Reproving the world of sin

[InSpiritInTruth]

thus what you call false accusations on my part are in reality spot on accurate observations. Prove me wrong;

Alrighty, here are your words and false accusations .....

You claim to be a sinless perfectionist and you look down your nose at sinners who understand their shortfalls and need for God's grace. Your own words and self righteous attitude condemn you. And you better believe I'll always rant against such heretics as long as I have a heartbeat.

Now you made an false accusation above about how She claims to be a "sinless perfectionist". You say they are her own words, SO BY ALL MEANS PROVE TO US ALL YOU ARE NOT A LIAR AND A FALSE ACCUSER by providing proof of the thread and post # where her own words proclaim what you so falsely accuse. PUT UP, OR SHUT UP!

 

[gb9]

I am a past tense sinner, a present day saint. I do not live in ongoing sin, but I have yet to be perfected- inspritintruth bearing fruit thread, post # 124

 

[gb9]

inspritintruth, I give half an apology, because you did say your have not been perfected. my mistake, I apologize.

but as for the " not living in ongoing sin ", which could be defined any way you choose well o.k., maybe. past tense sinner, well one sin makes you a present tense sinner, so that part is completely wrong. so there you go. I am done talking to you. God bless you and yours.

 

[oldethennew]

Paul and many of the other heroes of the Bible have always been my wife's and my inspiration,
but,
there is no doubt in my mind that if I gave up my life for my brethren and was nailed and hung on
a cross, that I would not still be a sinner...even in my most profound Love for Him and my Brethren...

 

[Utah]

Alrighty, here are your words and false accusations .....

Now you made an false accusation above about how She claims to be a "sinless perfectionist". You say they are her own words, SO BY ALL MEANS PROVE TO US ALL YOU ARE NOT A LIAR AND A FALSE ACCUSER by providing proof of the thread and post # where her own words proclaim what you so falsely accuse. PUT UP, OR SHUT UP!

Ooh, "put up or shut up" in capital letters. Your online bravado is, well, humorous. You know full well you three amigos blast people regarding hyper grace, blah blah blah, we're all on the outside of salvation looking in, blah blah blah, we live sinful lives not adhering to God's law, blah blah blah. If you were not pharisaic and judgmental towards everyone this conversation wouldn't be taking place.

But here you are trying to pigeon-hole me, and it's sad to say the least. The specific words, sinless perfectionist, are not stated verbatim by you, you're too cunning and slick to set yourselves up like that, but I'm calling you out on what you know full well to be completely true, that you present yourselves with a general elitist attitude of being holier than thou while condemning everyone who states their imperfections and need for grace. You don't even have the dignity or courage to admit you sin.

You're a sad joke of a man, a true coward who lifts himself up by attempting to demean others. I'm talking to you, ISIT. You and your two little cohorts who constantly celebrate each other's posts of indignities against those of us who understand grace. But I digress, all you need to do is man up and admit you fall short of God's glory because you still sin and always will on this side of Heaven. Come on, don't let your pride stand between you and earning everyone's respect for being honest. A gesture which will go a long way with God, mind you.

 

[Utah]

inspritintruth, I give half an apology, because you did say your have not been perfected. my mistake, I apologize.

but as for the " not living in ongoing sin ", which could be defined any way you choose well o.k., maybe. past tense sinner, well one sin makes you a present tense sinner, so that part is completely wrong. so there you go. I am done talking to you. God bless you and yours.

And yet he so arrogantly throws stones at others.

 

[Utah]

Paul and many of the other heroes of the Bible have always been my wife's and my inspiration,
but,
there is no doubt in my mind that if I gave up my life for my brethren and was nailed and hung on
a cross, that I would not still be a sinner...even in my most profound Love for Him and my Brethren...

Come again?

 

[oldethennew]

UTAH -

Come again?

REV. 2:7.
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches;
To him that overcometh will I give to eat of The Tree of Life,
which is in the midst of the Paradise of God.

the 'word', (over-cometh) is mentioned (7) times in the messages to the Churches.
In the grammatical sense it is saying, 'he that is over-coming' - that is, that it is a
continual process in our lives, which in indicated in Strong's definition and is
strongly expressed in the message to 'each church'.
G3528 STRONG's =
of Christians, that hold fast their faith even unto death against the power of their foes,
and temptations and persecutions.

