the crucifixion of you, in Christ.

[PeterJens]

As far as "obeying Jesus" in all His commands. Let's look at His words and see if we all obey His commands without thinking of who He is talking to - in the time period He is talking to them.
Here is a question to all of us...did you obey Jesus' words and go to Jerusalem first to preach the gospel just like He commanded?
Here it is again below in blue.
Did you obey Jesus' words when He said to "Go and preach the gospel in Jerusalem, then Judea, then Samaria"?
If you haven't then you are in your own words - you are denying Jesus.

This is a very destructive and uncaring way of handling Jesus's commands and words.
We are called by Jesus as a body to "Go and preach the gospel in Jerusalem, then Judea , then Samaria"

So yes we have fulfilled this.

The intention here is to create doubt in the reader.
A true reality is we are called to accept all Jesus gives us, unless there is a good reason for the
context to not apply to us in particular.

The intention of some is to actually create the opposite. Ignore 99% of what Jesus said and
only accept that portion that fits with their theology and world view.

A better description of this approach is not following Christ.

By their fruit you will know them.

 

[FreeNChrist]

This is a very destructive and uncaring way of handling Jesus's commands and words.
We are called by Jesus as a body to "Go and preach the gospel in Jerusalem, then Judea , then Samaria"

So yes we have fulfilled this.

The intention here is to create doubt in the reader.
A true reality is we are called to accept all Jesus gives us, unless there is a good reason for the
context to not apply to us in particular.

The intention of some is to actually create the opposite. Ignore 99% of what Jesus said and
only accept that portion that fits with their theology and world view.

A better description of this approach is not following Christ.

By their fruit you will know them.

Following what Jesus said in His incarnation is not following Jesus. He is alive. He is not just some red letters in a book.

 

[FreeNChrist]

not unless we follow Jesus by "laying down our selves, picking up ouir cross and following His commands. that's what paul is saying when he commands " you must put to death therefore whatever belongs to your earthly nature" and " those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh"

we are called to follow Jesus by laying down self, and taking up Jesus our nature is dead, His is Life. that is the gospel and the power of the cross. spirit and flesh are one. the flesh is ruled by the spirit. you aren't obligfated to believe as I do. opinions aren't my interest here. I believe this to your comment " with God ALL things are possible>

john 5:25-29 "Very truly I tell you, a time is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who hear will live. For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself. And he has given him authority to judge because he is the Son of Man.Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned."


we are meant to hear Jesus and follow he is saying " come , follow me" it doesn't matter all these arguments and opinions. Gods word is true, not 1 scripture or 2 but it all comes together to make a message that is very clear, when you are looking from the gospel at all the rest of it. Know Jesus

The explanation is actually much simpler than that. "But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh" (Gal 5:16)

But here's the problem. What a lot of folks do is reverse that to say, "Do not carry out the desire of the flesh, and then you will be walking in the Spirit". And that is a recipe for disaster.

 

[Grace777x70]

Originally Posted by PeterJens

This is a very destructive and uncaring way of handling Jesus's commands and words.
We are called by Jesus as a body to "Go and preach the gospel in Jerusalem, then Judea , then Samaria"

So yes we have fulfilled this.

The intention here is to create doubt in the reader.
A true reality is we are called to accept all Jesus gives us, unless there is a good reason for the
context to not apply to us in particular.

The intention of some is to actually create the opposite. Ignore 99% of what Jesus said and
only accept that portion that fits with their theology and world view.

A better description of this approach is not following Christ.

By their fruit you will know them.

Following what Jesus said in His incarnation is not following Jesus. He is alive. He is not just some red letters in a book.

As usual this person missed entirely the point of my post about following Jesus' words to the letter without seeing them "in context".

Did any of us go to Jerusalem "first" to preach the gospel? Jesus did say to go to Jerusalem "first" then Judea and Samaria.

My point was that we need to filter all scripture through the context in which it was given and the finished work of Christ after the cross.

Of course we preach the good news of Jesus Christ and all that He has already done for us.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

The explanation is actually much simpler than that. "But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh" (Gal 5:16)

But here's the problem. What a lot of folks do is reverse that to say, "Do not carry out the desire of the flesh, and then you will be walking in the Spirit". And that is a recipe for disaster.

