Repentance: A Boast in the Flesh

[Grace777x70]

Not saying this quote isn't Spurgeon, but the only place I could find it on the Internet was "Escape to Reality" website! I did, however find done good Reformed quotes by Spurgeon!

"Repentance grows as faith grows. Do not make any mistake about it; repentance is not a thing of days and weeks, a temporary penance to be got over as fast as possible! No; it is the grace of a lifetime, like faith itself. God's little children repent, and so do the young men and the fathers. Repentance is the inseparable companion of faith."

Sounds like we repent our whole lives! If you want to quote Spurgeon!

"Love for God is obedience; love for God is holiness. To love God and to love man is to be conformed to the image of Christ, and this is salvation."

So legalism or wisdom? Pretty wise, IMHO!

"It is not great faith, but true faith, that saves; and the salvation lies not in the faith, but in the Christ in whom faith trusts...It is not the measure of faith, but the sincerity of faith, which is the point to be considered."

I agree totally with this statement by Spurgeon. Salvation is not about emotions or the measure, it is totally about Christ.

But getting back to my question, I don't want links, quotes or posturing. So far the only thing you have said about repentance is that it means "changing your mind!" Great, now IN YOUR OWN WORDS, please tell me - what are you changing your mind from, and what are you changing your own mind to??

In case you do not understand the question, I'll give you my answer: from sin and evil and death, repenting of that, to: a relationship with Jesus Christ and obeying him and the Kingdom
of God.

No links, or quotes, please. Changing your mind. Changing it FROM what, TO what? Thanks in advance!

The links are my words but I will give it to you again now for the 4th time.

I believe as Spurgeon said:

"To repent is to "change your mind" about sin, Christ and all the great things of God".

As I said before a few times - I believe in "hyper-repenting" as I find out new beautiful truths about the love and grace of our Father and Lord towards us and yes that includes all types of sin.

If the fact that I don't "fast, mourn and weep and spend a lot of time in misery" like your version of repentance is - then we are allowed to agree to disagree. If you want to do that and feel that's the way you "do" repentance - then go for it. I won't slander you for having that belief.

Now, here is my testimony which I have posted numerous times in these forums and you want to continue to slander me and others that had the same thing happened to them concerning the awesome grace of Christ that is revealed to us after that - then that is your choice.

I will give you my testimony of what the Lord has done when He revealed to me my complete dependence on the gospel of the grace of Christ.

He has changed my mind ( As, only God can give true repentance ) on how I view a lot of things concerning Him and my life in Christ and of course that means all kinds of different sin - for "whatsoever is not of faith is in fact sin ".

If people feel the need to castigate what the Lord has done in my life - then so be it. I am not denying Christ in me and what He has done. I am not ashamed of the gospel - for in it is the power of God for real salvation.

I have a great passion for Christ!..here is what knowing Him because of the revelation of the gospel of the grace of Christ has done for me.

I was praying one morning and thinking about how the grace of Christ has affected me. I had the scripture come up in my spirit where the Pharisees were arguing about whether a man was born blind or not after Jesus healed him. Of course the Pharisees were trying to discredit the message of Jesus. The man said.." All I know is that I was born blind but now I see."

This is what the gospel of the grace of Christ has done in my life:

I realize that these beliefs in the grace of God....especially the acceptance grace, repentance from dead works and the total forgiveness that Jesus bought and paid for with His blood....that these can be offensive to our religious beliefs and what we have been taught in church. (they were initially to me as well )

This gospel of the wondrous grace of Christ has had a beautiful affect on me. I am more in love with Jesus and the Father more then ever....in love with studying His word....praying in the spirit constantly with a heart full of joy!

This gospel has given me a compassion for other people and to reach out in love to them. To give more than I ever have with a heart full of love.

To live a holier life in Him...which is not only living separate from the "biggie sins" but everything that He reveals about anything that is contrary to life and His nature that is in me....this has led me to be a witness of the life and love of our Lord in me.

If these are the horrible fruit of the grace of Christ in me....I want more!.....give me more grace please my Lord and God!


I am living a much fuller life now, more deeply in love with Jesus and the Father then ever before or ever dreamed was possible and I am just starting.

I am free from the horrible religion of self-effort, having the love of God pour out in me to help others now that I understand the grace that is in Christ then I did when I was doing the self-performance based gospel ( which is not the gospel )

I was blind but now I see. I see Jesus and His finished work for me!

