Questions about the bible !

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tanakh:"This is where I am going to be shot down in flames but I don't care. Truth when applied to the Bible should not be confused with facts. What was considered factual in the period when the OT and NT books were written was very different from what we regard as factual now. Then all disease and disability was seen as judgement against sin because germs Genetics and viruses were unknown, as were natural disasters which we still call acts of God. Atoms, Galaxies and a multitude of things we take for granted were also unknown. oil lamps were the only source of light at night, animals were the only means of transport and remained so until the early 19th Century.

To try to interpret the world we live in today through the eyes of people who lived Centuries ago is a futile exercise. The contents of the Bible are written to reveal the human condition and how it can be overcome because that is the only thing that has remained the same throughout history. So trying to justify stoning rebellious Sons to death, killing witches, keeping slaves, smashing Babylonion babies heads against rocks and allowing Israelites to rape Median virgins as in Num 31:17-18 because it is thought that every single word is true is an insult to God. As the song says in Porgy and Bess ''It aint necessarily so''"

I am arguingwith only the people that answered.:(
People that believe God created Adam and Eve 6000 years ago from dirt, people that believe the story of Moses, the exodus and the plagues of Egypt really happen, people that believe the story of Sodom and Gomorrah and God turning Lot's wife in a pillar of salt really happen, people that believe there was a global flood ~4000 years ago, people that believe the story of Uzzah, people that believe that the resurrection of Jesus is proven historical fact, people that do not even consider the possibility that this stories maybe are embellished or invented by the Israelites .
 
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Tanakh what do you think about the concept of hell, lake of fire expressed in the bible?
What's your opinion , why do you think non-moral evils that affect
those that are not rational and do not have moral competence exist?
What's your opinion about all the subspecies of humans(Homo Erectus,Homo Neaderthalis,etc)?
 
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Tanakh :"Truth when applied to the Bible should not be confused with facts. What was considered factual in the period when the OT and NT books were written was very different from what we regard as factual now."


But it is said the bible is written with inspiration from this divine omnipotent, omniscient, perfectly good being who knows all .So if
God divinely influenced the human authors of the Scriptures there is not excuse for why are so many wrong things and immoral things .
Therefore the conclusion is that the bible is not inspired by God.
 
Tanakh :"Truth when applied to the Bible should not be confused with facts. What was considered factual in the period when the OT and NT books were written was very different from what we regard as factual now."


But it is said the bible is written with inspiration from this divine omnipotent, omniscient, perfectly good being who knows all .So if
God divinely influenced the human authors of the Scriptures there is not excuse for why are so many wrong things and immoral things . Therefore the conclusion is that the bible is not inspired by God.

Hello alexxcjro,

Right off the top of my head, I would have to say that is a false assumption. First of all you would have to explain all of the prophecies written in the OT regarding Christ and their recorded, literal fulfillment in the NT. Regarding the word of God, his word states the following:

"All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work."

"We also have the prophetic message as something completely reliable, and you will do well to pay attention to it, as to a light shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts. Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet’s own interpretation of things. For prophecy never had its origin in the human will, but prophets, though human, spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit."

So if God divinely influenced the human authors of the Scriptures there is not excuse for why are so many wrong things and immoral things .


The above doesn't negate the existence of God and the legitimacy of His word. Sin entered the world, remember? It is mankind that is wrong and immoral, not God. His words are eternal life.
 