This was to pare an apple very efficiently. This is what bothered me about a mans post somewhere earlier, where I could see something was wrong but couldn't think how to explain it well. He was saying do what Jesus said and I was saying, I tried, for years to stop murdering, so that is not the answer. He had doing the words of the bible changing us instead of the Holy Spirit doing it. Jesus' words show me how deep sin is in me. But they still don't make me able to conquer or subdue it. They make me want to, I thirst for that righteousness, but that is as far as it goes, no matter how hard I try.

 

[PeterJens]

Following what Jesus said in His incarnation is not following Jesus. He is alive. He is not just some red letters in a book.

This is called polarising a position. Jesus does not contradict His words. As Jesus speaks to your
heart through the Holy Spirit you follow. What is obvious is looking for an excuse to dismiss Jesus
words and intention, by saying that was His incarnation, so does not apply to us.

I am including it all, and then addressing each issue and point.

A way of talking about this particular issue is differentiating contextual statements to the disciples
that were just for them and general points that are for everyone.

The contextual ones are Jesus sending out the disciples to preach the word, heal the sick etc.
without purse or bag.

But equally he uses words like "A new commandment I give to you, love one another."

Now it is not for me to say how the Lord convicts your heart, but the differences are plain.

What is obvious is the very words we have recorded are limited to the 4 gospels, yet here
are believers dismissing them all, on the basis of their theology and not the content of the
words themselves. Now the reason why the gospel writers do not agree with this approach
is because Jesus called His words eternal. Now eternal principles or commands are not
contextual, but laying the foundations of the Kingdom of Heaven.

But then certain believers are happy to exalt Pauls words above Jesus's and then claim they
are pointing to Jesus and His work. This sounds more like worship of Paul than Christ.

 

[FreeNChrist]

This is called polarising a position. Jesus does not contradict His words. As Jesus speaks to your
heart through the Holy Spirit you follow. What is obvious is looking for an excuse to dismiss Jesus
words and intention, by saying that was His incarnation, so does not apply to us.

I am including it all, and then addressing each issue and point.

A way of talking about this particular issue is differentiating contextual statements to the disciples
that were just for them and general points that are for everyone.

The contextual ones are Jesus sending out the disciples to preach the word, heal the sick etc.
without purse or bag.

But equally he uses words like "A new commandment I give to you, love one another."

Now it is not for me to say how the Lord convicts your heart, but the differences are plain.

What is obvious is the very words we have recorded are limited to the 4 gospels, yet here
are believers dismissing them all, on the basis of their theology and not the content of the
words themselves. Now the reason why the gospel writers do not agree with this approach
is because Jesus called His words eternal. Now eternal principles or commands are not
contextual, but laying the foundations of the Kingdom of Heaven.

But then certain believers are happy to exalt Pauls words above Jesus's and then claim they
are pointing to Jesus and His work. This sounds more like worship of Paul than Christ.

No one is saying dismiss the red letters. What is being said, and rightfully so, is you better see them in light of the cross which for us has come, but which was yet to come when those words were spoken. Because the cross changed everything.

 

[PeterJens]

No one is saying dismiss the red letters. What is being said, and rightfully so, is you better see them in light of the cross which for us has come, but which was yet to come when those words were spoken. Because the cross changed everything.

"No one is saying dismiss the red letters."

The strange thing is this is exactly what people are saying. The method is by saying these words
were for the jews and not the christians.

It is like me saying when someone wants to tell me what I need to do, and I say they have no
authority over me, so I can ignore everything they say as it has no relevance unless I choose
to like it.

I have met this kind of language before. It is used to justify horrendous crimes, by saying the
person who the crime is done against is guilty of the worst crime of blasphemy so deserve to die,
or treachery.

It sounds superficially very christian, but is 100% dismissive.
One HG follower put it like this. They could not read the sermon on the mount without feeling
condemnation so never did. It was only spoken to show how far short people fell in righteousness.

This is why I call this all double-speak, it sounds like you agree but actually you do not at all.

And the cross fulfilled everything, so it became a spiritual journey of repentance, confession and
offering a sacrifice, rather than going to the temple, performing the rituals and offering a sacrifice.

But I understand where you are coming from, I just do not agree with it.

On the point of trying to be righteous, you cannot. You need love in your heart, the Holy Spirit
and Christs blood through faith to overcome sinful passions. It is this that powers our victory.

 

[FreeNChrist]

"No one is saying dismiss the red letters."

The strange thing is this is exactly what people are saying. The method is by saying these words
were for the jews and not the christians.