It will always be in eternity "Worthy is the Lamb"..

It will never be.."Worthy is the Lamb......and me..because I did my own D.I.Y self-righteousness/holiness to help Jesus out"

It has always been about Jesus and Him alone and it will always remain that way for all eternity.

 

[UnderGrace]

Round Two........I better go put some coffee on it's gonna be a long night!

 

[Grace777x70]

Here is another one of my posts that outline repentance and how I see it.

The ultimate end goal for all Christians is to "repent" from our way of thinking to believe what God has said about Himself, ourselves in Him and how He views others in the world. This includes any form of sinning that is revealed to us. If He says we are new creations in Christ - We need to "repent" and believe what He says.

True biblical repentance is when God tells an unsaved ( and saved ) person to repent - change your mind in Greek about how to reach God and accept His way of salvation. The person must change his way of thinking ( repentance ) from any idea of saving himself through religion or good works, and trust Christ's death and resurrection only as payment for everything he has done wrong or will ever do in the future.

This also includes all the forms of sinning.

And Yes!....I do love to hyper repent of what I previously thought about our Father and our Lord as the Holy Spirit revels new facets of the love and grace they have towards us.

If this offends people - then you will just have to be offended. I am not ashamed of the beauty and wondrous love and grace shown to all of us in the gospel of the grace of God in Christ.

 

[UnderGrace]

Grace 777x70,

You are very gracious to answer and I sure good will come of it, because that is God's way, but no one should have to defend their status in Jesus and what He has done in their lives.

 

[Grace777x70]

Here is another one of my old posts.

Repentance : means change your mind ( change your way of thinking and rely on God only for things dealing with your life) and turn to God and believe in Jesus and what He has already done.

This changing of our mind to think God's thoughts and ways manifest itself in turning from our old habits and way to rely on Christ's life in us only.

There is a change after we come to Christ and His life in us transforms us. This is where we see the "fruit" of repentance. Fruit is not the "root" of repentance.

Fruit of an exchanged life comes after we have "repented " - changed our thinking to rely on Christ's work only for salvation. ( and this manifest itself in a holier lived life as the Holy Spirit transforms us and our minds get renewed to the truth that is in Christ alone)

We all need to repent every day and to align our minds the truth as we hear the beauty of our Lord proclaimed!

 

[Grace777x70]

Round Two........I better go put some coffee on it's gonna be a long night!

There is not going to be a round 2. If people cannot read what I have posted and see what my view on repentance is - and if they have a different view then what I do then they can slander me all they want. I will not answer them back but to bless them.

Paul says to stay away from strivings about words and they profit nothing but to generate strife, slander, evil suspicions and envy amongst us. 1 Tim. 6:4 ( 1 Cor. 3:3; Titus 3:9 )

I'm out of this thread as it has been derailed to one that is blasting people that have a different view of some words then others do. We can agree to disagree on some things as well without all the malice and slander.

Anyways...I trust you all will be blessed by the Lord and He will be faithful to us. I like to say "He will be caught in the act of being Himself". God bless you all! All is well! I read the end of the book..and we win in Christ!

One day we will see Him face to face and we will be forever learning new things about His love and grace towards us all. Eph. 2:7

 

[UnderGrace]

Take heart brother, many of us know the words you state are according to the Gospel.

It is not about church history, church dogma and historical doctrine, for the people were led into utter darkness by the works of men in the church of Rome.

Ultimately it is the Holy Spirit reveals and confirms these truths that are in scripture and we do not have to defend what Jesus has accomplished in us and the understanding He has imparted to those who are willing to hear and understand.

[SUP]7 [/SUP]These have come so that the proven genuineness of your faith—of greater worth than gold, which perishes even though refined by fire—may result in praise, glory and honor when Jesus Christ is revealed.
1 Peter 1:7

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

In fact, what has been hijacked are the Biblical definitions of repentance, grace, sin, forgiveness, etc.

A new and false gospel is being preached on CC. I had never heard of it before you, Grace777 started extolling it. I even read some links someone posted, and still didn't undertand what it was about. None so blind as those who will not see.

Since I am not a legalist, nor antinomian, I fell hook, line and sinker for this false gospel. I thought it was supporting the doctrine of eternal security, which I am a firm believer in. Since God showed me in my spirit by HIS spirit, and confirmed in the world of God.

