Healing - What is this actually?

[Cee]

The thought that physical is bad, so it doesn't need to be healed, and spiritual is good, and is our only focus is gnostic thought. It's rampant in churches today. But the knowledge of God's glory is covering the EARTH not just in churches.

 

[Grace777x70]

Good day Grace777,

While I do agree that God does not kill believers because of their sins, I do believe that God killed these two. And the reason I say this is that, how could Peter know that they were both going to die? The reason would have been because the Holy Spirit told Peter, which would infer that it was God who killed them. The other reason and main reason I believe is because of the following in red:

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But Peter said, “Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and to keep back some of the price of the land? “While it remained unsold, did it not remain your own? And after it was sold, was it not under your control? Why is it that you have conceived this deed in your heart? You have not lied to men but to God.” And as he heard these words, Ananias fell down and breathed his last; and great fear came over all who heard of it. The young men got up and covered him up, and after carrying him out, they buried him.

Now there elapsed an interval of about three hours, and his wife came in, not knowing what had happened. And Peter responded to her, “Tell me whether you sold the land for such and such a price?” And she said, “Yes, that was the price.” Then Peter said to her, “Why is it that you have agreed together to put the Spirit of the Lord to the test? Behold, the feet of those who have buried your husband are at the door, and they will carry you out as well.” And immediately she fell at his feet and breathed her last, and the young men came in and found her dead, and they carried her out and buried her beside her husband.

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It was because they both lied to the Holy Spirit. I would have to say that the odds of both of them falling dead one after another and Peter knowing about it ahead of time would favor the Holy Spirit as the one taking their lives, otherwise, the odds of Peter knowing that was going to happen would be greater than hitting any lottery. But again, I believe that it was because of their lying to the Spirit.

Just my two cents worth ....

Hey brother,

I believe that Peter had a word of knowledge of what was going to happen to them when they were caught lying. They were good Jews that had known about the things of God - especially of being afraid of the terror of the Lord.

If God was going to kill people for lying to the Holy Spirit in a church setting - most of the church would be dead a long time ago. Every time we say something that isn't the truth to another Christian - it could be called "lying to the Holy Spirit" too.

I also don't believe that they were even believers. No place does it say that they were believers other then wanting to join them and we have people for all kinds of reasons wanting to join churches today - and they are not all Christians. How could satan fill their heart if they were believers in Christ? Christ lives in our heart now - did Christ get kicked out? That would mean that satan can come into the believers heart but we know that we are sealed with the Holy Spirit when we believe. in Christ. Eph 1:13

I think that this couple were wanting to join the Christians and get in on the things being shared by all the others and so they held back their money of the land they had sold. When the couple died Acts 5:11 says that great fear came over all who heard of these things that happened to the couple. Then in verse 13 the scripture says something very interesting.

Acts 5:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] But none of the rest dared to associate with them; however, the people held them in high esteem.

It appears that there were some people trying to associate with the apostles and Christians but after that - they didn't dare try to associate with them.

Just my 2 cents worth too as I don't believe in this age of grace in the New Covenant that God kills anyone or we would all be gone for something we have done wrong in our past.

I think this is one of those obscure scriptures that need to be looked at carefully in light of the finished work of Christ.

 

[PeterJens]

Judgement on believers

So then, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord. Everyone ought to examine themselves before they eat of the bread and drink from the cup. For those who eat and drink without discerning the body of Christ eat and drink judgment on themselves.

That is why many among you are weak and sick, and a number of you have fallen asleep. But if we were more discerning with regard to ourselves, we would not come under such judgment. Nevertheless, when we are judged in this way by the Lord, we are being disciplined so that we will not be finally condemned with the world.


How can it be that christians start wanting to talk about healing, that healing is
for everyone and suggest God does not judge His people.

Above Paul clearly states that christians are judged by God and some have died.

Now to suggest Ananias and Saphara where not judged by God is clearly because
this idea of judgement from God on His people goes against their theology.

Now which is the real Jesus? One who judges and loves or only loves without judgement?

This demonstrates how far some believers have gone to make Jesus and healing for
everyone no matter what, and throwing out judgement by the Lord, and worse still
condemning believers as speaking words of the enemy when scripture is plain.

 

[Grace777x70]

No where in 1 Corinthians 11 does it say that God puts sicknesses on His beloved children to "judge" them. That's just religious nonsense and complete ignorance of the New Covenant.

The Greek word "judged" means "to decide between" and the Lord chastens/disciplines us as children. The Greek word for "chastens/discipline" means to "child-train".

