Charismatic - Losing Faith (Healing)

[Cee]

Scriptures about God healing all sickness:

Deut 7:15 15 And the LORD will take away from thee all sickness, and will put none of the evil diseases of Egypt, which thou knowest, upon thee; but will lay them upon all them that hate thee.

Psalm 103:1-5 1 Bless the LORD, O my soul: and all that is within me, bless his holy name. 2 Bless the LORD, O my soul, and forget not all his benefits: 3 Who forgiveth all thine iniquities; who healeth all thy diseases; 4 Who redeemeth thy life from destruction; who crowneth thee with lovingkindness and tender mercies; 5 Who satisfieth thy mouth with good things; so that thy youth is renewed like the eagle's.

Prov 4:20 My son, attend to my words; incline thine ear unto my sayings. 21 Let them not depart from thine eyes; keep them in the midst of thine heart. 22 For they are life unto those that find them, and health to all their flesh. 23 Keep thy heart with all diligence; for out of it are the issues of life.

Matt 8:16 When the even was come, they brought unto him many that were possessed with devils: and he cast out the spirits with his word, and healed all that were sick: 17 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying, Himself took our infirmities, and bare our sicknesses.

Matt 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; 18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

Acts 10:38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.

Sickness is first explained in the law and what will happen if Jews didn't follow the law...

Gal 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree

James 5:13 Is any among you afflicted? let him pray. Is any merry? let him sing psalms. 14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: 15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him. 16 Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.

3 John 2"Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth.

Never said that "healing is not in scriptures" because that would be a lie.

What I have said is that all sickness may not be an attack from Satan, nor does God heal all physical illness (nor does He promises too).

Sometimes death of these bodies is God's way of healing, because then the person goes to be with Him.

If it's God's will for people to die peacefully in their sleep, then I say praise God.

However, if it's God's will that you die painfully persecuted by your enemies, can you still praise God despite your physical pain?

 

[notuptome]

Scriptures about God healing all sickness:

Deut 7:15 15 And the LORD will take away from thee all sickness, and will put none of the evil diseases of Egypt, which thou knowest, upon thee; but will lay them upon all them that hate thee.

Psalm 103:1-5 1 Bless the LORD, O my soul: and all that is within me, bless his holy name. 2 Bless the LORD, O my soul, and forget not all his benefits: 3 Who forgiveth all thine iniquities; who healeth all thy diseases; 4 Who redeemeth thy life from destruction; who crowneth thee with lovingkindness and tender mercies; 5 Who satisfieth thy mouth with good things; so that thy youth is renewed like the eagle's.

Prov 4:20 My son, attend to my words; incline thine ear unto my sayings. 21 Let them not depart from thine eyes; keep them in the midst of thine heart. 22 For they are life unto those that find them, and health to all their flesh. 23 Keep thy heart with all diligence; for out of it are the issues of life.

Matt 8:16 When the even was come, they brought unto him many that were possessed with devils: and he cast out the spirits with his word, and healed all that were sick: 17 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying, Himself took our infirmities, and bare our sicknesses.

Matt 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; 18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

Acts 10:38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.

Sickness is first explained in the law and what will happen if Jews didn't follow the law...

Gal 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree

James 5:13 Is any among you afflicted? let him pray. Is any merry? let him sing psalms. 14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: 15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him. 16 Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.

3 John 2"Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth.

New age powder puff religion.

Pr 30:8 Remove far from me vanity and lies: give me neither poverty nor riches; feed me with food convenient for me:

There is a depth of knowledge, wisdom and understanding that you cannot attain unto apart from suffering.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

God will heal all sickness just not in this world. In the millennium we will know not sickness or hurt.

 

[ladylynn]

I think the question is wrong. How much are you willing to live for Christ? This question is more in line and of greater importance, with your relationship and God. Service to God is a blessing, even those that received persecution unto death died with a smile knowing what laid ahead. I don't need to compare my walk with the walk of others, but by the voice of God. You ask how much is a person willing to suffer for Christ, but that question ignores that God rewards those that diligently seek Him.

It is not about suffering but service. Not all service equates to suffering, and I choose to serve in a way that does not suffer. It does not diminish the service, it is simply the arm doing its job as opposed to the foot. Each part, doing as it should. The foot may be in the mud and the hand in the fresh air, but each part is essential.

You see, I see it as a trap. If a person asks if one is willing to suffer for Christ this person, if answered yes, would then be inviting suffering into their life. This is not my desire, as I know one can serve Christ and live peacefully. I invite that which is pure, holy, and good and focus on it. I don't think God wants us as sadists, seeking pain when Christ died so that we may have life. He just wants us willing to listen to Him, for His will in our lives.

