Let's Take a Deeper Look at this Hyper Stuff

[TonyJay]

Sad OP!
However it must be said that it may not be the message per se that it as fault.
Orthodox Christianity, howsoever defined, is misunderstood, often deliberately.

I don't really care about the labels being used but that behaviour indicates a complete misunderstanding or abandonment of what it means to be a Christian under grace.
Grace does not give a license to behave badly, it gives us a license to behave better!

 

[wattie]

I wonder if the misconception with hyper grace.. is that the Holy Spirit won't discipline a person He has saved and sealed.

A saved person is secure in Christ.. a place in heaven is set for them. They are eternally secure. That does not mean though, that there is no consequence for sin.

The Holy Spirit will rebuke, admonish, empower, teach, strengthen a believer.. empowering them to flee sin.

It is possible for someone who has been eternally saved to then go off and do all kinds of bad stuff.. that is possible.. because of free will..

But in the process of doing this.. they are going to be disciplined and rebuked by the Holy Spirit indwelling them!

There is still consequence for sin.

Someone could lose church membership.. being disciplined like in Matthew 18. They would lose a lot of fellowship, and would not be in the presence of the Holy Spirit with that church family.

The Holy Spirit may even remove the person from the planet .. 'call them home' if they are wayward. I don't know the line that someone would cross for this to happen.. but it has happened in the bible.

So.. I still don't know fully what hyper grace is.. but there is consequence for sin for someone who is eternally secure and can't lose salvation.

 

[God4me]

Some thoughts on the hyper grace threads and my conclusions



I suggest that whatever took a hold of this group of believers, was not the grace of God.


and here are a couple of more:




I may be more concerned now then I was before I started looking into these claims about so called hyper grace.

What I am finding out, is that people who have basically turned from God to live a lifestyle of sin and decadence are being labelled as hyper grace.

I don't 'follow' Joseph Prince or anyone really. I do watch certain speakers or teachers and have a very solid background in scripture and have been involved in ministry myself and it is not perfection or all about joy and love behind the scenes. The only thing I can say about that, is while I have never been involved in a 'stink' in leadership, I've witnessed enough of it, as well as the rumors, jealousy and backstabbing that sometimes goes on.

People condoling sin and getting drunk, committing adultery and cursing others is hardly the grace of God. So why are people calling it hyper grace?

Personally, I don't think ANYONE needs or can or should, point fingers at others and blame grace for sin.

Calling the sinful acts of people who have turned their backs on the gospel and have accepted a lie, HYPER GRACE is utter nonsense.

Let's call it what it is. IT IS SIN.

If a person depends on others for their relationship with God, sooner or later they are going to crash and burn. It's a law of God. God says 'cursed are those who trust in flesh and make it their strength.

Thus says the LORD, "Cursed is the man who trusts in mankind And makes flesh his strength, And whose heart turns away from the LORD. Jeremiah 17:5

If your relationship with God is THROUGH someone else, YOU DON'T HAVE A RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD! so stop saying that you do! Throughout scripture, God begs...yes, literally begs...people to put their trust IN HIM.

Heresy hunters are a fact of life now and the web has given rise to more self proclaimed experts and 'Bible teachers' and self named prophets than the world has ever seen or God has ever called.

I have seen way too much on these forums concerning hyper grace and have been labelled hyper grace myself by people who are shooting in the dark at anything that they think moves.

I sense both fear and anger in many as the church is, in my humble opinion, convulsing and struggling to keep up with all the 'stuff' that is out there in a vain attempt to keep up with the masses and serve the people what they want and when they want it.

But you know, all God says about that is this:

For My people have committed two evils: They have forsaken Me, The fountain of living waters, To hew for themselves cisterns, Broken cisterns That can hold no water. Jeremiah 2:13


If you are depending on a teacher, a pastor or a best friend to feed your relationship with Jesus, you have a broken cistern on your hands. I'm not talking about counselling, or prayer or any other need. I am talking about your PERSONAL relationship with God wherein you call Him Father and He calls you His child.

If you reject the Holy Spirit, you are rejecting the living waters.

You, should be a person who seeks God with all of your heart...God says that is when you will find Him..when you put your heart into it and not just lip service.

Call sin what it is and stop calling grace hyper.

Again, acting like the world is not hyper grace...it is sin and should be recognized as such.


I will also tell anyone reading this, that I don't really care about personal attacks or having my 'motive' for making this thread questioned or being called a hypocrite or anything else.