People died because of what they were doing and NOT doing by not rightly dividing the purpose of communion - not that God puts a disease on them.

Would we as parents put a sickness on our own children to teach them something? Of course not. Then why do we have so much more "goodness" and "rightness" then God does for His children as the religious belief says that God puts sicknesses on His children to teach them things?

Are we so much better then our loving Father in heaven? Where do we get this sense of "rightness" from? - The life of the Lord in us obviously.

The real Jesus is the One that was displaying the will of the Father while He was on this earth and healing "all" that came to Him. The real Jesus is the One who is the express representation of the nature of the Father . Heb. 1:3

Nowhere do we see where Jesus put a sickness on people in fact we see the complete opposite. Jesus went about "doing good" and healing all that oppressed of the devil. Acts 10:38

Then some Christians wonder why people in the world reject what we say about God. We tell them that He will put sicknesses on you if you don't measure up. That is such religious nonsense.

The people of the world are not rejecting Christ - they are rejecting our religious portrayals of our Father and Lord. - and I don't blame them either as that is NOT the nature of our Lord and Father.

Religion is just so opposite of the Lord in this New Covenant of grace. Look at James and John that wanted to call down fire on the Samaritans in the exact place that Elijah did in the Old Covenant. Jesus said "You do not know what manner of spirit you are of - The Son of Man is not come to destroy men's lives but to save them." Luke 9:54-56.

( and yet our religious traditions say the complete opposite of what the Lord Jesus says )

Religion today says the same thing about God - that He will put sicknesses on you if you don't measure up - religion doesn't know the heart and nature of the Father and our Lord yet.

 

[Ariel82]

I would spank my child, put them in time out, take away toys and privileges, have them do extra chores, etc to teach my children a lesson.

God has done so in a more extreme fashion g
Throughout the Bible. God is the SAME God in the Old and New testament.

You can close your eyes and hold your ears and go "lalallala" all you want, but anyone who truly looks at scripture knows God values saving the soul over saving these temporal bodies.

Sometimes you have to cause pain to help a wound heal. Example: reseting a broken bone, lancing an infected pus filled sore, clean dirt out of a cut, removing a splinter, etc.

Sometimes our experiences are painful because God is helping us heal.

So if illness is like a wound, why were we wounded in the first place? We live in a sinful world. We were born into bodies that will eventually die. Sin causes illness. Not necessarily ours or our parents, but sin traced back to Adam and Eve. God can heal us and work miracles.

However, it's NOT promised in the Bible that all physical illness in these temporal bodies will be healed before we die and return to God. It is promised that we will have resurrected bodies that will not get sick or die or suffer.it is promised eternal life with Him in heaven.

So are you willing to suffer and die if it lead even one person back to God? Would you endure and live with trials and tribulations for the sake of spreading the gospel?

 

[Ariel82]

"
We tell them that He will put sicknesses on you if you don't measure up. "


Interesting....I have heard something similar that says..."you haven't been healed because you have hidden sin you need to repent from." or something to the false thought it's the person fault they aren't healed. They "don't have enough faith"

Pretty much saying "he will not remove sickness from you until you measure up"

 

[Grace777x70]

I would spank my child, put them in time out, take away toys and privileges, have them do extra chores, etc to teach my children a lesson.

God has done so in a more extreme fashion g
Throughout the Bible. God is the SAME God in the Old and New testament.

You can close your eyes and hold your ears and go "lalallala" all you want, but anyone who truly looks at scripture knows God values saving the soul over saving these temporal bodies.

Sometimes you have to cause pain to help a wound heal. Example: reseting a broken bone, lancing an infected pus filled sore, clean dirt out of a cut, removing a splinter, etc.

Sometimes our experiences are painful because God is helping us heal.

So if illness is like a wound, why were we wounded in the first place? We live in a sinful world. We were born into bodies that will eventually die. Sin causes illness. Not necessarily ours or our parents, but sin traced back to Adam and Eve. God can heal us and work miracles.

However, it's NOT promised in the Bible that all physical illness in these temporal bodies will be healed before we die and return to God. It is promised that we will have resurrected bodies that will not get sick or die or suffer.it is promised eternal life with Him in heaven.

So are you willing to suffer and die if it lead even one person back to God? Would you endure and live with trials and tribulations for the sake of spreading the gospel?

Why don't you be like the religious "god" in some of our minds and put sicknesses on your children - if you love them so much? And if they are really bad - then kill them. Be like the 'god" of the religious mindset.

