So what about the fourth commandment?

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FreeNChrist

Guest
It is of course the Comforter who does that inasmuch as we allow Him to. Then as a resullt of that indwelling Spirit we do not do things that would bring us into conflict with the law.
The indwelling Spirit of Christ is who has made the Law obsolete. Under grace Jesus is Himself the divine directive in our lives, who guides and leads us from within…..and He is more than able.
 

Wall

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2013
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It is of course the Comforter who does that inasmuch as we allow Him to. Then as a resullt of that indwelling Spirit we do not do things that would bring us into conflict with the law.
Read scripture below if you wish to recieve the Comforter

JOHN 14 [15] If ye love me, KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS.[16] AND I WILL PRAY THE FATHER, AND HE SHALL GIVE YOU ANOTHER COMFORTER, that he may abide with you for ever;[17] Even THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.[18] I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.[19] Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.[20] At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.[21] HE THAT HATH MY COMMANDMENTS, AND KEEPETH THEM, HE IT IS THAT LOVETH ME: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I WILL LOVE HIM, AND WILL MANIFEST MYSELF TO HIM.
 
J

jamesg1951

Guest
Read scripture below if you wish to recieve the Comforter

JOHN 14 [15] If ye love me, KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS.[16] AND I WILL PRAY THE FATHER, AND HE SHALL GIVE YOU ANOTHER COMFORTER, that he may abide with you for ever;[17] Even THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.[18] I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.[19] Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.[20] At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.[21] HE THAT HATH MY COMMANDMENTS, AND KEEPETH THEM, HE IT IS THAT LOVETH ME: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I WILL LOVE HIM, AND WILL MANIFEST MYSELF TO HIM.
Oops, my mistake, we ARE saved by WORKS not grace. "KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS" !

So we arrive at a catch 22.

All men have sinned .... Man's righteousness is as filthy rags to God. ... So I am trapped in a hell on earth.

I am not "good enough" to keep Christs Commandment. If I do not have the Comforter and Christ will not pray to the Father so I can have the Comforter to give me the strength to obey His commandments, therefore I cannot receive the Comforter.

How do I get this free gift when it is quite obviously not free at all but depends on my keeping the commandments.
 
J

jamesg1951

Guest
So how one interprets the bible would depend on if one is saved by works or by faith and grace, it seems. Guess you should worry about your soul because he who is guilty of breaking ONE law is guilty of breaking them all. I hoe you don't slip up and unthinkingly tie your shoelace on the Sabbath. Better to fall crossing the road and get run over by a truck than to do up your shoelace. Better yet , do not wear any shoes on the sabbath. Better to step on a syringe from a aids infected drug addict on your morning stroll through the park than to wear shoes on the sabbath. In fact better to stay in bed until the sabbath is over.
 

Wall

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2013
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So how one interprets the bible would depend on if one is saved by works or by faith and grace, it seems.
Nope. You are saved by grace through faith alone. It is a free gift


REV.14 [12] Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD, AND THE FAITH OF JESUS.

But, to whom is this free gift givin
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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The indwelling Spirit of Christ is who has made the Law obsolete. Under grace Jesus is Himself the divine directive in our lives, who guides and leads us from within…..and He is more than able.
Yes,
GALATIANS 5:18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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So how one interprets the bible would depend on if one is saved by works or by faith and grace, it seems. Guess you should worry about your soul because he who is guilty of breaking ONE law is guilty of breaking them all. I hoe you don't slip up and unthinkingly tie your shoelace on the Sabbath. Better to fall crossing the road and get run over by a truck than to do up your shoelace. Better yet , do not wear any shoes on the sabbath. Better to step on a syringe from a aids infected drug addict on your morning stroll through the park than to wear shoes on the sabbath. In fact better to stay in bed until the sabbath is over.
To me, the bible must be read with the help of the Spirit in order to get the proper sense of it
 
Jul 12, 2012
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Keeping the Sabbath is not works, in fact it is rest! Keeping the Sabbath the way Jesus kept it, is the way we should keep it. We should follow Him! Did He keep Sabbath? Yes He did. Did Paul? Yes he did. Will we keep the Sabbath in Heaven. Yes we will. Isaiah 66. I can't take one text in Hebrews and base an entire doctrine on that one verse. Especially when Jesus gives us so many guidelines for keeping the Sabbath. I think what is difficult for people when it comes to accepting that the Sabbath is still in force, is the idea that they will have to give up some of their treasured idols, that God is asking for. Too many people are too content doing their "own pleasure" and being "self-seeking" myself included in this at times, but friends, it doesn't have to be all the time! We should strive to be like Christ in His atmosphere of Grace that He has provided. So I keep the Seventh Day Sabbath, and enjoy it. Do I keep it perfectly? No! I sadly slip up all the time, but because I mess up at times is no reason to keep striving to be more like Christ, to stop striving to follow Him. Let's think about this for a moment. Without the commandments, there's no need for repentance, and without repentance, there is no need for a change. So this perfectly explains why society is being so degraded. Jesus said it well: "Because iniquity shall abound, the love of many will grow cold." Sadly friends, you are about to see a push towards worshiping on the "spurious sabbath" by the papacy, and the whole world is getting ready to wonder after the beast, if not already starting to. You see which day you keep holy will show which God you worship. Is it Baal (the sun god) or is it Christ (The Lord of the Sabbath). You can't have it both ways. As Elijah said "How long halt ye between two opinions?" Make a choice. Will it be fruit from the ground like cain, or will it be the Lamb which is Christ. Will it be the Seventh Day Sabbath, or the first day of the week. You must make a decision there's soon to be no in-between. Choose Christ. Choose the Sabbath. Choose His Law, and Choose to be a sheep with His identity. Choose to accept His invitation, but also choose the wedding garment as well. Don't go naked. Christ's Righteousness must be "put on". This is an act that we must choose to do.
 
