So what about the fourth commandment?

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KohenMatt

Senior Member
Jun 28, 2013
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why do you say that it isn't OK to pay the neighborhood teenager to mow your lawn on the Sabbath?


is it up to each observant gentile to decide what observing the Sabbath means for them? what things they'll do or not?
Again, what does the Bible say?
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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Maybe, but not necessarily.

You can make the same case for Acts 2:42-47

[FONT="][I]They were continually devoting themselves to the apostles’ teaching and to fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer.[/I][/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#000000][FONT="]43 Everyone kept feeling a sense of awe; and many wonders and signs were taking place through the apostles. 44 And all those who had believed were together and had all things in common; 45 and they began selling their property and possessions and were sharing them with all, as anyone might have need. 46 Day by day continuing with one mind in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, they were taking their meals together with gladness and sincerity of heart,47 praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord was adding to their number day by day those who were being saved."[/FONT]

it wouldn't be the same case, because stoning is commanded, but selling one's house isn't.
 

KohenMatt

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Jun 28, 2013
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it wouldn't be the same case, because stoning is commanded, but selling one's house isn't.
I was referring to your thoughts on community. Not the command.

Regardless, what do you think God was trying to communicate when He gave that command?
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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No.




Observing a Biblical Sabbath isn't cumbersome for those who make it cumbersome. There are plenty of observant gentiles who observe the Sabbath. As for your idea of community, who knows. But again, it isn't a Biblical standard.

'As for your idea of community, who knows. But again, it isn't a Biblical standard.'


is a community necessary to properly conduct a stoning? or at least helpful?

if three people attempt to stone another person who is in good physical shape, it could end badly... they might start throwing them back.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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Again, what does the Bible say?

I think the Bible says we should fulfill all Sabbath requirements this way

GALATIANS 5:14 For the whole law is fulfilled in one word: You shall love your neighbor as yourself.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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Oops left out this part

the bible doesn't talk about the neighborhood teenager mowing your lawn on the Sabbath.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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I was referring to your thoughts on community. Not the command.

Regardless, what do you think God was trying to communicate when He gave that command?

that certain offenses required stoning
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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But why the son? Why why for rebellion? Why did God feel the need to use this specific command?

DEUTERONOMY 21:21 Then all the men of the city shall stone him to death with stones. So you shall purge the evil from your midst, and all Israel shall hear, and fear.

so, to purge the evil from your midst.
 

KohenMatt

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Jun 28, 2013
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DEUTERONOMY 21:21 Then all the men of the city shall stone him to death with stones. So you shall purge the evil from your midst, and all Israel shall hear, and fear.

so, to purge the evil from your midst.
OK, good. God was setting up instructions on how to live in the midst of a holy God.

Now that we have Jesus' sacrifice, that kind of disobedience has already been atoned for, thus there is no need to physically act out that command and consequence.

But, the principle still remains. Disobedient children (us) who continue in our rebellion to our father (God) are worthy of death. Praise God, that consequence has already been taken care of!
 

Dan_473

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Mar 11, 2014
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OK, good. God was setting up instructions on how to live in the midst of a holy God.

Now that we have Jesus' sacrifice, that kind of disobedience has already been atoned for, thus there is no need to physically act out that command and consequence.

But, the principle still remains. Disobedient children (us) who continue in our rebellion to our father (God) are worthy of death. Praise God, that consequence has already been taken care of!

good! so if we can find a workaround for any commandment, then we don't need to physically act out that commandment.
 

KohenMatt

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Jun 28, 2013
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good! so if we can find a workaround for any commandment, then we don't need to physically act out that commandment.
As I've ALWAYS said, every commandment can be lived out physically AND/OR spiritually.
 

Dan_473

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Mar 11, 2014
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As I've ALWAYS said, every commandment can be lived out physically AND/OR spiritually.

I'm confident that with some time, I could figure out ways to live out every commandment spiritually

GALATIANS 5:14 For the whole law is fulfilled in one word: You shall love your neighbor as yourself.
 

Wall

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2013
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I think the Bible says we should fulfill all Sabbath requirements this way

GALATIANS 5:14 For the whole law is fulfilled in one word: You shall love your neighbor as yourself.
Dan, your tryin to tell me we need not keep Gods 10 commandments because we are givin a new testament commandment “to love one another”. Problem is the new testament scriptures tell us how to “love one another”.


1JOHN 5 [2] By this WE KNOW THAT WE LOVE THE CHILDREN OF GOD, when we love God, and keep his commandments. [3] For THIS IS THE LOVE OF GOD, THAT WE KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS: and his commandments are not grievous.

To love the children of God, we are to keep the commandments

2JOHN1 [5] And now I beseech thee, lady, not as though I wrote a new commandment unto thee, but that which we had from the beginning, that WE LOVE ONE ANOTHER.[6] And THIS IS LOVE, THAT WE WALK AFTER HIS COMMANDMENTS. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.

Love one another. Keep the commandments

JAMES 2 [8] If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, THOU SHALT LOVE THY NEIGHBOUR AS THYSELF, ye do well: [9] But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.[10] For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.[11] For he that said, DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, said also, DO NOT KILL. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.

