So what about the fourth commandment?

[jamesg1951]

The Sabbath law was made to give people a day to show respect to god the Spirit of Truth and Righteousness. A day to think about the preceding week and if your actions were True and Right A day to say Our Father who art in heaven hallowed be thy name, and to give thanks and appreciate what God has given us. A day to think about and plan your actions for the following week that will make Thy Kingdom come and Thy will be done on earth.

It would be far to easy to forget about Gods will for our lives if we did not deliberately take the time to remember Him.

 

[disciplemike]

I think you aren't understanding how some see it...I believe I understand how you are seeing it but that you aren't completely understanding how others see it. Or just me, for that matter. I'll just talk about how I see it.

We know that the law is spirit because God is Spirit.
And we know that it is the spirit that avails a man, not the letter.

And we know why this is - because a man can keep the letter easily enough. It's pretty clear - what not to eat or wear, how to prepare foods, when to eat and not eat, etc. But it is quite possible to keep the letter and for God to be very displeased with you because we know the outside of the cup can be clean and shiny looking while inside is filth.

Following the law covers the outside. You could be obeying the law outwardly by never murdering a man while inside you break it all the time with angers and resentments. And you could THINK you are obeying that law when all the while you are disobeying it.

Jesus says, if the inside of the cup is clean, the outside just will be as well. But the reverse is not necessarily true.
So I take this to heart. I believe and agree with what He tells me about the law, in spirit and truth. And so I confess my murders and rely on His Spirit to change this in me. The world would have me believe I am not a murderer, but I believe Jesus instead of the world. When He says that it is what comes from inside me that defiles me, I believe Him. I see it is true.

I, like David, want to understand the law in spirit because it is the spirit that avails me, not the letter.

A man cannot murder outwardly unless he has already done so inwardly. But the reverse is not true. He can keep from murdering outwardly but be murdering away in his heart. This is why the Holy Spirit always gets me to see the spirit, so I will not be deceived that I am obeying when I'm not, and also because He knows if I don't murder inwardly, then the outside won't either.

So I don't know if that helps you to understand me better as to why He leads me to inward obedience, but He is very wise and knows what He is doing in how He leads and teaches me!

The inward obedience, through love and gratitude, is the best kind. That is about the only way a person could ever hope to obey. However, what most people miss is this - If I am (truly) being led by the Spirit, my outward actions will reveal my inward obedience. "Thou shalt love thy neighbor" > "Thou shalt not murder". We know this. But if a person is truly following the Spirit, the letter is no problem. Many, many, many people claim to be led by the Spirit, but it just doesn't manifest in their walk. "Many people will say to me, Lord, Lord".... "Depart from me, you workers of lawlessness".

 

[disciplemike]

I never said not to obey the 4th commandment, I just said that we are not beholden to some strict law on what the "sabbath" HAS to look like. It SHOULD be a gathering of two or more, it should be about worshiping Jesus, and trying to gain sustenance for our faith and learn the word. Anything beyond that seems like a personal preference to me. I don't see anything in scripture contradicting this. I think Jesus himself encouraged something other than the traditional "services" provided by the pharisees which is what the modern institution of "service" looks like to me.

Please tell me what you think the Sabbath has to look like then? And where the scripture says this.

The first step would be this, to get it on the right day. It is the 7th day Sabbath. It is an appointed time of God, to meet with us. It is very valuable. The enemy knows this.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

The inward obedience, through love and gratitude, is the best kind. That is about the only way a person could ever hope to obey. However, what most people miss is this - If I am (truly) being led by the Spirit, my outward actions will reveal my inward obedience. "Thou shalt love thy neighbor" > "Thou shalt not murder". We know this. But if a person is truly following the Spirit, the letter is no problem. Many, many, many people claim to be led by the Spirit, but it just doesn't manifest in their walk. "Many people will say to me, Lord, Lord".... "Depart from me, you workers of lawlessness".

Yes! To say I have kept the commandment to not murder and to believe I've never murdered and to refuse to go to the light of truth (as God sees, not as the world sees it) - that is being a worker of lawlessness. It is to make a deal to cheat death. It's been good talking with you!

