Honoring a dying person's wishes

[Miri]

It sounds as if your brother is really struggling. Just for a moment think
about what is going through his mind, he is about to lose his mum and he is
clearly struggling with that.

You all probably are but arguing isn't going to be helpful.

Is your mum a Christian, is she able to think for herself, does she understand
the implications. Is there a hospital chaplain who you can all talk to or a
bereavement councillor?


It's time for you all to make peace with each other and support each other, to
understand the different difficulties and emotions you are all facing and face them
together.

The last thing you all need is for there to be resentment about these important
decisions. Get some help for the family to all deal with this.

So sorry you are going through this.

 

[Depleted]

Thank you all so much. We have been down the Ephesians route for some time with no response. We are now at the Matthew 18:17 point of If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector.

Mom does have a health care directive but dad won't let anyone see it. Even as his estate executor he wouldn't discuss it with me, that's why I stepped away from being executor and am now advising my older brother to do so as well. I'm pretty sure she stated in it that she doesn't want artificial life support. We did look into whether a feeding tube is considered life support, if it is the person's sole and only source of nutrition then it is considered artificial life support. The difference would be if the person can still eat but not enough to sustain them, then it is considered an adjunct and not life support. She has been told she can never eat or drink anything by mouth again because she aspirates her food and that leads to a chronic pneumonia.

Depleted, I understand about the starvation thing but after 24 to 36 hours one stops feeling hungry. She's already at that point since she hasn't had anything to eat or drink in the last 5 days. She does say she's thirsty and she is dehydrated but they can fix that with an IV. And a DNR is a different issue. A DNR states that should she stop breathing or her heart stop beating, she is not to be resuscitated. It is totally different from a health care directive which addresses artificial life support.

My dad and little brother do share a demon - I've seen it wrapped around them like a winter coat. Sadly you can't free someone of a demon they don't acknowledge or want to be free of. They both profess to be Christians but that's just talk. Their lives wholly indicate that they are not.

Her favorite meal is home made tacos and she has asked for that as a last meal. Once she gets settled in the nursing home I'm going to make her some and sneak them in to her. It will make her very happy, and maybe she'll aspirate enough to re-inflame the pneumonia and that will take her.

Thank you all for your caring and concern. We may bicker in the BDF, but at heart I know you all are awesome representatives of Christ and I am so glad to have your support!

John hadn't eaten for months before he was aware he wasn't eating. (He was awake for a couple of those months, but remembers so little of it.) Yeah, it freaked me that he wasn't hungry either. But, it's not that. It's how quickly lack of the feed bag weakened him. I could read his expressions before he could talk. (Ventilator and total atrophy, so it took him a while to talk too.) That wasn't the look of someone with the flu. You know that "I don't feel good" look on someone who has the flu? It wasn't that. It was the look he gets when he aches all over with his CFS. His muscles and joints hurt. His hair hurt! It was ache pain even worse than the flu. (And, again. He's too good with pain. He probably had that heart attack for 4 days before he thought it was bad enough to go to the hospital. So, pain has to be really bad before there is an expression to read.)

I like the idea of the tacos. The only reason I didn't go for food before they fed him was I was afraid I'd be kicked out and couldn't see him again until he was ready to come home. Go for that!

But, just so you know, solid food is less likely to go down the bronchial tube than liquids. It's thin liquids that is more likely to cause aspiration/pneumonia. Coffee is more likely to cause pneumonia than tacos. And she's thirsty because our mouths are usually wet because we're drinking and eating through the day, stimulating the salivary glands. She's not dehydrated, but her mouth is dry. What does she like to drink? (Ever notice when we talk last meals, we rarely mention what we're going to drink?) If she's not going to get better, but only worse, and she's ready to go, bring what she likes to drink and eat. (Hubby's stepfather was dying with liver damage from drinking too much and prostate cancer. He had a couple of weeks left at best -- and he did die two weeks later -- but the hospital didn't let him drink beer or smoke his cigars to fight the cancer they couldn't fight. So hubby brought him in a six-pack and some stogies. It was in the days when hospitals let patients smoke, but not in their beds, so his stepfather went into the bathroom and enjoyed a cigar and beer.)