I understand Christians do suffer, and yet in death they meet Jesus. Death is then a joy and not a tragedy for the believer, for their death is into the hands of Christ. A warm embrace. So, a Christian should have a mindset of service, of obedience, but one should not seek suffering as a sadist, but rather listen keenly to the Lord's voice. You, again, ask a question of suffering, but I think the more valid question is one of service to the lordship of God. You assume such obedience and service leads to suffering, but it does not for everyone. That is your false assumption, and your question is somewhat prideful.

I was thinking the same thing Ben and you beat me to it in your post. I remember yet again who Jesus is and what He came to do and what He stands for "life" Jesus came to give and to bring LIFE..,not death. I don't know why other Christians must always point to death and not life.

Our culture., our world that is deceptively run by the prince of the power of the air. he has blinded the minds of unbelievers so all they can think of is death. We are not to be so blind or ignorant of his devices!! We have the Words of life from Jesus and should always be countering by speaking about the life He gave us by talking about LIFE and living for Him and in Him and by Him. Using sentences that are infused with life not death.

Our culture has been tricked into calling good evil.,and evil good. Even in such silly issues as cookies and clothes. I'm dying for that cookie. I'm dying for that outfit. I'm dying for that piece of cake... Why don't we hear them say "I'm LIVING for that cookie" "I'm LIVING for that outfit" "I'm living for that piece of cake" ??? Because death is on the mind of people due to the enemy. It's all around us and people are plagued by it and don't even know it. They are speaking death to themselves and others all day long without even knowing it. We of all people- representatives of Christ should be speaking life and peace each and every day. We should not be speaking of death and dying. Our words hold power to bless or curse.

 

[ladylynn]

While I read these different posts I can clearly see many come from a death perspective. And in this world THAT IS NORMAL. Being in and of this world the unsaved have no other way but to see death all around them.

But us believers must have a LIFE perspective. It is our RESPONSIBILITY to look past death and see life. Yes, death is allllll around us here but we have the life of Christ in us. He has given us the ability to be in this world and to effect this world with the LIFE He gave us. Are we effecting our world by being willing to live for Christ before men in it?? That is a more valid question in my mind.

If we as believers do not have a life perspective SOMETHING IS MISSING! If you are only seeing death than there is something wrong with your perspective. Jesus came to give LIFE and that more abundantly. And it is also a gift NOW while we are here effecting the people around us. Christians are stripping themselves of the power Jesus gave by living as if Jesus is only the Savior of tomorrow when they get to heaven. He is the Savior now while we are here. The Good Shepherd is taking care of His sheep now while we are here. He prepares a table in the "presence" of our enemies. We will have no enemies in heaven. They are here.

Get a LIFE perspective. Living the life of Christ is not new age. Talking about life is a Jesus perspective not a new age perspective. How can you say that notuptome? I'm baffled at the religion that has entangled itself into the life of believers. I should not be since I've been there too. But since being out of it I can't see any other way to think but about LIFE. Vital living., vital life that Jesus died to give me today and tomorrow. It changes us for today while we are here. Jesus defeated death and wants us to do the same while we are here. Be examples of Him.

Also., I was thinking with all the death and dying in this world and all the talk about it, all the news about it., all the focus on and about it.. is it ANY wonder there is more and more of it? That the more people talk about it the more they spread it above the words of Jesus? If believers are also joining in, has your salt lost it's savor???

 

[UnderGrace]

Paul left Trophimus behind during one of his missionary journeys because of illness (2 Timothy 4:20).

He recommended wine to Timothy for his “stomach and [his] frequent ailments” (1 Timothy 5:23).

Epaphroditus got so sick he nearly died (Philippians 2:25–27).

And sometimes God sent sickness to discipline members of His church (1 Corinthians 11:29–32).

 

[BenFTW]

Decided to stay out of it. Nice chat. lol

 

[UnderGrace]

Decided to stay out of it. Nice chat. lol

Well I did read your post before you took it down.

Did I say God does not heal. NO.

What I disagree with and I do not believe is supported by scripture is that believers do not have disease because Jesus took our disease when He bore our sins. This is new teaching that is making the rounds, that Christians will die of old age but not disease.

By the way I am a runner and I train to run, I do not get up magically one day and find myself able to run 10K (kilometres).

 

[BenFTW]

Well I did read your post before you took it down.

Did I say God does not heal. NO.

What I disagree with and I do not believe is supported by scripture is that believers do not have disease because Jesus took our disease when He bore our sins. This is new teaching that is making the rounds, that Christians will die of old age but not disease.

By the way I am a runner and I train to run, I do not get up magically one day and find myself able to run 10K (kilometres).

I wasn't saying Christians are immune to sickness, as they still control their forks. Yet I would also say that God is gracious, and does protect us. There is responsibility involved. Again, though, placebo effect.

