So what about the fourth commandment?
- Thread starter disciplemike
- Start date
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I don't believe in luck. But thanks for your kind thoughts.
If it helps...
You seem to be missing the point. I'm talking about our inability to keep the whole law. Why do you equate that with the law being abolished? (rhetorical question).
Sorry I lied when I said I'm done. But now I'm really done because I have to go to school.
If it helps...
You seem to be missing the point. I'm talking about our inability to keep the whole law. Why do you equate that with the law being abolished? (rhetorical question).
Sorry I lied when I said I'm done. But now I'm really done because I have to go to school.
Disciplemike,
Jn 14:6, "...I am....the TRUTH..."
Jn 8:32-36,
v 32, "And ye shall know the truth,and the truth shall make you free."
v 33, "They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?"
v 34, "Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin."
v 35, "And the servant abideth not in the house forever: but the Son abideth ever."
v 36, "If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed."
------------------------------------------------------------
Jesus is the truth that sets us free from sin (error).
Jesus' Spirit is the Holy Spirit.
When we receive the Gift of the Holy Spirit, by His blood/grace,
We are forgiven and live free from the burden of guilt on our souls.
----------------------------
What law does God/Jesus live under? There is no law for God.
He will not sin.
If we are filled with His Spirit/love, then we should not have a will to sin.
The Law is sin and guilt,
The Spirit is free.
There are NO NO NO NO laws for God's spiritual children of the Holy Spirit.
Love God with all you heart etc......... gone
love your neighbor etc.......gone
Love one another as I have loved you etc..........gone
No one has to tell you,
No one has to make a law,
You are by the Holy Spirit of God dwelling in you, free from ALL laws.
----------------------
--------------------------------
If the Son shall make you free..............
you shall be free indeed.
Jn 14:6, "...I am....the TRUTH..."
Jn 8:32-36,
v 32, "And ye shall know the truth,and the truth shall make you free."
v 33, "They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?"
v 34, "Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin."
v 35, "And the servant abideth not in the house forever: but the Son abideth ever."
v 36, "If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed."
------------------------------------------------------------
Jesus is the truth that sets us free from sin (error).
Jesus' Spirit is the Holy Spirit.
When we receive the Gift of the Holy Spirit, by His blood/grace,
We are forgiven and live free from the burden of guilt on our souls.
----------------------------
What law does God/Jesus live under? There is no law for God.
He will not sin.
If we are filled with His Spirit/love, then we should not have a will to sin.
The Law is sin and guilt,
The Spirit is free.
There are NO NO NO NO laws for God's spiritual children of the Holy Spirit.
Love God with all you heart etc......... gone
love your neighbor etc.......gone
Love one another as I have loved you etc..........gone
No one has to tell you,
No one has to make a law,
You are by the Holy Spirit of God dwelling in you, free from ALL laws.
----------------------
--------------------------------
If the Son shall make you free..............
you shall be free indeed.
Interesting thought, but take it for what it's worth to you.
Just based on my personal observations, most local churches have services that last 1-1.5 hours, and most folks are out of the church within ~2 hours. The majority of the folks in our church are there for most of the day of ~5-6 hours.
This is one of the blessings of the Sabbath: knowing that the entire day is important, not just a couple of hours at church.
Just based on my personal observations, most local churches have services that last 1-1.5 hours, and most folks are out of the church within ~2 hours. The majority of the folks in our church are there for most of the day of ~5-6 hours.
This is one of the blessings of the Sabbath: knowing that the entire day is important, not just a couple of hours at church.
Keeping the Sabbath,......... a Day of Guilt and Suffering,
Starting at sunset, when the Sabbath ritual of not working begins,
The mind is set on the flesh.
------------------------------------------------------------
If I push a button, is that working/sin?
If I turn on the TV is that working/sin?
If I take too many steps, is that work/sin?
If I light a fire, is that work/sin?
If I clean the house, is that work/sin?
How far can I drive a car, before it is sin?
I could go on endlessly.
------------
Worry, worry, worry, and guilt!!!!!
Is this work/sin, is that work/sin?
And which....... MEN .....shall we have decide, what is work/sin, and what is not work/sin........ against God?
The soul that tries to please God, by keeping the Ritual of not working on the Sabbath,
Is filled with worry and guilt,
YOUR SOUL WILL NEVER BE FREE FROM THE LAW OF SIN (GUILT) AND DEATH, WHILE YOUR MIND IS SET ON TH FLESH!
---------
ALL days, nights, and times are most holy to the unchanging God of love.
With His Holy Spirit dwelling within us, All days, nights, and times are holy for us!
ALL TIME IS HOLY, Shall we say that God is greater within us, from 8 pm on Friday until 8 pm on the Sabbath?
Is the clock on Eastern time, or Central time, or the time it is in Israel/Jerusalem?
for Christians, every moment of every day is important, devoted to God.
we are not our own, 20 For we have been bought with a price
based on https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1 cor+6&version=nasb
When you teach to keep the Sabbath, you are teaching that to work on that day is sin.
Watch out! Oh, No, I pushed a button, God help me!
I took too many steps,....my relationship with God suffered because I took too many steps.
I am separated from God because I lit a fire.
All these "laws" are after the flesh,
Your spirit can't be free when it is set on the flesh/ritual.
This is what you are teaching others.
Try as you may, you cannot free your mind from the worry and guilt of not keeping a ritual of not working on the Sabbath.