In fact, all the posts by grace+ people just confirmed what I thought I knew. But your constant posted links to the "Escape to Reality" website, set alarm bells off. He was pulling things radically out of context. Using only one verse, or part of a verse to support his viewpoints. But I guess the alarm was not sounded loud enough! I kept on thinking we were still debating "law versus grace" preciously because of such posts as the one I have partially quoted above.

So I kept reading all the posts by you, and supporting you. Until one day - ZAP! I finally realized what you were saying! Not what PeterJens or HeRose or P_Rebein were saying! What you were saying! Your words judge you! No anti hypergrace websites for me. My bad! Yesterday was the first day I actually looked a websites that were saying hypergrace is a heresy and Joseph Prince its false prophet.

Now I am trying my best not to be critical or nasty here. And I certainly am not judging the lives of anyone in this forum. (Sometimes I do get strong in the Family Forum, because people are reaping the consequences of their sin and only God can help the messes they are in!)

So the Holy Spirit, particularly through your posts, Grace777 showed me that you were not preaching a Biblical or historical faith. In fact, it was totally "another gospel." I certainly don't say every person who believes in hypergrace is not saved. And I have seen over and over people confessing their sin. I guess that is some kind of hangover of their religious teachings?

BUT - this is a revelation gone mad. It denies the whole purpose of Christ coming. It's evangelists (not just you, Grace777) are actually lying to this forum. For instance, saying that 1 John 1:9 was "only" for Gnostics. When in fact, there was NO Gnosticism when the epistles of 1, 2 & 3 John were written. It didn't come out until the 2nd century. That is history, which again, you are denying.

To say nothing of there being no scripture support, internal or external for this ridiculous view that 1 John 1:9 doesn't really apply to us, when it was written to believers. That we really don't have to confess our sins, because God forgave the on the cross. The entire epistle of John was written to believers. So, it is a patent lie that 1 John 1:9 was written to Gnostics. And it will be reported as a lie, in the future. That alone tells me hypergrace is wrong, when it's evangelists have to literally lie to make the Bible conform with their "religious" beliefs.

No, this is not about "religious traditions" at all. It is about people who deny the reality of the gospel and replace it with another.

My sincerest wish, is that you would please tell me, with regards to repentance, what are you changing your mind from, and to?

So Biblical Christianity - sin and a fallen life -> repentance (God giving me the power to confess my sins and change my life) -> to living life in Christ, a new creature in him. Positionally perfect, but not sinless and still aware of sin, and its consequences.


One more time!
sin (the broad road that leads to destruction ---> repentance (turning from sin - confession of sins) ---> towards God. Serving him the rest of my life!

What is your definition of repentance? What are you changing YOUR from, and to what?

I missed where anyone said 1 John 1:9 doesn't apply to us but to gnostics. If I'd heard it, I would definitely not agree.
Since I personally agree that repenting is changing my mind to align with God, I can give a personal example.
I used to think that it was okay to defend myself when I was treated badly or when someone was selfishly using me or was treating me unkindly. It was how I was raised, to stand up for myself and not to let anyone "walk all over me." And after I met God, this didn't change. I thought everyone has a right to defend themselves when being treated wrongly in these ways. And I carried resentments toward those who treated me unfairly.

Then God showed me that it was NOT okay to defend myself and that I was to give this up because it was pride of life and was nothing like acting as Jesus acted. I repented of my way of thinking about it and agreed with what God says, not what the world tells me are "my rights." I turned from my self-regard and agreed with Him.

Of course, just knowing Gods' mind on it didn't make me able to stop defending myself against the behavior of others toward me and it didn't make these annoyances and resentments stop. That's a longer story. But this is an example of how the world tells me one thing and God tells me another and how I turn from what the world says to what HE says.

 

[Splagna]

Please indicate which of Spurgeon's sermons this quote came from.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

I missed where anyone said 1 John 1:9 doesn't apply to us but to gnostics. If I'd heard it, I would definitely not agree.

Hello Stunnedbygrace
I don't know If what Angela said Is true or not,but If Gnostics were not In the crowd when John's messege to the church In Asia was given then I would also wonder about 1st John 1:9

But the reason we were saying gnostics were being talked to was because although John was talking to believers,there were gnostics In the crowd.

