So what about the fourth commandment?

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jsr1221

Senior Member
Jul 7, 2013
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I've heard that argument a few dozen times already. I am not sure how it's done where you live, but our electric place is closed on Saturday. I think it is pretty much automated. Either way, if that makes me guilty, then I have to change, NOT God.
Not to mention the fact of going to the grocery store. I'm sure you've gone quite a bit simply because you needed something. But it's a sin to get some groceries, isn't it? I'd hate to be the person that had virtually nothing, and had t wait another day to get food simply because "the law" says not to on THE specific day of rest.
 
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Gladstone

Guest
I've heard that argument a few dozen times already. I am not sure how it's done where you live, but our electric place is closed on Saturday. I think it is pretty much automated. Either way, if that makes me guilty, then I have to change, NOT God.
I started reading this thread from the beginning but skipped to the end from page 13. I'll try to give you some support.
 
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Gladstone

Guest
Yet you've posted on here on "the specific" Sabbath, and dodge whenever someone bring up the point it takes work to have a website running. Each time you post, you cause people to work.
How much then is a man better than a sheep? Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days.

He's trying to share the truth, therefore it is good, and therefore lawful.
 
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Gladstone

Guest
Not to mention the fact of going to the grocery store. I'm sure you've gone quite a bit simply because you needed something. But it's a sin to get some groceries, isn't it? I'd hate to be the person that had virtually nothing, and had t wait another day to get food simply because "the law" says not to on THE specific day of rest.
Avoiding the grocery on the Sabbath is not so burdensome. I recommend you practice it. Love
 

jsr1221

Senior Member
Jul 7, 2013
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How much then is a man better than a sheep? Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days.

He's trying to share the truth, therefore it is good, and therefore lawful.
It's not good truth when it's wrong.
 

jsr1221

Senior Member
Jul 7, 2013
4,265
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Avoiding the grocery on the Sabbath is not so burdensome. I recommend you practice it. Love
If I don't have anything to drink, then I'm walking across the street to get some drinks. If that's a sin then ohh well.
 

JimmieD

Senior Member
Apr 11, 2014
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Either way, if that makes me guilty, then I have to change, NOT God.
So you don't actually believe the stuff you say because I find it doubtful that you will change on this one. I doubt you will turn off your water, power, internet, phone, etc.. on the Sabbath. I find it doubtful that you think you need to change. More likely, you won't change because you don't believe the stuff you say because it would inconvenience you.
 
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Gladstone

Guest
So you don't actually believe the stuff you say because I find it doubtful that you will change on this one. I doubt you will turn off your water, power, internet, phone, etc.. on the Sabbath. I find it doubtful that you think you need to change. More likely, you won't change because you don't believe the stuff you say because it would inconvenience you.
Do we presume to know how Mike or any other might change his/her ways when confronted with the guilt of sin? Like I said before, I skipped some pages in this thread. But I would like to tell Mike, don't let people cause you unfounded guilt by adding to the law. It says nothing about using electricity or running water. When you discover that you have broken the law in ignorance, ask for forgiveness and make a conscience decision to do better next time. You can do it.
 

jsr1221

Senior Member
Jul 7, 2013
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Do we presume to know how Mike or any other might change his/her ways when confronted with the guilt of sin? Like I said before, I skipped some pages in this thread. But I would like to tell Mike, don't let people cause you unfounded guilt by adding to the law. It says nothing about using electricity or running water. When you discover that you have broken the law in ignorance, ask for forgiveness and make a conscience decision to do better next time. You can do it.
And it also doesn't say anything about doing errands on the Sabbath, which causes people to work in the stores in order for it to happen. Just think. The world would fall flat if everyone in it used a specific day as THE day as a day of rest. The op is the reason why people think Christianity is a cult with a bunch of nonsense, brainwashing rules.
 
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Gladstone

Guest
And it also doesn't say anything about doing errands on the Sabbath, which causes people to work in the stores in order for it to happen. Just think. The world would fall flat if everyone in it used a specific day as THE day as a day of rest. The op is the reason why people think Christianity is a cult with a bunch of nonsense, brainwashing rules.
Some people actually still believe in a flat earth. It does seem like it would cause problems, but with God all things are possible. People probably think Christianity is nonsense and brainwashing because the church doesn't follow the rules given by their God as an everlasting covenant, because there are so many false doctrines, and because eating the flesh of the resurrected Jesus and drinking his blood kinda sounds like a strange zombie vampire practice. Lets not forget their favorite graven image is that of the device used to sacrifice the Son of God.
 

