Repentance: A Boast in the Flesh

[FreeNChrist]

and this would explain why Jesus had to become a curse for us, and redeem us from the curse of the law correct?

Right. Because cursed is anyone who doesn't do "everything" contained in the book of Law....that's us. That's everyone.

 

[ladylynn]

I too had the issue where I kept hearing my father and others in my church tell people to stop sin. Or else. They sort of had it, we stop sin, then God saves us, You can not come to god in your sin (this was after I was saved, and got a little older where I could hang wiht the adults, I did not see this when I received Christ in my heart)

I saw people had to heal themselves first, then maybe just maybe God would save you. If you did a certain particular sin, You can;t be saved, or you would not struggle with that sin etc etc (to them, it did not seem to matter the sin of pride, arrogance and all this hidden sins they had)

I saw people fall left and right, When i left for the military, I felt a freedom, I am finally free of th erules and regulations I find it impossible to keep. I rebelled and made many mistake.

Many years later, After my wife divorced me, I left the church for good. WHy bother. no matter how hard I try to do what God wants, I am an utter failure, I failed even in my marriage (a mortal sin in my church) so why continue.

Then I found grace, and what it really means.. I saw lives change from the inside out.. I still struggle because I was in it too long, But I am being healed. PRAISE GOD.

Dear EG! So many of us have the same story you just posted! It is just shocking how many of us have been trained to walk the Christian life that way. It's a shock to me each time I hear yet another believer (even for the 100th time) tell the same life story because I thought I was the only one but it's the story of hundreds of people here.

Particularly your post pulled out memories of my saying the same thing.."why bother., no matter how hard I try to do what God wants, I am an utter failure., I failed even in my marriage so why continue"

THEN I FOUND GRACE AND WHAT IT REALLY MEANS!!!!!!!!! YAAAAHOOOO we change from the inside out because it is God who works in us to will and to DO of HIS GOOD PLEASURE. We are beloved children of God and He sent His Son who took care of the sin problem for us and gave us His own righteousness. AND THEN AS IF THAT WERE NOT ENOUGH., He gave us His Holy Spirit to seal us and be with us to comfort teach and guide us through this life in our pilgrim journey. We are loved and cared for and NEVER ALONE.

I've been so joyful in this truth and now walking in the guidance and care of the Good Shepherd. He pulled me up from the depths of a failed life and put my feet on high ground! Only the grace of God in Christ can take undeserving sinners and make them righteous sons who are daily blessed. Only Grace can do this. We are so loved by our Father and we have only just begun to see. There is tons and tons more of the knowledge of Him to learn and experience. I'm very thankful for God's hand of blessing on you EG and am rejoicing with you and the others here who know what God's grace can do in our lives.

Psalm 23 is not for after we die!


The Lord is my Shepherd [to feed, to guide and to shield me],
I shall not want.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]
He lets me lie down in green pastures;
He leads me beside the still and quiet waters.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]
He refreshes and restores my soul (life);
He leads me in the paths of righteousness
for His name’s sake.

[SUP]4 [/SUP]
Even though I walk through the [sunless] [SUP][a][/SUP]valley of the shadow of death,
I fear no evil, for You are with me;
Your rod [to protect] and Your staff [to guide], they comfort and console me.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]
You prepare a table before me in the presence of my enemies.
You have anointed and refreshed my head with [SUP][b][/SUP]oil;
My cup overflows.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]
Surely goodness and mercy and unfailing love shall follow me all the days of my life,
And I shall dwell forever [throughout all my days] in the house and in the presence of the Lord.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Right. Because cursed is anyone who doesn't do "everything" contained in the book of Law....that's us. That's everyone.

that was everyone last year, Right now, and a million years from now if this sinful earth is still in existence. Amen..

The first step in repentance in my view is realising this, Because by this understanding, you can be humble, and not allow any part of (self) to think it is ok.. and cna make it on its own.

 

[PeterJens]

A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.
John 13:34-35

This is a difficult verse. It is almost impossible. If you live your lives on the outside alone, then the
emotional flow on the inside with never match up.