IE
A Preacher Is talking to the congregation and there are people there that went to church that day and they here the preacher say"you need to get saved"

The preacher Is talking to the congregation,but he may at some point be talking to those that are not saved yet that are there.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

I think I still don't understand why you would think the verse is only for gnostics...

 

[UnderGrace]

When in fact, there was NO Gnosticism when the epistles of 1, 2 & 3 John were written. It didn't come out until the 2nd century. That is history, which again, you are denying.

Gnosticism had its roots in the works of Plato well before the first century Christians, in his writing concerning The Way of Truth he speaks frequently about "knowledge" gnosis.

Know thyself was the essence of his writings. His ideas influenced many philosophers through the years changing and evolving along the way. During the time of Jesus there existed various schools of thought, although many held differing opinions on the essence of knowledge and how that related to truth.

So that there were gnostics in the crowd is very likely, although their thinking may not have been as formalized as it would become, it already had a long history.

In my opinion gnosis was first presented by the serpent to Eve in the Garden of Eden.

 

[BenFTW]

It seems some are stuck in the past and they, as like now, would've opposed Martin Luther in bringing the revelation of justification by faith. It was different from the traditional understanding but there in scripture all along. Progressive revelation of the truth. Today with God's grace, and its revelation, that God is bringing to light to the body of Christ, people are opposing it for the same reason. Tradition. Yet, it is found all throughout scripture. "Continue to grow in the grace and knowledge of Jesus Christ."

VVe have people steadfast in using history to keep people in the past of religious tradition, instead of reevaluating their beliefs in respect to the revelation of God's grace. They don't line up (their tradition and the revelation of God's grace), and so they are fighting it to stay stagnant in a system that direly needs God's grace to set people free of sin's dominion and condemnation in the heart. Instead of realizing whats been there all along, they think because history shows a particular doctrine has been widely held for long it gives it credibility. Yet, what can they say of justification by faith prior to Martin Luther?

If the body of Christ was wrong in the past, who is to say it didn't happen again? Maybe God chose such a time as this, to bring the revelation of His grace to His children so that they could walk in intimacy with Him, confidently. To be assured in their salvation. To exalt Jesus Christ, fully to what He has done on our behalf. Just maybe revelation is progressive, but has been there all along. It is just that our eyes are being opened now, graciously.

 

[BenFTW]

-snip-

So the Holy Spirit, particularly through your posts, Grace777 showed me that you were not preaching a Biblical or historical faith. In fact, it was totally "another gospel." I certainly don't say every person who believes in hypergrace is not saved. And I have seen over and over people confessing their sin. I guess that is some kind of hangover of their religious teachings?

-snip-

The Holy Spirit didn't reveal that to you, that was personal bias and convictions of your own. It opposes your own belief system on repentance and the very fabric of your reality and relationship with God. So naturally, you showed repulsion to it. God's grace to those with some traditional backgrounds on repentance are offended. They think its downright blasphemous.

Yet, it isn't. It is Christ exalting. However, with the traditional understanding of sin confession and repentance one must trample underfoot the Son of God. Especially if one maintains that sin confession maintains one's salvation. For what reason did Christ die? Are we not justified? Then what forgiveness is sought and to what end? Our sins have experienced remission by the blood of Christ. VVhy do we seek another avenue for forgiveness other than Jesus' sacrifice? It doesn't make sense.

I can assure you, the Lord didn't reveal that to you (that he preaches a false gospel). Grace777x70 preaches the truth on God's grace and its sufficiency. He may, indeed, preach another gospel than the one you believe as far as repentance goes and how one has victory over sin, but you believe in the same Jesus Christ. You both believe in Jesus' death and resurrection and that we are saved by grace through faith. The process of sanctification, however, may be where there is a difference in methodology. Know this though, sanctification isn't what saves us. VVe are justified by faith.

 

[PeterJens]

Now to this foolishness that the Holy Spirit told you the gospel of the grace of Christ and relying on His work is "another gospel" - is just plain nonsense just because you don't agree with the meaning of a word.

You are siding with a person that doesn't even believe we are born-again until we get a new body in the future sometime with his belief that grace -believers are "gnostic" and it is complete foolishness.

Grace7 - I assume you are talking about me and what I believe. This probably summarises your
understanding of people who disagree with.

