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listen
God does not change. His grace is always available. The devil hates that as his mission is to steal, kill and destroy. (John 10:10)
he prowls about looking for those he can destroy by stealing the word. if you are not grounded in scripture, you have no defense because the truth is the weapon against the lie. in the end, if you accept the lie, it will kill you.
Eve accepted the lie and it killed all of us...but don't blame just her. There were 2 in the garden that day. IMO, to this day, men shirk responsibility and women get mad at them for it. (speaking in generalities here, don't take it personal)
all kinds of disaster ensued from that day
every temptation Jesus suffered in the wilderness, He refused by stating the truth as opposed to the lie of the devil
if people see different kinds of grace, instead of the one and only grace offered by God, it will end in chaos and it is on the way there now
Grace, unmerited favor of God to us...forgiveness of sins....is the only thing the Bible speaks of
That is all you really need to understand
the rest is just a smoke screen to take your eyes off Jesus and an opportunity to accuse the brethren and do the devil's work for him
of course we judge what is true and not...but you cannot do that if you cannot even understand the basic gospel which begins with the grace of God
that would explain why the subversive, determined and slanderous attack on grace is ongoing
stop playing into it, repent...change your mind to align with what God says...and reject all the isms and false doctrines
and don't now tell me that hyper grace is a false doctrine
ANYTHING except biblical grace is a false doctrine...that would include calling what God offers hyper
God does not change. His grace is always available. The devil hates that as his mission is to steal, kill and destroy. (John 10:10)
he prowls about looking for those he can destroy by stealing the word. if you are not grounded in scripture, you have no defense because the truth is the weapon against the lie. in the end, if you accept the lie, it will kill you.
Eve accepted the lie and it killed all of us...but don't blame just her. There were 2 in the garden that day. IMO, to this day, men shirk responsibility and women get mad at them for it. (speaking in generalities here, don't take it personal)
all kinds of disaster ensued from that day
every temptation Jesus suffered in the wilderness, He refused by stating the truth as opposed to the lie of the devil
if people see different kinds of grace, instead of the one and only grace offered by God, it will end in chaos and it is on the way there now
Grace, unmerited favor of God to us...forgiveness of sins....is the only thing the Bible speaks of
That is all you really need to understand
the rest is just a smoke screen to take your eyes off Jesus and an opportunity to accuse the brethren and do the devil's work for him
of course we judge what is true and not...but you cannot do that if you cannot even understand the basic gospel which begins with the grace of God
that would explain why the subversive, determined and slanderous attack on grace is ongoing
stop playing into it, repent...change your mind to align with what God says...and reject all the isms and false doctrines
and don't now tell me that hyper grace is a false doctrine
ANYTHING except biblical grace is a false doctrine...that would include calling what God offers hyper
From what i can see this "hyper grace" thing is taking it from "by the grace of God i am free OF sin" to "by the grace of God i am free TO sin". By Gods grace we can be free of the slavery of sin. By "hyper grace" we are doing nothing but puting the chains of sin back on.
Sorry as i am having trouble understanding this "hyper grace" thing. It doesnt make any sense to me as Gods grace, through His sanctifying work in us, is helping us remove sin from our lives, not finding a way to sin using Gods Word to justify it.
Sorry as i am having trouble understanding this "hyper grace" thing. It doesnt make any sense to me as Gods grace, through His sanctifying work in us, is helping us remove sin from our lives, not finding a way to sin using Gods Word to justify it.
Generally, when you see someone who has no place to lay his head (we call that man a homeless person), you don't see him walking around in designer clothes looking very spiffy and polished. And, in fact, if you DID see this man, you would be greatly amazed that he would be so well dressed instead of spending his money on a place to live! You probably wouldn't give him any money because you'd be scared he'd just waste it on more wonderful clothes instead of on paying rent for a place...
