Pros and Cons Speaking in Tongues

[reneweddaybyday]

The manifestation of kinds of tongues is not revelation. It is inspiration.

Acts 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

The Spirit gives the utterance. The words are given by God to the believer.

What is spoken is God's responsibility. He gives the words to the believer to speak.

That the words given by God are spoken is the responsibility of the believer who is energized (given the utterance) by God.

I am not clear on what you are saying. The gift of tongues is one of the volitional gifts, meaning it is something you actually initiate. People with the gift of tongues can use the gift at any time, at will. Some people act as if the Holy Spirit overtakes them and they lose control of their mouth but if the apostle Paul told people to stop being out of order with tongues it means that the tongue speaker is in control of his or her mouth.

I am just trying to make clear that the words are given by God to the believer. Some people who claim to be speaking in tongues are just making up words and then claim to be speaking in tongues. That is not speaking in tongues. Speaking in tongues is the believer speaking words given to him/her by God.

1 Corinthians 12:11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit ...

The word worketh in 1 Cor 12:11 is the Greek word energeōwhich means "energized".

The manifestation (whether it is word of, wisdom, word of knowledge, faith, gifts of healing, working of miracles, prophecy, discerning of spirit, kinds of tongues, or interpretation of tongues) is energized by God within the believer and manifested (evidenced) in the physical realm as the believer submit s to the energizing by God.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Yes inspired(energized) by God as a revelation of God.

2Pe 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
2Pe 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time "by the will of man": but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

k. I was thinking of "revelation" as some sort of vision (like when Peter saw the vision before he went to the house of Cornelius). I think of revelation as a type of vision.

Thank you for clarifying.

 

[PaulMack]

I have been exposed to people speaking in tongues and i have witnessed people misusing tongues for their edification.

Been there, done that. Enough said.

 

[LaurenTM]

I have been exposed to people speaking in tongues and i have witnessed people misusing tongues for their edification.

Been there, done that. Enough said.

r i g h t

well that was life changing for all of us

not

the entire argument for not agreeing with scripture based on personal experience, is usually summed up by...personal experience

it is the reason for great misunderstanding, unlawful behavior and all kinds of sinful gratification and arguing

or we can simply submit to God and agree that He knows what we need and that is why He sent His Spirit to indwell the believer

 

[notuptome]

r i g h t

well that was life changing for all of us

not

the entire argument for not agreeing with scripture based on personal experience, is usually summed up by...personal experience

it is the reason for great misunderstanding, unlawful behavior and all kinds of sinful gratification and arguing

or we can simply submit to God and agree that He knows what we need and that is why He sent His Spirit to indwell the believer

God knows what we need and that is why He sent His Son to the cross of Calvary. The Holy Spirit testifies of the Son. Tongues in the NT are a testimony to Israel that they will be judged for rejecting the Messiah.

Tongues are basically a distraction for Gentiles.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Grace777x70]

Cornelius was a Gentile house and they all spoke with tongues when the Holy Spirit fell on them. The same thing for the Ephesians when Paul visited them and they spoke with tongues. Devotional prayer tongues is for today if people want it but the Lord is not going for force it on anyone.

Praying in tongues with your spirit praying and speaking mysteries to your Father is a major blessing from the Lord. I encourage people to ask the Lord Himself about it and He will lead you.

Speaking in tongues also has been shown in scripture :

1) - that we speak mysteries in the spirit to God,

2) - that we give thanks, that we bless the Lord,

3) - that we speak of His wondrous ways and acts,

4) - that we build ourselves up spiritually and

5) - that we pray God's will in people's life without our own bias thoughts being involved. Now that is a major blessing right there for sure!

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Tongues are basically a distraction for Gentiles.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

I hope/pray you do not tell that to God when He energizes the manifestation in you. You'd be missing out on a great benefit.

 

[BenFTW]

I hope/pray you do not tell that to God when He energizes the manifestation in you. You'd be missing out on a great benefit.

"Stop distracting me God, this is unnecessary." lol

 

[BenFTW]

I don't think people realize what they are saying. If the gift of tongues is something the Holy Spirit is directing through the believer (their spirit), how can you possibly say that it is unfruitful, unnecessary, and useless when God, Himself, is directing your spirit on what to pray to the Father? Think, ask and you shall receive. The Lord is directing your spirit on what it is asking for, and praying about. Things you are interceding on, and so on.