I believe people are born again when they come to faith. I do not believe they get a "new heart"
or a "new spirit" like a thing that magically appears. I believe they are born in to the Kingdom and
come alive, everything starts to make sense, confusion disappears, focus and direction are clear.

And the version of Hyper Grace you preach is gnostic. We even had a long discussion on the idea
of being mystical in ones spirituality, as opposed to spiritual with a real relationship with Christ.

But does this matter? Probably not if you do not walk in righteousness and purity.
I was told day after day how people walked in sin, and the law was an impossible goal.

but the real sin behind that is the failure to recognize my Father will take care of me.

This is hyper legalism. It appears to be saying we are not under condemnation while
inventing sins which forever make you unacceptable.

This becomes a game of just excusing failure. When we are called "Gods holy people",
let us simply believe this. When John says some people are "holy", then this is a
real state. The cynism about God, His word, and His people is disbelief.

Putting into practise the sermon on the mount is following Christ.

But thanks be to God! He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
1 Cor 15:57


For everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith.
1 John 5:4

God bless you all, and may we walk ever closer to Our Lord and Father through His
Son Jesus Christ.

 

[PeterJens]

The Holy Spirit didn't reveal that to you, that was personal bias and convictions of your own. It opposes your own belief system on repentance and the very fabric of your reality and relationship with God. So naturally, you showed repulsion to it. God's grace to those with some traditional backgrounds on repentance are offended. They think its downright blasphemous.

Yet, it isn't. It is Christ exalting. However, with the traditional understanding of sin confession and repentance one must trample underfoot the Son of God. Especially if one maintains that sin confession maintains one's salvation. For what reason did Christ die? Are we not justified? Then what forgiveness is sought and to what end? Our sins have experienced remission by the blood of Christ. VVhy do we seek another avenue for forgiveness other than Jesus' sacrifice? It doesn't make sense.

I can assure you, the Lord didn't reveal that to you (that he preaches a false gospel). Grace777x70 preaches the truth on God's grace and its sufficiency. He may, indeed, preach another gospel than the one you believe as far as repentance goes and how one has victory over sin, but you believe in the same Jesus Christ. You both believe in Jesus' death and resurrection and that we are saved by grace through faith. The process of sanctification, however, may be where there is a difference in methodology. Know this though, sanctification isn't what saves us. VVe are justified by faith.

"the traditional understanding of sin confession and repentance one must trample underfoot the Son of God."

This is a declaration of condemnation of every believer who follows Christ in the biblical way.

The way you construct your argument is a real declaration of another faith. Now to anyone who
follows Jesus, and takes the sermon on the mount to heart, this is another faith.

"The Holy Spirit didn't reveal that to you"
"They think its downright blasphemous."
"Yet, it isn't."
"the Lord didn't reveal that to you"

You are confirming the observations I and others have made over the last 6 months.
We can agree to differ. Different faiths always do.

What is interesting is will this faith dominate, or a split occur. The obvious power in peoples
minds to this approach to christianity is very appealing, be in the world, and of the world,
condemned, and still be saved.

The condemnation of righteous, pure believers walking faithfully with Christ is disturbing and
suggests this is not of God at all.

 

[gb9]

no one is condemning anyone's righteous or purity. but, by the Biblical definition of sin, no one, a believer or not, is pure and righteous 100% of the time. so we all need forgiveness after coming to Christ. while is should be everyone's goal everyday to not sin, we will fall short of that goal.

I ask you peter, if you have not, please start using the Biblical definition of sin. it will make you see that Jesus, and grace, are the only things you can put your trust in.

 

[PeterJens]

"But if a righteous person turns from their righteousness and commits sin and does the same detestable things the wicked person does, will they live?"
Ezek 18:21

Sin is blatant and obvious. Sin has never been the issue, it is a sign of a lack of love.
Walk in love, and you will fulfill the law, and no longer be under condemnation.

Sin defined by hyper-legalists want to trap you into infinite condemnation.

That is the work of the enemy to condemn people over everything and who they are.

 

[PeterJens]

If anyone turns a deaf ear to my instruction, even their prayers are detestable.
Proverbs 28:9

 

[PeterJens]

Again, when a righteous person turns from their righteousness and does evil, and I put a stumbling block before them, they will die.
Ezek 3:20