---------------
ALL DAYS (and nights) are rest in your relationship with God in the Holy Spirit.
ALL DAYS are set apart in Him.
ALL DAYS honor Him.
ALL DAYS are an absolute joy in Him.
Free yourself from thinking that anything is different when the sun comes up, or goes down, or what time it is.
Watch out! Oh, No, I pushed a button, God help me!
I took too many steps,....my relationship with God suffered because I took too many steps.
I am separated from God because I lit a fire.
All these "laws" are after the flesh,
Your spirit can't be free when it is set on the flesh/ritual.
This is what you are teaching others.
Try as you may, you cannot free your mind from the worry and guilt of not keeping a ritual of not working on the Sabbath.
---------------
ALL DAYS (and nights) are rest in your relationship with God in the Holy Spirit.
ALL DAYS are set apart in Him.
ALL DAYS honor Him.
ALL DAYS are an absolute joy in Him.
Free yourself from thinking that anything is different when the sun comes up, or goes down, or what time it is.
I think it's worth noting that I think very few Sabbatarians would believe that pushing a button is "work." I think it would be up to you to demonstrate that pushing a button is "work."
The early Rabbi's argued about the specifics of the law, such as what qualifies as work, what qualifies as kindling a fire or traveling too far, etc.. because they desired to follow the Law to the letter. After all, if God commands it, one ought to do exactly as He said. Makes sense, right? The problem is the Law of Moses is quite often too vague. Moses simply said don't work on the Sabbath. So, what qualifies as "work?" The Law is ambiguous and we could sit here in an endless discussion on what is "work." Work for us is hardly what an ancient Israelite would have experienced as "work." So what's the intent of Moses' writing? Likewise, we could debate where the line is on "kindling a fire" and on and on.
The Law is vague to us because it was written primarily to and for a society and people living thousands of years ago, which is why nobody feels the need to follow the law about how to deal with the latrine or mandate parapets on roofs or carrying out specific punishments prescribed by the Law. I suppose the initial audiences would have known what was meant. It would have made sense to them because they were the primary audience. But as time goes by, the Law becomes vague to people who don't have the appropriate context and down right inapplicable if not impossible to actually observe in many cases.
If you want to derive some general principles from the Law such as the value and goodness of a day off work and such, I think that's probably fine, but it seems to me one can hardly follow it as intended when it was written.
The early Rabbi's argued about the specifics of the law, such as what qualifies as work, what qualifies as kindling a fire or traveling too far, etc.. because they desired to follow the Law to the letter. After all, if God commands it, one ought to do exactly as He said. Makes sense, right? The problem is the Law of Moses is quite often too vague. Moses simply said don't work on the Sabbath. So, what qualifies as "work?" The Law is ambiguous and we could sit here in an endless discussion on what is "work." Work for us is hardly what an ancient Israelite would have experienced as "work." So what's the intent of Moses' writing? Likewise, we could debate where the line is on "kindling a fire" and on and on.
The Law is vague to us because it was written primarily to and for a society and people living thousands of years ago, which is why nobody feels the need to follow the law about how to deal with the latrine or mandate parapets on roofs or carrying out specific punishments prescribed by the Law. I suppose the initial audiences would have known what was meant. It would have made sense to them because they were the primary audience. But as time goes by, the Law becomes vague to people who don't have the appropriate context and down right inapplicable if not impossible to actually observe in many cases.
If you want to derive some general principles from the Law such as the value and goodness of a day off work and such, I think that's probably fine, but it seems to me one can hardly follow it as intended when it was written.
I'm not sure if you've read the Law in it's entirety, but it is not all about flesh/ritual. The Law is full of worshiping God with your heart out of love, and God giving the Law out of His love for His people. Are there consequences if you break the Law? Yes. But there is also mercy, grace and forgiveness. Just like the New Testament.
And, I can absolutely honor the Sabbath without worrying about the ritual. Every Friday night, I look forward to honoring His sabbath, instead of trying not to do things. If people can't understand that perspective switch, they're more legalistic than many who keep the Law.
True.
Kind of. But He set the 7th day apart as holy from all the others.
True.
True.
It's only different because God Himself made it different. I'm not willing to tell God that something He made holy isn't holy anymore.
And, I can absolutely honor the Sabbath without worrying about the ritual. Every Friday night, I look forward to honoring His sabbath, instead of trying not to do things. If people can't understand that perspective switch, they're more legalistic than many who keep the Law.
True.
Kind of. But He set the 7th day apart as holy from all the others.
True.
True.
It's only different because God Himself made it different. I'm not willing to tell God that something He made holy isn't holy anymore.
Some very good stuff here, especially man's desire to add specifics to a command that God doesn't give.
The only thing I would add is that while many of the laws seem inapplicable to us as a society, ALL of the laws are applicable spiritually and have something to teach us about living a life worthy of the calling of God.
The only thing I would add is that while many of the laws seem inapplicable to us as a society, ALL of the laws are applicable spiritually and have something to teach us about living a life worthy of the calling of God.
Let’s put aside the facts that the Sabbath did not become a Sunday Sabbath until Constantine. The Sabbath sundown Friday until sundown Saturday keeps the 9[SUP]th[/SUP] commandment, thou shall not bear false witness…. G-d created the world in 6 days and on the 7[SUP]th[/SUP] day rest. Now it is between people and G-d.