Jesus, all the Grace we need

[followjesus]

The truest and most complete image of Gods grace is the suffering, beating, mocking and execution by crucifixion of Jesus Christ. we ( mankind) were already dead Lost without hope, corrupt by nature, made into objects of Gods wrath, by a deception that our parents fell into, all had sinned, all were bound over to death. Grace in its fullest extent is God the Father, willing His Son to the cross at calvary. if you really want to understand Grace and obedience to Jesus. look no further than Jesus who suffered, for you personally. you did not earn this, your actions deserved death according to Gods word His perfect Law. that whipping He took? was meant for you. the beatings he took? those were meant for you. those people spitting on Him? that was your place. those nails that were driven through His hands and His feet? those were meant to nail you to that cross, this according to Gods law.


Grace. " Here am I , send me". Grace is seeing Jesus in the garden agonizing Just before His arrest, He knew what was coming, he repeated it 3 times , Grace is " Father if it is possible let this cup pass from me, but let not my will be done, but your will" this is Grace Jesus the man, took your place. not because of anything you did or could do, but because He is the declaration of Gods amazing Grace for mankind. the thing every Christian should by themselves take time in prayer in a quiet room reflecting on this. Jesus did this for me, he offered me everlasting Life when I was dead, justly according to God who is Justice, Gods Love expressed in an image of His son dying in your place Jesus did everythoing to bring us home. can I in good conscience, now follow a teaching that opposes what Jesus who did this for me, says?


Jesus doctrine is plain and straight forward, hours before His arrest when His suffering would begin is john chapters 14-17. in these chapters Jesus stresses " if you love me keep my commands" those who love me will jkeep my commands" the one who has my commands and keeps them, He is the one who loves me".....His commands are how to Love others, Gods way. he stresses my command is this Love one another, this is my commands that you should Love one another as I have Loved you" obey my commands and you are my friends, obey my teachings and you will remain in me, just like I obeyed my Father and remained in Him. Jesus commands are the new covenant and they are the Love of Christ.

Notice His commands , just like Gods, mostly concern How we treat other humans? His commands are to Love one another.

The question really is all that Jesus has done for me, how do I take His words now? will I let some strange doctrine which the church is warned to watch out for, pull me from His gospel? or do I love Jesus like He says ? Like God says ? The words in the 4 gospels are Life to those who put Faith in Jesus Christ. I'm sorry people view me as a "legalist" or a "works of the law" person. I do not believe that a person is supposed to obey the mosaic law after they accept Chirst, but if we are in obedience to Jesus teachings, the law is already kept. Obeying the commands of Jesus circumsizes the nature of sin, by removing Lust from the heart, greed from the heart, anger from the heart ect....those commands are our new life, our resurrection to children of God, because we are imitating His Childs way of Life. it isn't an option, but the WAY to eternal life. The Gospel is simply to follow Jesus with all of your heart and Grace is well able to keep you in that even when you stumble, forgiveness is there for the repentant, you get up, step right back in line and continue pressing forward in obedience.

it isn't law, its Jesus.

what is the real argument against what Jesus said? that paul somehow taught not to follow Jesus because its works? no. there is no correct doctrine that omits the words of the savior, King, son of God, teacher, Lord, the truth, the Life, the bread from heaven, the living water, the good shepherd, the high preist. His doctrine is fully approved By God, He is the one who died and suffered for each one, His words cannot ever be made irrelevant for salvation, they are the only salvation man has available.


all glory, honor, power, majesty and praise belong to Our Great God and to His Son who is our Life

 

[Kosie]

Grace as the forgiving of sin by God is only the START of God's Grace. God's grace goes WAY beyond the cross. God says, with the POWER He used to resurrect Jesus, with this POWER he awaken the NEW Man in every person He saves. I think the crown of God's Grace is not the dying on the cross part, but the NEW HOLY MAN RESURRECTED in the OLD SINNER, part.

God says He will NEVER even think of the sin, but the NEW MAN IN CHRIST will LIVE WITH HIM FOREVER! That is GRACE Almighty, and yet if I have to boast, I will boast in the cross of my Lord Jesus. If He did not cleanse me, I CANNOT inherit the Holiness of the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost.