It is like me saying when someone wants to tell me what I need to do, and I say they have no
authority over me, so I can ignore everything they say as it has no relevance unless I choose
to like it.

I have met this kind of language before. It is used to justify horrendous crimes, by saying the
person who the crime is done against is guilty of the worst crime of blasphemy so deserve to die,
or treachery.

It sounds superficially very christian, but is 100% dismissive.
One HG follower put it like this. They could not read the sermon on the mount without feeling
condemnation so never did. It was only spoken to show how far short people fell in righteousness.

This is why I call this all double-speak, it sounds like you agree but actually you do not at all.

And the cross fulfilled everything, so it became a spiritual journey of repentance, confession and
offering a sacrifice, rather than going to the temple, performing the rituals and offering a sacrifice.

But I understand where you are coming from, I just do not agree with it.

On the point of trying to be righteous, you cannot. You need love in your heart, the Holy Spirit
and Christs blood through faith to overcome sinful passions. It is this that powers our victory.

Continuing to say that it is exactly what people are saying even after being corrected, only shows you are incapable of understanding what people are actually saying.

And if you miss what I just told you people are actually saying, you will not only continue to not understand what others are saying, you will also continue to not understand what God is saying. Just saying.

 

[followjesus]

This is a very destructive and uncaring way of handling Jesus's commands and words.
We are called by Jesus as a body to "Go and preach the gospel in Jerusalem, then Judea , then Samaria"

So yes we have fulfilled this.

The intention here is to create doubt in the reader.
A true reality is we are called to accept all Jesus gives us, unless there is a good reason for the
context to not apply to us in particular.

The intention of some is to actually create the opposite. Ignore 99% of what Jesus said and
only accept that portion that fits with their theology and world view.

A better description of this approach is not following Christ.


By their fruit you will know them.

amen to that. the doctrine wants only His death and resurrection, and not His words. or only the words they choose to accept. they will hold to "whoever believes" in the gospel, but when they see " onbey my commands" that just simply doesn't apply to them. just offensive to me is the idea that ill accept this mans suffering agony shame, him being spit on, laughed at, mocked whipped, beaten mercilessly, and nailed to a cross as a common criminal. but all he said I don't accept.......it really just mocks Jesus more its like saying " hes no more than a scapegoat for my sin" but He isn't my Lord and commander. though He is and was and will be. I truly hate what the world has done to Gods grace that is only found in Jesus Christ

 

[followjesus]

Continuing to say that it is exactly what people are saying even after being corrected, only shows you are incapable of understanding what people are actually saying.

And if you miss what I just told you people are actually saying, you will not only continue to not understand what others are saying, you will also continue to not understand what God is saying. Just saying.

Jesus words are for all nations, everything He said to do, how to behave, what is coming in the future all His gospel is for the entire world. what he said to the jews He is saying to all the world. that's the commission. after resuirrection. go forth into ALL NATIONS and teach them to obey ALL I have commanded you"

until we come up with another way to now exclude Jesus commission to the entire world, to say he said thos to this group and that to that group doesn't hold water. if Jesus said something it is for His disciples. it is true and eternally relevant. its about what He said not who He said it to. if hes teaching a lesson its for any believer. all nations, teach them to OBEY what I have commanded YOU. all nations, teach them to obey what I have commanded YOU. ALL NATIONS. go into all the world teach them to obey me. if you love me, keepo my commands.

 

[followjesus]

"No one is saying dismiss the red letters."

The strange thing is this is exactly what people are saying. The method is by saying these words
were for the jews and not the christians.

It is like me saying when someone wants to tell me what I need to do, and I say they have no
authority over me, so I can ignore everything they say as it has no relevance unless I choose
to like it.

I have met this kind of language before. It is used to justify horrendous crimes, by saying the
person who the crime is done against is guilty of the worst crime of blasphemy so deserve to die,
or treachery.

It sounds superficially very christian, but is 100% dismissive.
One HG follower put it like this. They could not read the sermon on the mount without feeling
condemnation so never did. It was only spoken to show how far short people fell in righteousness.

This is why I call this all double-speak, it sounds like you agree but actually you do not at all.

And the cross fulfilled everything, so it became a spiritual journey of repentance, confession and
offering a sacrifice, rather than going to the temple, performing the rituals and offering a sacrifice.

But I understand where you are coming from, I just do not agree with it.