Ahwatukee :"Right off the top of my head, I would have to say that is a false assumption. First of all you would have to explain all of the prophecies written in the OT regarding Christ and their recorded, literal fulfillment in the NT. Regarding the word of God, his word states the following:
"All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work."
"We also have the prophetic message as something completely reliable, and you will do well to pay attention to it, as to a light shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts. Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet’s own interpretation of things. For prophecy never had its origin in the human will, but prophets, though human, spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit." "

-Even though God is all loving, therefore loves all humans equally he chose a specific group of humans, the Israelites that he showed favor over all the other humans. Why?
-Even though God is omniscient, omnipotent therefore with perfect knowledge, perfect efficiency, infinite wisdom he chose to spread his message through one of the most small, undeveloped civilization and culture of the time: the Israelites. Why? Wouldn’t have been more efficient to choose the Chinese, being a more powerful, big and developed civilization at the time?
-Even though God’s middle-knowledge and foreknowledge told him that the future population of the earth would be mostly of Chinese and Indians he didn’t chose any of them to convey his message. Why?
-Even though God is omniscient, omnipotent therefore with perfect knowledge and perfect efficiency and infinite wisdom he didn’t chose to reveal himself personally to every person that lived, lives and ever will live; which would have made 100% sure that all people know that he exists and receive the message, but chose to do this through a book that would later be translated to all the world languages that he created in the first place when he confused the people that were building the tower of Babylon, leading eventually to errors, changes in the text and therefore spreading the wrong message. Why?
-Even though God’s middle-knowledge and foreknowledge told him that this would lead to the different interpretations by the faulty humans, to the many different denominations and quarrel among them about who knows the truth, the true path to achieve salvation, and to billions not believing or not getting reached by those who spread the gospel; he chose to do this anyway. Why?
 
Tanakh what do you think about the concept of hell, lake of fire expressed in the bible?
What's your opinion , why do you think non-moral evils that affect
those that are not rational and do not have moral competence exist?
What's your opinion about all the subspecies of humans(Homo Erectus,Homo Neaderthalis,etc)?

I believe that humanity has a limited concept of God who is beyond anything we can imagine. That concept is necessarily restricted by what we experience and by the limitations of language. The Old Testament is a record of how the Hebrews
explained the world and their life experiences. It is also a record of how God used those who wrote it to reveal himself
within those experiences. There are many forms of writing used but to treat everything said as literal and factual results in misunderstanding the purpose of the scriptures. The Bible is a spiritual book. The main message is that we were created to be Sons of God and were made in his image. That image and Sonship was broken and Christ came to restore it. Whether one believes in the details Eden story are literal or not the fact remains that humanity is not one with God. Hell is separation from God forever. Before death we all have the opportunity to be in fellowship with God at death there is no longer that opportunity.

The Gospels were written to reveal Christ as our Saviour. Passages from the OT were used to reveal him as the main subject of scripture. The Holy Spirit guided the writers as to their content. The gospels are not a blow by blow account of his life and ministry but were created as teaching tools and for use as lectionaries after the split between Christians and Judaism. The Gospels were arranged in such a way that subjects followed the Jewish festivals Calendar and the weekly Synagogue readings.

The resurrection is the vital belief of Christianity. Without it the whole thing would be meaningless. The four gospel accounts vary in detail but the main point they all make is that Jesus rose from the dead and was seen by a number of people. There is no other logical explanation as to why the Disciples risked their lives carrying on as his followers if
it was invented. To go around saying he was alive when they knew he was dead would have been insane.

I don.t know enough about the humanoid remains found to form an opinion. I know the Neanderthals were intelligent.
I saw recently that what looks like some sort of structure was found in a cave that is believed to be made by them and tools have also been found. They appear to have been closely related to us in order for them to interbreed.
 
tanakh : "here is no other logical explanation as to why the Disciples risked their lives carrying on as his followers if "

Again, this assumes that everything described in the New Testament are true accounts. We simply have no basis for assuming that, especially when the books of the NT were written long after Jesus resurrected. And neither do we have any evidence either, that the disciples died for their faith and became martyrs. There simply is no confirmation of that. I could take any fictional story to draw conclusions in the same manner as Christians do.