The KEEPETH my commandments come with the Holy Ghost. The SEED that remaineth in a Holy man is the Holy Ghost. He will ALWAYS keep God's commandments. He is the NEW MAN that cannot sinneth. (1 John3:9) The obedience to DIE off the old man is the FATHER drawing us to the Lord Jesus. Even before the earth was formed the Father wrote the names of the HOLY CHILDREN of GOD in teh book of life. His will, will be done in them as it is done in heaven.

May the Father lead/draw and drive us all the way into his sheep-fold. Amen!

 

[followjesus]

Grace as the forgiving of sin by God is only the START of God's Grace. God's grace goes WAY beyond the cross. God says, with the POWER He used to resurrect Jesus, with this POWER he awaken the NEW Man in every person He saves. I think the crown of God's Grace is not the dying on the cross part, but the NEW HOLY MAN RESURRECTED in the OLD SINNER, part.

God says He will NEVER even think of the sin, but the NEW MAN IN CHRIST will LIVE WITH HIM FOREVER! That is GRACE Almighty, and yet if I have to boast, I will boast in the cross of my Lord Jesus. If He did not cleanse me, I CANNOT inherit the Holiness of the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost.

The KEEPETH my commandments come with the Holy Ghost. The SEED that remaineth in a Holy man is the Holy Ghost. He will ALWAYS keep God's commandments. He is the NEW MAN that cannot sinneth. (1 John3:9) The obedience to DIE off the old man is the FATHER drawing us to the Lord Jesus. Even before the earth was formed the Father wrote the names of the HOLY CHILDREN of GOD in teh book of life. His will, will be done in them as it is done in heaven.

May the Father lead/draw and drive us all the way into his sheep-fold. Amen!

amen to most of the idea of this good stuff, the only thing I would differ on is the new man who is Loving God and also His fellow man as taught by Jesus Christ, to obey, really is to love others. we forgive, are gracious to, help those in need, we lend to those who ask to borrow, we turn the other cheek, we bless those who are against us, we pray for our enemies, we bless them. you are right amen that the new man is the crown and glory of the Promise, to me I see Grace in the majestic Son of God giving His worthy life, in exchange for my unworthy one, I derserved death for sure I was a pro sinner, therefore, a dead man. all the sudden, here comes the coolest man to ever walk the earth. " I am gonna die, and give you the eternal life mankind lost in eden

not because you are doing anything right, but just because I love you this much, that I will place my dearest One on the criminals cross that you deserve according to the law of sin and death. or " if you sin, you die" or the mosaic covenant. also I see great grace that Jesus changed "don't do this or die" into " do these things and live forever together with God, Me and all those who accept me as Lord of their lives. there is so much difference in " if you do this, you will die" and " " you are forgiven, now learn and keep my commandments, grace is a new life, rather than inheriting death through adam, we have the choice now to inherit Life through Christ. He teaches us how to live so that we can stand in Hos strength by trusting Him enough to follow His word, or have faith in His word. if we truly believe Jesus, we will find out what He is saying and do it.


there is grace in the Kingdom though there is " forgive and you will be forgiven" that would not exist, if believers cant sin, followers of Christ can still sin, and will until repentance is accepted, the prodigal repented and left His life of sin, then he made the journey back to the Father, the path is laid out by Christ, the son of God who IS the only way, in the 4 gospels. and they are full of grace in many forms, as you so eloquently say, its crown is the new man that has a new nature, that naturally turns against his sin, and becomes a slave to righteousness. there is the obedience of Grace, He teaches us to be grace to others. pauls grace is meant to bring us to Jesus, Jesus saves, He alone is Savior, He alone has saving Grace.

 

[followjesus]

Grace as the forgiving of sin by God is only the START of God's Grace. God's grace goes WAY beyond the cross. God says, with the POWER He used to resurrect Jesus, with this POWER he awaken the NEW Man in every person He saves. I think the crown of God's Grace is not the dying on the cross part, but the NEW HOLY MAN RESURRECTED in the OLD SINNER, part.

God says He will NEVER even think of the sin, but the NEW MAN IN CHRIST will LIVE WITH HIM FOREVER! That is GRACE Almighty, and yet if I have to boast, I will boast in the cross of my Lord Jesus. If He did not cleanse me, I CANNOT inherit the Holiness of the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost.