Utah, this is what we were speaking of, for if we endure persecution unto death,
we are in the process of 'over-coming' sin', that is, we fight the 'good faith' against
the foes of Christ our Lord and against our 'inner-turmoil' with the temptations of this world...

so, if I be hung on a tree or if I be whipped, or if I be stoned, I am 'over-coming' unto the end,
even as Steven pronounced, 'Look! I see the heavens opened and The Son of Man standing
at the Right Hand of God.'

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Ooh, "put up or shut up" in capital letters. Your online bravado is, well, humorous. You know full well you three amigos blast people regarding hyper grace, blah blah blah, we're all on the outside of salvation looking in, blah blah blah, we live sinful lives not adhering to God's law, blah blah blah. If you were not pharisaic and judgmental towards everyone this conversation wouldn't be taking place.

But here you are trying to pigeon-hole me, and it's sad to say the least. The specific words, sinless perfectionist, are not stated verbatim by you, you're too cunning and slick to set yourselves up like that, but I'm calling you out on what you know full well to be completely true, that you present yourselves with a general elitist attitude of being holier than thou while condemning everyone who states their imperfections and need for grace. You don't even have the dignity or courage to admit you sin.

You're a sad joke of a man, a true coward who lifts himself up by attempting to demean others. I'm talking to you, ISIT. You and your two little cohorts who constantly celebrate each other's posts of indignities against those of us who understand grace. But I digress, all you need to do is man up and admit you fall short of God's glory because you still sin and always will on this side of Heaven. Come on, don't let your pride stand between you and earning everyone's respect for being honest. A gesture which will go a long way with God, mind you.

James 1:26

If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain.

 

[PilgrimPassingThru]

Here you go

As with this conversation with Cee (note Cees context) and ISITs agreement in it

^Cee seems to like that^

Gby has offered a half appology, this is not about that but the very post he quote there

Gby (many posts later) takes ISIT's same words to those scriptures (in Cee's post) with which he is expressing agreement with

And would ask AGAIN (notice)

As SUCH WERE some of you (even as while we WERE YET sinners) who did those very things

Even as we ourselves are in the present BEING PERFECTED also (in love and in respects to our fruit)
and having the same unto perfection.

But as is written, God commendeth his love toward us, in that,while WE WERE YET sinners, Christ died for us. God would teach sinners in the way (even as Christ is the way). Christ is not a minister of sin (which the grace of God is for) and given for the obedience of the faith (which works by love) wherein we are being perfected we are not to live in ongoing sin, we arent even to obey sin in the very lusts thereof. ISIT even stated he is not yet perfected, and as far as fruits go we are to have them unto perfection (bearing much) even unto the glory and praise of God.

The next set of responses

And here, Gb9 tells him not to read into his response on the above basis (which is kind of ironic) because thats what is done time and time again.

And on just one single line (they could actually find) which just so happens to be on the same thread (after a slew of false accusations over a year) one in agreement with the scriptures is the one thats the big gotcha? The door prize that come with half an appology attached to it because someone was half wrong with what they heard (of him) and the other part not apologized for was what they cant hear from either scripture or himself?

He is agreeing with the context of scripture given to him by Cee (concerning "such WERE some of you) in those things (which he states does not continue in). He also further clarifies which speaks to the actual fruit we are to have in Christ (the Vine) as far as it speaks to perfection, and he answers according to the same (concerning fruit unto perfection) saying he is not yet perfect.

That gets overlooked and charged against him, (then a sort of an appology comes) even though its THEY going on about SINLESS perfection, that is why I even asked myself (in the clips I posted) where is THAT? And yet regardless of asking so many times (as I show it more then a few times) that is the accusation and I can show it to the contrary and yet nothing come forth (as is always the case from the oppoenents). Then this thread will likely disapear (to conceal these very things so I copied it) to re remind.

Its by grace itself sin is not to have dominion over you

And yet his adhereance to Moses (and being a legalist) is typically blamed when grace itself teaches it.

Thats what he says, as far as works its not of the law but of Christ and the grace and power that come by Him

And the typical accusation he is always answering for (the response above it is cut off for length)

Theres a slew of these kinds of corrections (just google them you will be there a few days)

They use being sinless as a gotcha when there is what I had pointed out under many posts being "without sin" having sin "in my members" (for which grace is for) in respects to its dominion over us, and also having sinned (past tense, as we all have) which if you say you have not (we make HIM a liar) who tells us otherwise. And in respects to commiting sin also (in the ongoing present tense). And in fact whenever you quote not commiting a sin that is often snagged up by someone just to say it simply means one will not continue in sin (them pointing to the all sufficient grace of God to accomplish this work within us). But when ISIT says it (even though he has clarified its by grace) and agrees with Paul in what he yet was when Christ died for him) and what he would not continue in (by the same grace) he is accused of being a lying Pharisee trusting in Moses and his own self righteousness and not the Spirit which does the works (in him) and by whom comes the perfecting of his own fruit (which he freely admits is not yet perfect)

I see him speaking to just this,

I have a bunch of them, but there is no gotcha on that one liner people want to throw a party over thats just nuts.