Other things to consider:
-The followers of Jesus were Aramaic speaking peasants from Galilee who were illiterate like most of the people of the ancient world. They couldn’t read and write, they were fishermen, they didn’t went to school.
[SUP]“13 [/SUP]When they saw the courage of Peter and John and realized that they were unschooled, ordinary men, they were astonished and they took note that these men had been with Jesus.” (Acts 4:13)
-The Gospels were written in Greek, in the third person decades later after Jesus supposedly resurrected by anonymous writers who did not witness Jesus’s resurrection. They were not written by the characters John, Luke, Mathew and Mark from the bible, they are only called the gospel of John, Luke, Mathew and Mark. These stories, “the gospels” are based on oral reports that had been in circulation for decades.

Q: So what can happen to oral reports, year after year, decade after decade?
A: They get changed.

If we analyze the gospels we see discrepancies:
-John says it was witnessed by one woman. Matthew says two women. Mark says three women. Luke says it was at least five.
-Luke, Mark, and John all indicate the tomb was already open when the woman/women got there. Matthew says the tomb was closed, but an angel rolled back the boulder covering it.
-Matthew says an angel was waiting outside the tomb. Mark says a young man was inside. -Luke and John say two men/angels were inside.
-Mark and John say the man/men were sitting, while Luke indicates they were standing.

“Jesus Has Risen 28 After the Sabbath, at dawn on the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to look at the tomb.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]There was a violent earthquake, for an angel of the Lord came down from heaven and, going to the tomb, rolled back the stone and sat on it.”(Matthew 28:1-2)
Jesus Has Risen
24 On the first day of the week, very early in the morning, the women took the spices they had prepared and went to the tomb. [SUP]2 [/SUP]They found the stone rolled away from the tomb, [SUP]3 [/SUP]but when they entered, they did not find the body of the Lord Jesus. [SUP]4 [/SUP]While they were wondering about this, suddenly two men in clothes that gleamed like lightning stood beside them.”(Luke 24:1-4)
“Jesus Has Risen
16 When the Sabbath was over, Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James, and Salome bought spices so that they might go to anoint Jesus’ body. [SUP]2 [/SUP]Very early on the first day of the week, just after sunrise, they were on their way to the tomb [SUP]3 [/SUP]and they asked each other, “Who will roll the stone away from the entrance of the tomb?”
[SUP]4 [/SUP]But when they looked up, they saw that the stone, which was very large, had been rolled away. [SUP]5 [/SUP]As they entered the tomb, they saw a young man dressed in a white robe sitting on the right side, and they were alarmed.”(Mark 16:1-5)
“The Empty Tomb
20 Early on the first day of the week, while it was still dark, Mary Magdalene went to the tomb and saw that the stone had been removed from the entrance.” (John 20:1-5)

The mainstream scholarly view is that the Gospels are anonymous works, written in the third person, in a different language than that of Jesus, in distant lands, after a substantial gap of time(decades), by unknown persons, compiling, redacting, and inventing various traditions, in order to provide a narrative of Christianity’s central figure–Jesus Christ–to confirm the faith of their communities.

Who Wrote the Four Gospels of the New Testament? An Introduction to Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_reliability_of_the_Gospels


Dr. Robert M. Price’s says:
“…there are many viable explanations [for the rise of the belief that Jesus resurrected], not least Festinger’s theory of cognitive dissonance reduction, whereby more than one disappointed sect has turned defeat into zeal by means of face-saving denial. “
 
tanakh :"I don.t know enough about the humanoid remains found to form an opinion. I know the Neanderthals were intelligent.
I saw recently that what looks like some sort of structure was found in a cave that is believed to be made by them and tools have also been found. They appear to have been closely related to us in order for them to interbreed."

Do you believe that theory of evolution is a scientific fact ?
Do you believe that we evolved from one of this subspecies of humans who evolved from apes?


 
tanakh :"There is no other logical explanation as to why the Disciples risked their lives carrying on as his followers if
it was invented. To go around saying he was alive when they knew he was dead would have been insane."