The KEEPETH my commandments come with the Holy Ghost. The SEED that remaineth in a Holy man is the Holy Ghost. He will ALWAYS keep God's commandments. He is the NEW MAN that cannot sinneth. (1 John3:9) The obedience to DIE off the old man is the FATHER drawing us to the Lord Jesus. Even before the earth was formed the Father wrote the names of the HOLY CHILDREN of GOD in teh book of life. His will, will be done in them as it is done in heaven.

May the Father lead/draw and drive us all the way into his sheep-fold. Amen!

I ramble on a lot man I'm sorry, its just me.....

 

[FreeNChrist]

But there was something new about Jesus command, did you catch it??

 

[p_rehbein]

Have not read the entire OP yet Brother, nor all of the comments. Will do that later I hope. However, I would like to correct the Title of the Thread if you don't mind.

JESUS, ALL WE NEED

(there, that's better)

 

[followjesus]

But there was something new about Jesus command, did you catch it??

his commands are Love, how to Love His way. my command is this, that you Love one another as I have Loved you, greater Love has no one than this, that He Lay down His life for His friends. or in other words "we lay down self, pick up our cross and follow His ways of Life. yeah Love one another, but His commands are how to Love as He Loved. hats my exact and whole point, we cant Love as hhe taught us, without following His commands.

 

[followjesus]

Have not read the entire OP yet Brother, nor all of the comments. Will do that later I hope. However, I would like to correct the Title of the Thread if you don't mind.

JESUS, ALL WE NEED

(there, that's better)

the law came through moses, Grace, and truth through Jesus.

 

[FreeNChrist]

his commands are Love, how to Love His way. my command is this, that you Love one another as I have Loved you, greater Love has no one than this, that He Lay down His life for His friends. or in other words "we lay down self, pick up our cross and follow His ways of Life. yeah Love one another, but His commands are how to Love as He Loved. hats my exact and whole point, we cant Love as hhe taught us, without following His commands.

We love because He first loved us. Is He not still loving us?

We can't love without Him shedding His love abroad in our hearts. It is His love for us that begets love from us.

 

[followjesus]

We love because He first loved us. Is He not still loving us?

We can't love without Him shedding His love abroad in our hearts. It is His love for us that begets love from us.

I agree we Lobve because He Loved us, in fact, Jesus is the expression OF Gods Love for us. that's all the more reson to obey him...why? because He who Loves us, commands it. the one who gave up his life, suffered so much for you, also said " if you love me, keep my commands, and my Father will Love you, and we will come and make our home with you."

it doesn't read this way. " he who doesn't obey my teaching, I don't Love" no that's not whats there. if we do not obey, it says WE do not Love Jesus. God Loves us, the very worst of sinners is Loved deeply by God. so How did God show the world? He placed His son on a cross because all mankind was dead no hope of eternal life. Jesus took that death upon Himself because of Love. its so amazing How he Loves us amen. but if we Love Him, if Hes our Lord, why do we ignore His own words that are clearly telling us " obey my commands" " go teach all nations to obey my commands"......


Jesus said this, I'm not making it up ya know, its in your bible also. if someone gave their life to save yours, would you then Honor the reason they died for you? we obey because he gave his life for ours. that's how he first Loved us, we love Him the same way, we give our lives to Him in response to His great Love. that's how we complete or perfect the Love and cast out fear. He already gave Love he does it every day in many ways he loves us there is no doubt. do we Love Jesus because of all we say we believe is the question. if I believe in Him, his words are going to be absolute truth. are they meant for everyone? yes. " all authority on earth and in heaven was given to me, go forth into all nations and TEACH them to OBEY EVERYTHING I have COMMANDED you"

because we obey commands doesn't mean weve fallen from grace, it means were growing in grace, and it is not effortless or without condition the gospel is a way of life

 

[FreeNChrist]

His commandment IS to love. God IS Love. Which is why it takes Christ in us to be who God created us to be.

