Two Camps... rules & grace

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
J

jcha

Guest
#21
When someone loves you, They send you a love letter. In that letter is instructions.

Saying it is a love letter is so much better than sayin gan instruction manual.. An instruction manual says do this or else (legalism) a love letter says here is my word to you.
You say instruction manual says do this or else.....

God says do this and you will be blessed and don't do this you are cursed.

[FONT=&quot]Hear, ye children, the instruction of a father, and attend to know understanding.
For I give you good doctrine, forsake ye not my law.
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Proverbs 4:1-2 (KJV)

[/FONT]
"Good doctrine" same thing Paul said 2 Timothy 3:16

16All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#22
You say instruction manual says do this or else.....

God says do this and you will be blessed and don't do this you are cursed.
Yes, this is what God says,

Sadly, That is not what many in here are saying.. They say it is do this or else.. Thats what I am talking against (legalism)

Hear, ye children, the instruction of a father, and attend to know understanding.
For I give you good doctrine, forsake ye not my law.
Proverbs 4:1-2 (KJV)

"Good doctrine" same thing Paul said 2 Timothy 3:16

16All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Again,

All I am saying it is better to say it is Gods love letter. So it does not come across as being legalistic. Sadly the church has a bad name, Thats why many people want nothing to do with it..
 
Dec 1, 2014
9,701
252
0
#23
One camp had the instruction book from God, but didn't recognize the Messiah.
The other camp recognized the Messiah, but wanted nothing to do with the instruction book.
but then... what would the united camp look like?
We have united camps - there filled with self righteous, pharisaic hypocrites who thank Jesus for His sacrifice but rely on their own ill conceived thoughts of perfection and merely set themselves up for ultimate failure. And great is their fall.
 
Dec 1, 2014
9,701
252
0
#24
This post didn't go exactly where I though it was going. All I know is that around the age of fourteen I joined a Church of God of Prophecy. It was a great church. Full of love and sincerely seeking the truth of God. The problem was there efforts to be holy led them to tremendous legalism. They had a list of do's and don'ts that was quite extensive.
It took me a long time after leaving them to get out of legalism in my own mind and to accept God's grace as it was meant to be.
Religion, legalism, and tradition has done untold damage to God's church and all should be avoided as much as possible.

GraceDefined
The OP demonstrates your words time and again.
 
J

jcha

Guest
#25
Deuteronomy 28 And it shall come to pass, if thou shalt hearken diligently unto the voice of the Lord thy God, to observe and to do all his commandments which I command thee this day, that the Lord thy God will set thee on high above all nations of the earth:
2 And all these blessings shall come on thee, and overtake thee, if thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the Lord thy God. ........

Jesus said

Matthew 23:2-4King James Version (KJV)
2 Saying The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:
3 All therefore whatsoever they bid do observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.
4 For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.

Acts 15:
21For Moses has been proclaimed in every city fromancient times and is read in the synagogues on everySabbath.”


 
Dec 1, 2014
9,701
252
0
#26
Not only christians will be ushered into heaven, but those who love others and do the will of Jesus Father in heaven (Spirit or Truth and Righteousness)
That just opened up a can of worms.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#27
Deuteronomy 28 And it shall come to pass, if thou shalt hearken diligently unto the voice of the Lord thy God, to observe and to do all his commandments which I command thee this day, that the Lord thy God will set thee on high above all nations of the earth:
2 And all these blessings shall come on thee, and overtake thee, if thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the Lord thy God. ........

Jesus said

Matthew 23:2-4King James Version (KJV)
2 Saying The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:
3 All therefore whatsoever they bid do observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.
4 For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.

Acts 15:
21For Moses has been proclaimed in every city fromancient times and is read in the synagogues on everySabbath.”


Duet 27: [SUP]26 [/SUP]‘Cursed is the one who does not confirm all the words of this law by observing them.’

Gal 3: [SUP]10 [/SUP]For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.”

So tell us, How well are you at keeping this standard as REQUIRED by God? (ps I can highlights words too :p )
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
8,025
126
63
#30
2 Timothy 3:15-17King James Version (KJV)

15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
16All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

Paul doesn't indicate "legalism" in the scriptures and the only scriptures he had at that time is what we Christians call the Old Testament, but Paul calls them scriptures.
rom 1.18-3.20 says it all. All have sinned without exception and under the law can only be condemned,

So God justifies through the blood and righteousness of Christ alone (Rom 3.21-5.21) We are dead to the law though the body of Christ, (7)
 
Dec 1, 2014
9,701
252
0
#31
rom 1.18-3.20 says it all. All have sinned without exception and under the law can only be condemned,

So God justifies through the blood and righteousness of Christ alone (Rom 3.21-5.21) We are dead to the law though the body of Christ, (7)
The above post should end this thread, but it won't.
 
Feb 28, 2016
11,311
2,972
113
#32
Two Camps... rules & grace
One camp had the instruction book from God, but didn't recognize the Messiah.
The other camp recognized the Messiah, but wanted nothing to do with the instruction book.
but then... what would the united camp look like?

