Let's Take a Deeper Look at this Hyper Stuff

[posthuman]

the same issue here is the same issue that is underneath the accusations of 'OSAS'

it's a nonbiblical, false assumption about what constitutes 'being saved' or 'becoming a Christian'

is is not simply repeating 'a sinners prayer' or 'giving your heart to Jesus' or 'accepting Him as your savior' or 'asking Jesus into your heart' or 'walking up to the altar' or 'rededicating your life' or any number of other things which you will not find in scripture.
& on top of that, is not following a group of commandments, a list of dos and don'ts. the Law does not justify and does not save.

to see the kingdom of God, you must be born again.
salvation takes place when God Himself calls, and we answer according to the faith that He Himself gives us.
when we hear & believe we are sealed with a guarantee -- but that is not 'belief' as in plain mental assent or acquiescing to a set of 12 steps that some evangelist concerned with meeting some kind of quota, and not with actually making disciples, has put on a bit of paper and passed around the tent meeting.

we are talking about real belief that works effective change. and that change is a thing God does to us -- the 'born again' are literally reborn, and become new. with new desires and a new heart and a mind being renewed and a life being regenerated.

quite simply, just as scripture states, those who go on living in sin as if it is nothing to do so, and who live as though nothing has happened to them internally and nothing has changed about their fundamental nature, have not had a fundamental change of heart & mind.
the evidence that they are presenting with their lives is that they are not saved and never have been -- because 'being saved' is not checking a box. it is an actual, life-changing phenomena.

and it is a grace that is 'hyper' and supernatural and superlative in every respect.

but the accusations are predicated on a definition of salvation that does not include being literally reborn not the process of regeneration or renewal or redemption. the accusers predicate their arguments on a definition of salvation that amounts to "clicking yes" on a graphical user interface.


the grace of God is real, incredible, and all-sufficient.
the salvation of God is real and beyond description.
those who are saved can never be lost again.
nothing, nothing can separate us from the love of God.
God will complete the work He began, and none can take out of His hand what He holds.

but not all who claim to have this, have this.
many are called - few are chosen.
chosen.
that means someone else chooses -- God.
you want to dispute the preservation of the saints or the limits of God's everlasting faithfulness & kindness?
then you are disputing God's own power & sovereignty.
so dispute whether He chose this one or that one or not.
but do not question whether God is able! fear Him!

 

[Angela53510]

Well Angela, to keep the malice and slander down to a minimum if you are interested in the truth - I hardly listen to Joseph Prince ( I listen to over a hundred different teachers from many denominations and the amount of time I have listened to Prince would be very small in comparison ) - as I only use his videos from time to time because he has short ones which sometimes address directly a subject.

In truth I post other teacher's videos more then JP - perhaps it's malice towards him that highlights it in your mind more?

The same goes for the Escape to Reality website. I like to use that sometimes when a subject comes up because it tackles obscure scriptures and also answers the mis-understandings that some spread about believing in God's grace. It also has at the bottom a place where others have asked legitimate questions and sometimes I myself have gained more insight by this feature.'

If these offend you = then don't listen to them. I enjoy grace-based teachings and since I have been on CC I have had many Pm-ing me to thank me for the videos and websites that have helped them to grow in the Lord and to see the marvelous grace and love that our Lord has for them.

I myself study the scriptures all the time despite your attempt to malign my biblical habits. In this last bout of studying I have averaged 8 hours a day for the last 4 years. I just say that so that you can now perhaps start speaking with some more understanding.

Thank you as you consider what I have written. Perhaps we should spend more time lifting up the Lord Jesus Christ so that we can keep our eyes on Him and all grow up in Him - established in His wondrous grace and love for us.

Well, actually, that is not true. When you first came to CC, you literally posted links to Paul Ellis' website "Escape to Reality" at the end of every post. For a while I thought it was your website, but then I realized the writing style was too different when I actually read one of the articles, which was rife with hermeneutical errors.

And you would still be posting links to Paul Ellis' website every post, if you hadn't been told not to, rumour has it. (Of course, I may be wrong about the warning - but it does seem reasonable, considering you abruptly stopped adding the links with every post.)

Then there is the next thing - you listen to "well over a hundred different teachers??" How sad! Why don't you just read and study the Bible, instead? I have found the most shallow level of preaching by most (not all!) internet preachers that you are "listening to." And if you have only touched the surface of JP's videos and books and links, well, that is also sad, beccause you certainly got sucked into his false gospel in a very rapid way, and without even going deep into what he believes?

Oh sorry, you read the Bible for what was it, 8 hours a day? Since you are listening to all these hundreds of hypergrace teachers over and over, and but also amassed over 10,000 posts in only 8 months at CC. Let me ask you - do you not sleep or eat? Do you have no hobbies or recreational activists? And you must be retired, because there aren't enough hours in a day left from that schedule to work for a living. Or is this just blatant exaggeration for the sake of effect? Another "Hyper" word - hyperbole. You do excel at that!

I know how hard I studied and worked when I was in Seminary, plus my personal devotions and prayer life. I personally don't think anyone can study the Bible 8 hours a day for 4 years, listen to 100's of Internet teachers, and spend what? 10-12 hours a day on CC. Nope, the numbers are just not adding up for me. And I do hope a few people who have been netted into the heresy will also just think on the numbers given here. Because if they do not add up, they are either an outright lie, or maybe delusion. I would hope delusion, just like the delusion of JP's hypergrace, because lying is a blatant sin, instead of a sin of ignorance.