On the point of trying to be righteous, you cannot. You need love in your heart, the Holy Spirit
and Christs blood through faith to overcome sinful passions. It is this that powers our victory.

matthew 28:18-20. go into all nations and teach them to obey everything I have commanded you.

 

[followjesus]

This was to pare an apple very efficiently. This is what bothered me about a mans post somewhere earlier, where I could see something was wrong but couldn't think how to explain it well. He was saying do what Jesus said and I was saying, I tried, for years to stop murdering, so that is not the answer. He had doing the words of the bible changing us instead of the Holy Spirit doing it. Jesus' words show me how deep sin is in me. But they still don't make me able to conquer or subdue it. They make me want to, I thirst for that righteousness, but that is as far as it goes, no matter how hard I try.

there is no spirit apart from Jesus words. lol. " spirit gives birth to spirit, my words are spirit and they are life. Jesus didn't say don't do this. that's law. Jesus said if theres lust in you, remove it and think pure. that is infact the spirit speaking, my words are spirit and they are Life. you cannot separate the spirit of Jesus from His words. you guys want to claim His death and resurrection and say you are walking by the spirit without acceopting His words that ARE the spirit in you. the spirit isn't just irrelevant, it doesn't just magically control you. you FOLLOW him. the words of Chjrist are how the spirit gets in us, not by rejecting them but by accepting them. the issue you are not accepting is that His words are the Life, the spirit, the way.

we only receive the spirit by believing Jesus. all we have on earth to know Him is the word, the gospel. we cannot receive the spirit and reject His words, they are eternally bound go hand in hand. the words are the spirit, they are living and active in those who believe them. you are in error, you see not the connection between the words and spirit, look to Jesus " my words are spirit and they are Life.

"you are born again of the imperishable seed of the living and enduring word of God....

the word of God is living and active, it judges the attitudes of the heart and mind"

spirit gives birth to spirit, my words are spirit and they are life.

to separate jesus words and spirit is impossible......

 

[followjesus]

No one is saying dismiss the red letters. What is being said, and rightfully so, is you better see them in light of the cross which for us has come, but which was yet to come when those words were spoken. Because the cross changed everything.

heaven and earth will disappear but my WORDS will never pass away......you cant pick and choose with Jesus He is either your Lord, or He is not. he is no respecter of persons, if He tells the people in the gospel " forgive and you will be forgiven, do not and you will not" that's meant for all who BELIEVE in Him. that's why the theme of scripture for salvation is " Believe in Jesus" either believe the Lord or create ways to omit Him as Lord. like " well he said that pre cross" okay what did He say after the cross????

Go forth into ALL nations...teaching THEM to OBEY everything I have commanded YOU. this commission AFTER the cross, makes all he said relevant to ALL people. this should make you say " Jesus said this He knows" all nations to obey all I have commanded you. translation = Jesus gospel is meant for the entire world. His commands, His words. all nations everywhere all people. obey what He taught oin the gospel. there is no valid omission of Jesus words

 

[followjesus]

Originally Posted by PeterJens

This is a very destructive and uncaring way of handling Jesus's commands and words.
We are called by Jesus as a body to "Go and preach the gospel in Jerusalem, then Judea , then Samaria"

So yes we have fulfilled this.

The intention here is to create doubt in the reader.
A true reality is we are called to accept all Jesus gives us, unless there is a good reason for the
context to not apply to us in particular.

The intention of some is to actually create the opposite. Ignore 99% of what Jesus said and
only accept that portion that fits with their theology and world view.

A better description of this approach is not following Christ.

By their fruit you will know them.





As usual this person missed entirely the point of my post about following Jesus' words to the letter without seeing them "in context".

Did any of us go to Jerusalem "first" to preach the gospel? Jesus did say to go to Jerusalem "first" then Judea and Samaria.

My point was that we need to filter all scripture through the context in which it was given and the finished work of Christ after the cross.

Of course we preach the good news of Jesus Christ and all that He has already done for us.

the proper context to understand the gospel is the commission. does it apply? do His commands apply to everyone? matthew 28:18-20. after the cross. all nations all people. nexst your stance will be, well he hadn't ascended yet, so that disqualifies what he said after the cross.......refuse to omit based on doctrines in the modern worldm they are from the enemy, Believe Jesus

 

[followjesus]

I understand and well stated, however if our faith is not in the work of the cross then we have failed. He had to go to the cross in order to walk out of the tomb.