ROMANS 13 [8] Owe no man any thing, but to LOVE ONE ANOTHER: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.[9] For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, THOU SHALT NOT STEAL, Thou shalt not bear false witness, THOU SHALT NOT COVET; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.[10] Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

I decided to show the scripture of James 2 and Romans 13 which explain to us how we are to show our love for one another because im sure the next thing i hear is that it is not the 10 commandments being mentioned. But as you can see in these scriptures, adultry killing, stealing, bearing false witness, covetness are mentioned. And i suppose i will hear you say that since the “keeping of the sabbath” is not mentioned or “thou shalt have no other gods before me" is not mentioned these commandments can be ignored.
 

Wall

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2013
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I'm confident that with some time, I could figure out ways to live out every commandment spiritually

GALATIANS 5:14 For the whole law is fulfilled in one word: You shall love your neighbor as yourself.
MATT.22 [35] Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying, [36] Master, which is the great commandment in the law?[37] Jesus said unto him, THOU SHALT LOVE THE LORD THY GOD WITH ALL THY HEART, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.[38] This is the first and great commandment.[39] And the second is like unto it, THOU SHALT LOVE THY NEIGHBOUR AS THYSELF.[40] On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Why do you believe that we no longer need keep Gods commandments because of what Jesus said in Matthew?

LEV.19 [17] Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.[18] Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but THOU SHALT LOVE THY NEIGHBOUR AS THYSELF: I am the LORD.

(thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself) Jesus is quoting scripture from the old testament. Do you agree that the people who lived in old testament times were under the 10 commandments. Of course they were. So why when Jesus quotes old testament scripture do you think the 10 commandments are now done away with?
 
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RobbyEarl

Guest
As I've ALWAYS said, every commandment can be lived out physically AND/OR spiritually.
Well no OT person could keep it and no NT person can keep it, which is why we need the Cross. Otherwise we don't need it.
 

KohenMatt

Senior Member
Jun 28, 2013
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Well no OT person could keep it and no NT person can keep it, which is why we need the Cross. Otherwise we don't need it.
No one can keep it perfectly. But the Law was never intended to save. Only Jesus' sacrifice was.

So with that being said, why did God say He gave the Law in first place? What was it needed for?
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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Dan, your tryin to tell me we need not keep Gods 10 commandments because we are givin a new testament commandment “to love one another”. Problem is the new testament scriptures tell us how to “love one another”.


1JOHN 5 [2] By this WE KNOW THAT WE LOVE THE CHILDREN OF GOD, when we love God, and keep his commandments. [3] For THIS IS THE LOVE OF GOD, THAT WE KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS: and his commandments are not grievous.

To love the children of God, we are to keep the commandments

2JOHN1 [5] And now I beseech thee, lady, not as though I wrote a new commandment unto thee, but that which we had from the beginning, that WE LOVE ONE ANOTHER.[6] And THIS IS LOVE, THAT WE WALK AFTER HIS COMMANDMENTS. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.

Love one another. Keep the commandments

JAMES 2 [8] If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, THOU SHALT LOVE THY NEIGHBOUR AS THYSELF, ye do well: [9] But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.[10] For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.[11] For he that said, DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, said also, DO NOT KILL. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.

ROMANS 13 [8] Owe no man any thing, but to LOVE ONE ANOTHER: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.[9] For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, THOU SHALT NOT STEAL, Thou shalt not bear false witness, THOU SHALT NOT COVET; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.[10] Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

I decided to show the scripture of James 2 and Romans 13 which explain to us how we are to show our love for one another because im sure the next thing i hear is that it is not the 10 commandments being mentioned. But as you can see in these scriptures, adultry killing, stealing, bearing false witness, covetness are mentioned. And i suppose i will hear you say that since the “keeping of the sabbath” is not mentioned or “thou shalt have no other gods before me" is not mentioned these commandments can be ignored.

here's a way to look at it

some drivers do fine with Drive safely

others need a speed limit



my spirit is at rest with the idea that

GALATIANS 5:14 For the whole law is fulfilled in one word: You shall love your neighbor as yourself.

but others might benefit from more spelled-out rules
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
9,054
1,051
113
MATT.22 [35] Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying, [36] Master, which is the great commandment in the law?[37] Jesus said unto him, THOU SHALT LOVE THE LORD THY GOD WITH ALL THY HEART, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.[38] This is the first and great commandment.[39] And the second is like unto it, THOU SHALT LOVE THY NEIGHBOUR AS THYSELF.[40] On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Why do you believe that we no longer need keep Gods commandments because of what Jesus said in Matthew?

LEV.19 [17] Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.[18] Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but THOU SHALT LOVE THY NEIGHBOUR AS THYSELF: I am the LORD.

(thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself) Jesus is quoting scripture from the old testament. Do you agree that the people who lived in old testament times were under the 10 commandments. Of course they were. So why when Jesus quotes old testament scripture do you think the 10 commandments are now done away with?

the law is still in effect for those who are not led by the spirit

GALATIANS 5:18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
 
J

jamesg1951

Guest
Nope. You are saved by grace through faith alone. It is a free gift


REV.14 [12] Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD, AND THE FAITH OF JESUS.

But, to whom is this free gift givin
HE THAT HATH MY COMMANDMENTS, AND KEEPETH THEM,

Apparently you have to KEEP the commandments to be saved. That would suggest it is your good works that save you.