Malice, not at all! But willing to stand up and defend the true gospel against those you have sucked into your hypergrace gospel, along with all your "grace" friends who jumped in to aide and abet you, when you didn't get this forum on a leash quickly enough. Call them the "already convinced" hypergrace crowd. All conjecture, of course. Just odd when so many people notice the same thing, don't you think?

Don't pretend to be "hurt" and like you are friends with everyone, only here to glorify God, when in fact, you came in here from post #1 with the express purpose of making converts to your false gospel. A gospel which twists words in the Bible, twists the words in posts, and tries to make others like me seem full of "malice" when God has called me to stand against the harmful lies you have been preaching. Even today, I had to counsel people to not be hurt by the attacks they got, when they wandered into this hypergrace nightmare for the first time.

Let's see, what did one person say? Oh right? It just doesn't make sense! And then the "double talk." (Shades of 1984 - no wait, that is doublespeak! But that works for me, too.) Absolutely, I told these people. God is not mocked. The basic principles of hypergrace are clearly laid out on the Internet, by both those in the movement and those who oppose it. So I am not telling anyone something that is not available everywhere. But I will stand against those who are actively proselytizing this heresy of hypergrace, trying to make converts, just as I would do if JW or Morman or even a Muslim came in here with their false doctrines, and carried on a campaign for 8 months to try and change the BDF into the "HGF"

 

[Grace777x70]

Well, actually, that is not true. When you first came to CC, you literally posted links to Paul Ellis' website "Escape to Reality" at the end of every post. For a while I thought it was your website, but then I realized the writing style was too different when I actually read one of the articles, which was rife with hermeneutical errors.

And you would still be posting links to Paul Ellis' website every post, if you hadn't been told not to, rumour has it. (Of course, I may be wrong about the warning - but it does seem reasonable, considering you abruptly stopped adding the links with every post.)

Then there is the next thing - you listen to "well over a hundred different teachers??" How sad! Why don't you just read and study the Bible, instead? I have found the most shallow level of preaching by most (not all!) internet preachers that you are "listening to." And if you have only touched the surface of JP's videos and books and links, well, that is also sad, beccause you certainly got sucked into his false gospel in a very rapid way, and without even going deep into what he believes?

Oh sorry, you read the Bible for what was it, 8 hours a day? Since you are listening to all these hundreds of hypergrace teachers over and over, and but also amassed over 10,000 posts in only 8 months at CC. Let me ask you - do you not sleep or eat? Do you have no hobbies or recreational activists? And you must be retired, because there aren't enough hours in a day left from that schedule to work for a living. Or is this just blatant exaggeration for the sake of effect? Another "Hyper" word - hyperbole. You do excel at that!

I know how hard I studied and worked when I was in Seminary, plus my personal devotions and prayer life. I personally don't think anyone can study the Bible 8 hours a day for 4 years, listen to 100's of Internet teachers, and spend what? 10-12 hours a day on CC. Nope, the numbers are just not adding up for me. And I do hope a few people who have been netted into the heresy will also just think on the numbers given here. Because if they do not add up, they are either an outright lie, or maybe delusion. I would hope delusion, just like the delusion of JP's hypergrace, because lying is a blatant sin, instead of a sin of ignorance.

Malice, not at all! But willing to stand up and defend the true gospel against those you have sucked into your hypergrace gospel, along with all your "grace" friends who jumped in to aide and abet you, when you didn't get this forum on a leash quickly enough. Call them the "already convinced" hypergrace crowd. All conjecture, of course. Just odd when so many people notice the same thing, don't you think?

Don't pretend to be "hurt" and like you are friends with everyone, only here to glorify God, when in fact, you came in here from post #1 with the express purpose of making converts to your false gospel. A gospel which twists words in the Bible, twists the words in posts, and tries to make others like me seem full of "malice" when God has called me to stand against the harmful lies you have been preaching. Even today, I had to counsel people to not be hurt by the attacks they got, when they wandered into this hypergrace nightmare for the first time.

Let's see, what did one person say? Oh right? It just doesn't make sense! And then the "double talk." (Shades of 1984 - no wait, that is doublespeak! But that works for me, too.) Absolutely, I told these people. God is not mocked. The basic principles of hypergrace are clearly laid out on the Internet, by both those in the movement and those who oppose it. So I am not telling anyone something that is not available everywhere. But I will stand against those who are actively proselytizing this heresy of hypergrace, trying to make converts, just as I would do if JW or Morman or even a Muslim came in here with their false doctrines, and carried on a campaign for 8 months to try and change the BDF into the "HGF"

Hi Angela,

When I first came to CC I did post from the website a few times more then now because I was thinking people might want to see scripture from a grace-based point of view and the articles were good and as I said - they had questions at the bottom where people could ask a question about a teaching or truth which I thought was a great idea. I was never on a Christian Chat site before so I thought people might be actually interested in reading things - like I am.

And I did not add links to a website with every post. That's pure nonsense.