There is not one single miracle, or supernatural event being proven true.
We have only testimonies from people telling us they saw Ghosts, U.F.O's, the Yeti, the Lock Nest Monsters, the resurrection of Jesus.

Logically there may be that the lock nest monster, unicorns, vampires, witches, yeti, ufo's, gods, giants, angels, demons trully exist.
Can we prove with certainty that their is not such thing as the lock nest monster, unicorns, vampires, witches, yeti, ufos, ghosts gods, giants, angels, demons etc?
No we can't .
But we can say that is highly unlikely that such things exists, because of at all the evidence gathered from our reality that says otherwise.
 
tanakh : "here is no other logical explanation as to why the Disciples risked their lives carrying on as his followers if "

Again, this assumes that everything described in the New Testament are true accounts. We simply have no basis for assuming that, especially when the books of the NT were written long after Jesus resurrected. And neither do we have any evidence either, that the disciples died for their faith and became martyrs. There simply is no confirmation of that. I could take any fictional story to draw conclusions in the same manner as Christians do.

Other things to consider:
-The followers of Jesus were Aramaic speaking peasants from Galilee who were illiterate like most of the people of the ancient world. They couldn’t read and write, they were fishermen, they didn’t went to school.
[SUP]“13 [/SUP]When they saw the courage of Peter and John and realized that they were unschooled, ordinary men, they were astonished and they took note that these men had been with Jesus.” (Acts 4:13)
-The Gospels were written in Greek, in the third person decades later after Jesus supposedly resurrected by anonymous writers who did not witness Jesus’s resurrection. They were not written by the characters John, Luke, Mathew and Mark from the bible, they are only called the gospel of John, Luke, Mathew and Mark. These stories, “the gospels” are based on oral reports that had been in circulation for decades.

Q: So what can happen to oral reports, year after year, decade after decade?
A: They get changed.

If we analyze the gospels we see discrepancies:
-John says it was witnessed by one woman. Matthew says two women. Mark says three women. Luke says it was at least five.
-Luke, Mark, and John all indicate the tomb was already open when the woman/women got there. Matthew says the tomb was closed, but an angel rolled back the boulder covering it.
-Matthew says an angel was waiting outside the tomb. Mark says a young man was inside. -Luke and John say two men/angels were inside.
-Mark and John say the man/men were sitting, while Luke indicates they were standing.

“Jesus Has Risen 28 After the Sabbath, at dawn on the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to look at the tomb.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]There was a violent earthquake, for an angel of the Lord came down from heaven and, going to the tomb, rolled back the stone and sat on it.”(Matthew 28:1-2)
Jesus Has Risen
24 On the first day of the week, very early in the morning, the women took the spices they had prepared and went to the tomb. [SUP]2 [/SUP]They found the stone rolled away from the tomb, [SUP]3 [/SUP]but when they entered, they did not find the body of the Lord Jesus. [SUP]4 [/SUP]While they were wondering about this, suddenly two men in clothes that gleamed like lightning stood beside them.”(Luke 24:1-4)
“Jesus Has Risen
16 When the Sabbath was over, Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James, and Salome bought spices so that they might go to anoint Jesus’ body. [SUP]2 [/SUP]Very early on the first day of the week, just after sunrise, they were on their way to the tomb [SUP]3 [/SUP]and they asked each other, “Who will roll the stone away from the entrance of the tomb?”
[SUP]4 [/SUP]But when they looked up, they saw that the stone, which was very large, had been rolled away. [SUP]5 [/SUP]As they entered the tomb, they saw a young man dressed in a white robe sitting on the right side, and they were alarmed.”(Mark 16:1-5)
“The Empty Tomb
20 Early on the first day of the week, while it was still dark, Mary Magdalene went to the tomb and saw that the stone had been removed from the entrance.” (John 20:1-5)

The mainstream scholarly view is that the Gospels are anonymous works, written in the third person, in a different language than that of Jesus, in distant lands, after a substantial gap of time(decades), by unknown persons, compiling, redacting, and inventing various traditions, in order to provide a narrative of Christianity’s central figure–Jesus Christ–to confirm the faith of their communities.