May the Lord make your love increase and overflow for each other and for everyone else, just as ours does for you.
1 Thess 3:12

What has been described by some here sounds like PTSD legalism trauma.

My background is probably the opposite. I come from a place where no clear rules or
emotional expression, meant it was hard to define anything or know where things lay.

So righteousness, dependability, faithfullness, love, honesty, openness are like life
itself.

Now probably to legalist PTSD sufferers I must come across like condemnation, but
to me you come across as rebellious against the very things life and love are built on.

In my world it is saying these principles matter, are a backbone, a security in an insecure
environment. For those with condemnation and OCD self persecution, just reading the
sermon on the mount brings condemnation. It is no wonder we do not get on, or even
properly understand the emotional life in the other, because it is so different.

I am truly sorry, because I did not know or quite understand the burden you carry.
And you probably do not quite grasp the impact on an immoral unbounded society where
taking drugs is just accepted behaviour, and sleeping around is the norm, no standards is
capitulation. This is the world of Corinth and the obvious sins they fell into.

 

[p_rehbein]

e...........t

I don't know that you are, but if you are still in contact with Brother dcon.......please let him know that he is missed. I don't care how many times he and I butted heads here, I loved and respected him as a fellow believer and brother in Christ. Let him know he is missed.

Thanks and God bless

 

[Grace777x70]

Repentance from Legalism:

Legalism in the biblical sense of the word - is any attitude or belief that human merit can produce, prove, or preserve for oneself an acceptable standing with God.

Whenever our assurance of salvation rests upon our "performance" rather than upon the "promises" of Jesus - we are in big trouble and we have fallen from grace.

 

[1ofthem]

What do you mean clean ourselves and He cleans us up?

Your sentence suggests two positions only. I know from personal experience, and listening to
many others, nothing is so simple or as polarised as this.

I think of a vision this muslim man had in prison. He met Christ. He was struck by love and holiness,
his own sin and failure and Jesus's forgiveness and acceptance.

We are people who are conscious as part of a human, but what is "us" and what is part of the system
is not clear. Equally when we respond to the Lord, what is our response and His work in us, is unclear.

Some appear fascinated with the idea of self and God, as if one is evil and the other good, when we
are merely talking about identity. But if your goal is loss of self and integration into God, then it would
explain a lot of the language and ideas. My understanding of God is He desires we are mature loving
individuals in communion with Him, but also distinct, very much like Christ and the Father.

Repentance in this context is the start of acknowledging debt and a problem and a turning away from
it, actively doing righteous acts.

I can tell you my story and what I went through with that…I was a sinner but the Lord was calling me. I felt conviction and wanted to be saved. There was a void and emptiness in my life that nothing could fill. I had plenty of friends, money, did what I wanted and had a life that people in the world would consider good, but none of that made me happy. I came to a place where I realized that only Jesus could feel the void and emptiness in my life.

The enemy knew that I was ready to repent and accept Jesus in my life so then he came at me with your not good enough or worthy, and why would Jesus save you in the condition that you are in? He kept telling me I had better clean myself up before you go before the Lord and ask for his help. Because the enemy knew I couldn’t do it on my own and he knew the only help for me was in the blood of the Lamb and his salvation.

But yet, I listened to the enemy and I tried to stop sinning on my own so that I would be good enough to go before God and ask him forgiveness. The problem with that was…I couldn’t stop sinning on my own, and I was never going to be able to make myself good enough or worthy of redemption. But thank God, he finally helped me to realize that I had to take it all to Jesus and ask him to cleanse me and make me whole.

And when I went before him and asked for his forgiveness, he didn’t turn me away because I was a sinner and unworthy. He washed me in his blood and forgave me of my sins and through his forgiveness, grace, and mercy I now walk with him in the newness of life. Old things have passed away and behold all things have become new. He helps me to carry my cross and strengthens me daily.

 

[PeterJens]

I have a thought.

Those from a legalist background, trained in how to self condemn, to be sensitive to any
flaw or fault, perceived or otherwise, do you love and accept yourself?