You are definitely wrong about the rumor that I was told to stop - that is not true in any sense as no one ever contacted me about any websites except the people that told me how they were blessed by them.

Who told you this malicious gossip that I was told to stop as the purpose of this rumor was obviously to malign me? This might answer a lot of things. Who behind the scenes was giving you this gossip? Please tell us who told you this "rumor".

Please be honest and answer the green above so that we can see were this "rumor" came from as it will answer a lot of what is happening here.

I study the scriptures as I feel the Lord has me to do and it changes at different times so - no, I don't read the bible for 8 hours. That is what you interpreted it as being. I study from my software program if that's ok with you and that doesn't offend you.

You can say what you want but I spoke the truth about how much I have studied - doing it in different forms as I didn't say I read the bible itself for 8 hours. I study - which mean different methods....including meditating and looking at the greek...to listening to who I feel the Lord wants me to listen to at the time. If those methods offend you - then be offended and your continued attempts to malign me are falling on deaf ears as you are not in authority over anyone's way that they spend time with the Lord and as to how they study.

Despite your apparent malice for me and others - I came here to share about the wondrous grace and love of God for us. I am confident that an honest person looking at my posts would say that I attempt to lift Jesus up and to make people learn more about Him and to depend on Him for everything. If this offends you - then you will just have to be offended. ( watch out for yourself as you are creating a Hebrews 12:15 situation which I do not want to see happen to anyone )

If some things that you don't agree with is heresy to you - then you are free to have your own opinion as everyone else is in the body of Christ.

Angela - you are allowed to have a different opinion of some scriptures then the next person. Now, you can continue to attempt to malign me or we can agree to disagree on some areas and walk on in peace, trusting the Lord Jesus Christ.

I always thank our Lord for you when the Holy Spirit brings you to my mind and I will continue to speak your name in front of our loving Father and ask that you be blessed and that you would grow in the grace and knowledge of our beautiful Lord Jesus . Bless you

 

[oyster67]

Just to clarify the situation we are dealing with here on CC.

It is not simply a discussion of OSAS-Eternal Security (the majority) vs. Perfectionism-Legalism (just a few).

There is at least one other group. They believe we are saved by grace, kept by this umbrella of grace, and that works is merely a product-fruit of living by faith. The only difference between the OSAS and the third group is that the third group believes that the Bible teaches that it is theoretically possible to willfully step out from under the keeping umbrella. This stepping away has nothing to do with ceasing to do good works. It has everything to do with starting to cultivate a spirit of rebellion against God.

Can you see the difference between the Perfectionist-Legalist and this third group, or can you not?

 

[BenFTW]

-snip-
Don't pretend to be "hurt" and like you are friends with everyone, only here to glorify God, when in fact, you came in here from post #1 with the express purpose of making converts to your false gospel. A gospel which twists words in the Bible, twists the words in posts, and tries to make others like me seem full of "malice" when God has called me to stand against the harmful lies you have been preaching. Even today, I had to counsel people to not be hurt by the attacks they got, when they wandered into this hypergrace nightmare for the first time.
-snip-

First off, you're being exceptionally rude to Grace777x70. Basically telling him to get a life. You should simmer down, you're getting extremely personal. Secondly, this is the 2nd time you've posted that God, Himself, has spoken to you about Grace777x70 and to oppose him (now it is your "calling"), and to stand against grace teachings. First on repentance and now as a general statement that God has called you to "stand against the harmful lies you have been preaching" towards Grace777x70. I am not sorry to break it to you, but the Lord did not give you a mission statement of opposing Grace777x70 and to correct so called lies that only exalt His Son.

I almost feel like this is something that should be reported, truth be told. You have a right to free speech and to share as you wish but now you're getting extremely personal, offensive, and rude. On top of that you're saying that the Lord has called you to oppose what he teaches. Granted Grace777x70 has responded to you in meekness and gracefully, I think you need to calm down with the accusations that make him a liar, heretic, and false teacher that God has called you to oppose. You said the Holy Spirit through Grace's posts has revealed to you that he is preaching another gospel, or not a biblical faith. (post http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/138974-repentance-boast-flesh-22.html#post2711082 ) I am thinking you should be a little less vocal with these statements because, and in actuality, the Lord did no such thing. He will not contradict and oppose and diminish the work of Jesus Christ.

I think you've gone over into the deep end. You used to like all of these posts that were grace-filled. I am not sure what happened or what veil you perceive has been lifted off your eyes, but I can assure you someone has lied to you, or you're listening to someone or something that you shouldn't be. All of these "God told me", and "Holy Spirit revealed to me" expressly in reference to Grace777x70's posts on grace and it being "another gospel" is troublesome. Not that you don't hear the Lord, but you've gone full on going for the jugular mark him as a heretic and defame him mindset. I mean you're doing it passionately, vehemently opposing his posts lately. Seeing this, and knowing the truth, its so weird to see someone claiming my God has revealed this to them (that he is teaching another gospel) when that same Lord has taught me and brought me to an understanding of the grace Grace777x70 shares.

VVhat are we to do now?

 

[Angela53510]

Hi Angela,

When I first came to CC I did post from the website a few times more then now because I was thinking people might want to see scripture from a grace-based point of view and the articles were good and as I said - they had questions at the bottom where people could ask a question about a teaching or truth which I thought was a great idea. I was never on a Christian Chat site before so I thought people might be actually interested in reading things - like I am.