He said nothing wrong, one line in agrement with the scripture (and Cee) on just the same and thats the one he gets tagged for.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Galatians 4:29
But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.

 

[FreeNChrist]

Galatians 4:29
But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.

Exactly. But Jesus can change you if you let Him.

 

[PilgrimPassingThru]

Galatians 4:29
But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.

Sure is, want to see who is doing the pursuing its not on your part, that much is obvious.

 

[followjesus]

And yet he so arrogantly throws stones at others.

Utah no ones judging you ar saying you are on the outside of salvation none of what you are saying is accurate. you feel judged because you are seeing scripture that does indeed put you under the Lords command, grace or not. He who gave grace, also said obey my commands because of all I have done for you. Grace does not nullify obedience it brings obedience. the distortion that says " because of Grace, I have no obligation to obey Gods commands" is a lie, a false doctrine that destroys people in their minds thinking grace is God that God giving Grace to the world in Jesus, nullifies His authpority. its a theme from cover to cover in His word. Grace is part of the equation it is not God. God is God and His word MATTERS. so if the one who died for you says obey my commands, and someone is saying " look hes saying obey me" that's not a judgement on you, its someone sharing the word with you, Gods own word.

I haven't read all of these comments so maybe someone is judging you, but theres a difference in exposing a false doctrine and personally judging someone. false doctrines are deadly to Christians, if we believe wrong, were deceived. its love to speak the truth evenb if it offends

 

[jamesg1951]

Utah no ones judging you ar saying you are on the outside of salvation none of what you are saying is accurate. you feel judged because you are seeing scripture that does indeed put you under the Lords command, grace or not. He who gave grace, also said obey my commands because of all I have done for you. Grace does not nullify obedience it brings obedience. the distortion that says " because of Grace, I have no obligation to obey Gods commands" is a lie, a false doctrine that destroys people in their minds thinking grace is God that God giving Grace to the world in Jesus, nullifies His authpority. its a theme from cover to cover in His word. Grace is part of the equation it is not God. God is God and His word MATTERS. so if the one who died for you says obey my commands, and someone is saying " look hes saying obey me" that's not a judgement on you, its someone sharing the word with you, Gods own word.

I haven't read all of these comments so maybe someone is judging you, but theres a difference in exposing a false doctrine and personally judging someone. false doctrines are deadly to Christians, if we believe wrong, were deceived. its love to speak the truth evenb if it offends

There is therefore now NO CONDEMNATION for those who are in Christ Jesus !!! Get with the program.

 

[PilgrimPassingThru]

This part for now

Ooh, "put up or shut up" in capital letters. Your online bravado is, well, humorous. You know full well you three amigos blast people regarding hyper grace, blah blah blah, we're all on the outside of salvation looking in, blah blah blah, we live sinful lives not adhering to God's law, blah blah blah. If you were not pharisaic and judgmental towards everyone this conversation wouldn't be taking place.

Besides spending all last night and all today trying to find your accusations in the previous things (and finding none) now that comment. Since its July I thought it good to show at the end of May (which was just a couple months ago ) that I did not even know what hyper grace even was. I also didnt even know who follows this hypergrace doctrine (as there is no list of people for me to refer to this sect) I never even listened to this Mr Prince fella (I began to think I joined his website) like it was this secret group who call themselves WE that pile on you (and who are secretly promoting his stuff, doctrine/books/vdeos) which I have not heard bought or watched (and neither do I want to).

Now if I just said that you might want to call me a liar (and there we go again) and just so I can copy proof i adressed this (before the thread disapears) I want to post it so as to have THAT in my possession (for future reference) as I do those things on threads that disapear. But if I didnt provide the evidence you would just run at the mouth as you do. So I spent the evening doing the most vainest things collecting these things to refer to, since one accusation typically leads into another (even as the goal posts move also).

And to post these things (on my part) is absolutely stupid (I know) but i study and collect things on this type of thing

Date is the end of May here

I am behind CS1 asking HRFTD a question on whatever this hyer grace thing is

I myself dont even know what it is but I respond to CS1 first

Then I touch down on HRFTD's post here as well.