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

The inward obedience, through love and gratitude, is the best kind. That is about the only way a person could ever hope to obey. However, what most people miss is this - If I am (truly) being led by the Spirit, my outward actions will reveal my inward obedience. "Thou shalt love thy neighbor" > "Thou shalt not murder". We know this. But if a person is truly following the Spirit, the letter is no problem. Many, many, many people claim to be led by the Spirit, but it just doesn't manifest in their walk. "Many people will say to me, Lord, Lord".... "Depart from me, you workers of lawlessness".

This is all true! As long as a man does not judge by the outside in the wrong way. If a man obeys the law of Moses and sees another man wearing one kind of clothing with another that the law of Moses forbade, and he thinks this means the mans outer walk does not line up with the inner, he is judging wrongly. He is judging by the outside of the cup. Inside, the man could be very pure through the Holy Spirits work in him and God does not lead him to that obedience of the law of Moses. God may or may not have given that man the spirit of that law about clothing. And it is the spirit that avails. The letter does nothing for that mans heart and does not cause him to grow in trusting God.

Men judge outwardly but God sees the heart. He desires truth in the inward parts. It is what He has always desired.

 

[Mec99]

Actually disciplemike the Sabbath was made for us to enjoy God. You and your kind have made man for the Sabbath to be a heavy yoke on us.

What you are teaching is nothing new. Even the Pharisees taught what you are teaching. Read in the Gospels about what Jesus said to the Pharisees. He said they were full of dead men bones and as evil as anyone can be.

What you are teaching is nothing new. You are just repeating what the Pharisees taught, not what God teaches.

 

[Wall]

Actually disciplemike the Sabbath was made for us to enjoy God. You and your kind have made man for the Sabbath to be a heavy yoke on us.

What you are teaching is nothing new. Even the Pharisees taught what you are teaching. Read in the Gospels about what Jesus said to the Pharisees. He said they were full of dead men bones and as evil as anyone can be.

What you are teaching is nothing new. You are just repeating what the Pharisees taught, not what God teaches.

Not so Mec99

MATTHEW 5 [17] Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. [18] For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. [19] Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. [20] For I say unto you, That EXCEPT YOUR RIGHTEOUSNESS SHALL EXCEED THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF THE SCRIBES AND PHARISEES, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Thats very clear. Actually teach and keep the commandments and your righteousness will exceed the righteousness of the scribes and phariees.

LUKE 12 [1] In the mean time, when there were gathered together an innumerable multitude of people, insomuch that they trode one upon another, he began to say unto his disciples first of all, BEWARE YE OF THE LEAVEN OF THE PHARISEES, WHICH IS HYPOCRISY.

Scripture above does not say the leaven of the pharisees was the keeping of Gods 10 commandments. Its hypocrisy. They were hypocrits.

MATTHEW 23 [1] Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples, [2] Saying, THE SCRIBES AND THE PHARISEES SIT IN MOSES' SEAT: [3] ALL THEREFORE WHATSOEVER THEY BID YOU OBSERVE, THAT OBSERVE AND DO; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not. [4] For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers. [5] But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments,

Again very clear. We are to do what the scribes and pharisees say. The scribes and pharisees say but do not do. They are hypocrits.

1 CORINTHIANS 5 [6] Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump? [7] PURGE OUT THEREFORE THE OLD LEAVEN, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us: [8] Therefore let us KEEP THE FEAST, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

Many make the claim that the leaven speaks of the law. Couldnt be further from the truth. Scripture above says purge out the old leaven and in the very next verse tells us to keep the Feast of unleavened bread which is written in law.

 

[KohenMatt]

Actually disciplemike the Sabbath was made for us to enjoy God. You and your kind have made man for the Sabbath to be a heavy yoke on us.

What did God say the purpose of the Sabbath was when He gave the instruction to observe it?

 

[Vigil]

The first step would be this, to get it on the right day. It is the 7th day Sabbath. It is an appointed time of God, to meet with us. It is very valuable. The enemy knows this.

I've seen a lot of debate over this, most Christians think 7th day adventists are too concerned with "which day is technically the sabbath" (Which is saturday to them? I'm not sure.) Personally i think it should be sunday as that is the 7th day. But this was not even the point I was trying to make.

 

[Ariel82]

Every 7 years u give your,fields a Sabbath rest....