 

[followjesus]

His commandment IS to love. God IS Love. Which is why it takes Christ in us to be who God created us to be.

umm yeah I agree gotta have Christ. His commands are Love. that's why he keeps saying obey my commands, my command is this Love each other. your right. but we Love Jesus way, that's what hes teaching. how to Love in righteousness, self lessly. you can continue to cling to the ommital of His word, but the betterway is to see what He himself who you love is telling you to actually do and listen to Him. He knows more than you , paul, jp or anyone else. id take Jesus word for things since hes everything you need, does he not have your answers? if He does, then maybe forget the doctrine and see what He teaches.

 

[Grace777x70]

1 John 4:17-19 (NASB)

[SUP]17 [/SUP] By this, love is perfected with us, so that we may have confidence in the day of judgment; because as He is, so also are we in this world.

(we are exactly like Jesus nowin this world in our new creation in Christ - new inner man created in righteousness and holiness )

[SUP]18 [/SUP] There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves punishment, and the one who fears is not perfected in love.

( there is no punishment for us that are in Christ because Jesus took our place on Calvary - knowing this needs to be foundational to grow up in Christ )

[SUP]19 [/SUP] We love, because He first loved us.

( we have this love in our hearts now that we are in Christ . The Holy Spirit poured the love of God into our hearts - it's a fruit of the Spirit within us - not something we produce on our own )

 

[followjesus]

His commandment IS to love. God IS Love. Which is why it takes Christ in us to be who God created us to be.

what does Jesus say about Him being in us?

johgn 14:15-21 “If you love me, keep my commands. And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be[SUP]c[/SUP] in you. I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live. On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you. Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them.”



if you don't realize, Jesus is the one saying this, not me. you are trying to separate His commands from Him Living in you if you accept Jesus, you cant then omit all of what He says about things. His word is also part of Jesus, He is the WORD of God, his words are spirit and they are life, his words will never pass away.

Like God in the ot, His word is not to be omitted or altered or passed over or made second fiddle. Jesus did all this for us, the same Jesus told us everything God told Him to say " all I have said is Just what the father has told me to say." " everything I learned from my father, I have made known to you." " this is my son, listen to Him" " all authority on heaven and earth has been given to me, go make disciples of all nations baptizing them in the name of the father, son and holy spirit teach them to obey everything I have commanded you and I will be with you toi the end of the age."


omittal of Jesus words, taking authority from Jesus words, denying His words is not the gospel. accepting His death, includes His commands

 

[FreeNChrist]

what does Jesus say about Him being in us?

johgn 14:15-21 “If you love me, keep my commands. And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be[SUP]c[/SUP] in you. I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live. On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you. Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them.”



if you don't realize, Jesus is the one saying this, not me. you are trying to separate His commands from Him Living in you if you accept Jesus, you cant then omit all of what He says about things. His word is also part of Jesus, He is the WORD of God, his words are spirit and they are life, his words will never pass away.

Like God in the ot, His word is not to be omitted or altered or passed over or made second fiddle. Jesus did all this for us, the same Jesus told us everything God told Him to say " all I have said is Just what the father has told me to say." " everything I learned from my father, I have made known to you." " this is my son, listen to Him" " all authority on heaven and earth has been given to me, go make disciples of all nations baptizing them in the name of the father, son and holy spirit teach them to obey everything I have commanded you and I will be with you toi the end of the age."


omittal of Jesus words, taking authority from Jesus words, denying His words is not the gospel. accepting His death, includes His commands

LOL. No, I'm not the one saying Jesus and His commands cannot be separated. It's you who are separating Jesus from His commands.

 

[followjesus]

1 John 4:17-19 (NASB)

[SUP]17 [/SUP] By this, love is perfected with us, so that we may have confidence in the day of judgment; because as He is, so also are we in this world.

(we are exactly like Jesus nowin this world in our new creation in Christ - new inner man created in righteousness and holiness )

[SUP]18 [/SUP] There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves punishment, and the one who fears is not perfected in love.

( there is no punishment for us that are in Christ because Jesus took our place on Calvary - knowing this needs to be foundational to grow up in Christ )

[SUP]19 [/SUP] We love, because He first loved us.

( we have this love in our hearts now that we are in Christ . The Holy Spirit poured the love of God into our hearts - it's a fruit of the Spirit within us - not something we produce on our own )

bruce your doctrine tells you that you now are exactly like Jesus in the world? already you are perfected and no matter what you can do no wrong in Gods eyes then? you are exactly like Jesus?