I saw a film called "Good Will hunting" At the end of the film a point is made, "It is not your
fault." So much in our lives, is not our fault, it is where we are born, how we grow, who are
family are, how are schools and experiences developed.

Out of all this, the amount we can effect or even choose is very limited.
It seems in opening up to the Lord it is also to believe, yes I am worthy of being saved.
Now what I mean by "worthy", I mean you are someone God loves and can love.

So many here are seriously broken and beaten up people. The trauma and difficulties
you have had I have never come close to. So I am humbled by your testimonies.

What I am trying to convey is Jesus loves you, you, the real you, not hidden behind
Christ, or seen only through a filter, but you in all your states and confusion.
There is literally nothing new to the Lord, and nowhere the Lords love cannot go.

But part of the real walk with Christ is accepting He does love you. The cross says
it all. It is what has driven me most of my life, and trying to find words to let what
he put within, without. We have a great Lord, and a great gospel, and a great
eternity.

 

[Jimbone]

A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.
John 13:34-35

This is a difficult verse. It is almost impossible. If you live your lives on the outside alone, then the
emotional flow on the inside with never match up.

May the Lord make your love increase and overflow for each other and for everyone else, just as ours does for you.
1 Thess 3:12

What has been described by some here sounds like PTSD legalism trauma.

My background is probably the opposite. I come from a place where no clear rules or
emotional expression, meant it was hard to define anything or know where things lay.

So righteousness, dependability, faithfullness, love, honesty, openness are like life
itself.

Now probably to legalist PTSD sufferers I must come across like condemnation, but
to me you come across as rebellious against the very things life and love are built on.

In my world it is saying these principles matter, are a backbone, a security in an insecure
environment. For those with condemnation and OCD self persecution, just reading the
sermon on the mount brings condemnation. It is no wonder we do not get on, or even
properly understand the emotional life in the other, because it is so different.

I am truly sorry, because I did not know or quite understand the burden you carry.
And you probably do not quite grasp the impact on an immoral unbounded society where
taking drugs is just accepted behaviour, and sleeping around is the norm, no standards is
capitulation. This is the world of Corinth and the obvious sins they fell into.

Both reasons are why I am so very thankful I was not raised in the church at all. I wasn't really swayed one way or the other by anyone, I just started liking the whole "Idea" of Jesus, but really looked at Christianity as a whole like more of a philosophy that if lived by would result in a descent life. I tend to agree more with how you look at it, but I can understand the other side of this argument as well. The biggest problem I have with the whole "Hyper Grace" view is how unbelievers and false converts may misunderstand a lot of what is taught.

I actually agree with very much of what is said, especially by the people here (not so much with the "teachers" that they endorse), but I really feel that's because I already have been given eyes to see and ears to hear. An example is before my own regeneration I understood Romans 7:18-20 COMPLETELY different than I understand it today. My biggest problem with the "Hyper Grace" teachers is the huge room for misleading the seeker, and giving a false security to the false convert. That's why I see these teachings as dangerous personally.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I can tell you my story and what I went through with that…I was a sinner but the Lord was calling me. I felt conviction and wanted to be saved. There was a void and emptiness in my life that nothing could fill. I had plenty of friends, money, did what I wanted and had a life that people in the world would consider good, but none of that made me happy. I came to a place where I realized that only Jesus could feel the void and emptiness in my life.

The enemy knew that I was ready to repent and accept Jesus in my life so then he came at me with your not good enough or worthy, and why would Jesus save you in the condition that you are in? He kept telling me I had better clean myself up before you go before the Lord and ask for his help. Because the enemy knew I couldn’t do it on my own and he knew the only help for me was in the blood of the Lamb and his salvation.

But yet, I listened to the enemy and I tried to stop sinning on my own so that I would be good enough to go before God and ask him forgiveness. The problem with that was…I couldn’t stop sinning on my own, and I was never going to be able to make myself good enough or worthy of redemption. But thank God, he finally helped me to realize that I had to take it all to Jesus and ask him to cleanse me and make me whole.