No, if our Faith ois not in Jesus the living word of God, we have failed. we do need to understand the death and resurrection, but our faith is not in His work, it is in the Son of God, really you don't find any scripture saying " Just believe in my work for you" but you find so many saying believe in me, trust in me, follow me, have faith in me.....it is Jesus himselof where our faith needs to be, we believe in Jesus, therefore we believe in what he did for us, AND all he said to us. we trust in Jesus, not simply the cross, if we believe Jesus, Gods testimony of Jesus then our faith is placed in the right one. but not his work, Him all of Jesus.

 

[followjesus]

There is no Resurrection with out the cross.

there is no resurrection without Jesus " I am the resurrection and the Life"......he never tells people to believe in a cross. but to believe in Him, Jesus.

 

[FreeNChrist]

Jesus words are for all nations, everything He said to do, how to behave, what is coming in the future all His gospel is for the entire world. what he said to the jews He is saying to all the world. that's the commission. after resuirrection. go forth into ALL NATIONS and teach them to obey ALL I have commanded you"

until we come up with another way to now exclude Jesus commission to the entire world, to say he said thos to this group and that to that group doesn't hold water. if Jesus said something it is for His disciples. it is true and eternally relevant. its about what He said not who He said it to. if hes teaching a lesson its for any believer. all nations, teach them to OBEY what I have commanded YOU. all nations, teach them to obey what I have commanded YOU. ALL NATIONS. go into all the world teach them to obey me. if you love me, keepo my commands.

Jesus is not those red letters and He isn't commanding anyone from the pages of a book, but only from within the heart of those He indwells.

 

[FreeNChrist]

there is no spirit apart from Jesus words. lol. " spirit gives birth to spirit, my words are spirit and they are life. Jesus didn't say don't do this. that's law. Jesus said if theres lust in you, remove it and think pure. that is infact the spirit speaking, my words are spirit and they are Life. you cannot separate the spirit of Jesus from His words. you guys want to claim His death and resurrection and say you are walking by the spirit without acceopting His words that ARE the spirit in you. the spirit isn't just irrelevant, it doesn't just magically control you. you FOLLOW him. the words of Chjrist are how the spirit gets in us, not by rejecting them but by accepting them. the issue you are not accepting is that His words are the Life, the spirit, the way.

we only receive the spirit by believing Jesus. all we have on earth to know Him is the word, the gospel. we cannot receive the spirit and reject His words, they are eternally bound go hand in hand. the words are the spirit, they are living and active in those who believe them. you are in error, you see not the connection between the words and spirit, look to Jesus " my words are spirit and they are Life.

"you are born again of the imperishable seed of the living and enduring word of God....

the word of God is living and active, it judges the attitudes of the heart and mind"

spirit gives birth to spirit, my words are spirit and they are life.

to separate jesus words and spirit is impossible......

You have in effect deified the red letters of the Bible, making them synonymous with Jesus Himself and limiting Him to no more than the words on a page. A grave and damning error.

 

[followjesus]

This is called polarising a position. Jesus does not contradict His words. As Jesus speaks to your
heart through the Holy Spirit you follow. What is obvious is looking for an excuse to dismiss Jesus
words and intention, by saying that was His incarnation, so does not apply to us.

I am including it all, and then addressing each issue and point.

A way of talking about this particular issue is differentiating contextual statements to the disciples
that were just for them and general points that are for everyone.

The contextual ones are Jesus sending out the disciples to preach the word, heal the sick etc.
without purse or bag.

But equally he uses words like "A new commandment I give to you, love one another."

Now it is not for me to say how the Lord convicts your heart, but the differences are plain.

What is obvious is the very words we have recorded are limited to the 4 gospels, yet here
are believers dismissing them all, on the basis of their theology and not the content of the
words themselves. Now the reason why the gospel writers do not agree with this approach
is because Jesus called His words eternal. Now eternal principles or commands are not
contextual, but laying the foundations of the Kingdom of Heaven.

But then certain believers are happy to exalt Pauls words above Jesus's and then claim they
are pointing to Jesus and His work. This sounds more like worship of Paul than Christ.

what you are saying here is exactly my issue with all these doctrines, actually so offensive to me the willingness to just omit all he said. he said all of it then died for us, then rose and gave the command " go teach them all I have taught you". people want pauls message because its easily distorted to omit Jesus gospel, never did paul or would he ever omit anything Jesus said