And I did not add links to a website with every post. That's pure nonsense.

You are definitely wrong about the rumor that I was told to stop - that is not true in any sense as no one ever contacted me about any websites except the people that told me how they were blessed by them.

Who told you this malicious gossip that I was told to stop as the purpose of this rumor was obviously to malign me? This might answer a lot of things. Who behind the scenes was giving you this gossip? Please tell us who told you this "rumor".

Please be honest and answer the green above so that we can see were this "rumor" came from as it will answer a lot of what is happening here.

I study the scriptures as I feel the Lord has me to do and it changes at different times so - no, I don't read the bible for 8 hours. That is what you interpreted it as being. I study from my software program if that's ok with you and that doesn't offend you.

You can say what you want but I spoke the truth about how much I have studied - doing it in different forms as I didn't say I read the bible itself for 8 hours. I study - which mean different methods....including meditating and looking at the greek...to listening to who I feel the Lord wants me to listen to at the time. If those methods offend you - then be offended and your continued attempts to malign me are falling on deaf ears as you are not in authority over anyone's way that they spend time with the Lord and as to how they study.

Despite your apparent malice for me and others - I came here to share about the wondrous grace and love of God for us. I am confident that an honest person looking at my posts would say that I attempt to lift Jesus up and to make people learn more about Him and to depend on Him for everything. If this offends you - then you will just have to be offended. ( watch out for yourself as you are creating a Hebrews 12:15 situation which I do not want to see happen to anyone )

If some things that you don't agree with is heresy to you - then you are free to have your own opinion as everyone else is in the body of Christ.

Angela - you are allowed to have a different opinion of some scriptures then the next person. Now, you can continue to attempt to malign me or we can agree to disagree on some areas and walk on in peace, trusting the Lord Jesus Christ.

I always thank our Lord for you when the Holy Spirit brings you to my mind and I will continue to speak your name in front of our loving Father and ask that you be blessed and that you would grow in the grace and knowledge of our beautiful Lord Jesus . Bless you

So people think I am maligning you and I should be reported? For calling out your lifestyle? I think it would be great if you studied the Bible 8 hours a day. But there are only 24 hours in a day. Take 8 hours out for sleep, another 2 for meals, or maybe less if you get the meal prepared for you and eat it fast. But for arguments sake, let's say, 10 hours just to feed and restore the physical body.

So that leaves 14 hours left in the day. Minus the 8 hours a day studying the Bible, and now you have 6 hours left. How many hours a day to listen to those "hundreds of Internet preachers?" I don't know. I certainly don't have time in my life to listen to preachers on-line. I won't even listen to 2 minute sermons or 4 minute songs on YouTube or FB. But, again, pick a number of 1 hour a day? Because that would get you three 3 sermons per "100's" of Internet preachers, rounding the extra 64 days for maybe 4 sermons for his favourite preachers per year, and some single or double sermons by some of the lesser hundreds.

So now we are down to 5 hours left in the day. I would hope you go to church, maybe the occasional walk, shop for groceries, do laundry, etc. So take off another hour a day, leaving us with 4 hours a day on CC. Now assuming
Grace777 never goes out of the house, spends that extra 4 hours online, is it possible to even physically post 10,000 plus posts in 8 months, with only 4 short hours a day? Of course, a lot of those posts were copy and pastes, and the same scriptures over and over. But still, it does take a bit of thought to post, if you really want it to mean something? Or maybe that is just me?

So assuming Bruce has been here 8 months or 240 days, posting 4 hours a day, with 10,418 posts so far, if you add and multiply and divide that up (I know, show your work! 240 days X 4 hours per day = 960 hours. 10418 posts, which is the current running total posts, divided by 960 hours, = approximately 10.85 posts per day! Every day 7 days a week for 8 months.) That's hard work! That's a full time job! Even if so much of it is just regurgitating the same false doctrine and twisting the words of the Bible and people.

Oh, here is a perfect example of words being twisted - mine and his own.

Grace777 in post #119 page 6, which I quoted above:
"In this last bout of studying I have averaged 8 hours a day for the last 4 years. I just say that so that you can now perhaps start speaking with some more understanding."

This clearly says he "averaged" 8 hours a day for the last 4 years of Bible study. That means some days even more, and obviously a few other days, less.

Me in post #122 page 7

"Oh sorry, you read the Bible for what was it, 8 hours a day?" (I am just struggling to express the physical parameters, not criticizing for studying that much! Or even being online constantly, which is his privilege!)

Ok, then we come to Grace777's post #123 on page 7

"You can say what you want but I spoke the truth about how much I have studied - doing it in different forms as I didn't say I read the bible itself for 8 hours. I study - which mean different methods....including meditating and looking at the greek...to listening to who I feel the Lord wants me to listen to at the time."
Hmmm. One minute he is averaging studying 8 hours a day, and then in the rest of this paragraph, he outlines his methods as if that makes it clear he didn't mean what he said earlier. Except I have no problem with his study methods, if that is what he did. I applaud such dedication to the Word of God.