Jul 12, 2012
69
8
8
Keeping the Sabbath is not works, in fact it is rest! Keeping the Sabbath the way Jesus kept it, is the way we should keep it. We should follow Him! Did He keep Sabbath? Yes He did. Did Paul? Yes he did. Will we keep the Sabbath in Heaven. Yes we will. Isaiah 66. I can't take one text in Hebrews and base an entire doctrine on that one verse. Especially when Jesus gives us so many guidelines for keeping the Sabbath. I think what is difficult for people when it comes to accepting that the Sabbath is still in force, is the idea that they will have to give up some of their treasured idols, that God is asking for. Too many people are too content doing their "own pleasure" and being "self-seeking" myself included in this at times, but friends, it doesn't have to be all the time! We should strive to be like Christ in His atmosphere of Grace that He has provided. So I keep the Seventh Day Sabbath, and enjoy it. Do I keep it perfectly? No! I sadly slip up all the time, but because I mess up at times is no reason to stop striving to be more like Christ, to stop striving to follow Him. Let's think about this for a moment. Without the commandments, there's no need for repentance, and without repentance, there is no need for a change. So this perfectly explains why society is being so degraded. Jesus said it well: "Because iniquity shall abound, the love of many will grow cold." Sadly friends, you are about to see a push towards worshiping on the "spurious sabbath" by the papacy, and the whole world is getting ready to wonder after the beast, if not already starting to. You see which day you keep holy will show which God you worship. Is it Baal (the sun god) or is it Christ (The Lord of the Sabbath). You can't have it both ways. As Elijah said "How long halt ye between two opinions?" Make a choice. Will it be fruit from the ground like cain, or will it be the Lamb which is Christ. Will it be the Seventh Day Sabbath, or the first day of the week. You must make a decision there's soon to be no in-between. Choose Christ. Choose the Sabbath. Choose His Law, and Choose to be a sheep with His identity. Choose to accept His invitation, but also choose the wedding garment as well. Don't go naked. Christ's Righteousness must be "put on". This is an act that we must choose to do.
 
Jul 12, 2012
69
8
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I meant to say "No! I sadly slip up all the time, but because I mess up at times is no reason to stop striving to be more like Christ"
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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I sense a reluctance among law keeper folks to join up and live together in communities
 

KohenMatt

Senior Member
Jun 28, 2013
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I sense a reluctance among law keeper folks to join up and live together in communities
Depends on what type of "community" you're talking about.
Based on proximity to one another?
Shared beliefs and standards?
Amount of time spent with one another?
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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Depends on what type of "community" you're talking about.
Based on proximity to one another?
Shared beliefs and standards?
Amount of time spent with one another?
proximity... like Jewish people do... seems like it would make it easier to keep laws like this

18 “If any man has a stubborn and rebellious son who will not obey his father or his mother, and when they chastise him, he will not even listen to them, 19 then his father and mother shall seize him, and bring him out to the elders of his city [r]at the gateway of his hometown. 20 They shall say to the elders of his city, ‘This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey us, he is a glutton and a drunkard.’ 21 Then all the men of his city shall stone him to death; so you shall remove the evil from your midst, and all Israel will hear of it and fear.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy+21&version=NASB
 

Dan_473

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Mar 11, 2014
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also, KohenMatt, my man...

did you want to answer this question, or shall we just move on?

' The Biblical instruction is for anyone living with you and under your care.'

it is OK then to pay the neighborhood teenager to mow your lawn on the Sabbath?




' heavy, cumbersome loads'

exactly! it's very cumbersome if you don't live in an observant community
observant Jews live close together... come shabbot they all stroll to the synagogue... no need to drive... better yet a kibbutz

why the reluctance among observant gentiles to do that?
 

KohenMatt

Senior Member
Jun 28, 2013
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' The Biblical instruction is for anyone living with you and under your care.'

it is OK then to pay the neighborhood teenager to mow your lawn on the Sabbath?
No.


' heavy, cumbersome loads'

exactly! it's very cumbersome if you don't live in an observant community
observant Jews live close together... come shabbot they all stroll to the synagogue... no need to drive... better yet a kibbutz

why the reluctance among observant gentiles to do that?
Observing a Biblical Sabbath isn't cumbersome for those who make it cumbersome. There are plenty of observant gentiles who observe the Sabbath. As for your idea of community, who knows. But again, it isn't a Biblical standard.
 

