want.
There are others that believe Jesus when He said that "No one can pluck them out of My hand nor the Father's hand" and "I will send the Holy Spirit to be in you and with you forever". - they believe in what Jesus said.
That's the gist of the whole bearing fruit thing - one sees lost of salvation for going to heaven in scriptures - the other person looks through the lens of the finished work of Christ looking for His grace and love to transform us so that He can bear His fruit in and through us to a hurt and dying world.
There are others that believe Jesus when He said that "No one can pluck them out of My hand nor the Father's hand" and "I will send the Holy Spirit to be in you and with you forever". - they believe in what Jesus said.
That's the gist of the whole bearing fruit thing - one sees lost of salvation for going to heaven in scriptures - the other person looks through the lens of the finished work of Christ looking for His grace and love to transform us so that He can bear His fruit in and through us to a hurt and dying world.