Christians have already done about all they can do to make me turn from God, so I get where some of you are coming from.

However, God is merciful; He looks on the heart. That, is the terrain of God so if you judge me, that is doubt my sincerity here, I'll leave it up to God as to how and when He has your heart revealed to you.

Have respect for others and consider your words if you want to respond.

Discuss the topic and not the people in the thread.

Thanks

Why do people defend the erroneous hyper grace .
One hyper grace man had a wife and a girl friend, and he said, "But it's all right because grace covers all my sins".
Another hyper was a homosexual, living with another gay man, and he said, "All my sins have been forgiven, so it's ok".
Joseph Prince said, "When I sin, I'm blessed, because God isn't counting my sins against me".
Then he misquoted the Bible by saying, "All my sins, Past present and future, have been forgiven".

He also said, The only qualification we need to go up in the rapture, Is to be alive on the earth at the time, Then he said,
"We don't have to be holy or faithful".

I had a lady friend who was a follower of Joseph Prince, [He is her favourite minister], And she said to me,
"If you drop this holiness thing, I'll still be your friend".
As soon as I heard that, I ended my friendship with her.

So Why do people defend the hyper Bible snipers. DIS- grace teachers

 

[God4me]

These ones are walking after the flesh but one of two things will happened to them

1) they will come out of this fleshly living either by the disciplining ( child-training ) of the Lord or sometimes their sinning created a death situation here on this earth.

2) Look at the guy in 1 Cor chapter 5 that had his father's wife. Paul took exception to that one situation ( I think it is because they were boasting in it - Paul said - maybe boasting they could sin all they want because of grace? )

..at any rate - Paul said "I have decided with the power of the Lord Jesus to deliver such a one over to satan for the destruction of the flesh so that his spirit would be saved in the day of the Lord."..Your boasting is not good"

These seem to be very rare cases and only was done by some mature Christian that has authority in that given place. What it means to "hand over " someone to satan...I don't know that part.

That really does sum up the hyper grace teachers.
So they need to watch out for God's chastisement, or being given over to the devil.

 

[LaurenTM]

Why do people defend the erroneous hyper grace .
One hyper grace man had a wife and a girl friend, and he said, "But it's all right because grace covers all my sins".
Another hyper was a homosexual, living with another gay man, and he said, "All my sins have been forgiven, so it's ok".
Joseph Prince said, "When I sin, I'm blessed, because God isn't counting my sins against me".
Then he misquoted the Bible by saying, "All my sins, Past present and future, have been forgiven".

He also said, The only qualification we need to go up in the rapture, Is to be alive on the earth at the time, Then he said,
"We don't have to be holy or faithful".

I had a lady friend who was a follower of Joseph Prince, [He is her favourite minister], And she said to me,
"If you drop this holiness thing, I'll still be your friend".
As soon as I heard that, I ended my friendship with her.

So Why do people defend the hyper Bible snipers. DIS- grace teachers

why do you go out of your way to detract from the op and try to derail?

 

[LaurenTM]

Ok so i have returned to CC and i see all this stuff about "hyper grace". Since i study Gods Word by Gods Word i am a bit confused on this thing. Now yes i do read other writings to help me understand a bit but none of these other "teachers" mention anything about this. Let me see if my understanding on this is correct.

Because of Gods Grace and because of our sins being forgiven and paid for we can commit sin without reprocussion because of Gods Grace.

Is that the basic idea behind this "hyper grace" "movement"? Am i understanding this correctly? If i am, doesnt Paul tell us that the grace of God is not a reason to sin but a reason not to sin?

you and me both

someone started this thing...quite a few months ago...and they have never let up and now people who do not even have a clue are calling others hyper grace and saying they allow for sin etc

we agree there is only God's grace and it is NO license to sin

 

[LaurenTM]

Sad OP!
However it must be said that it may not be the message per se that it as fault.
Orthodox Christianity, howsoever defined, is misunderstood, often deliberately.

I don't really care about the labels being used but that behaviour indicates a complete misunderstanding or abandonment of what it means to be a Christian under grace.
Grace does not give a license to behave badly, it gives us a license to behave better!

it's very sad but needs to be said

of course those doing the name calling here will continue to do so because it does not seem to matter what is said, they continue to harass and call others hyper grace

if you read my posts, you know what I think of the labels

but in case you missed it:

all these labels and a desire to control BY labeling...I wonder, does God stamp us with some identifier because He cannot take the time to really know us? does He shove us in a drawer like wounded butterflies who have no way of escape and have lost all possibility of becoming who and how much they could be?