Hey look who likes that nuetral comment, not only that JGIG wrote a whole thing for me (since I didnt know that is too long to post) but responds here and me to her

Notice how I dont know who WE is I didnt know who that was on another OP also when I spoke to this elsewhere. I never heard of this thing or the man you follow and not interested in fact most the posters the seem to be on the threads (which I dont recall ever seeing you on them) are on ignore and have been for a while

See?

But WHO the WE are shouldnt matter one ioda, but sharing the truth according to the scriptures in a bible discussion forum.

(Note: not all are shown in that screen shot who are on ignore) just stating they have been told and from the time I didnt know what it was until now I have remained nuetral) but staying to the point and off the man

But to continue (keeping in mind that just 2 months ago I had no clue to what this thing was) I am supposedly blasting this group of WE (of persons I do not even know) save the obvious two (who I have on ignore)

Last two here

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That was May ^above ^(so let that be where my knowledge grew a little of this sect be marked)
as I didnt know anything of it in all my 25 years in Christ, I cant keep up with the sects and I try to avoid learning of many of these TV preachers and their doctrines (so I wouldnt know).

And because Its July here in the next post (a hyper grace thread) where all I did was offer my observations (see my next post after)

Im guessing, by observing the issue of grace itself (others see as Gods grace) in this hyper deal whereas I am saying that maybe Gods grace isnt the perceived enemy (from the other side of things) as I dont know I dont sit under this other mans doctrine. So I can only state that maybe "the enemy" (as it may be perceived) isnt really an enemy of Gods grace but whatever is this hyper grace deal by this man (who I dont learn from). I try to stay away from glorying in men its divisive (we are of, we are of, we are of) because they become offended in his things and all that.

You would have to read in between, the other snark as usual (on my first comment) but I replied to Ben this way

So you will have to come up with these accusations also (if you could quote me on these)

Then this week in July still

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That is followed up by an accusation of accusing it here by gby in post # 324

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/138894-bearing-fruit-17.html#post2706634

Which I answer here (this way) because I dont know this Prince fella

I thought I was very nuetral about it, and spoke to what grace does (and not try to divide it) see the following response

No Amen, just keep reading to which I respond

Then out of nowhere this comes in (no one is quoted) we both reply "quote me" (on this) because who can tell?

(Etc etc...) as we are on the same thread.

Its tiresome but its employed all the time, and I posted this knowing its a waste of time to do so

But to keep a copy and fold it into my studies on just this sort of thing.[/TD]
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[gb9]

p.p.t., I just want to say this: i have never heard 1 sentence uttered by joseph prince. i am not a " pure " o.s.a.s. person, i think that salvation does not cancel our free will.

however, i 100 % believe that we are saved by grace, through faith, for good works, and that there was 1 sinless person in human history, that was Jesus, and anyone in any way claiming to not sin is unture. if i mis-understood some of your posts, i apologize. God bless you and yours.

 

[followjesus]

This part for now



Besides spending all last night and all today trying to find your accusations in the previous things (and finding none) now that comment. Since its July I thought it good to show at the end of May (which was just a couple months ago ) that I did not even know what hyper grace even was. I also didnt even know who follows this hypergrace doctrine (as there is no list of people for me to refer to this sect) I never even listened to this Mr Prince fella (I began to think I joined his website) like it was this secret group who call themselves WE that pile on you (and who are secretly promoting his stuff, doctrine/books/vdeos) which I have not heard bought or watched (and neither do I want to).

Now if I just said that you might want to call me a liar (and there we go again) and just so I can copy proof i adressed this (before the thread disapears) I want to post it so as to have THAT in my possession (for future reference) as I do those things on threads that disapear. But if I didnt provide the evidence you would just run at the mouth as you do. So I spent the evening doing the most vainest things collecting these things to refer to, since one accusation typically leads into another (even as the goal posts move also).

And to post these things (on my part) is absolutely stupid (I know) but i study and collect things on this type of thing

Date is the end of May here

I am behind CS1 asking HRFTD a question on whatever this hyer grace thing is

I myself dont even know what it is but I respond to CS1 first

Then I touch down on HRFTD's post here as well.

Hey look who likes that nuetral comment, not only that JGIG wrote a whole thing for me (since I didnt know that is too long to post) but responds here and me to her

Notice how I dont know who WE is I didnt know who that was on another OP also when I spoke to this elsewhere. I never heard of this thing or the man you follow and not interested in fact most the posters the seem to be on the threads (which I dont recall ever seeing you on them) are on ignore and have been for a while

See?