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
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And it also doesn't say anything about doing errands on the Sabbath, which causes people to work in the stores in order for it to happen. Just think. The world would fall flat if everyone in it used a specific day as THE day as a day of rest. The op is the reason why people think Christianity is a cult with a bunch of nonsense, brainwashing rules.
Germany’s Quiet Sundays’

For Germans, whether religious or otherwise, Sunday is a sacred day of rest.
That’s what the Wall Street Journal said in its Life & Style section on March 23.

“Germany holds to much the same Monday-to-Friday workweek rhythm as the rest of the world,
but on Sundays it skips a beat,” wrote Frankfurt-based assistant news editor Sarah Sloat in her article
From the WSJ Expat Blog: Germany’s Quiet Sundays - WSJ

She continues:

This uber-efficient country, which puts more restrictions on Sunday activities than nearly all of
its neighbors, nearly shuts down. …Opening Sundays to shopping is fiercely resisted .…
Efforts by retailers and businesses to loosen the rules have also been unsuccessful.
But a blanket prohibition was lifted in 2006, when states were allowed to designate a certain number
of Sundays as open for shopping. In Hesse, where Frankfurt is located, four are permitted each year.

So normal labor and commerce are tightly restricted on Sundays. But what if residents want to spend
their Sunday doing yard work around their homes? Sloat answers this:

Laws regulating shopping hours and noise levels mean stores shut, lawnmowers fall silent, and woe
unto him who flips the switch on an electric tool. … Sonntagsruhe is one term they use.
It simply means “Sunday rest.”

Anyone considering undertaking outdoor chores or home improvements will be in for a surprise.

Regulations limit noise levels, forbidding the use of electric tools like drills and leaf blowers, as well as h
ammering, sawing and loud music. At recycling containers, it’s even prohibited to throw away glass jars
and bottles on Sunday because of the noise. Heavy trucks are banned from German roads on Sunday …
to relieve streets and cities of noise and traffic, and to give drivers a break.

The wsj article makes only a passing and vague mention of the influence of “churches” on Germany’s
reverence for Sundays. But there is one specific church which lies at the very heart of why Germany
“skips a beat” on Sundays: Roman Catholicism.

the Brussels-based European Sunday Alliance, a network of dozens of religious and nonreligious
organizations from 27 European nations whose purpose, according to its website,
is to “raise awareness of the unique value of synchronized free time for our European societies.”
At the helm of these crusaders for Sunday rest is the Roman Catholic Church.

On March 3, the European Sunday Alliance met in Brussels with politicians from all around
the European Union for a “Call for Action” about banning Sunday work.
European Sunday Alliance - First European Interest Group WORK-LIFE BALANCE launched!

The press release for the meeting says:

Stop Sunday Work Now! … Europe is not only an economic but also a social and cultural community. …
The “economization” of Sundays and public holidays deepens social divisions at the expense of
workers and their families. The common weekly day of rest is a clear and visible sign for the
reconciliation of personal, family and professional life. … We need a Europe-wide Sunday protection. …

[T]he European Sunday Alliance draws attention to Sunday as the common weekly day of rest
which enables EU citizens to live their citizenship together.

Why does this Sunday alliance exist and work so arduously to influence Europe’s labor laws?
Why is the Catholic Church so adamant about instituting a Continent-wide day of rest?
And why must it be Sunday instead of another day of the week?

In large part, it is because it was the Catholic Church—in intentional violation of biblical teachings

—that appointed Sunday as a day of rest and worship. The Vatican is proud of the success it had
in this colossal feat, and Sunday rest has become a mark of the Catholic Church’s authority.
 
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prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
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This truth is best explained by the Vatican’s own:

■“Sunday is a Catholic institution and its claim to observance can be defended only on
Catholic principles. … From beginning to end of Scripture there is not a single passage
that warrants the transfer of weekly public worship from the last day of the week to the first”
(Catholic Press, August 1900).

■“Of course the Catholic Church claims that the change was her act. … And the act is a mark of
her ecclesiastical authority in religious things” (letter from the office of Cardinal Gibbons, Nov. 11, 1895).

■“The church is above the Bible; and this transference of Sabbath observance from Saturday to Sunday
is proof positive of that fact. Deny the authority of the church and you have no adequate or reasonable
explanation or justification for the substitution of Sunday for Saturday in the Third—Protestant Fourth
—Commandment of God” (The Catholic Record, Sept. 1, 1923).