Who Wrote the Four Gospels of the New Testament? An Introduction to Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_reliability_of_the_Gospels


Dr. Robert M. Price’s says:
“…there are many viable explanations [for the rise of the belief that Jesus resurrected], not least Festinger’s theory of cognitive dissonance reduction, whereby more than one disappointed sect has turned defeat into zeal by means of face-saving denial. “

Firstly the assumption that the Disciples were all illiterate is incorrect. During that period boys up to the age of twelve attended the local synagogue and had a basic education centered on the scriptures. Those that showed some promise
were able to progress to become scribes. It is commonly thought that what you quoted in Acts was that which was mentioned not the basic education which was started by a Rabbi who lived some hundred years earlier. It was also a common feature for Rabbis to teach groups of disciples so it wouldn't be unusual for Jesus to do the same.

The idea that the NT is a work of fiction does not take into account that there are a huge number of references to the OT
either by direct quotations or inferences. The idea that the New Testament and Jesus himself was created as a work of fiction begs several questions. 1 Why would anyone bother? An individual would have to be incredibly knowledgeable of OT scriptures to achieve it bearing in mind that everything was hand written on scrolls. 2 Whoever did it would have to be Jewish or someone with a very good working knowledge of Jewish culture and customs. As most Jews were opposed to Christianity it seems unlikely to me that they would be Jewish. 3 One of the main messages of the Gospels is that Jesus
is the Messiah. Why isn't there a single detailed denounciation of this supposed fake Messianic movement? 4 You speak of
the many decades that passed before the Gospels were written but present scholarship believe the earliest of Pauls recognised Epistles, 1 Thesselonians was written within 25 years of Christs death and all of them within the generation that
were alive during his ministry. We also should bare in mind that people then relied mainly on memory which was far more accurate than it is to us. Having said that at age 68 I can remember events in my Childhood including our Queens Coronation day that took place in 1953. If I can remember that far back it would be simple for those people who relied almost entirely on memory to recall the events of Christs life.

I have read some of these theories some are very informative others are mere speculation disguised as expert academic knowledge. My reading material has included books by Bishop John Shelby Spong and Marcus J Borg among others.
 
TITUS 3:9.

But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law;
for they are unprofitable and vain.
 
tanakh :"Firstly the assumption that the Disciples were all illiterate is incorrect. During that period boys up to the age of twelve attended the local synagogue and had a basic education centered on the scriptures. Those that showed some promise
were able to progress to become scribes."

Let’s see what historians do:
Historians try to establish to the best of their ability what probably happened in the past.
What kinds of evidence do scholars look for when trying to establish probabilities in the past?
Well, the best kind of evidence, of course, consists of contemporary accounts; people who were close to the time of the events themselves, a reliable source that goes back to the time period itself.
There are only two sources of information for past events:
1. Stories that actually happened based on, ultimately, eyewitness accounts.
2 Stories that have been made up.

To determine which things are the things that happened,
1. You want contemporary accounts, that are close to the time of the events themselves.
2. You want these accounts to be independent of one another , that are not collaborated, you want accounts that corroborate one another; accounts that are consistent in what they have to say about the subject.
3. You want sources that are not biased toward the subject matter. You want accounts that are disinterested. You want lots of them, you want them independent from one another, yet you want them to be consistent with one another.


You have the same problems for all of the sources and all of our Gospels.
These are not historically reliable accounts. The authors were not eye witnesses; they’re Greek-speaking Christians living 35 to 65 years after the events they narrate. The accounts that they narrate are based on oral traditions that have been in circulation for decades. Year after year Christians trying to convert others told them stories to convince them(biased toward the subject matter and not disinterested) that Jesus was raised from the dead. These writers are telling stories, then, that Christians have been telling all these years. Many stories were invented, and most of the stories were changed. For that reason, these accounts are not as useful as we would like them to be for historical purposes. They’re not contemporary, they’re not disinterested, and they’re not consistent.