And when I went before him and asked for his forgiveness, he didn’t turn me away because I was a sinner and unworthy. He washed me in his blood and forgave me of my sins and through his forgiveness, grace, and mercy I now walk with him in the newness of life. Old things have passed away and behold all things have become new. He helps me to carry my cross and strengthens me daily.

Amen, Thank you for your testimony.

God does work, As paul says,

Philippians 1:6 [Full Chapter]
being confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ;

If we have no confidence (faith) that God will continue that work until he returns to bring us home, Then what is our faiht really in? The only thing we have left is to trust in self. and our ability. I do not know about others, But I would rather trust God. I have a habit of failing when I try it myself.. When I rely on God though, and seek his spirit. I have seen great victory..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Both reasons are why I am so very thankful I was not raised in the church at all. I wasn't really swayed one way or the other by anyone, I just started liking the whole "Idea" of Jesus, but really looked at Christianity as a whole like more of a philosophy that if lived by would result in a descent life. I tend to agree more with how you look at it, but I can understand the other side of this argument as well. The biggest problem I have with the whole "Hyper Grace" view is how unbelievers and false converts may misunderstand a lot of what is taught.

I actually agree with very much of what is said, especially by the people here (not so much with the "teachers" that they endorse), but I really feel that's because I already have been given eyes to see and ears to hear. An example is before my own regeneration I understood Romans 7:18-20 COMPLETELY different than I understand it today. My biggest problem with the "Hyper Grace" teachers is the huge room for misleading the seeker, and giving a false security to the false convert. That's why I see these teachings as dangerous personally.

The thing we have to realize is, Satan is the master deceiver.. Most of Gods truth can be misunderstood by anyone, and thus they may be led astray. Just because some CAN misinterpret it, and be mislead by their view of what it means.. Does not mean it is somethign we should stay away from.

Grace is under the most attack, Because Grace saves people. And satan will do whatever he can to get people to reject it.. Even by telling people it is "to easy" or that it will "lead to licentiousness"

 

[oldethennew]

EG,

"Then I found grace, and what it really means.. I saw lives change from the inside out..
I still struggle because I was in it too long, But I am being healed. PRAISE GOD."
======================================================

thank you so much for sharing something so intimate, it truly moved hubby's and my hearts...
you have given your Saviour all of the credit for giving you the knowledge and strength and desire
to over-come 'the old-man's ways', and so, by Him continuing to daily re-new your mind,
your witness is manifesting itself.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

The heart problem

If you break everything down in your life, what is left.

I am a sinner saved by grace through the cross. That love is in the deepest part
of my soul, it is my foundation, the essence of my speech and actions.

Many people have lots of theories, but inside in their hearts is confusion. A sign hangs
on the door, beware who enters here, they will die. It shows itself in people saying
things like, emotions do not lead, it is faith. How dare you think you know how I feel,
that is not your place to psycho analyse me?

Faith and emotions are together, bound deeply in us. We never have been truly
intellectual or emotional, our emotions tell us where we are, our intellect builds a model
of where to go next and why we are here. Neither is objective or true or reliable, but
it is who we are. It takes time and patience to know the right way to walk with the Lord,
but some claim from the day you are born into the Kingdom, it is automatic. Now as the
Kingdom is about choice and love automatic does not exist.

“This is how my heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother or sister from your heart.”
Matt 18:35

I agree that it isn't all automatic. I didn't just automatically change my thoughts and ideas. It's been a process.

But I also think that we must not let our emotions lead. That's what Cain did.
Abel let his faith in God lead. Faith in God is what led him. Emotions is what led Cain.

Our hearts are sick. And our emotions will rule our sick hearts if we let them.
But God wants us to walk by trust in Him, not by our emotions.

 

[mpaper345]

I have a thought.

Those from a legalist background, trained in how to self condemn, to be sensitive to any
flaw or fault, perceived or otherwise, do you love and accept yourself?

I saw a film called "Good Will hunting" At the end of the film a point is made, "It is not your
fault." So much in our lives, is not our fault, it is where we are born, how we grow, who are
family are, how are schools and experiences developed.