God encourages the use of our brain...renew your mind He says...in His word

He says I call you by name...I know how many hairs are on your head and I see the sparrow fall...

This is the God we purport to know. He is not a collector of numbers and He does not desire to make us all the same

there is a constant dripping on this forum, a constant false accusation, that some are saying we endorse sinning. that has been addressed and denied mulitple of mulitple times and yet the accusations continue; hence my op

 

[LaurenTM]

I wonder if the misconception with hyper grace.. is that the Holy Spirit won't discipline a person He has saved and sealed.

A saved person is secure in Christ.. a place in heaven is set for them. They are eternally secure. That does not mean though, that there is no consequence for sin.

The Holy Spirit will rebuke, admonish, empower, teach, strengthen a believer.. empowering them to flee sin.

It is possible for someone who has been eternally saved to then go off and do all kinds of bad stuff.. that is possible.. because of free will..

But in the process of doing this.. they are going to be disciplined and rebuked by the Holy Spirit indwelling them!

There is still consequence for sin.

Someone could lose church membership.. being disciplined like in Matthew 18. They would lose a lot of fellowship, and would not be in the presence of the Holy Spirit with that church family.

The Holy Spirit may even remove the person from the planet .. 'call them home' if they are wayward. I don't know the line that someone would cross for this to happen.. but it has happened in the bible.

So.. I still don't know fully what hyper grace is.. but there is consequence for sin for someone who is eternally secure and can't lose salvation.

I find that the misnomer hyper in front of grace is a slick deception

Sin is sin...it is not hyper grace

there are deadly consequences for sin and believers do not continue in sin. only the blood of Christ washes away sin.

no amount of good behavior atones for our sin and yet it seems some say that and then conclude that if we say only God's grace atones (through Christ) then we are saying you can do whatever you want

it is a blatant lie and has been refuted over and over

my conclusion on the matter is that grace is not hyper sin

sin is sin

grace is grace

and yes, I've repeated it.

thanks for responding

 

[FreeNChrist]

Ok so i have returned to CC and i see all this stuff about "hyper grace". Since i study Gods Word by Gods Word i am a bit confused on this thing. Now yes i do read other writings to help me understand a bit but none of these other "teachers" mention anything about this. Let me see if my understanding on this is correct.

Because of Gods Grace and because of our sins being forgiven and paid for we can commit sin without reprocussion because of Gods Grace.

Is that the basic idea behind this "hyper grace" "movement"? Am i understanding this correctly? If i am, doesnt Paul tell us that the grace of God is not a reason to sin but a reason not to sin?

Yes. That would be what those who have labeled the message of grace as "hyper grace" believe about it. And as Paul says their condemnation is just.

"And why not do evil that good may come?—as some people slanderously charge us with saying. Their condemnation is just." Romans 3:8

 

[FreeNChrist]

Why do people defend the erroneous hyper grace .
One hyper grace man had a wife and a girl friend, and he said, "But it's all right because grace covers all my sins".
Another hyper was a homosexual, living with another gay man, and he said, "All my sins have been forgiven, so it's ok".
Joseph Prince said, "When I sin, I'm blessed, because God isn't counting my sins against me".
Then he misquoted the Bible by saying, "All my sins, Past present and future, have been forgiven".

He also said, The only qualification we need to go up in the rapture, Is to be alive on the earth at the time, Then he said,
"We don't have to be holy or faithful".

I had a lady friend who was a follower of Joseph Prince, [He is her favourite minister], And she said to me,
"If you drop this holiness thing, I'll still be your friend".
As soon as I heard that, I ended my friendship with her.

So Why do people defend the hyper Bible snipers. DIS- grace teachers

Another whose condemnation is just.

 

[God4me]

why do you go out of your way to detract from the op and try to derail?

I didn't detract or derail the op, I added to it.

 

[God4me]

Another whose condemnation is just.

You are right, JP and other hyper grace teachers, do condemn themselves. By teaching error.

 

[LaurenTM]

I didn't detract or derail the op, I added to it.

like you add to God's word when you say Jesus wore designer clothes and lived in a big fancy house

that is not the Jesus of the Bible...that is pure nonsense

if you still wish to call the grace of God sin, there is nothing anyone can do for you

you do add. and it is not a good thing

 

[Sac49]

Then basically "hyper grace" is a way to comdone sin by twisting Gods Word to what they want it to say. There is no grace in that belief then. It would actually be a removal of grace. Might as well throw the Bible out the window if thats true. And might as well get rid of all Jesus teaching about avoiding sin.