Belief is quite a powerful tool if harnessed. It not only shapes our perception of the world, but even the world itself. I once heard a saying, "VVhatever man can conceive, he can achieve, if he would only believe." Something like that. VVhen I hear that quote I think that all things are possible with God, and so in reality that statement is quite intriguing. I think of Jesus walking on water, completely ignoring the laws of physics. Then a mere man in belief able to do the same, simply by faith.

All I am saying is that our beliefs, one way or another, dictate our experience. If someone is sick and wishes to be made whole, they can either stay sick or have faith in God to heal them and experience that healing based upon God's faithfulness. Of course there are natural remedies that God placed upon the earth for our well-being, but God is still the source. Anyways, I simply am pointing to faith in God. He is good and gracious.

 

[Cee]

Early disciples did get sick, but they do today as well. But Scripture is clear if you do get sick, prayer shall restore you.

 

[fredoheaven]

James 5:14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:

Prayer gets healing along with oil.

God bless

 

[Jimbone]

While I read these different posts I can clearly see many come from a death perspective. And in this world THAT IS NORMAL. Being in and of this world the unsaved have no other way but to see death all around them.

But us believers must have a LIFE perspective. It is our RESPONSIBILITY to look past death and see life. Yes, death is allllll around us here but we have the life of Christ in us. He has given us the ability to be in this world and to effect this world with the LIFE He gave us. Are we effecting our world by being willing to live for Christ before men in it?? That is a more valid question in my mind.

If we as believers do not have a life perspective SOMETHING IS MISSING! If you are only seeing death than there is something wrong with your perspective. Jesus came to give LIFE and that more abundantly. And it is also a gift NOW while we are here effecting the people around us. Christians are stripping themselves of the power Jesus gave by living as if Jesus is only the Savior of tomorrow when they get to heaven. He is the Savior now while we are here. The Good Shepherd is taking care of His sheep now while we are here. He prepares a table in the "presence" of our enemies. We will have no enemies in heaven. They are here.

Get a LIFE perspective. Living the life of Christ is not new age. Talking about life is a Jesus perspective not a new age perspective. How can you say that notuptome? I'm baffled at the religion that has entangled itself into the life of believers. I should not be since I've been there too. But since being out of it I can't see any other way to think but about LIFE. Vital living., vital life that Jesus died to give me today and tomorrow. It changes us for today while we are here. Jesus defeated death and wants us to do the same while we are here. Be examples of Him.

Also., I was thinking with all the death and dying in this world and all the talk about it, all the news about it., all the focus on and about it.. is it ANY wonder there is more and more of it? That the more people talk about it the more they spread it above the words of Jesus? If believers are also joining in, has your salt lost it's savor???

I really agree so much with what you're saying here, and it seems to me WAY TOO MUCH is lost on paper. I have found myself so very guilty of this very thing. We can't get lost in the search for truth so much that we miss it right in front of us, but my biggest agreement is it's about Jesus and God alone. I am finding more and more that this whole Christian thing is about relationships, love, and hope we treat each other in Christ. To love our God first and then to treat each other the same because we know what has happen to each one of us that are truly in Christ.

This is something I've found that is a bit beyond an internet faceless insult fest about men, dinosaurs, and the age of the earth. I also understand emotion can be conveyed on paper, but is often lost in emotes, and a poor substitute to sitting with someone and talking with them face to face. I've found that is so much better for me when I'm trying to connect to try to share Christ. I also know how bad I have done, even here, at times trying to share like this. I just know I can get into a very disconnected "discussion" on the internet when I want to, and really what purpose does two people "teaching" at each other truly serve.

I do absolutely agree that Jesus has to be the center and reason for all we do in His name, but I do feel that we should also know scripture as much as we can because that was all we are armed with. Even Jesus when drilled by authority or face temptation He would only answer with scripture. So I do also feel that knowing the bible is necessary, but neither at the expense of the other.

I just really liked what you wrote here and I think this was the first post I've read of yours and felt I understood you a bit better, thanks for sharing sister, and have a good day.

 

[notuptome]

Early disciples did get sick, but they do today as well. But Scripture is clear if you do get sick, prayer shall restore you.

You are teaching new age mysticism not biblical truth. You like the malefactor crucified next to the Lord Jesus endeavor to manipulate God.

It is not always the will of God to heal His children. Christians suffer along side the unsaved to reveal the difference between hope and hopelessness.

If you lack Christian character you will not be able to suffer for the glory of God.

Ro 14:8 For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord’s.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[UnderGrace]

Early disciples did get sick, but they do today as well. But Scripture is clear if you do get sick, prayer shall restore you.