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I have reported your post
you are trying to derail and start an argument with your designer clothes nonsense
you did the same thing in another thread. you insert total nonsense into a thread and people oppose it and pretty soon we have a whole new topic that you introduced
you have nothing of worth to contribute...I wish it were not so, but you prove over and over that you do not wish to have an honest discussion
L
hey ~ I've already reported his nonsense
he just wants to derail
let's make sure he does not do that by not responding any further
you know, this kind of thing happens frequently for various reasons. he can start a thread in the miscellaneous section if he wants to discuss what appears to be his favorite topic
You have that first part incorrect and that seems to be a common mis-understanding of what is being said - grace believers say that we are free "from" sin not free "to" sin. Grace believers say the exact opposite of what you said here.
Just as you said - There is definitely "empowering grace" to effect changes in us.
There are 2 aspects to grace. The very first thing that Jesus does with the woman caught in adultery is that He gets rid of her accusers - the religious Pharisees that wanted to condemn her because the "bible" said so in the Old Covenant...she was to be stoned. ( the law condemns us )
Jesus was the only one qualified to condemn her but He didn't.
1) acceptance grace - which has nothing to do with our behavior - as seen with the woman caught in adultery. Our Lord beautifully says " I do not condemn you".
It is in knowing you are not condemned that releases the other aspect of grace.
2) now, go and sin no more - this is empowering grace.
Empowering grace enables you to be who the Father sees you are in Christ now because you are a new creation in Him.
The religious mindset says to the woman caught in adultery - 'Do not sin and we will not condemn you."
The grace of God and the blood of Jesus speaks of better things in this New Covenant of grace!
"Knowing" that we are not condemned in Christ "releases" the life of the empowering grace to transform us. It's all about Christ! It's His fruit being manifested in us!
Acceptance grace which is not based on our behavior needs to be cemented in our hearts before empowering grace is able to be manifested.
What believers in a self-effort/self-performance D.I.Y. holiness/righteousness based mindset and the self-appointed "fruit inspectors" have a very hard time with is the "acceptance grace" part...this just drives them nuts...and I understand why..it is scandalous and it "conflicts" with their religious man-made traditions.
Just as you said - There is definitely "empowering grace" to effect changes in us.
There are 2 aspects to grace. The very first thing that Jesus does with the woman caught in adultery is that He gets rid of her accusers - the religious Pharisees that wanted to condemn her because the "bible" said so in the Old Covenant...she was to be stoned. ( the law condemns us )
Jesus was the only one qualified to condemn her but He didn't.
1) acceptance grace - which has nothing to do with our behavior - as seen with the woman caught in adultery. Our Lord beautifully says " I do not condemn you".
It is in knowing you are not condemned that releases the other aspect of grace.
2) now, go and sin no more - this is empowering grace.
Empowering grace enables you to be who the Father sees you are in Christ now because you are a new creation in Him.
The religious mindset says to the woman caught in adultery - 'Do not sin and we will not condemn you."
The grace of God and the blood of Jesus speaks of better things in this New Covenant of grace!
"Knowing" that we are not condemned in Christ "releases" the life of the empowering grace to transform us. It's all about Christ! It's His fruit being manifested in us!
Acceptance grace which is not based on our behavior needs to be cemented in our hearts before empowering grace is able to be manifested.
What believers in a self-effort/self-performance D.I.Y. holiness/righteousness based mindset and the self-appointed "fruit inspectors" have a very hard time with is the "acceptance grace" part...this just drives them nuts...and I understand why..it is scandalous and it "conflicts" with their religious man-made traditions.