■“Perhaps the boldest thing, the most revolutionary change the church ever did, happened in
the first century. The holy day, the Sabbath, was changed from Saturday to Sunday.
‘The day of the Lord’ (dies Dominica) [or “Sunday”] was chosen, not from any direction noted in
the Scriptures, but from the church’s sense of its own power. … People who think that the Scriptures
should be the sole authority, should logically … keep Saturday holy”
(Saint Catherine Catholic Church Sentinel, May 21, 1995).
 
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RobbyEarl

Guest
Acts 20 don't think Catholics were around yet

7[FONT=&quot]Now on the first [/FONT]day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul, ready to depart the next day, spoke to them and continued his message until midnight.
 

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
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Acts 20 don't think Catholics were around yet

7Now on the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul, ready to depart the next day, spoke to them and continued his message until midnight.

do you know breaking bread is only eating a meal?
do you know this is a normal work day here?

this is not a new command to worship on sunday at all,
but records what happened on this one day only.


the Catholics where not around when God condemened sun worship
in the old testement also.
 
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RobbyEarl

Guest
Mark 16-9

[FONT=&quot] Now when He rose early on the first day of the week, He appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom He had cast seven demons. 10 She went and told those who had been with Him, as they mourned and wept.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][h=4]Luke 24 1[/h][FONT=&quot]Now on the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they, and certain other women with them,[a] came to the tomb bringing the spices which they had prepared. [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]2 But they found the stone rolled away from the tomb. [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]3 Then they went in and did not find the body of the Lord Jesus.

[/FONT]
John 20 1
[FONT=&quot]Now on the first day of the week Mary Magdalene went to the tomb early, while it was still dark, and saw that the stone had been taken away from the tomb. [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]2 Then she ran and came to Simon Peter, and to the other disciple, whom Jesus loved, and said to them, “They have taken away the Lord out of the tomb, and we do not know where they have laid Him.”

[/FONT]
Shall I continue?

[/FONT]
 

JimmieD

Senior Member
Apr 11, 2014
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It says nothing about using electricity or running water.
Then you've missed the point. Utilizing modern conveniences such as running water, electricity, internet, phone, etc.. require someone somewhere to be working because equipment must be operated, monitored, and maintained. Using those services places a demand on people to be at work in order to provide those goods and services. So, if you use those things on the Sabbath, then you are demanding that someone, somewhere work on the Sabbath. If I remember my Old Testament, work is prohibited on the Sabbath.
 

KohenMatt

Senior Member
Jun 28, 2013
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Sounds like electricity not OK to use on Sabbath, then
Those who say it's not Ok are probably taking a more Pharisetical attitude.

The BIBLICAL iinstruction is not to kindle a fire. Electricity or gas heat is not a fire. Even if it were, kindle means to start. The pilot light on your furnace is always on, so no kindling there.

The BIBLICAL instruction is to not have your servants work on the Sabbath. Employees at the electric company are not my servants. If anyone wants to say that they are "servants," then they are everyone's, regardless of a Sabbath view. I doubt many people would tell those employees that they are "servants."

Many anti-Sabbath people like to put all sorts of Pharisetical rules on Sabbath-keepers to try and discredit their Sabbath observance instead of sticking to Scriptural instruction.
 

KohenMatt

Senior Member
Jun 28, 2013
4,031
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Then you've missed the point. Utilizing modern conveniences such as running water, electricity, internet, phone, etc.. require someone somewhere to be working because equipment must be operated, monitored, and maintained. Using those services places a demand on people to be at work in order to provide those goods and services. So, if you use those things on the Sabbath, then you are demanding that someone, somewhere work on the Sabbath. If I remember my Old Testament, work is prohibited on the Sabbath.
The instruction was that Israel couldn't work on the Sabbath and neither could their servants.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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Those who say it's not Ok are probably taking a more Pharisetical attitude.

The BIBLICAL iinstruction is not to kindle a fire. Electricity or gas heat is not a fire. Even if it were, kindle means to start. The pilot light on your furnace is always on, so no kindling there.

The BIBLICAL instruction is to not have your servants work on the Sabbath. Employees at the electric company are not my servants. If anyone wants to say that they are "servants," then they are everyone's, regardless of a Sabbath view. I doubt many people would tell those employees that they are "servants."

Many anti-Sabbath people like to put all sorts of Pharisetical rules on Sabbath-keepers to try and discredit their Sabbath observance instead of sticking to Scriptural instruction.

is it OK to pay someone else to work on the Sabbath for you?

I don't cut my own grass on the Sabbath, but I can pay my neighbor to do it for me?