So what about the fourth commandment?

[Ahwatukee]

Do we have faith if we don't obey though? Can I break the fifth sixth seventh eighth and ninth commandments and be saved while breaking them? what about the first second and third? if what you say is so, then I suppose I have licence to sin, because sin no longer exists it was destroyed on Calvary. is this true?

what makes the fourth commandment works and the others not?

If you are in Christ and are lead by the Spirit, are you going to be doing those things? Scripture makes if perfectly clear that no one will be justified by observing the law. As believers we are not under the law. If you have put yourself under the law and are going to tell us that you are keeping it, you are not and cannot. Jesus met the righteous requirements of the law on our behalf. Anyone who goes before God expecting to take credit for what they have done as an aid to salvation, will not receive it and that because they are not trusting in Christ, but in their own efforts. Our focus should be on Christ completely. And when we sin, if we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins. As Paul said and which should also be the attitude of all believers:

"May I never boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ"

 

[garee]

The Sabbath Day is not a shadow. Rather the wording is to remember.

Yes remember ....act in accordance to the shadow.

The rendering is twice once in the fourth commandment there((Exodus 20:8-11) ) and the other fourth using the Exodus(Deuteronomy 5) to point to the same rest. It remains a shadow seeing the total fulfillment will be when we receive of new incorruptible bodies.

This means that the Seventh Day Sabbath points us back to creation. (Genesis 2:1-2)

Yes as it pointed ahead to the Exodus of Egypt to typify the same rest in that parable. .

This all has to do with learning from example. Who set the example? Jesus Himself (John 1) Whose example are we continually reminded to follow Jesus Notice the wording in 2 Corinthians 3:18

The idea is to behold Christ and follow His example. He kept the Sabbath, so we should too.

He is the Sabbath, on the Sabbath he was accused of not keeping it. Why?

The Sabbath rest therefore remains, and that rest is found in Christ and in being in relationship with Him. as we all know, every relationship has expectations and laws, and our relationship with Christ is no different. we must obey His commands and He promises to help us do so.

Yes we obey his commandments but ceremonial laws are shadows that point as shadow to the completion .Again we have the rest in part in these bodies of death .. then when we receive our new bodies we will realize it in full. Until then when we can realize it in whole they remain as a shadow to come.

Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of "things to come"; but the body is of Christ. Col 2:16

Fleshly ordinances as ceremonial laws are designed for the flesh, the temporal. They are not faith issues in respect to things not seen, our new bodies.

Col 2:18 Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,

Its when he see the fulfillment of the rest from these bodies of death. Just as when he see the blood .Not when they applied to the door frames . When he see the rest.

Exodus 12:13 And the blood shall be to you for a token upon the houses where ye are: and when I see the blood, I will pass over you, and the plague shall not be upon you to destroy you, when I smite the land of Egypt.

 

[garee]

Do we have faith if we don't obey though? Can I break the fifth sixth seventh eighth and ninth commandments and be saved while breaking them? what about the first second and third? if what you say is so, then I suppose I have licence to sin, because sin no longer exists it was destroyed on Calvary. is this true?

what makes the fourth commandment works and the others not?

His mercy that triumphs over judgment. It is not license to sin. But is a license to show we have been forgiven .There is no license to sin. For if he would take into account even one violation of his perfect law a person will be found guilty of the whole law. And therefore who could stand before his judgement? . We fear Him because with Him (Emmanuel) there is forgiveness he forgives every transgression. .

 

[disciplemike]

For when they speak great swelling
[words] of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, [through much] wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error. While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage. For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Yeshua HaMashiach, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
2 Peter 2:18-20 (KJV, MBM)

 

[humbledbygrace25]

let us look at Hebrews 4 because this is where this whole debate about "resting in Christ" stems from.

For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day. There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
Hebrews 4:8*-‬9 KJV
http://bible.com/1/heb.4.8-9.KJV

So then is this rest, resting in Christ or resting in the rest that He rested in. the one that remains. The Seventh Day Sabbath

 

[Grace777x70]

In Hebrews 4:8-9 is talking about Joshua - the one who led the Israelites into the promised land. - not the Lord Jesus Christ.

Hebrews 4:8-10 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] For if Joshua had given them rest, He would not have spoken of another day after that.

[SUP]9 [/SUP] So there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God.