Really, so no believer who has a heart sold out for Jesus, who has been prayed over, has ever died of disease?

So God is okay with us being martyred for the faith, as in tortured and murdered, but we shall never have to die of disease?

 

[UnderGrace]

Ben, all I can say is I am shocked at this.

We are called to serve not harness belief and energy!

Perhaps you should spend some time reading about the voice of the martyrs.

Here is the link, https://www.persecution.com/

I wasn't saying Christians are immune to sickness, as they still control their forks. Yet I would also say that God is gracious, and does protect us. There is responsibility involved. Again, though, placebo effect.

Belief is quite a powerful tool if harnessed. It not only shapes our perception of the world, but even the world itself. I once heard a saying, "VVhatever man can conceive, he can achieve, if he would only believe." Something like that. VVhen I hear that quote I think that all things are possible with God, and so in reality that statement is quite intriguing. I think of Jesus walking on water, completely ignoring the laws of physics. Then a mere man in belief able to do the same, simply by faith.

All I am saying is that our beliefs, one way or another, dictate our experience. If someone is sick and wishes to be made whole, they can either stay sick or have faith in God to heal them and experience that healing based upon God's faithfulness. Of course there are natural remedies that God placed upon the earth for our well-being, but God is still the source. Anyways, I simply am pointing to faith in God. He is good and gracious.

 

[popeye]

Really, so no believer who has a heart sold out for Jesus, who has been prayed over, has ever died of disease?

So God is okay with us being martyred for the faith, as in tortured and murdered, but we shall never have to die of disease?

Ok,leys play out your template and use salvation instead.


"you mean to tell me Jesus died for every human? Well that is a lie because I know a neighbor that died unsaved. And in the word it says many go down the path of destruction. So God just was confused."
d
" I know a man that walked up to God and dared him to save him. He shook his fist at God and hatefully mocked and said'go ahead God save me,I dare you"

So,we can conclude salvation is iffy and sparse,not a huge deal on God's agenda.

Oh,wait,more accurately salvation is not known to be his will.

 

[popeye]

Taking a ridiculous unbiblical position is harder than just lining up with the word

 

[notuptome]

Ok,leys play out your template and use salvation instead.


"you mean to tell me Jesus died for every human? Well that is a lie because I know a neighbor that died unsaved. And in the word it says many go down the path of destruction. So God just was confused."
d
" I know a man that walked up to God and dared him to save him. He shook his fist at God and hatefully mocked and said'go ahead God save me,I dare you"

So,we can conclude salvation is iffy and sparse,not a huge deal on God's agenda.

Oh,wait,more accurately salvation is not known to be his will.

If you have nothing to contribute that will edify the whole why say anything?

A modicum of biblical study applied with a hint of dispensational knowledge goes a long way. God will heal all in the kingdom. God allows suffering and disease that His goodness and mercy will be made plain.

There is natural revelation and biblical revelation. Both contribute and testify of Gods goodness and mercy. The unsaved are healed and the believer is healed alike. God makes the sun to shine and the rain to fall on the good and the evil alike.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[UnderGrace]

Obviously, you place salvation (from hell, work of the cross) and not having disease (physical ailments) as also a supposed work of the cross, as equal and part of what Jesus accomplished on the cross.

So back it up with scripture?

Ok,leys play out your template and use salvation instead.


"you mean to tell me Jesus died for every human? Well that is a lie because I know a neighbor that died unsaved. And in the word it says many go down the path of destruction. So God just was confused."
d
" I know a man that walked up to God and dared him to save him. He shook his fist at God and hatefully mocked and said'go ahead God save me,I dare you"

So,we can conclude salvation is iffy and sparse,not a huge deal on God's agenda.

Oh,wait,more accurately salvation is not known to be his will.

 

[Cee]

God also desires all to be saved, but not all are.

Why question what Scripture teaches with our experiences? Some people think God is a big bully because of their experiences. But Scripture shows Him different. Scripture teaches the prayer of faith will save the sick. I believe it. Even if my experiences don't always line up. Just like I believe I am saved even if my experiences don't line up. And God is good. And He has set us free from sin. Even if our experiences don't line up. I believe His truth and the more I let that seed of faith stay planted the more I see His truths manifest in my life.

Really, so no believer who has a heart sold out for Jesus, who has been prayed over, has ever died of disease?

So God is okay with us being martyred for the faith, as in tortured and murdered, but we shall never have to die of disease?

 

[Cee]

Did Jesus suffer? Yes.
Did Jesus get sick? No.
Did Jesus heal all who asked? Yes.
Did the disciples heal all? No.
Did Jesus heal the one disciples couldn't? Yes.

So that means God desired healing for the one the disciples couldn't restore. Just as God desires all to be saved, but not all are.