Even though the Gospels go under the names of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, they were, in fact, written anonymously.
These names first appeared in the second century and were assigned to the anonymous writings to give the writings apostolic
authority. The Gospel of Mark was written before any of the other canonical gospels and was written after the fall of the second temple which occurred in 70 CE.
The canonical gospels upon which the Christian faith is built, the ones which present the words of Jesus are writings by unknown authors writing to buttress the particular points they wished to make. The quotations allegedly from Jesus were most likely, made up by the authors to support their positions.
The titles in our English Bibles are later additions; they are not original to the Gospels themselves.
The Gospel narratives are always written in the third person.
The tradition that they were written by two disciples (Matthew and John) and by two companions of the apostles (Mark and Luke) is first attested in the 2nd century!
What we can say for certain about the authors is that they were all highly educated, literate, Greek-speaking Christians of (at least) the second generation, contrast this with the apostles of Jesus, who were uneducated, lower class, illiterate, Aramaic-speaking peasants.

Q: Do we have multiple independent reliable sources that are not collaborated, consistent in what they have to say about the subject, that are not biased towards the subject, that are disinterested; relating to Jesus resurrection?
Q: Is there any historical proof that of apostols of Jesus being indeed killed or were at least persecuted for their belief, except the New Testament historical documents?
Q: Can historians prove historically that God(Yahweh) raise Jesus from the dead?
Q: Can we say that the historical proof of something written in the New Testament is the historical documents of the New Testament?

tanakh :" The idea that the New Testament and Jesus himself was created as a work of fiction begs several questions. 1 Why would anyone bother?"

I am not saying all is fiction man, Jesus might have been a real person but not of divine nature.

Q: Could some zealous jews that saw that their Messiah Jesus died on the cross like some weak mere mortal, because of cognitive dissonance said to themselves: Jesus can’t be dead , and they start telling stories about Jesus being resurrected?(The third-day belief could be a byproduct of this engagement with Jewish scriptures, with some likely scriptural candidates being Hosea 6:2, a Jewish sacred third-day tradition, and Psalms 16:10)
(Traditions expressed in 1 Corinthians 15:3-7, widely recognized amongst scholars on both sides of the aisle to represent the earliest known Christian beliefs and traditions, in existence well before any of the gospels were written:

“For I handed on to you as of first importance what I in turn had received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the scriptures, and that he was buried, and that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the scriptures, and that he appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve. Then he appeared to more than five hundred brothers and sisters at one time, most of whom are still alive, though some have died. Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles.”)
Who Wrote the Four Gospels of the New Testament? An Introduction to Matthew, Mark, Luke and John.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histor...of_the_Gospels


It's not been proven 100% that one single miracle ever occurred, like ever but you believe in the supernatural(violation of the laws of nature).
It's not been proven 100% that an omnipotent, omniscient, and perfectly good being might be even logically and theoretically possible(aka problem of evil) to exist but you believe it not only exists in the theoretical realm but also in reality.

It's not been proven 100% that U.F.O's, ghosts, the yeti, the Lock nest monster are not real so you don't believe they are real. We only have testimonies.
(they have been proven no to be reliable)
It's not been proven 100% that the resurrection of Jesus really happened(this is not even an historical fact) but you believe it is a fact. We only have testimonies.
(they have been proven no to be reliable).
See what i did their?!!:P(rhetorical question)
 
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I have been in that pit too.
Listen to chuck missler session on genesis. Its free on youtube. Please give it a shot. It really helped me through the religion of the world. See also Steve Quayle on giants nephilim etc. And Michael Heiser.
That should keep you busy for some time.

Reply if you need more food :)