To think that nothing is happening because there is no interpretation is silly because the gift is dependent upon the Holy Spirit. So if someone is speaking in tongues, the Spirit is involved in its use (not so much over the control over it, when it happens. That is upon the tongue speaker). But the gift itself is dependent and only works through the guidance of the Holy Spirit directing it. To say nothing is happening doesn't make sense because the Lord is working through the gift as it is operating.

 

[Cee]

Prophesy reveals the secrets of peoples' hearts according to Scripture.

So you see God as a fortune teller?

The prophecy of Gods word is that all who perish apart from Christ have a place in the lake of fire that burns for ever and ever.

Ro 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Cee]

Without an experience it's tradition or religion. It's just head knowledge.

And it takes away from what Scripture actually teaches about "understanding" and "good fruit". These happen through experiencing/living the word.

And our interpretation of Scripture whether we like it or not, very often is biased by our experiences. Many of the comments in the thread testify to this.

OK at least you have a position. You discount 1 Cor 13:8 but you have a position.

I would say that believing what is in the word of God is sufficient. Experience is very subjective whereas Gods word is unchangeable and eternal.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[BenFTW]

Prophesy reveals the secrets of peoples' hearts according to Scripture.

This must be a topic the Lord wants me to study because this is the third time this week someone has brought up prophecy and not mentioned it as actually being prophetic (of the future) but either as wisdom for current circumstances, secrets of people's hearts (now), and something else. Each explanation is void of forthtelling (causing something to happen, such as Elijah and the dry bones "Prophesy to these bones") or foretelling (speaking of the future and/or possible outcomes to actions taken unless there be repentance). I am like, "VVhat in the world Holy Spirit!? Have people forgotten the use of this gift?" lol

 

[Cee]

Amen. And it's important to remember that while Paul wished we all would speak in tongues, he also said he'd rather we didn't do it than do it wrong.

Paul would rather we all prophesy and build up the church.
Instead of only building ourselves up and not pursuing love for others around us.

Paul also brings up doing things in order. I think this really shows the heart of his message. Instead of trying to control the gifts, he is showing the Corinthians what it looks like to operate with them from a place of love. He goes on to say, look if you prophesy, you'll build up the church and unbelievers will know God is among you. Tongues is good and don't forbid it. But around called out ones (church) I'd rather you prophesy.

The conversation of tongues I believe should contain also a conversation about prophesy since Paul contrasted the two often.

 

[Cee]

We can take this offline if you want...

But from what I understand by Holy Spirit. Prophesy is for building people up. We call them out according to their identity in Christ. This doesn't take away forth-telling for a few reasons...

1. God doesn't do something without revealing it to his prophets.
2. Our tongues contain the power of life and death.
3. Jesus only said what the Father was saying...
4. James talks about "bridling" our tongues to steer the entire ship...
5. Pursuing love is akin to believing all things...

But at it's core I believe prophesy is knowing people by the Spirit not by the carnal. Its deeply linked to unity with Christ and experiental encounters with the Living God.

This must be a topic the Lord wants me to study because this is the third time this week someone has brought up prophecy and not mentioned it as actually being prophetic (of the future) but either as wisdom for current circumstances, secrets of people's hearts (now), and something else. Each explanation is void of forthtelling (causing something to happen, such as Elijah and the dry bones "Prophesy to these bones") or foretelling (speaking of the future and/or possible outcomes to actions taken unless there be repentance). I am like, "VVhat in the world Holy Spirit!? Have people forgotten the use of this gift?" lol

 

[LaurenTM]

God knows what we need and that is why He sent His Son to the cross of Calvary. The Holy Spirit testifies of the Son. Tongues in the NT are a testimony to Israel that they will be judged for rejecting the Messiah.

Tongues are basically a distraction for Gentiles.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

I wish you would think of a new objection...this one needs a wheelchair and lots of therapy

and even then, it is not going to have legs

 

[BenFTW]

Paul would rather we all prophesy and build up the church.
Instead of only building ourselves up and not pursuing love for others around us.

Paul also brings up doing things in order. I think this really shows the heart of his message. Instead of trying to control the gifts, he is showing the Corinthians what it looks like to operate with them from a place of love. He goes on to say, look if you prophesy, you'll build up the church and unbelievers will know God is among you. Tongues is good and don't forbid it. But around called out ones (church) I'd rather you prophesy.