[SUP]10 [/SUP] For the one who has entered His rest has himself also rested from his works, as God did from His. ( Notice we are to rest from our own efforts - yes - that means our own efforts to keep the OT Sabbath because Jesus is our true sabbath rest. )

 

[humbledbygrace25]

So friend, then what you are in effect saying that Hebrews 4 is saying is that the fourth commandment has been changed based on a single text of Scripture or rather the understanding of it. Why don't we spiritualize the first second and third commandments away too? Why do the other 9 have to be literal and the fourth merely symbolic? this to me completely does away with the rest of the Testimony of Scripture. I cant take a single text and build a theology off of it. Does this understanding of this verse agree with the other Scriptures

also the time order in Hebrews is moving forward from creation not backwards. Jesus is after David.

 

[Grace777x70]

I am saying that all the commandments have been fulfilled in Christ.

Everything in the Law is a shadow of the real thing which is Christ Himself - including the Sabbath.

Scripture is progressive revelation and it ends in the revelation of Jesus Christ our Lord.

God spoke in the OT in many ways to people but in these last days have spoken to us in His Son. Jesus is to have the preeminence in all things now. Col. 1:18

Col 3:3 - "For you have died and your life is hidden with Christ in God".

Hebrews 1:1-2 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways,

[SUP]2 [/SUP] in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world.

We are dead to the law SO THAT we may be joined to another - our Lord Jesus Christ. Romans 7:1-6

We live now by His life in us. We are one spirit with Christ now.

We do not live by "rules" of the Old Covenant. We live now by the law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus, the law of love, the law of faith ( the Law is not of faith ), the law of liberty in Christ Jesus, the law of Christ - Himself in us.

If people want to esteem one day over another - the they are free to do so but the Christian is not obligated to follow any feast day or observe one day over another.

 

[Yonah]

can someone please respond to Matt. 24:20???

 

[garee]

So friend, then what you are in effect saying that Hebrews 4 is saying is that the fourth commandment has been changed based on a single text of Scripture or rather the understanding of it. Why don't we spiritualize the first second and third commandments away too? Why do the other 9 have to be literal and the fourth merely symbolic? this to me completely does away with the rest of the Testimony of Scripture. I cant take a single text and build a theology off of it. Does this understanding of this verse agree with the other Scriptures

also the time order in Hebrews is moving forward from creation not backwards. Jesus is after David.

It has not been changed, it remains ceremonial in nature in respect to the parables used according to the two different reasons, two different renderings .(Creation and the Exodus).

The other commandments that are not ceremonial as mere fleshly ordinances.They do not use reason to keep them. Because we will realize the rest in part they remain shadows of the eternal rest that will come when we receive our new bodies.

He is the lamb of God slain from the foundation of the world. Rest in His rest from your own works while you do work out His gift because it is Christ working in you to make it possible to both will and do his good pleasure.

His rest simply is not of our selves lest any man boast in false pride. His rest removes all shadows of doubt that he is the comforter that does give us rest.

 

[Grace777x70]

can someone please respond to Matt. 24:20???

Simple...Jesus was telling the "Jewish" people listening that when Jerusalem was being surrounded by armies - flee and pray that this not happen on the Sabbath because the Jewish people would be observing it and would not be allowed to move around on this Jewish day. The Jewish people of that day would still be observing the Sabbath - just like they do today in Israel.

This was fulfilled in 70AD when Titus came in and destroyed Jerusalem. Of note : not one Christian died during this time as they knew what Jesus had predicted in Matt 24.

 

[FreeNChrist]

So friend, then what you are in effect saying that Hebrews 4 is saying is that the fourth commandment has been changed based on a single text of Scripture or rather the understanding of it. Why don't we spiritualize the first second and third commandments away too? Why do the other 9 have to be literal and the fourth merely symbolic? this to me completely does away with the rest of the Testimony of Scripture. I cant take a single text and build a theology off of it. Does this understanding of this verse agree with the other Scriptures

also the time order in Hebrews is moving forward from creation not backwards. Jesus is after David.

Christians are not under the Law.

 

[FreeNChrist]

can someone please respond to Matt. 24:20???

"Someone" already did.