Also, the higher she's sitting up, the less likely the aspiration. If she can sit 90 degrees, aspiration is a lot less likely than if she's below 30 degrees. (Hospital beds. Who'da thought they'd think to tell degrees on the side of the bed?) John's hips were killing him, when they had him sit up above 30 degrees, yet they fed him for 90 minutes each feeding, (so he wouldn't get nauseous, but it was the feed itself that made him vomit) and tried to make sure he was at 45 degrees. At one point, they were trying to make him stay at 70 degrees. In the ICU, they only raised him to 30 degrees, so when they left, I lowered him down to 30 degrees.

I am all for protecting our loved ones, but once it is more about quantity over quality or hospitals covering their butts, it's time to think of our loved one first. But, keep bringing her food, because once she eats, she's back to the first day on that "they're not hungry after awhile" thing. Hunger will be there again.

 

[notuptome]

Keep yourself in check. You mom's suffering is known to Jesus. Jesus has already endured the pain and can share with your mom in these last days.

Don't allow your emotions to destroy your relationship with your brother or your dad. Your ministry is to be comforter not an accuser. Share your pain with them and comfort them with the certain hope that mom will be with the Lord she longs to see. all of you will miss her but you will be reunited with her in the eternal kingdom of God.

1Co 15:55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[RickyZ]

Just got back from visiting her. The liquid they are giving her thru the feeding tube is just sitting in her stomach and very little is passing thru to her intestines. It seems the tube is going to prove to be a moot issue as her whole system is just shutting down.

Her nurse today couldn't believe that she is being treated this way. She agrees that mom should be in hospice having her last wishes honored.

I wish there could be peace in the family, but the cold hard fact of the matter is that dad and his demon spawn child just aren't going to let that happen. I'm not fighting them anymore, I know it's useless and at this point silence is the best (and really only) response. God will deal with them.

Now as for my older brother... If you see a mushroom cloud rising from the Los Angeles region, that'll be him.

 

[RickyZ]

Keep yourself in check. You mom's suffering is known to Jesus. Jesus has already endured the pain and can share with your mom in these last days.

Don't allow your emotions to destroy your relationship with your brother or your dad. Your ministry is to be comforter not an accuser. Share your pain with them and comfort them with the certain hope that mom will be with the Lord she longs to see. all of you will miss her but you will be reunited with her in the eternal kingdom of God.

1Co 15:55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Thanks Roger. Actually the relationship was destroyed a long time ago. It came to pass many years ago when, after I had given my dad an opening and chance to change things, he told me that I could either learn to get on my knees and kiss the little lord matt's @ss like he does, or I could stay the h3ll away. I only kneel before one person. And little lord matt is not that person.

 

[Joidevivre]

When I worked at the hospital, all the doctors and nurses called pneumonia the "old person's friend". It is the most painless way to die. Usually the patients went into a deep sleep like coma state as their lungs filled up. And then just were gone.

When a person is in their 90s and in bad health, it is good for a family not to fight for treatment of pneumonia because it just prolongs the death and nothing really changes.

Also at the end of life, a person begins to shun food. This is natural since things are shutting down one by one in their body. Food is not necessarily good for them. Their body knows. And then the families begin to force feed because they don't want to be responsible for hastening the death. I would not even force feed at this point. The hospices in Calif. do not take any aggressive measures such as tubes. They let the dying come about naturally. But they do make comfortable the person. And that includes swabbing the lips and mouth with water. But when they do not want food anymore, it is a natural function in the course of dying.

 

[RickyZ]

It's only a matter of time now. They are no longer 'tubing' her or fighting the pneumonia. She's pretty much comatose, and her breathing is very shallow and full of spells of apnea. Honestly, if she makes it thru the night I'd be surprised.

God bless you mom. May we both dance before God soon!