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I am finding that most everyone but the accusers (apparently) are having trouble understanding the hyper grace construct
that alone indicates it is a false doctrine introduced to throw people off the truth of God's grace
I really see no other grace but what God offers us and we need to understand all that that is
and exactly, through the grace of God, we come to realize our helplessness and hopelessness without Him. God alone gives atonement for sin through the shed blood of His Son, Jesus Christ
that, is what we KNOW, what we must CONTINUE to believe and not fall for getting sidetracked by doctrines of demons and false teachers who study other believers instead of the word
I am really seeing this hyper business as something that throws folks off the truth and attempts to make them believe that belief in Christ's COMPLETED work is somehow not all that is required
we KNOW you do not continue in sin. those who keep claiming that some say it is ok to sin, have begun to create a division that apparently not everyone can see
stick to the word and you cannot go wrong
I find the issue to be that men are saying G777 is leading men into great sin and apostasy when it is quite obvious, if you read his posts, that he does no such thing. It is quite easy to see that he has a heart toward God, even IF you don't agree with every single thing he says or believes. It is being presented that he is quite evil and devours men when he is almost constantly talking about how great our Lord is! Do you find that G777 is saying anywhere that he is free to sin anytime he wants, as much as he wants and we all should feel free to do so also...? Is that REALLY what you get from his posts?
Does G777 have to be perfect in all he says, thinks or does? Isn't he a man just like other men who strives to follow and trust more and more? Isn't he also growing in knowledge of our Lord just as we are? Isn't his mind being renewed more and more every day just like ours?
sorry sac, that was addressed to your last post but many posted in the interim.
Does G777 have to be perfect in all he says, thinks or does? Isn't he a man just like other men who strives to follow and trust more and more? Isn't he also growing in knowledge of our Lord just as we are? Isn't his mind being renewed more and more every day just like ours?
sorry sac, that was addressed to your last post but many posted in the interim.
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Thanks guys! please let's ignore the attempts at derailment
I appreciate honest questions and there are many people in this forum who will give honest answers, including 'I don't know'
beware of leaven indeed....the word is not puffed up and that is how we present and accept it
God is gracious and long suffering. He is not willing that anyone should perish.
Preserve the truth and the simplicity of the gospel in our Lord Jesus Christ
love you guys...be back later!
I appreciate honest questions and there are many people in this forum who will give honest answers, including 'I don't know'
beware of leaven indeed....the word is not puffed up and that is how we present and accept it
God is gracious and long suffering. He is not willing that anyone should perish.
Preserve the truth and the simplicity of the gospel in our Lord Jesus Christ
love you guys...be back later!
Yes lauren, you are right. I see he is just following our brother around, muttering against him, refusing to address the op, desiring only to tear this man down - not to help us in growing and building up our faith in our Lord. That loud sucking sound you heard was me pulling my foot out of the mud.
Yet, that kind of wrongful thinking was one of the huge problems in the early Church of Apostle Paul's day, as some believers thought Christ's Salvation was literally a license to sin. It was a huge problem back then.
So how can such licentiousness start manifesting again today in the Church? Well, we are in the last days, and we were warned that these kind of days with many false prophets would come, with members heaping up to themselves teachers that fill itching ears, just like what God said about rebellious Israel, say to their teachers to preach smooth things instead of the Word of God.
Rom 6:1-2
6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
KJV
Rom 6:15-23
15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.
20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.
21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.
22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
KJV
So how can such licentiousness start manifesting again today in the Church? Well, we are in the last days, and we were warned that these kind of days with many false prophets would come, with members heaping up to themselves teachers that fill itching ears, just like what God said about rebellious Israel, say to their teachers to preach smooth things instead of the Word of God.
Rom 6:1-2
6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
KJV
Rom 6:15-23
15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.
20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.
21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.
22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
KJV
I agree...that type of thinking will always come when the true gospel of the grace of God is preached. This is what makes God's grace "hyper" ( - if I can use that term in a good sense and not in a derogatory way )
When we preach the gospel of the grace of Christ and no one says "What?...are you saying we can just go out and sin because of grace?" - if no one says that to us when we are preaching the grace of God. Then we have not preached the gospel like Paul did.
The very nature of the gospel leads the carnal mind to think that it means we can sin all we want because of grace and this is also what the natural mind that some Christians live by...which is what they hear when they hear the true gospel being preached that grace believers are saying it's ok to sin all you want now because of grace.....the reality is what is being said is the complete opposite of what those listening with their natural minds think is being said.
We don't need to water down the gospel because it might get mis-understood as it takes away the full strength of the completed and awesome work that our Lord Jesus Christ did for all of us..