What I do not applaud is people who exaggerate. You simply cannot study the Word of God, whatever method - reading, meditating, praying, studying the Greek, word studies, even commetaries, which is a slight step away, but still a valid method of study, for 8 hours a day, and post on CC for hours and hours, and eat, sleep and live a bit, listen to "100's" of Internet preachers and their long sermons and have time to do it all. It is a physical impossibility. Oh wait, is he saying that listening to Internet preachers is part of his studies? Ok, maybe he is right about me, that is something I cannot abide, and it does not constitute proper Bible study, although of course, you are free to study however you want, don't try to get me to accept that is a valid method of study.

I would never condemn anyone's lifestyle that is dedicated to studying the word of God. What I condemn is the obvious exaggeration in Bruce's posts, as to how much time he spends studying, especially when he is on CC all the time.

I had to cut my internet time, not just CC, but my support groups I run, my support groups I go to to receive help and advice for my physical illnesses. Because after studying the Bible and Greek for maybe, and hour and a half daily, trying to keep a house clean, sleeping, playing flute about 50 minutes a day, (my church ministry along with preaching!) and work in the garden, there was simply not a spare minute left in my day. And my internet time is the morning, when I cannot move well, I read the news, and as my drugs start to work, I move to posting here and on FB. But, the Internet is simply not my priority these days, although I have come into this thread to stand against the word twisting, the exaggerations and the lies of hypergrace, particularly when I see others being seduced by a false gospel, as I was.

So please accept my apologies if you thought, along with others, I was condemning your methods of Bible study's it's the exception of listening to Internet preachers, if that was indeed part of that time. But I am questioning the actual hours spent, especially in light of life and the amount of time spent posting here at CC. Being a math brain can be a burden sometimes!

I've spent too much time online, but I am going to be coming back, I hope and continuing to confront this hypergrace gospel, which is not biblical Christianity. And sorry about the formatting, I hate it when the fonts/size and other things like boldness are locked. Nothing to do with anyone, just something I am trying to work through, when it may not be possible to teach my IPad new tricks.

 

[PeterJens]

the Lord did not give you a mission statement

This statement by itself is speaking from the Lord.
The problem is if you find a fundamental principle of faith is not only questioned but contradicted
on the basis of personal inspiration from God, then all believers will be commissioned to stand for
their faith. It is our core belief.

Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect, keeping a clear conscience, so that those who speak maliciously against your good behavior in Christ may be ashamed of their slander.
1 Peter 3:15-16

In fact if one does not stand for ones own faith, what value is it.
We expect the Lord based on our faith, to change our bodies, from mortal to immortal bodies
and dwell with us for all eternity.

So I would wonder if in such discussions more do not respond.
And to be honest it is a good thing.

What I know is Christ is fantastic. His love should just overwhelm us, so it is not a question of
why is sin such an issue in my life, but where can I next bless those around me.

I empathise with so many struggling with legalism and self condemnation, yet not being open
and honest with others around them for fear of rejection. This is not what Jesus had in mind in
bringing the freedom of Heaven to earth. The lie is ofcourse it was the churches problem and not
the shutting out of love from the believers heart.

Imagine this. We preach we should forgive people when they sin against us, but when it is a
fellow believer who should really understand us, it hurts, badly, so we should then really go off
and condemn them for their hypocracy. No, if we cannot forgive our fellow brothers and sisters
in Christ what hope have we to forgive those who truly are evil and would kill us given the chance.

So I forgive you, though I do not really know what of, and encourage you to spend time listening
to Jesus and the next step He is leading you to take.

Thankyou dear friends for bearing with me, and my offence or insult, which truly I do not intend.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Well, actually, that is not true. When you first came to CC, you literally posted links to Paul Ellis' website "Escape to Reality" at the end of every post. For a while I thought it was your website, but then I realized the writing style was too different when I actually read one of the articles, which was rife with hermeneutical errors.

And you would still be posting links to Paul Ellis' website every post, if you hadn't been told not to, rumour has it. (Of course, I may be wrong about the warning - but it does seem reasonable, considering you abruptly stopped adding the links with every post.)

Then there is the next thing - you listen to "well over a hundred different teachers??" How sad! Why don't you just read and study the Bible, instead? I have found the most shallow level of preaching by most (not all!) internet preachers that you are "listening to." And if you have only touched the surface of JP's videos and books and links, well, that is also sad, beccause you certainly got sucked into his false gospel in a very rapid way, and without even going deep into what he believes?

Oh sorry, you read the Bible for what was it, 8 hours a day? Since you are listening to all these hundreds of hypergrace teachers over and over, and but also amassed over 10,000 posts in only 8 months at CC. Let me ask you - do you not sleep or eat? Do you have no hobbies or recreational activists? And you must be retired, because there aren't enough hours in a day left from that schedule to work for a living. Or is this just blatant exaggeration for the sake of effect? Another "Hyper" word - hyperbole. You do excel at that!

I know how hard I studied and worked when I was in Seminary, plus my personal devotions and prayer life. I personally don't think anyone can study the Bible 8 hours a day for 4 years, listen to 100's of Internet teachers, and spend what? 10-12 hours a day on CC. Nope, the numbers are just not adding up for me. And I do hope a few people who have been netted into the heresy will also just think on the numbers given here. Because if they do not add up, they are either an outright lie, or maybe delusion. I would hope delusion, just like the delusion of JP's hypergrace, because lying is a blatant sin, instead of a sin of ignorance.