Sabbath is normally related to the number 7.....seven days, seven years, seven months, seven hours, seven minutes..

Find time to rest and worship God without worrying about this world.

Folks will try and make it something it's not, but God teaches His children.

 

[Wall]

Matthew 11:28
Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

Yup. And just keep reading if you want this rest

MATTHEW 11 [27] All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him. [28] Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. [29] Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. [30] For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.


In order to find out what rest Jesus is speaking of simply read the very next verse. Keep in mind when this was written it was one continual writing. No chapters and verses.


MATTHEW 12 [1] At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day through the corn; and his disciples were an hungred, and began to pluck the ears of corn, and to eat. [2] But when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day.


MATTHEW 12 [10] And, behold, there was a man which had his hand withered. And they asked him, saying, Is it lawful to heal on the sabbath days? that they might accuse him. [11] And he said unto them, What man shall there be among you, that shall have one sheep, and if it fall into a pit on the sabbath day, will he not lay hold on it, and lift it out? [12] How much then is a man better than a sheep? Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days.

The Jews added over a hundred laws to the original sabbath commandment which made the 4th commandment more of a burden than a blessing. Jesus sets them straight in Matthew 12 on a couple of these added laws to His 4th commandment.

 

[KohenMatt]

Every 7 years u give your,fields a Sabbath rest....

My wife and I bought a small farm last year and we let the land rest and didn't do any work on it. As much as we wanted to, we didn't plant anything or water anything (except our animals.) We started from scratch this year.

 

[disciplemike]

Yup. And just keep reading if you want this rest

MATTHEW 11 [27] All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him. [28] Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. [29] Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. [30] For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.


In order to find out what rest Jesus is speaking of simply read the very next verse. Keep in mind when this was written it was one continual writing. No chapters and verses.


MATTHEW 12 [1] At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day through the corn; and his disciples were an hungred, and began to pluck the ears of corn, and to eat. [2] But when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day.


MATTHEW 12 [10] And, behold, there was a man which had his hand withered. And they asked him, saying, Is it lawful to heal on the sabbath days? that they might accuse him. [11] And he said unto them, What man shall there be among you, that shall have one sheep, and if it fall into a pit on the sabbath day, will he not lay hold on it, and lift it out? [12] How much then is a man better than a sheep? Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days.

The Jews added over a hundred laws to the original sabbath commandment which made the 4th commandment more of a burden than a blessing. Jesus sets them straight in Matthew 12 on a couple of these added laws to His 4th commandment.

Anyone who thinks that passage makes void the 7th day Sabbath, should be arrested for Scripture abuse.

 

[FreeNChrist]

Anyone who thinks that passage makes void the 7th day Sabbath, should be arrested for Scripture abuse.

The Sabbath day is part of the Law, and Christians are not under the Law. So, who cares?

 

[garee]

Anyone who thinks that passage makes void the 7th day Sabbath, should be arrested for Scripture abuse.

It does not make it void. It just shows it is a ceremonial law,(fleshly ordinance) . The time of reformation had come, the shadows became substance of the demonstration.

 

[disciplemike]

It does not make it void. It just shows it is a ceremonial law,(fleshly ordinance) . The time of reformation had come, the shadows became substance of the demonstration.

if you call God's appointed times, "ceremonial law", well that can't be Scripture abuse because the term "ceremonial law" is no where to be found in Scripture.

 

[disciplemike]

The Sabbath day is part of the Law, and Christians are not under the Law. So, who cares?

Brother, I know you are trying to make a point in the best way you can. However, when it comes to God's Sabbath, I suggest you not use the term, "who cares?".

 

[FreeNChrist]

Brother, I know you are trying to make a point in the best way you can. However, when it comes to God's Sabbath, I suggest you not use the term, "who cares?".

Like I said that was Law, and Christians are not under the Law. So, who cares? It's a moot point.

 

[Dan_473]

Electricity OK to use on the Sabbath?

 

[disciplemike]

Like I said that was Law, and Christians are not under the Law. So, who cares? It's a moot point.

not in the least. God's Sabbath will be honored when Messiah returns. Then there will not be people standing around saying, "wait, we are under grace". The Sabbath is not bondage. It is a delight. Why do you (seem to) hate the Sabbath?