 

[Crustyone]

All past laws were for our edification, therefore it is better for us to adhere to them, although it is not a requirement for salvation and really, never has been. Christs sacrifice was for all, including those already deceased. I don't think that his sacrifice gives us the right to ignore the laws completely, but only to be forgiven for not being able to follow them after trying to do so. Romans 7:14-20 [FONT=&quot]14 We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin.[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do.[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good.[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me.[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]18 For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature.[c] For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out.[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]19 For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing.[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.

Notice that he hates the sin he is does and does not want to do it. verse 15+16[/FONT]

 

[Grace777x70]

Sin is still sin and it will destroy us and those we love as well as ruin our witness of the life of Christ in us. Sin distorts our view of our loving Father and Lord and distorts our view of ourselves and others.

Let's walk by the Spirit that is in us in Christ in our inner man that has been created in righteousness and holiness so that we don't fulfill the lusts of the flesh to do "it's" desires.

 

[garee]

can someone please respond to Matt. 24:20???

Good question. Many different ideas..

But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: For “then” shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened. Mat 24:20

The word flight is used one time in the scriptures. Interesting also that he uses the words : nor ever shall be, to represent the type of tribulation. It would seem to represent the last final .

It would appear to be the end of time, the bringing in of the new heavens and earth where the Sun and Moon are no longer needed as time keepers.

I think the reference Sabbath day (singular) could represent the last day, the end of time. The Sabbath was the last day of the week. The word week does not seem to have its own Greek equivalent, not sure if there is one?

Seven times the use of the phrase “last day” are used to John to represent the rapture, the second resurrection at the end of the age. The last day seems to represent both the last resurrection and judgement day

ohn 11:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the "last day".

John 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the "last day".

Sabbath is not used in the Mark account just winter.

Mark 13:18 And pray ye that your flight be not in the winter.

Winter is used to represent seasons with winter representing a tempest or tribulation.

Acts 27:20 And when neither sun nor stars in many days appeared, and no small tempest (winter) lay on us, all hope that we should be saved was then taken away.

In the Mathew account the Sabbath day is spoken of as plural as in the last days of tribulation. But for the elect's sake those days,plural, in respect to the last day, singular, shall be shortened.

 

[RobbyEarl]

Good question. Many different ideas..

But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: For “then” shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened. Mat 24:20

The word flight is used one time in the scriptures. Interesting also that he uses the words : nor ever shall be, to represent the type of tribulation. It would seem to represent the last final .

It would appear to be the end of time, the bringing in of the new heavens and earth where the Sun and Moon are no longer needed as time keepers.

I think the reference Sabbath day (singular) could represent the last day, the end of time. The Sabbath was the last day of the week. The word week does not seem to have its own Greek equivalent, not sure if there is one?

Seven times the use of the phrase “last day” are used to John to represent the rapture, the second resurrection at the end of the age. The last day seems to represent both the last resurrection and judgement day

ohn 11:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the "last day".

John 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the "last day".

Sabbath is not used in the Mark account just winter.

Mark 13:18 And pray ye that your flight be not in the winter.

Winter is used to represent seasons with winter representing a tempest or tribulation.

Acts 27:20 And when neither sun nor stars in many days appeared, and no small tempest (winter) lay on us, all hope that we should be saved was then taken away.

In the Mathew account the Sabbath day is spoken of as plural as in the last days of tribulation. But for the elect's sake those days,plural, in respect to the last day, singular, shall be shortened.

This was given before the Cross and a Sabbath day Journey was about 20 miles. He also makes reference to those who have young children as they cannot travel very long.

 

[Dan_473]

can someone please respond to Matt. 24:20???

people raised Jewish often continue keeping the law as believers

THE ACTS 21:20 They, when they heard it, glorified God. They said to him, “You see, brother, how many thousands there are among the Jews of those who have believed, and they are all zealous for the law.

 

[Grace777x70]

people raised Jewish often continue keeping the law as believers

THE ACTS 21:20 They, when they heard it, glorified God. They said to him, “You see, brother, how many thousands there are among the Jews of those who have believed, and they are all zealous for the law.

Good point. It didn't take long for the gospel to be watered down by Judaizers in Acts 21. These types kept coming in after Paul preached the true gospel to get people to desert the Lord and to go back to living by the Law. Paul had some strong words to speak about this.

 

[garee]

This was given before the Cross and a Sabbath day Journey was about 20 miles. He also makes reference to those who have young children as they cannot travel very long.

The Sabbath day journey is a oral tradition of men not a written tradition of God.