Out of all this, the amount we can effect or even choose is very limited.
It seems in opening up to the Lord it is also to believe, yes I am worthy of being saved.
Now what I mean by "worthy", I mean you are someone God loves and can love.

So many here are seriously broken and beaten up people. The trauma and difficulties
you have had I have never come close to. So I am humbled by your testimonies.

What I am trying to convey is Jesus loves you, you, the real you, not hidden behind
Christ, or seen only through a filter, but you in all your states and confusion.
There is literally nothing new to the Lord, and nowhere the Lords love cannot go.

But part of the real walk with Christ is accepting He does love you. The cross says
it all. It is what has driven me most of my life, and trying to find words to let what
he put within, without. We have a great Lord, and a great gospel, and a great
eternity.

People's upbringing,and surroundings,can have an impact in their life,and their walk with God,which if they experienced bad situation quite frequently,might affect them when trying to live for Jesus.

But it can be overcome if a person submits to the Spirit,but some people do not do that entirely,but hold unto some things that they should let go.

The Bible says children honor your parents,but it also states fathers do not provoke your children to wrath,and today,and for a while,a lot of parents do not act with the decency that they did years ago,and by their bad actions might cause kids to not want to listen to them,which today it seems like a lot of parents,and kids,are short with each other,and kind of conflicting.

But that is one of the traits of the end time,children will not obey their parents.

The Bible says children honor your parents,for that is the first commandment with promise,because if children learn to humble themselves before their parents,authority,they are more likely to humble themselves before God,which at the end time with children not obeying their parents,it will only lead to rebelling against God in the future,for it will get worse as time goes on,until they cut God out of the picture,which high selfishness,and arrogance,is also an end time trait.

 

[PeterJens]

He helps me to carry my cross and strengthens me daily.

Amen. I have not really come across the idea of sinners repenting before faith in Christ.
Repentance has always been for me about Jesus's love and the Holy Spirit bringing conviction,
which is resolved through repentance, confession and faith.

And I 100% emphathise without transformation of ones heart, to walk with Jesus is just rules
with no power or conviction. When I was a teenager I like the song "I want to know what love
is."

At this point in life I want to know how to share the love I have and bring others into the love
of Christ so living water can flow out of them also.

 

[garee]

Although repentance does mean to change the mind .Its first things first.

I would ask. Change one’s mind in respect to what or who ? A change of heart ? The heart is deceitful and desperately wicked as in who could know it.???

It is simply a judgement hall that either accuses us or excuses us. All people in jail used their heart /conscience .We can see where it led them. Not by the Spirit of Christ through the hearing of Christ's faith.

Unless Christ working in us does the first work to turn us toward Him by which we can believe Him, no man could repent. He would have to work according to the hearing of His faith to first turn us so that then we can repent. He does all the work of salvation to include the work of repentance. To repent is a work of God if we have it in respect to our own selves we blaspheme the Holy name we are called by .It is simply not of ourselves lest any boast in false pride.

The perfect law of repentance is defined below . Again no turning according to the hearing of faith , no God, no repentance.

I have surely heard Ephraim bemoaning himself thus; Thou hast chastised me, and I was chastised, as a bullock unaccustomed to the yoke: turn thou me, and I shall be turned; for thou art the LORD my God.Surely after that I was turned, I repented; and after that I was instructed, I smote upon my thigh: I was ashamed, yea, even confounded, because I did bear the reproach of my youth.. Jer 31:18

Remember according to Galatians 3. It is God who turns us with the hearing of His faith by which we then have received the Holy Spirit. This is in respect to Christ’s voice and not our deceitful hearts.

This work he performed is our first love, knowing we love Him because he first loved us by giving us ears to hear Him who has no form . If we have begun in the Spirit he will turn us so that we then can repent . If we make the church as that we see walking by sight our first love by following the opinions of the elders or men leading as did the Nicolaitanes, we have fallen from grace and need to repent and do the first works(believe God )as he gives us his faith to make it all possible.