Beware of wolves in sheeps clothing.

 

[FreeNChrist]

You are right, JP and other hyper grace teachers, do condemn themselves. By teaching error.

LOL. It's you dude. You're condemnation is just.

 

[LaurenTM]

Yes. That would be what those who have labeled the message of grace as "hyper grace" believe about it. And as Paul says their condemnation is just.

"And why not do evil that good may come?—as some people slanderously charge us with saying. Their condemnation is just." Romans 3:8

I still have more concerns and research, but I am becoming convinced this entire hyper grace thing is a construct of the devil and fed to gullible individuals who do not study, but instead let others do the work for them and then spread the message and whether it be false or true is not their concern

we are each responsible for the things we say and teach...how we act...etc

these are serious accusations from people who do not know what they are talking about

Grace is not sin

what I have read so far, indicates that some believe people blame falling into ongoing sin on accepted false teaching about grace. that, is folly and creates even more division

either way, ignorance is no excuse. the devil will take every opportunity to destroy and false accusations against believers are one of his favorite games to play

I will call sin what it is and I will call grace what it is

People are not sinning because of grace. they sin because that is the nature resulting from the fall

of course the devil will attack God's grace. and who better to do it through then believers who may think they do God a service but in reality, still think good works save them.

 

[LaurenTM]

Then basically "hyper grace" is a way to comdone sin by twisting Gods Word to what they want it to say. There is no grace in that belief then. It would actually be a removal of grace. Might as well throw the Bible out the window if thats true. And might as well get rid of all Jesus teaching about avoiding sin.

Beware of wolves in sheeps clothing.

you are doing exactly what I am opposing

there is no hyper grace

there is God's grace

and there is sin

sinning is not removing the grace of God. God's grace is always available

people are making up bizarre doctrines and calling them fancy names but they are deception and lies

hyper grace does not exist. grace exists.

if someone sins, what excuse do they need? people have been sinning since the garden.

stop feeding into the lie

 

[FreeNChrist]

Then basically "hyper grace" is a way to comdone sin by twisting Gods Word to what they want it to say. There is no grace in that belief then. It would actually be a removal of grace. Might as well throw the Bible out the window if thats true. And might as well get rid of all Jesus teaching about avoiding sin.

Beware of wolves in sheeps clothing.

Yes. Those who have labeled the message of God's grace as "hyper grace" in an effort to discredit it, have twisted it to what they want to say. And their condemnation is just.

 

[Grace777x70]

Then basically "hyper grace" is a way to comdone sin by twisting Gods Word to what they want it to say. There is no grace in that belief then. It would actually be a removal of grace. Might as well throw the Bible out the window if thats true. And might as well get rid of all Jesus teaching about avoiding sin.

Beware of wolves in sheeps clothing.

No...you have it wrong. Grace believers say the complete opposite of what you said. Grace believers do not condone sin in any form.

If you would watch the video on this link below - it'll explain that for you that grace does not give a license to sin. It's only 16 minutes long and I encourage you to watch it if you want to find out what is 'really" being said.

http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...e-has-best-title-hyper-grace.html#post2715132

 

[FreeNChrist]

I still have more concerns and research, but I am becoming convinced this entire hyper grace thing is a construct of the devil and fed to gullible individuals who do not study, but instead let others do the work for them and then spread the message and whether it be false or true is not their concern

we are each responsible for the things we say and teach...how we act...etc

these are serious accusations from people who do not know what they are talking about

Grace is not sin

what I have read so far, indicates that some believe people blame falling into ongoing sin on accepted false teaching about grace. that, is folly and creates even more division

either way, ignorance is no excuse. the devil will take every opportunity to destroy and false accusations against believers are one of his favorite games to play

I will call sin what it is and I will call grace what it is

People are not sinning because of grace. they sin because that is the nature resulting from the fall

of course the devil will attack God's grace. and who better to do it through then believers who may think they do God a service but in reality, still think good works save them.

People oppose the unadulterated message of God's grace because it humiliates them. Add a little Law here, a little more there, and everyone will give it a big "amen". But please don't say that there is nothing we can do, I have to do something! But grace rejects all of that. The nature of grace is our rejection of any confidence in ourselves, and the trusting of ourselves entirely to Jesus. And that scares people to death. Literally.