 

[Depleted]

Thanks Roger. Actually the relationship was destroyed a long time ago. It came to pass many years ago when, after I had given my dad an opening and chance to change things, he told me that I could either learn to get on my knees and kiss the little lord matt's @ss like he does, or I could stay the h3ll away. I only kneel before one person. And little lord matt is not that person.

I used to feel like you with a brother. He has done some things to me that he should have a criminal record for doing. He hasn't done things when he should have. And, even after having been told what it felt like to me, and to the others he's done it to, he is just as clueless of his sins as he always has been. When Dad was first diagnosed with dementia, I vowed that when he passed that would be the last contact I ever had with that brother.

He hasn't changed at all. BUT God has been chipping away on me for a good decade now. (Dad was diagnosed then. He was committed last December.) My brother hasn't changed at all, but God has graced me to love him just the same. (It's so weird not to have that gagging rage in me I used to have just talking about him. I didn't think that would ever happen. I mean it never dawned on me to think it even. I thought I was better just for not planning on not getting back at him.)

Never underestimate God's abilities even to change us to forgive people that don't deserve to be forgiven. Something about realizing how much he had to do to forgive us for being equally as pigheaded.

Next miracle? Hubby feeling the same way about that brother.

I'll continue to pray that God give you and your family peace, and that he brings his daughter home quickly.

 

[notuptome]

Thanks Roger. Actually the relationship was destroyed a long time ago. It came to pass many years ago when, after I had given my dad an opening and chance to change things, he told me that I could either learn to get on my knees and kiss the little lord matt's @ss like he does, or I could stay the h3ll away. I only kneel before one person. And little lord matt is not that person.

How will they see Christ if they do not see Christ in you?

It is a hard thing to watch people related to you die and go out into a Christ-less eternity.

Ro 14:11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Fenner]

I'm sorry Ricky. This waiting and watching someone die is tough. I wish you all peace.

 

[blue_ladybug]

*hugs Ricky*

 

[RickyZ]

How will they see Christ if they do not see Christ in you?

It is a hard thing to watch people related to you die and go out into a Christ-less eternity.

Ro 14:11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

We did the Christian thing for years - approaching him in love with correction. Since he has steadfastly refused correction, we now do the Christian thing of shunning him like a tax collector. We no longer fight and put on a display.

 

[LiJo]

Praying for comfort and peace for you and your family during this difficult time Ricky.

 

[AuntieAnt]

We did the Christian thing for years - approaching him in love with correction. Since he has steadfastly refused correction, we now do the Christian thing of shunning him like a tax collector. We no longer fight and put on a display.

Perhaps the Los Angeles Department of the Aging could send someone from their agency to look into this critical situation for you and help determine what is best for your dear mother.

I'm praying for your precious mom, for you and your family. ♥

 

[notuptome]

We did the Christian thing for years - approaching him in love with correction. Since he has steadfastly refused correction, we now do the Christian thing of shunning him like a tax collector. We no longer fight and put on a display.

Jesus went to the cross for them as well as you. Jesus knew they would reject Him but He still went to the cross for them. There is nothing Christian about shunning any one especially family.

I know it's not easy. I have had family tell me to leave and not come back. They died apart from Christ. Sadly there is nothing more that can be done for them.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[RickyZ]

This morning, my mom awakes to find herself transformed, in the twinkling of her eye, and standing before the Throne of God. What an incredible journey she has now begun! God bless you mom, I cannot wait to join you in paradise!

Next year, in Jerusalem!

 

[blue_ladybug]

I'm sorry for your loss, Ricky. I am glad that God took her quickly and she didn't have to suffer for however more longer. *big hugs*

 

[RickyZ]

Thank you. Like I've said before, I'm the wrong guy to talk with about dying. I'm a Philippians 1:21 kind of guy - For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain.

 

[Miri]

Hi Ricky, praying for you and your family.

 

[oldethennew]

GBY and yours precious one,,,

our prayer for you is to allow all bitterness and resentment go along with your Mother, to where
it no longer matters...
for you know it is God's will for her to rest in peace, at any cost...