I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:And hast borne, and hast patience, and for my name's sake hast laboured, and hast not fainted. Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left “thy first love”.Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen (thy first love), and repent, and do the “first works” ( believe God through the hearing of faith ) ; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent. But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitanes, which I also hate. He that "hath an ear", let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God Rev 2:2

 

[eternally-gratefull]

EG,

"Then I found grace, and what it really means.. I saw lives change from the inside out..
I still struggle because I was in it too long, But I am being healed. PRAISE GOD."
======================================================

thank you so much for sharing something so intimate, it truly moved hubby's and my hearts...
you have given your Saviour all of the credit for giving you the knowledge and strength and desire
to over-come 'the old-man's ways', and so, by Him continuing to daily re-new your mind,
your witness is manifesting itself.

Thank you. Amen, It is a daily thing, As Paul said, He continued to run the race, even at the end of his life. I would be foolish to think I am even half of the man of God paul was..

I must rest in christ daily. And always be on th elook out for satan Who like the lion wants to destroy me.. I sometimes wonder what my life would have been if I found true grace 40 years ago instead of ten.. But I can't even focus on this, because that keeps my focus off God. and what he wants me to do now, today, this seek, this month..

 

[1ofthem]

Amen, Thank you for your testimony.

God does work, As paul says,

Philippians 1:6 [Full Chapter]
being confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ;

If we have no confidence (faith) that God will continue that work until he returns to bring us home, Then what is our faiht really in? The only thing we have left is to trust in self. and our ability. I do not know about others, But I would rather trust God. I have a habit of failing when I try it myself.. When I rely on God though, and seek his spirit. I have seen great victory..

Amen...There is no other way but through Jesus Christ...I can do nothing on my own...but through him I can do all things because he is my strength. I am weak but he is strong.

 

[PeterJens]

I agree that it isn't all automatic. I didn't just automatically change my thoughts and ideas. It's been a process.

But I also think that we must not let our emotions lead. That's what Cain did.
Abel let his faith in God lead. Faith in God is what led him. Emotions is what led Cain.

Our hearts are sick. And our emotions will rule our sick hearts if we let them.
But God wants us to walk by trust in Him, not by our emotions.

Amen. I am not sure you have realised this but everything is emotional. We are emotional
beings, and nothing in neutral. It is why only the pure in heart see God. Our hearts deceive
us and ideas we are sure are logical are biased because of our feelings and positions.

This is called observational bias. We all have it, but if we know this, it helps keep us humble.

What most are scared of is unresolved feelings or repressed emotion that is vast and waiting to
push out. But the root of this is denial we even feel this way, and not facing up to emotions are
just emotions. They are a great friend, but if handled wrong our worst enemy.

It is why as sinners we are so lost, yet as saints why we are so free.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Metanoia (from the Greek μετάνοια, metanoia, changing one's mind) in the context of rhetoric is a device used to retract a statement just made, and then state it in a better way.[1] As such, metanoia is similar to correction. Metanoia is used in recalling a statement in two ways—-to weaken the prior declaration or to strengthen it.

Metanoia is later personified as a figure accompanying kairos, sometimes as a hag and sometimes as a young lady. Ausonius' epigrams describe her thus: "I am a goddess to whom even Cicero himself did not give a name. I am the goddess who exacts punishment for what has and has not been done, so that people regret it. Hence my name is Metanoea." [2]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metanoia_(rhetoric)

The term derives from the Ancient Greek words μετά (metá) (meaning "beyond" or "after") and νόος (noeō) (meaning "perception" or "understanding" or "mind"), and takes on different meanings in different contexts.

The problem with taking a greek word to describe a hebrew word, is it does not necessarily translate.

But then if you want to blunt the meaning and ignore sources then you use everything you can.

I'm not following your train of thought here...
If it was originally written in Greek, shouldn't we use the Greek words definition?
In Hebrew, what is the definition given for the word that we translate into english as "repent" and "repentance?"
I would think that, since those apostles who understood Hebrew were writing IN Greek, that they would have chosen an equivalent word...