(ritual) circumcisions today

[simplifiedtruth]

so you try to keep your salvation by works?

Again,, If you have true faith you will work. Hebrews shows us faith is not in things seen, but in things not seen..

What is your faiht in? The law or God?

Philippians 2:12

Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. 13For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.14Do all things without murmurings and disputings: 15That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world; 16Holding forth the word of life; that I may rejoice in the day of Christ, that I have not run in vain, neither laboured in vain.

My faith is my desire to follow Him, and that I know him, because I love God and keep He's commandments and he's commandments are not burdensome. This I have because I have faith in things not seen, that which is of the heart.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Philippians 2:12

Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. 13For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.14Do all things without murmurings and disputings: 15That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world; 16Holding forth the word of life; that I may rejoice in the day of Christ, that I have not run in vain, neither laboured in vain.

My faith is my desire to follow Him, and that I know him, because I love God and keep He's commandments and he's commandments are not burdensome. This I have because I have faith in things not seen, that which is of the heart.

why is it you never answer questions? Are you afraid? This does not answer my question in a direct way and could be taken many ways..

Again I ask. Please respond.

are you trying to keep your salvation by works, or are you working because you are saved.

Again, As hebrews said, {eople with true faith will work. So there is no questions who they are..

 

[simplifiedtruth]

why is it you never answer questions? Are you afraid? This does not answer my question in a direct way and could be taken many ways..

Again I ask. Please respond.

are you trying to keep your salvation by works, or are you working because you are saved.

Again, As hebrews said, {eople with true faith will work. So there is no questions who they are..

Search the Word of God which I gave you. It should be able to answer your questions just fine without problems. I testify of the oracles of God.

 

[emjcares]

Yet it is not some love of God without Christ. No man can come to the Father except through Christ.

Romans 10:2-4 (NASB)
[SUP]2 [/SUP]For I testify about them that they have a zeal for God, but not in accordance with knowledge
e.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For not knowing about God's righteousness and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God.

[SUP]4 [/SUP]For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

Romans 10:2-4 Is talking specifically about the non believing jews who did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God (Which is Jesus Christ), but they rejected Him and the gospel, thereby going about establishing their own righteousness because they had a zeal for God, but not in accordance with knowledge. Christ is the perfection of the law which the law in old times could never do. He is the completion of it. He is the real substance of it which was a shadow in times of old. Now we have a better and a more sure promise through Him. And we keep the law in Him, as he has placed the covenants and lawwithin our hearts, being ministered through faith.

•WE? Keep the law in Him? Really? WE? How bout, HE kept the law FOR us, and we are accounted as righteous, by faith in Him, who He IS, AND what He did FOR us on the cross and empty tomb!

•and Covenant(s) plural? And law?
Covenants and law, huh?

How bout covenant, period.
A covenant that God made, ... not with us, that if we don't keep a bunch of laws and ceremonies, He will cast us out, as in the old, but a new covenant He made with Himself on our behalf.

And you say that 'no man can come to the Father except through Christ.' Okay. My bible quotes Jesus as saying, ' No man comes unto the Father, but by me.' Close enough.

But what does this mean?

There's the Father, here's Jesus.......
I want to come to the Father.
He wants me to come to Him.

I believe in Jesus, and by faith in Jesus and the fact that He paid my sin debt, I can approach the throne of God the Father. By faith. Where does it say I approach the Father by circumcising the flesh?

And even more than receiving salvation, by faith in Jesus, and approaching God, by faith in Jesus, we are kept by Jesus, because.....
'.....this man, (Jesus), because He continues forever, has an unchangeable priesthood. Wherefore, (because of that), He is able also to save them (us) to the uttermost that come to God by Him, (by faith in Him), SEEING HE EVER LIVES TO MAKE INTERCESSION FOR THEM.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Search the Word of God which I gave you. It should be able to answer your questions just fine without problems. I testify of the oracles of God.

No, thats what I thought, You can;t give a direct answer.

The passage you gave me tells me to work out the salvation I already have Which Gods children will..

I asked you if you were trying to keep your salvation by works, The passage you gave me says we are already saved. But as far as I can see, You do not believe this.. Most people who use this passage says it says to work to keep your salvation. So again, Not a good passage to use, it could be taken a few ways, the right way and the legalistic way.

So instead. Just say,

Yes, I believe I must work to keep my salvation, Or no..

There is no middle ground here.

Or. No, I believe I work because I am saved..

 

[Joshua_6]

I've wondered about Roots folks along those lines myself...

according to Roots thinking:

circumcision is required as part of keeping the law

refusing to be circumcised would be sinning

continueing in willful sin would cause a person to loose their salvation

so circumcision is a salvation issue

indeed, you must be circumcised and keep the whole law in order to continue in salvation

(the above is according to Roots thinking, as I understand it)

Still don't fully understand this. Wasn't circumcision required on the 8th day. So if its not done on the 8th day, its still a sin to be not circumcised, even if its done on the 9th or afterward? So they still need Jesus, even by their thinking of making amends by being circumcised later?