Malice, not at all! But willing to stand up and defend the true gospel against those you have sucked into your hypergrace gospel, along with all your "grace" friends who jumped in to aide and abet you, when you didn't get this forum on a leash quickly enough. Call them the "already convinced" hypergrace crowd. All conjecture, of course. Just odd when so many people notice the same thing, don't you think?

Don't pretend to be "hurt" and like you are friends with everyone, only here to glorify God, when in fact, you came in here from post #1 with the express purpose of making converts to your false gospel. A gospel which twists words in the Bible, twists the words in posts, and tries to make others like me seem full of "malice" when God has called me to stand against the harmful lies you have been preaching. Even today, I had to counsel people to not be hurt by the attacks they got, when they wandered into this hypergrace nightmare for the first time.

Let's see, what did one person say? Oh right? It just doesn't make sense! And then the "double talk." (Shades of 1984 - no wait, that is doublespeak! But that works for me, too.) Absolutely, I told these people. God is not mocked. The basic principles of hypergrace are clearly laid out on the Internet, by both those in the movement and those who oppose it. So I am not telling anyone something that is not available everywhere. But I will stand against those who are actively proselytizing this heresy of hypergrace, trying to make converts, just as I would do if JW or Morman or even a Muslim came in here with their false doctrines, and carried on a campaign for 8 months to try and change the BDF into the "HGF"

You are being awful and arrogant with our brother but I know you can't see it. You are also being petty about many things, but arrogance does do that. I wish you would stop but I know you can't see the harm you do to us. So I thank God for you and continue to pray. Grace and peace to you sister.

 

[Grace777x70]

So people think I am maligning you and I should be reported? For calling out your lifestyle? I think it would be great if you studied the Bible 8 hours a day. But there are only 24 hours in a day. Take 8 hours out for sleep, another 2 for meals, or maybe less if you get the meal prepared for you and eat it fast. But for arguments sake, let's say, 10 hours just to feed and restore the physical body.

So that leaves 14 hours left in the day. Minus the 8 hours a day studying the Bible, and now you have 6 hours left. How many hours a day to listen to those "hundreds of Internet preachers?" I don't know. I certainly don't have time in my life to listen to preachers on-line. I won't even listen to 2 minute sermons or 4 minute songs on YouTube or FB. But, again, pick a number of 1 hour a day? Because that would get you three 3 sermons per "100's" of Internet preachers, rounding the extra 64 days for maybe 4 sermons for his favourite preachers per year, and some single or double sermons by some of the lesser hundreds.

So now we are down to 5 hours left in the day. I would hope you go to church, maybe the occasional walk, shop for groceries, do laundry, etc. So take off another hour a day, leaving us with 4 hours a day on CC. Now assuming
Grace777 never goes out of the house, spends that extra 4 hours online, is it possible to even physically post 10,000 plus posts in 8 months, with only 4 short hours a day? Of course, a lot of those posts were copy and pastes, and the same scriptures over and over. But still, it does take a bit of thought to post, if you really want it to mean something? Or maybe that is just me?

So assuming Bruce has been here 8 months or 240 days, posting 4 hours a day, with 10,418 posts so far, if you add and multiply and divide that up (I know, show your work! 240 days X 4 hours per day = 960 hours. 10418 posts, which is the current running total posts, divided by 960 hours, = approximately 10.85 posts per day! Every day 7 days a week for 8 months.) That's hard work! That's a full time job! Even if so much of it is just regurgitating the same false doctrine and twisting the words of the Bible and people.

Oh, here is a perfect example of words being twisted - mine and his own.

Grace777 in post #119 page 6, which I quoted above:
"In this last bout of studying I have averaged 8 hours a day for the last 4 years. I just say that so that you can now perhaps start speaking with some more understanding."

This clearly says he "averaged" 8 hours a day for the last 4 years of Bible study. That means some days even more, and obviously a few other days, less.

Me in post #122 page 7

"Oh sorry, you read the Bible for what was it, 8 hours a day?" (I am just struggling to express the physical parameters, not criticizing for studying that much! Or even being online constantly, which is his privilege!)

Ok, then we come to Grace777's post #123 on page 7

"You can say what you want but I spoke the truth about how much I have studied - doing it in different forms as I didn't say I read the bible itself for 8 hours. I study - which mean different methods....including meditating and looking at the greek...to listening to who I feel the Lord wants me to listen to at the time."
Hmmm. One minute he is averaging studying 8 hours a day, and then in the rest of this paragraph, he outlines his methods as if that makes it clear he didn't mean what he said earlier. Except I have no problem with his study methods, if that is what he did. I applaud such dedication to the Word of God.

What I do not applaud is people who exaggerate. You simply cannot study the Word of God, whatever method - reading, meditating, praying, studying the Greek, word studies, even commetaries, which is a slight step away, but still a valid method of study, for 8 hours a day, and post on CC for hours and hours, and eat, sleep and live a bit, listen to "100's" of Internet preachers and their long sermons and have time to do it all. It is a physical impossibility. Oh wait, is he saying that listening to Internet preachers is part of his studies? Ok, maybe he is right about me, that is something I cannot abide, and it does not constitute proper Bible study, although of course, you are free to study however you want, don't try to get me to accept that is a valid method of study.