The conversation of tongues I believe should contain also a conversation about prophesy since Paul contrasted the two often.

I think they were contrasted because the gift of tongues itself is the Lord speaking through a person when it is interpreted and so is prophecy something that the Lord grants and is speaking through. For that matter, tongues themselves can be prophetic because God can speak a prophecy through tongues and give it in the interpretation.

This is why the apostle Paul said that prophecy is greater than tongues except there be an interpreter. VVith an interpreter tongues can be just as edifying because it is the Lord speaking (and He can use wisdom, knowledge, and prophecy as He speaks through the tongues and interpretation). It isn't something to be taken lightly, the Lord is speaking. You know?

 

[LaurenTM]

so, undergrace, are you a cessationist?

God knows what we need and that is why He sent His Son to the cross of Calvary. The Holy Spirit testifies of the Son. Tongues in the NT are a testimony to Israel that they will be judged for rejecting the Messiah.

Tongues are basically a distraction for Gentiles.

For the cause of Christ
Roger​

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UnderGrace likes this.

 

[BenFTW]

We can take this offline if you want...

But from what I understand by Holy Spirit. Prophesy is for building people up. We call them out according to their identity in Christ. This doesn't take away forth-telling for a few reasons...

1. God doesn't do something without revealing it to his prophets.
2. Our tongues contain the power of life and death.
3. Jesus only said what the Father was saying...
4. James talks about "bridling" our tongues to steer the entire ship...
5. Pursuing love is akin to believing all things...

But at it's core I believe prophesy is knowing people by the Spirit not by the carnal. Its deeply linked to unity with Christ and experiental encounters with the Living God.

I see what you are saying, and yes, prophecy can be used in that way. Also too though, beyond identity, prophecy can really be just that, prophecy. A telling of whats to come but that sharing of the prophetic is meant to edify and exhort the person. To give them hope and encourage them. It isn't just a matter of identity, of who a person is to become but also to encourage them and exhort them of things to come.

 

[Cee]

I definitely agree with this. And I would file this under experiential encounters with the Living God.

The only idea I would add is that encouraging (building up) and exhorting (stirring up) are focusing on the person. The word of knowledge many times connects to a person's heart, but the prophetic connects them to God's heart. My goal is to leave the person closer connected with the Living God.

Knowing things about a person that you can't know shows them God is among you, Scripture calls this the secrets of their heart. And when they know God among you the prophetic is you sharing what God is saying to them. Of course all of this needs to be in complete alignment with Scripture because Holy Spirit doesn't contradict Himself.

Many times I've shared Scriptures with people, but said it in a way that He tailors to their current life. And it's really cool to see how He uses it.

As far as tongues vs prophesy: We know 1 Co 12, 13, were written for the big build up on 1 Co 14. Because he tells us this, therefore I show you a more excellent way... what is this excellent way? Pursue love and desire spiritual gifts. Not either or, but both.

What's interesting about interpreting tongues is, he doesn't talk about it besides connecting it to prophesy. So I actually think prophesy is interpreting tongues. And I think that blows a lot of people's misunderstandings out of the water. It's not necessarily only, okay you see that guy in the white shirt over there? Here's what he's sayin' in tongues...

I think Paul's driving force is that we would do all things decently and in order. That means ALL things need to be done. And then we can focus on what they look like in order through the way of love.

C.

I see what you are saying, and yes, prophecy can be used in that way. Also too though, beyond identity, prophecy can really be just that, prophecy. A telling of whats to come but that sharing of the prophetic is meant to edify and exhort the person. To give them hope and encourage them. It isn't just a matter of identity, of who a person is to become but also to encourage them and exhort them of things to come.

 

[Grace777x70]

The major focus of New testament and New Covenant prophecy is this:

1 Corinthians 14:3 (NASB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] But one who prophesies speaks to men for edification and exhortation and consolation.

Now how all this manifests itself is most likely different depending on the person and the circumstance - but they are to originate from God who is inside of us in the person of the Holy Spirit.

Praying in the spirit helps to make us more sensitive to the things of the Spirit and to know what He wants to be done. We prophecy in part only because we are in these earthen vessels and have our minds to block some things as we see imperfectly now.