•WE? Keep the law in Him? Really? WE? How bout, HE kept the law FOR us, and we are accounted as righteous, by faith in Him, who He IS, AND what He did FOR us on the cross and empty tomb!

•and Covenant(s) plural? And law?
Covenants and law, huh?

How bout covenant, period.
A covenant that God made, ... not with us, that if we don't keep a bunch of laws and ceremonies, He will cast us out, as in the old, but a new covenant He made with Himself on our behalf.

Do these people even accept there is a New Covenant?

And you say that 'no man can come to the Father except through Christ.' Okay. My bible quotes Jesus as saying, ' No man comes unto the Father, but by me.' Close enough.

But what does this mean?

There's the Father, here's Jesus.......
I want to come to the Father.
He wants me to come to Him.

I believe in Jesus, and by faith in Jesus and the fact that He paid my sin debt, I can approach the throne of God the Father. By faith. Where does it say I approach the Father by circumcising the flesh?

Is he trying to say that when Christians come to Christ, they will eventually realise that uncircumcision is a sin (or that circumcision is more pleasing to God), and will start promoting circumcision and getting (their males) circumcised, sort of like an "elite christianity"? Isn't that exactly what the Galatians were doing? Hard to tell with cultists, as their words are so slippery.

No, thats what I thought, You can;t give a direct answer.

So true. It seems the answers ever change.

The passage you gave me tells me to work out the salvation I already have Which Gods children will..

I asked you if you were trying to keep your salvation by works, The passage you gave me says we are already saved. But as far as I can see, You do not believe this.. Most people who use this passage says it says to work to keep your salvation. So again, Not a good passage to use, it could be taken a few ways, the right way and the legalistic way.

So instead. Just say,

Yes, I believe I must work to keep my salvation, Or no..

There is no middle ground here.

Or. No, I believe I work because I am saved..

Is he saying that when someone becomes a Christian, they will start to realise that circumcision is more pleasing to God, sort of like an "elite Christianity" (like the Galatians)? Struggling to understand, as he seems to say something, then change to something opposite.

 

[Ariel82]

Lol. If not water, what else? Flint knives wouldn't surprise me, the way he's talking.

The Holy Spirit

 

[simplifiedtruth]

•WE? Keep the law in Him? Really? WE? How bout, HE kept the law FOR us, and we are accounted as righteous, by faith in Him, who He IS, AND what He did FOR us on the cross and empty tomb!

•and Covenant(s) plural? And law?
Covenants and law, huh?

How bout covenant, period.
A covenant that God made, ... not with us, that if we don't keep a bunch of laws and ceremonies, He will cast us out, as in the old, but a new covenant He made with Himself on our behalf.

And you say that 'no man can come to the Father except through Christ.' Okay. My bible quotes Jesus as saying, ' No man comes unto the Father, but by me.' Close enough.

But what does this mean?

There's the Father, here's Jesus.......
I want to come to the Father.
He wants me to come to Him.

I believe in Jesus, and by faith in Jesus and the fact that He paid my sin debt, I can approach the throne of God the Father. By faith. Where does it say I approach the Father by circumcising the flesh?

And even more than receiving salvation, by faith in Jesus, and approaching God, by faith in Jesus, we are kept by Jesus, because.....
'.....this man, (Jesus), because He continues forever, has an unchangeable priesthood. Wherefore, (because of that), He is able also to save them (us) to the uttermost that come to God by Him, (by faith in Him), SEEING HE EVER LIVES TO MAKE INTERCESSION FOR THEM.

Yes He kept the law perfectly and died a sinless sacrifice and was never born in sin. I keep the law in obedience to God since I have already received Christ and am walking with Him, as a disciple. He is my model. Now if you want to sin, then by all means, fill up your measure. But know this, those that live after the fleshly carnal nature (Which is not subject to the law of God and has no desire to be so) will die, but he that do mortify the deeds of the flesh living after the Spirit of God, he shall live.

Remember the law is not done away with, only the curses contained within it written against Israel, and the law of sin and death, when we are born again and walk with Christ.

 

[simplifiedtruth]

The Holy Spirit

I believe all of the bible, I don't exclude. I received the Spirit(Promise of the father, the rebirth of the Spirit) by faith before water baptism and then got baptized in water later. Why would anyone assume I would not support baptism.

 

[Joshua_6]

The Holy Spirit

Makes perfect sense, and would have been my first thought in any other normal thread.

I was thinking something more in line with the craziness he's talking (almost waiting for him to say wine, or milk, or somethin' else cultish).

 

[Joshua_6]

I believe all of the bible, I don't exclude. I received the Spirit(Promise of the father, the rebirth of the Spirit) by faith before water baptism and then got baptized in water later. Why would anyone assume I would not support baptism.

Because you support circumcision. Circumcision is mutually exclusive with baptism amongst Christians these days (its actually obsolete). The former a symbol of the Old Covenant, the latter a symbol of the New Covenant. Sort of like wearing two wedding rings.

 

[Dan_473]

Still don't fully understand this. Wasn't circumcision required on the 8th day. So if its not done on the 8th day, its still a sin to be not circumcised, even if its done on the 9th or afterward? So they still need Jesus, even by their thinking of making amends by being circumcised later?