I would never condemn anyone's lifestyle that is dedicated to studying the word of God. What I condemn is the obvious exaggeration in Bruce's posts, as to how much time he spends studying, especially when he is on CC all the time.

I had to cut my internet time, not just CC, but my support groups I run, my support groups I go to to receive help and advice for my physical illnesses. Because after studying the Bible and Greek for maybe, and hour and a half daily, trying to keep a house clean, sleeping, playing flute about 50 minutes a day, (my church ministry along with preaching!) and work in the garden, there was simply not a spare minute left in my day. And my internet time is the morning, when I cannot move well, I read the news, and as my drugs start to work, I move to posting here and on FB. But, the Internet is simply not my priority these days, although I have come into this thread to stand against the word twisting, the exaggerations and the lies of hypergrace, particularly when I see others being seduced by a false gospel, as I was.

So please accept my apologies if you thought, along with others, I was condemning your methods of Bible study's it's the exception of listening to Internet preachers, if that was indeed part of that time. But I am questioning the actual hours spent, especially in light of life and the amount of time spent posting here at CC. Being a math brain can be a burden sometimes!

I've spent too much time online, but I am going to be coming back, I hope and continuing to confront this hypergrace gospel, which is not biblical Christianity. And sorry about the formatting, I hate it when the fonts/size and other things like boldness are locked. Nothing to do with anyone, just something I am trying to work through, when it may not be possible to teach my IPad new tricks.

Ok..once more I will answer you Angela,

I am still waiting for your "gossiping source" that has produced this slander about being told about teaching websites about the grace of our Lord. Here it is again - so please answer me. Let the accusers be identified so we can identify the source.

Quote:

Who told you this malicious gossip that I was told to stop as the purpose of this rumor was obviously to malign me? This might answer a lot of things. Who behind the scenes was giving you this gossip? Please tell us who told you this "rumor".

Please be honest and answer the green above so that we can see were this "rumor" came from as it will answer a lot of what is happening here.

Unquote:

If you need to know every detail of my life to stop your malice - then I will share some things with you. I usually sleep about 6 hours per day. I live by myself so I eat mostly by myself and it does not take 2 hours to eat.

My situation lends me in the last 4 years to be able to have the time to devote to studying the word in it's many forms including listening to others preach the word. Remember we get faith by "hearing" the message of Jesus.

When I do post on CC...I am doing other things at the same time so I am not constantly looking at threads but just answer as it comes up.

It is true that some days I have done less then 8 hours but to be truthful there are many days I have done over 16 hours in my different forms of studying. I recognize them as forms of studying = whether others do or don't do is irrelevant to me.

And just to keep things honest here - I said I have listened to over a 100 different teachers from different denominations in my past and in studying - not "100's" as you are now clearly "adding" unto my words in order to "exaggerate" the truth. Most of the sermons are about 30-45 minutes long. I count "hearing the word of Christ" as a part of studying and positioning myself to receive what the Holy Spirit has for me at the time.


And to address your slander that the gospel of the grace of Christ that many here preach are lies. - In your view repentance is "fasting, mourning and weeping and it takes a lot of misery" - to others they change their mind ( metanoia ) and the way they were previously thinking to align themselves with how they view God and what He has already done for us and yes..that includes sinning.

Some people believe when Peter and Paul preached the gospel in Act 10, 13 and said that "Everyone who believes on His name receives the forgiveness of sins" - as well as all of Paul's writing as he was commissioned by the Lord Himself to explain His gospel - we believe this truth and thank God every day for the sacrifice of His Son - our Lord Jesus Christ.

And we do confess sins despite the "twisting" of what others say that grace believers do not confess sin.

All of these things have been well documented with scripture and if they "conflict" with what you believe - then so be it. You are entitled to your opinions just like everyone else in the body of Christ.

You are allowed to have a different opinion then other people but to slander and malign them for doing so is not consistent with the character of our Lord that is in us that are in Christ.

If these things are all lies to you - then so be it. You can continue to malign people that see some things differently then you do if you want but as I have admonished you now a few times - you are getting into a Hebrews 12:15 situation and I do not want to see that happen to anyone.

I love the gospel of the grace of Christ and I have no problem to say that I am not ashamed of the gospel and the great salvation our Lord Jesus Christ has wrought for and in us that believe and trust our whole lives to Him.

I hold nothing against you Angela but to love you and I continue to lift your name before the Father and speak words of blessing and life to you and those you love. Bless you.....

 

[FreeNChrist]

Just to clarify the situation we are dealing with here on CC.

It is not simply a discussion of OSAS-Eternal Security (the majority) vs. Perfectionism-Legalism (just a few).

There is at least one other group. They believe we are saved by grace, kept by this umbrella of grace, and that works is merely a product-fruit of living by faith. The only difference between the OSAS and the third group is that the third group believes that the Bible teaches that it is theoretically possible to willfully step out from under the keeping umbrella. This stepping away has nothing to do with ceasing to do good works. It has everything to do with starting to cultivate a spirit of rebellion against God.