Trials and tribulations are not sicknesses - trials/tribulations are persecutions and attacks on us for the gospel's sake and they bring out our faith and make us strong in Him as He proves His faithfulness to us. Saying sickness is from God is complete religious nonsense from the pit of hell.

Sicknesses can come because we are in this fallen world but they are not from God.

Jesus is perfect theology no matter what our religious teachings have taught us.

Jesus is perfect theology:

Jesus is the exact representation of the Father. Jesus said no one knows my Father.

Jesus came to reveal the Father and His true nature to us as truth in the OT was progressive and in pictures and in shadows, but it ends with the revelation of Jesus Christ and what He has already done in His finished work.

So, whatever understanding of God we get from the Old Covenant that doesn't line up with Jesus' manifestation of the Father will be inaccurate.

Hebrews 1:1-3 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways
,
[SUP]2 [/SUP] in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world.

[SUP]3 [/SUP] And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,

Everyone is free to believe whatever they want. Can you imagine living for all eternity with the "god" of this religious mindset that says "god" puts sicknesses on people to teach them things?

I rather believe the scripture that says this about our loving Father and Lord.

Ephesians 2:7 (NASB)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.

 

[Grace777x70]

"
We tell them that He will put sicknesses on you if you don't measure up. "


Interesting....I have heard something similar that says..."you haven't been healed because you have hidden sin you need to repent from." or something to the false thought it's the person fault they aren't healed. They "don't have enough faith"

Pretty much saying "he will not remove sickness from you until you measure up"

I agree..Same bunch of religious nonsense when people say that too about "you have hidden sin in your life".

It may be that some aren't healed because we don't have faith - that's biblical and proven by Jesus more then a few times in the gospels. That's not something to be condemned about - it's should be about hearing the word of Christ so that faith can come.

The "hidden sin" thing was addressed right at the start. That is as bad as saying that God puts sicknesses on you to teach you something.

It's here below:

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/140632-healing-what-actually.html#post2757880

 

[Ariel82]

Does repeating the same phrases somehow hypnosis people into agreement...okay let me see what is actually new in your response...

 

[Ariel82]

Semantics....lets rephrase the question assuming your assertion has merit.


If God does not put sickness on people to punish them,then why does he allow people to become sick?
Why doesn't he protect people from it?
Why is there still sickness and evil in the world if God loves us so much?

 

[Grace777x70]

Does repeating the same phrases somehow hypnosis people into agreement...okay let me see what is actually new in your response...

Just looking for good soil and hoping that the seed will take in the soil.

Tell me - why don't you be like the religious "god" and infect your children with polio to teach them "things"? Why don't you kill them if they act up too bad - just like the religious "god" does? Because you now it's ungodly and yet we attribute the very same thing to our loving heavenly Father.

What makes us people more "righteous" and "good" then this religious "god" in that we would never harm our own children with deliberately putting sicknesses on them - or killing them if we don't like their one time behavior?

Why are we so much better morally then this religious "god"?

If you want to believe our Lord and Father is like that - it's your choice but Jesus shows us a completely different "god" then the religious one we have made up in our own minds from faulty teaching and not understanding the difference between the Old and New Covenant and the finished work of Christ in the cross and resurrection.

I have put out what I believe and supported with the life of Jesus who came to show us the Father because He said ' No one knows the Father but Himself".

Anyway - you are free to believe whatever you want...bless you. ..have a great day!

 

[Grace777x70]

Semantics....lets rephrase the question assuming your assertion has merit.


If God does not put sickness on people to punish them,then why does he allow people to become sick?
Why doesn't he protect people from it?
Why is there still sickness and evil in the world if God loves us so much?

You will find your answer to this when you answer why was there so much sickness and evil when Jesus was on the earth - healing all that came to Him and when He went about "doing good" and healing all that were oppressed of the devil?

 

[Ariel82]

1. I don't kill or make my children sick on purpose because I can't bring them back to life or make them well. However God can.

2. I do make them upset with me and sad when they do something dumb that can get themselves hurt or dead.

3. God does convict and punish us when we walk down the path that can lead to spiritual death.

4. What ways does God convict people in your world?

 

[Ariel82]

You will find your answer to this when you answer why was there so much sickness and evil when Jesus was on the earth - healing all that came to Him and when He went about "doing good" and healing all that were oppressed of the devil?

Okay blame it on Satan.

Why doesn't God just get rid of that guy?