I don't know... sounds like Roots people in general believe circumcision is necessary as part of keeping the law... including for Christian adults...

 

[emjcares]

Yes He kept the law perfectly and died a sinless sacrifice and was never born in sin. I keep the law in obedience to God since I have already received Christ and am walking with Him, as a disciple. He is my model. Now if you want to sin, then by all means, fill up your measure. But know this, those that live after the fleshly carnal nature (Which is not subject to the law of God and has no desire to be so) will die, but he that do mortify the deeds of the flesh living after the Spirit of God, he shall live.

Remember the law is not done away with, only the curses contained within it written against Israel, and the law of sin and death, when we are born again and walk with Christ.

Obviously it's YOU that WANTS to sin.
You refuse to accept the righteousness of God which is by faith alone in Jesus Christ alone, and you seek to be justified by your own righteousness by keeping ceremonial laws and traditions, and THAT, dear boy, is sin.

Add to it the sin of pride, in that you think you're superior to other believers in Jesus because YOU CLAIM to keep the law while implying many of us here do not.

 

[Grace777x70]

Where did all these Judaizers come from? Don't give in to them for one hour - just like Paul didn't give in either when Judaizers came to try to bring the real Christians back to the Law for living including circumcision - which is a requirement of the Law.

Galatians 2:3-5 (NASB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] But not even Titus, who was with me, though he was a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised.

[SUP]4 [/SUP] But it was because of the false brethren secretly brought in, who had sneaked in to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, in order to bring us into bondage.

[SUP]5 [/SUP] But we did not yield in subjection to them for even an hour, so that the truth of the gospel would remain with you.

 

[Ariel82]

Makes perfect sense, and would have been my first thought in any other normal thread.

I was thinking something more in line with the craziness he's talking (almost waiting for him to say wine, or milk, or somethin' else cultish).

Holding on to the hope he is just really bad at communicating....praying for him either way.

God can change lives, hearts and minds.

 

[simplifiedtruth]

Where did all these Judaizers come from? Don't give in to them for one hour - just like Paul didn't give in either when Judaizers came to try to bring the real Christians back to the Law for living including circumcision - which is a requirement of the Law.

Galatians 2:3-5 (NASB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] But not even Titus, who was with me, though he was a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised.

[SUP]4 [/SUP] But it was because of the false brethren secretly brought in, who had sneaked in to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, in order to bring us into bondage.

[SUP]5 [/SUP] But we did not yield in subjection to them for even an hour, so that the truth of the gospel would remain with you.

Tada:

[SUP]4 [/SUP]But it was because of the false brethren secretly brought in, who had sneaked in to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, in order to bring us into bondage.

The Circumcision party!

 

[Ariel82]

I did nothing other than believe when I received Christ, so I cannot boast of works. However now that I am in Christ and He in me I am a debtor to not live after the flesh(sin nature), but to mortify the deeds of the flesh.

Romans 8.12

Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. 13For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

I agree with this statement....sorry haven't read all thread...trying to puzzle something out.

 

[Grace777x70]

Tada:

[SUP]4 [/SUP]But it was because of the false brethren secretly brought in, who had sneaked in to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, in order to bring us into bondage.

The Circumcision party!

"Law-keepers" - they are Judaizers that try to get Christians to go back to living by the Law of which circumcision is just one part. This is anti-Christ belief systems whether they are the circumcision party or anyone that tries to get believers to live by the Law of Moses. These are the very same people. - Judaizers.

 

[Ariel82]

I believe all of the bible, I don't exclude. I received the Spirit(Promise of the father, the rebirth of the Spirit) by faith before water baptism and then got baptized in water later. Why would anyone assume I would not support baptism.

No one assumes that you don't support baptism.......you really are not good at reading and speaking clearly....

The Holy Spirit is given by grace of God which means unmerrited favor from God. Faith is belief in something such as remission of sins by Jesus death on the cross.

The question is....the baptism you think is needed for salvation...is it baptism of the Holy Spirit (option 1), water (option 2) or both (option 3)?


If you say both how do you deal with scripture that talk about ONE baptism?

 

[garee]

Search the Word of God which I gave you. It should be able to answer your questions just fine without problems. I testify of the oracles of God.

Do you not desire that people you ask for a reply should be treated the same? The question being asked didn’t seem that difficult. Are you seeking a righteousness of your own called self righteousness?

We have Philippians 2 to work from that you offered .It reveals a imputed righteousness seeing no Christian will not be found with any righteousness coming from something they could do to get salvation and therefore keep it seeing he promises he will finish what he stared.

Are you saying we should not have our confidence in Christ?

Phi 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:.

You seem to think the righteousness is after what you do as some wonderful work you could offer towards God ?

What do you testify. Do they and not you testify it is God alone working in you to both will and do His good pleasure or is that your work of faith and it works from your own imagination apart from the Spirit of Christ like the person described in Matthew 7.

What do the scriptures testify seeing you refuse to answer? His wonderful works or your own?

Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?And then will I profess unto them,” I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.” Mat 7:22