The answer to shall we sin so that grace may abound is in Romans chapters 6 and 7.
When we preach the gospel of the grace of Christ and no one says "What?...are you saying we can just go out and sin because of grace?" - if no one says that to us when we are preaching the grace of God. Then we have not preached the gospel like Paul did.
The very nature of the gospel leads the carnal mind to think that it means we can sin all we want because of grace and this is also what the natural mind that some Christians live by...which is what they hear when they hear the true gospel being preached that grace believers are saying it's ok to sin all you want now because of grace.....the reality is what is being said is the complete opposite of what those listening with their natural minds think is being said.
We don't need to water down the gospel because it might get mis-understood as it takes away the full strength of the completed and awesome work that our Lord Jesus Christ did for all of us..
The answer to shall we sin so that grace may abound is in Romans chapters 6 and 7.
That's a typical false grace teachers answer.
Their teaching give people a licence to sin, But when they are challenged, they say, "We're not saying that",
Or in your words,
"no one anywhere says it's ok to keep sinning", [End QUOTE].
Joseph Prince says when he sins, he is blessed, Because God isn't counting his sins against him.
So he is saying, Sin and be blessed.
I agree...that type of thinking will always come when the true gospel of the grace of God is preached. This is what makes God's grace "hyper" ( - if I can use that term in a good sense and not in a derogatory way )
When we preach the gospel of the grace of Christ and no one says "What?...are you saying we can just go out and sin because of grace?" - if no one says that to us when we are preaching the grace of God. Then we have not preached the gospel like Paul did.
The very nature of the gospel leads the carnal mind to think that it means we can sin all we want because of grace and this is also what the natural mind that some Christians live by...which is what they hear when they hear the true gospel being preached that grace believers are saying it's ok to sin all you want now because of grace.....the reality is what is being said is the complete opposite of what those listening with their natural minds think is being said.
We don't need to water down the gospel because it might get mis-understood as it takes away the full strength of the completed and awesome work that our Lord Jesus Christ did for all of us..
The answer to shall we sin so that grace may abound is in Romans chapters 6 and 7.
When we preach the gospel of the grace of Christ and no one says "What?...are you saying we can just go out and sin because of grace?" - if no one says that to us when we are preaching the grace of God. Then we have not preached the gospel like Paul did.
The very nature of the gospel leads the carnal mind to think that it means we can sin all we want because of grace and this is also what the natural mind that some Christians live by...which is what they hear when they hear the true gospel being preached that grace believers are saying it's ok to sin all you want now because of grace.....the reality is what is being said is the complete opposite of what those listening with their natural minds think is being said.
We don't need to water down the gospel because it might get mis-understood as it takes away the full strength of the completed and awesome work that our Lord Jesus Christ did for all of us..
The answer to shall we sin so that grace may abound is in Romans chapters 6 and 7.
See, Paul didn't teach we cannot ever sin again; instead he taught the difference between the habitual sinner who has not really turned their heart to Jesus vs. those who have yielded their "...members servants to righteousness unto holiness."
The idea of the 'habitual sinner' was first established back in the OT, somewhere in Isaiah (Isaiah 5 I think). A habitual sinner doesn't mean one who is struggling to overcome a particular sin in their life. It refers to a sinner who doesn't care... if they sin or not. God explained it like a sinner who hauls around a cart full of sins pulled by a rope, like for show and tell, proud of sinning.
The essential Message God gives us about sin under The New Covenant is how He well knows we cannot be perfect without sin while in this flesh like His Son was. If we could be, then would we need Christ? We all fall short of the glory of God Paul says, and that the Scripture has concluded us all under sin so that salvation would be by Faith for those who believe on Jesus Christ.
So we are not to go beating ourselves up over little mistakes and slip-ups we may make. We're to recognize our sin, repent to Him, and try to correct it best we can, and then get back to serving Him. It's as simple as that.
But to refuse to even 'recognize' when we sin, and refuse to repent of it, or attempt to make a change, then that is a sign of a major problem. It is to become an apostate away from Christ Jesus.