 

[followjesus]

bruce your doctrine tells you that you now are exactly like Jesus in the world? already you are perfected and no matter what you can do no wrong in Gods eyes then? you are exactly like Jesus?

if you are exactly like Jesus now, why do all of His words not apply to you if you are just like Jesus? why do you omit any command He gave? if your the exact same, why do you avoid the gospel?

 

[followjesus]

LOL. No, I'm not the one saying Jesus and His commands cannot be separated. It's you who are separating Jesus from His commands.

I'm saying His commands are how to Love, His command is to Love. how to Love by following His commands. you guys just always do the exact same thing. you go in circles and in the end, you believe grace, your faith is in the worlds grace that says " obedience to God is works and somehow not what a person should be focused on. if you have not separated His commands from His Love, why does it offend you that His commands place conditions on the believer? why is it offensive to grace somehow to quote one of the many verses like this one

"if you forgive others your heavenly father will forgive you your sins, if you do not forgive your brother, your heavenly father will not forgive you your sins" how and where is the justification for omitting the many if you do this, and if you do not that Jesus teaches? because it does not fit with the gog, there is a higher responsibility now to the believer to live right, speak rightm think right, believe right. we no longer have the excuses that paul showed us we no longer have.

we cant say " I'm just a sinner unable to follow Gods commandments, I'm new inside, clean, boirn again, now I must put to death the old man through the gospel. not only saying I'm new, but following the new way. it should not offend a new creation when they hear Jesus saying if you do this, but if you do not. you think somehow that nullifies Grace. it is infact Grace that makes us live for obedience to Jesus. Jesus teaches us how to Live. there are warnings about hearing him and not obeying him.

" he who comes to me and hears my word and doesn't put them into practice, is like a foolish builder, who built their house on sand with no foundation, when the torrents rose and the rain and winds came, that mans house fell with a great crash and its destruction was complete.

complete destruction or

" why do you call me lord lord and do not do what I say?" or " it is not those who call nme lord lord who will be saved, only those who do the will of God"

these conditions and principles are what He taught. forgive and you will be forgiven, do not forgive, and you will not be forgiven. do you believe Jesus knows what Gods will is? do you believe He was speaking Gods will to us? if all authority on earth and in heaven was given to him, why are his words no longer authoritative to those who call Him Lord?

you guys just go in circles acknowledge nothing that isn't taught in somw invented gospel where no one is required to obey Gods commands. just believe just say finished work, just shout grace grace. problem is, Jesus taught the truth, and the truth will never change because of false teachings that we are forewarned were coming. especially the distorted Grace that removes accountability and makes grace God. it is not God, it is an attribute of Gods holy character. God is much more than grace, Justice, righteousness, truth, holiness,......wrath against evil.

saying grace is all there is, omits who God is and " jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever." he will never change, if he says obey me then, hes saying obey me now, if he said forgive or you will not be forgiven, hes still saying the same thing, that's why God had it written down so we know who Jesus is and what He taught.


you cant separate Love from Jesus teachings. if you say I love my brother, you are then saying I obey Jesus. if your saying the same thing good deal, why does it offend you when you hear " If you love me, you will obey my commands" " the one who has my commands and keeps them, He is the one who loves me my father will love him amd we will come and make our home with him."?

" in fact this is love for God, that we walk in obedience to His commands and they are not a burden."

obedience to God is Love for God, so says Gods word

 

[FreeNChrist]

Well, I follow Christ, and remarkably those commands you say you are so concerned with just seem to get taken care of. And that with me giving them no thought at all. Funny how that works.

 

[followjesus]

Well, I follow Christ, and remarkably those commands you say you are so concerned with just seem to get taken care of. And that with me giving them no thought at all. Funny how that works.

how do you follow Christ, if you make his commands not important though>? He himself makes them important and equates them with loving him? how do you follow Jesus and not concern yourself with His teachings that He said " do this, if you don't, this other thing will happen? you ARE separating Jesus from what He said, not me, your not jiving with His words, it isn't me you have issue with, its the teachings of your King, His commands somehow offend you, and because I see Him saying " these are commands, follow them" I'm somehow wrong here. Jesus clearly says what he says. His words are not only for the jews. but for all nations to learn and obey. why opr how do you say that's not the way when Jesus taught it clearly?