========================================================

this is how Disciple;mike is coming across to us:

the (2) camps are the Jewish Camp and the Christian Camp -

the Jewish Camp loves and adores the Law and Commandments of God, as David did,
a 'man after God's own Heart'...but, they deny Christ, as Messiah.

the Christian-camp adores Messiah, The Christ, but it skeptical concerning
the Laws, Judgments, and Statues of God...

THE PROBLEM is that the word, LAW, in the Greek has one basic meaning - but in
Hebraic thought it can refer to many 'different aspects', - there is the Law of God,
the Law of Christ, the Law of 'sin and death', the Law of FAITH and several others,
that aren't coming to me right off of the top of my head!!

PHIL. 3:6.
Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.

we have to analyze the context, is Paul blameless, according to the Law of God??
NO, he admits that he was a chief sinner and still struggles with the 'flesh and the spirit' -
BUT,
according to the oral Law, which according the Pharisees -superceded the 'written Law -
so,
according to the oral Law, He was 'blameless'...

another example is,
ROMANS 7:23. - But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind,
and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
this is the Law of sin , which is contrasted in Romans 7, to God's Law, which is Holy-Just- & Good.

the point is, that we have been 'brain-washed' through 'traditional 'Christianity, with all of its
(anti-Semitic bias) that all of the Law is 'bad' that it is 'legalisim', which in reality boils-down to
the 'legalistic requirements of, (man's-traditions') which is and always has been,
'antagonistic' to God's Law...

but it is written: Isa. 2:3. -Clearly a Kingdom prophecy -
And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the
to the house of the God of Jacob; and He will teach us of His ways, and we will walk in His paths:
for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the Word of the LORD from Jerusalem.

LAW is translated Torah, which means instruction or direction, it is not,
(stop in the name of the law or you will get a 'traffic-ticket", unfortunately, this is the mind-set
of 'churchianiaty'




 

Vdp

Banned
Nov 18, 2015
479
8
0
#33
Then there is the third camp.

Those who do have the Scriptures and have accepted Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior and Follow Him.

What is interesting in the first and second camp we have a lot of people in both, but in the third camp there are very few people and even fewer who find it.

Matthew 7:14
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.

Just remember not everyone who says Lord,Lord will enter the Kingdom of heaven.

Matthew 7:21-23

[SUP]21 [/SUP]“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. [SUP]22 [/SUP]Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ [SUP]23 [/SUP]And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’
 
J

jcha

Guest
#34
Duet 27: [SUP]26 [/SUP]‘Cursed is the one who does not confirm all the words of this law by observing them.’

Gal 3: [SUP]10 [/SUP]For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.”

So tell us, How well are you at keeping this standard as REQUIRED by God? (ps I can highlights words too :p )
Deuteronomy 21:22"If a man has committed a sin worthy of death and he is put to death, and you hang him on a tree, 23his corpse shall not hang all night on the tree, but you shall surely bury him on the same day (for he who is hangedis accursed of God), so that you do not defile your landwhich the LORD your God gives you as an inheritance.

Galatians 3:
12The Law, however, is not based on faith; on the contrary, “The one who does these things will live by them.13Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law by becoming a curse for us. For it is written: “Cursed iseveryone who is hung on a tree.” — 14He redeemed us so that the blessing promised to Abraham would come to the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit...

And with the promise of the Spirit follows a desire to obey.

And with the promise of the Spirit the law (as you say God's love letters (dubar)) are written on our hearts and we will desire to live righteously.

Ephesians 6:5Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear and sincerity of heart, just as you would show to Christ. 6And do this not only to please them while they are watching, but as servants of Christ, doing the will of God from your heart. 7Serve with good will, as to the Lord and not to men,…



John 7:
16“My teaching is not My own,” Jesus replied. “It comes from Him who sent Me. 17If anyone desires to do His will, he will know whether My teaching is from God or whether I speak on My own. 18He who speaks on his own authority seeks his own glory, but He who seeks the glory of the One who sent Him is a man of truth; in Him there is no falsehood.…



 
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,431
0
#35
Us Christians are dead to the Law. We live by Christ in us now.

Hebrews 8:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] When He said, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear.

After 70 AD when the temple was torn down by the Romans. ..that was the end of the temple sacrifices for the Jewish people.

Jesus Himself is all that we need now. We have the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus, the law of love, the law of faith, the law of liberty in Christ and the law of Christ - we have Christ by the Holy Spirit to lead us now in this newness of the spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.

These are the laws that the Holy Spirit puts in our hearts. Jesus Himself and His life.

Do not go back to the Law and commit spiritual adultery on the Lord Jesus Christ. Romans 7:1-6 - we have died to the Law SO THAT we may be joined to another - the Lord Jesus Christ.


 
Jul 1, 2016
2,639
22
0
#36
Oddly enough, when the Messiah was preaching, He would tell people to repent. repent.