Can you see the difference between the Perfectionist-Legalist and this third group, or can you not?

I do not see a difference. If you think you can "step out" you think your salvation is in your own hands, and not firmly in the grasp of God's hands.

 

[God4me]

I do not see a difference. If you think you can "step out" you think your salvation is in your own hands, and not firmly in the grasp of God's hands.

Salvation is in the hands of people, as God as done all He's going to do about salvation, He sent Jesus.
Now it's up to people to receive and keep salvation.

 

[LaurenTM]

You are being awful and arrogant with our brother but I know you can't see it. You are also being petty about many things, but arrogance does do that. I wish you would stop but I know you can't see the harm you do to us. So I thank God for you and continue to pray. Grace and peace to you sister.

really?

you think she doesn't know?

 

[FreeNChrist]

Salvation is in the hands of people, as God as done all He's going to do about salvation, He sent Jesus.
Now it's up to people to receive and keep salvation.

"Now all glory to God, who is able to keep you from falling away and will bring you with great joy into His glorious presence without a single fault. All glory to Him who alone is God, our Savior through Jesus Christ our Lord. All glory, majesty, power, and authority are His before all time, and in the present, and beyond all time! Amen." Jude 24-25

Amen?

 

[LaurenTM]

so, rumor is the source of some people's accusations

guess they missed the part where we are told to cast down imaginations etc

stand by for further revelations

oh I have a real hot one! just off the press!

my husband just bought me a new lens...wide angle..for my dslr

been wanting that for awhile!

also been really wanting to tell everyone, cause I'm blessed!

 

[LaurenTM]

"Now all glory to God, who is able to keep you from falling away and will bring you with great joy into His glorious presence without a single fault. All glory to Him who alone is God, our Savior through Jesus Christ our Lord. All glory, majesty, power, and authority are His before all time, and in the present, and beyond all time! Amen." Jude 24-25

Amen?

and you are also blessed if God has revealed these things to you!!

I mean if folks cannot get the basics down, they are missing their foundation

and that little kiddie dittie...about the wise man building his house on the rock and the foolish man building his house on sand

I used to like that one and doing the actions with it as a kid...

 

[LaurenTM]

well, I had a scrambled egg white omelette with one piece of whole wheat toast...hold the butter...1 plum and 2 cups of coffee for breakfast

fed the dogs...put them in and out twice and they are napping again

now, I am going to go work out for an hour or so...shower up and then do some cleaning 'n stuff and also study and pray

I thanked God for keeping us all through the night and (gasp!!!) watched Joyce Meyer...even did a little laundry

and I came on here, read some stuff and shook my head at it...

might have to put on another coat of nail polish...hate it when its chipped

sorry...can't think of anything else right now Angela, but I'll get back to you ...oh and for lunch today? a fruit smoothie!

will decide later if it will be strawberry, raspberry or blueberry...so many choices

 

[FreeNChrist]

well, I had a scrambled egg white omelette with one piece of whole wheat toast...hold the butter...1 plum and 2 cups of coffee for breakfast

fed the dogs...put them in and out twice and they are napping again

now, I am going to go work out for an hour or so...shower up and then do some cleaning 'n stuff and also study and pray

I thanked God for keeping us all through the night and (gasp!!!) watched Joyce Meyer...even did a little laundry

and I came on here, read some stuff and shook my head at it...

might have to put on another coat of nail polish...hate it when its chipped

sorry...can't think of anything else right now Angela, but I'll get back to you ...oh and for lunch today? a fruit smoothie!

will decide later if it will be strawberry, raspberry or blueberry...so many choices

Choices. That's interesting because I was just thinking about choices. About how grace scares so many because it says they are free. Which leaves them with a choice.

There is a story told from Civil War days before America’s slaves were freed, about a northerner who went to a slave auction and purchased a young slave girl. As they walked away from the auction, the man turned to the girl and told her, “You’re free.”
With amazement she responded, “You mean, I’m free to do whatever I want?”
“Yes,” he said.
“And to say whatever I want to say?”
“Yes, anything.”
“And to be whatever I want to be?”
“Yep.”
“And even go wherever I want to go?”
“Yes,” he answered with a smile. “You’re free to go wherever you’d like.”
She looked at him intently and replied, “Then I will go with you.”

And that is the response that God desires from man. And it is a response that even He cannot force out of us. God loves us but He cannot force us to love Him back. That’s what it's like under grace, you’re free, now, what will you do with your freedom??

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

really?

you think she doesn't know?

She has great love for God and deals with many hurts and betrayals as we all do.
So no, I think she does not know she does it.
It is not intentional.
Paul himself KILLED those who preached the gospel of Gods' grace and he did it in ignorance. He thought he was fighting them for God. But he was fighting for doctrines and traditions but did not know this and thought he was fighting for truth.

If she knew, she would stop doing it. So no, she doesn't know.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

And we know that God guides our EVERY step and puts us in our EVERY circumstance. So He has brought Angela here to us. So of course we should thank Him for her. He knows exactly what He is doing if we will just trust Him.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Salvation is in the hands of people, as God as done all He's going to do about salvation, He sent Jesus.
Now it's up to people to receive and keep salvation.

God help us all if salvation is in the hands of people rather than in Our Lord.