KohenMatt

Senior Member
Jun 28, 2013
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proximity... like Jewish people do... seems like it would make it easier to keep laws like this

18 “If any man has a stubborn and rebellious son who will not obey his father or his mother, and when they chastise him, he will not even listen to them, 19 then his father and mother shall seize him, and bring him out to the elders of his city [r]at the gateway of his hometown. 20 They shall say to the elders of his city, ‘This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey us, he is a glutton and a drunkard.’ 21 Then all the men of his city shall stone him to death; so you shall remove the evil from your midst, and all Israel will hear of it and fear.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy+21&version=NASB
Maybe, but not necessarily.

You can make the same case for Acts 2:42-47

[FONT=&quot]They were continually devoting themselves to the apostles’ teaching and to fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]43 Everyone kept feeling a sense of awe; and many wonders and signs were taking place through the apostles. 44 And all those who had believed were together and had all things in common; 45 and they began selling their property and possessions and were sharing them with all, as anyone might have need. 46 Day by day continuing with one mind in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, they were taking their meals together with gladness and sincerity of heart,47 praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord was adding to their number day by day those who were being saved."[/FONT]
 

Wall

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2013
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And so here is the question: If you don't observe the Sabbath does it separate a person from Christ keeping them from eternal life? If you eat pork or anything else that is listed in the law of Moses as foods not to be eaten does it keep that person from being forgiven and eternal life?
We know the day that the Lord will come with fire. The Day of the Lord

ISAIAH 66 [15] For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.[16] For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many.[17] THEY THAT SANCTIFY THEMSELVES, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, EATING SWINE'S FLESH, and the abomination, and the mouse, SHALL BE CONSUMED together, saith the LORD.


Believe the Word
 

Wall

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2013
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I have told you several times that salvation does not come by keeping the law. You keep posting (and implying) that I teach that. It is a lie. Now, you can continue spread that lie. I can't stop you. But I see no need to acknowledge any of your posts unless you correct your mistake.
He can lie all he wants. No penalty. He doesnt believe in Gods law.
 

Wall

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2013
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Romans 10:1-5 (NASB)

[SUP]4 [/SUP] For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

DEUT. 30 [10] If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the Lord thy God, to KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul. [11] For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off. [12] It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, WHO SHALL GO UP FOR US TO HEAVEN, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? [13] Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? [14] But THE WORD IS VERY NIGH UNTO THEE, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.

Israel was told they were to keep Gods 10 commandments. The Word is nigh

ROMANS 10 [1] Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. [2] For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. [3] For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. [4] For CHRIST IS THE END OF THE LAW FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS to every one that believeth. [5] For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them. [6] But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, WHO SHALL ASCEND INTO HEAVEN? (that is, to bring Christ down from above:) [7] Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.) [8] But what saith it? THE WORD IS NIGH THEE, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

The Word is nigh. But Israel was ignorant at the time that they could not attain Gods righteousness by keeping the law. They did not know that Christ was the end of the law for righteousness. No matter how well they kept the 10 commandments they would fall short and be as filthy rags. The bottom line is that we as believers are still to keep Gods 10 commandments but its only by grace through faith in the shed blood of Christ that we are made righteous. His blood alone washes us clean from our short comings in keeping His law. Christ is the end of the law for righteousness.

EZEKIEL 33 [13] When I shall say to the righteous, that he shall surely live; IF HE TRUST TO HIS OWN RIGHTEOUSNESS, and commit iniquity, all his righteousnesses shall not be remembered; but for his iniquity that he hath committed, HE SHALL DIE for it. [14] Again, when I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; IF HE TURN FROM HIS SIN, AND DO THAT WHICH IS LAWFUL and right; [15] If the wicked restore the pledge, give again that he had robbed, walk in the statutes of life, without committing iniquity; he shall surely live, HE SHALL NOT DIE. [16] None of his sins that he hath committed shall be mentioned unto him: HE HATH DONE THAT WHICH IS LAWFUL AND RIGHT; HE SHALL SURELY LIVE.

Its explained more fully in Ezek.33. We are to observe to keep Gods law but we must not trust in it as a means of attaining true righteousness. Christ is the end of the law for righteousness because we will all fall short in keeping the law. Its ONLY by the blood of Christ and His grace that we shall become righteous.

ROMANS 5 [19] For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. [20] Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound: [21] That as SIN HATH REIGNED UNTO DEATH, even so might GRACE REIGN THROUGH RIGHTEOUSNESS UNTO ETERNAL LIFE by Jesus Christ our Lord.

yup
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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No.




Observing a Biblical Sabbath isn't cumbersome for those who make it cumbersome. There are plenty of observant gentiles who observe the Sabbath. As for your idea of community, who knows. But again, it isn't a Biblical standard.

why do you say that it isn't OK to pay the neighborhood teenager to mow your lawn on the Sabbath?


is it up to each observant gentile to decide what observing the Sabbath means for them? what things they'll do or not?