But WHO the WE are shouldnt matter one ioda, but sharing the truth according to the scriptures in a bible discussion forum.

(Note: not all are shown in that screen shot who are on ignore) just stating they have been told and from the time I didnt know what it was until now I have remained nuetral) but staying to the point and off the man

But to continue (keeping in mind that just 2 months ago I had no clue to what this thing was) I am supposedly blasting this group of WE (of persons I do not even know) save the obvious two (who I have on ignore)

Last two here

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That was May ^above ^(so let that be where my knowledge grew a little of this sect be marked)
as I didnt know anything of it in all my 25 years in Christ, I cant keep up with the sects and I try to avoid learning of many of these TV preachers and their doctrines (so I wouldnt know).

And because Its July here in the next post (a hyper grace thread) where all I did was offer my observations (see my next post after)

Im guessing, by observing the issue of grace itself (others see as Gods grace) in this hyper deal whereas I am saying that maybe Gods grace isnt the perceived enemy (from the other side of things) as I dont know I dont sit under this other mans doctrine. So I can only state that maybe "the enemy" (as it may be perceived) isnt really an enemy of Gods grace but whatever is this hyper grace deal by this man (who I dont learn from). I try to stay away from glorying in men its divisive (we are of, we are of, we are of) because they become offended in his things and all that.

You would have to read in between, the other snark as usual (on my first comment) but I replied to Ben this way

So you will have to come up with these accusations also (if you could quote me on these)

Then this week in July still

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That is followed up by an accusation of accusing it here by gby in post # 324

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/138894-bearing-fruit-17.html#post2706634

Which I answer here (this way) because I dont know this Prince fella

I thought I was very nuetral about it, and spoke to what grace does (and not try to divide it) see the following response

No Amen, just keep reading to which I respond

Then out of nowhere this comes in (no one is quoted) we both reply "quote me" (on this) because who can tell?

(Etc etc...) as we are on the same thread.

Its tiresome but its employed all the time, and I posted this knowing its a waste of time to do so

But to keep a copy and fold it into my studies on just this sort of thing.[/TD]
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not at all a waste of time, it really shines a bright light on the matter for anyone who takes time to read. sister, accusation, insult, exclusion is nothing in comparison to the truth you are seeking, holding to and sharing. it is the truth that offends the doctrines in us. the world is working hard to keep us in the dark, you are a blessing to my heart in Christ

 

[followjesus]

There is therefore now NO CONDEMNATION for those who are in Christ Jesus !!! Get with the program.

I agree for those in Christ. yet if you read the chaoter you are quoting from you will find that those who follow the sinful nature are in themselves and not Christ. if we just take romans 8:1, shouldn't you then learn what " in Christ" means? " therefore brothers we have an OBLIGATION but it is not to the sinful nature, for if you live according to the sinful nature you will die, BUT if by the spirit, you put to death the misdeeds of the body you will live."

that's what it means to be " in Christ" to put to death the misdeeds or in other words our sinful actions through Faith in Jesus. in Christ means you are in Christ, faith means you believe Jesus. I'm with Jesus program, thanks for the encouragement. I encourage you also to get with HIS program. after all there is no condemnation IN His program. I believe that there are a lot more scriptures than romans 8:1. I think that is a sentence and the rest is telling you who is in Christ. id rather Just trust Jesus program than make my own

 

[jamesg1951]

I agree for those in Christ. yet if you read the chaoter you are quoting from you will find that those who follow the sinful nature are in themselves and not Christ. if we just take romans 8:1, shouldn't you then learn what " in Christ" means? " therefore brothers we have an OBLIGATION but it is not to the sinful nature, for if you live according to the sinful nature you will die, BUT if by the spirit, you put to death the misdeeds of the body you will live."

that's what it means to be " in Christ" to put to death the misdeeds or in other words our sinful actions through Faith in Jesus. in Christ means you are in Christ, faith means you believe Jesus. I'm with Jesus program, thanks for the encouragement. I encourage you also to get with HIS program. after all there is no condemnation IN His program. I believe that there are a lot more scriptures than romans 8:1. I think that is a sentence and the rest is telling you who is in Christ. id rather Just trust Jesus program than make my own

And who is to be the judge of who is "in Christ" , those with stones in their hands intending to throw the at the woman caught in adulter? Jesus said has no one condemned you? Then neither do I.

Once again Jesus warned us about people claiming to preaching the "Jesus Program" who he would say to "Depart from Me for I knew you not" Judge not lest you be judged.