Church mistake

[Love559]

Okay so I need some opinions here. My mom and dad are pastors. I have a big problem. So there's a girl who helps sing at my church's choir group. I have a problem with her singing because I feel like anyone who has a job/responsibility at my church should be a strong believer and be good role model to others and be good with gods things. But this girl isn't like that. First of all out of church she does bad things. She posts on dirty stuff on social media. She says bad words like crazy. I get more mad just knowing she posts all these kinds of stuff ONLINE. Where anyone can see what she's doing. People are going to say "look at this girl doing this! And she sings at church! " Her own mom complains that she struggles so much with her at home. I don't think she's "fit" enough spiritually to be singing at church. A holy place. Am I being too "religious" or over reacting?

 

[posthuman]

you're probably looking for this verse, without realizing it

Out of the same mouth come praise and cursing.
My brothers and sisters, this should not be.
(James 3:10) ​

 

[posthuman]

have you ever talked to her about this?

that may be the best way to start. ((not saying making this thread is bad)) -- you wouldn't want to be going around behind her back, without approaching her directly.

what you're saying makes sense, but i'm also thinking - no one has their whole lives in order; that's the continual work of the Spirit in us. if we only allowed "perfect people" to minister in any way, there would be no ministry done, because no one is perfect. so would i want to prevent her from serving God if this is her own devotion to Him?

even with that thought in mind, i think someone should point out to her how her life is not matching who she is in Christ.

i gotta go to work now, so i'm leaving you with those thoughts for now -- grace & peace to you!

-post

 

[Love559]

Yes but she's not old enough to take Gods things in a serious way. I'm not asking her to be exactly perfect. But to at least try.

 

[Magenta]

Jesus calls sinners. Is she a sinner? Are you?
You are the one who is saying "look at this girl doing this! And she sings at church!"
Why should she not sing at church? Is she out of tune? Or are you?
If you want your church full of non sinners, it will be empty.
You wouldn't even be allowed in.

 

[Dan58]

Sounds like 'church' is the best place for her . Imagine how bad she might be if she didn't go to church or sing in the choir? Everyone is at different levels (Christian maturity), if we start trying to determine who's qualified or worthy, the church will soon empty out. Remember that Jesus ate with sinners, none of us are good enough.

 

[T_Laurich]

Heres my biggest problwm with church...
I left my church a year ago, NOT A SINGLE PERSON REACHED OUT TO ME!
No one offered to hear why i stopped going, or even made a minute out of their day to contact me...

I am not spiteful over this... And since I have been going back everyone says "glad to see you" and other welcome backs...

Anyways my point is, the church has turned into a holier than thou gossip center....
We all have sin and vices, but the Word says, confront the person in private before going to others... And seek wisdom from elders before going to the church...

I curse like a sailor, and I smoke cigarettes like air, and I make gay jokes and laugh about them with my gay coworker....

But I also spend 3 hours a day driving and talking to God about everything... I come home and think about God, then I go to sleep listening to Sermons about God...

Do I have the world in me??? Of course I do....

Does it need to change??? Of course it does...

And i bet people in my chirch talk behind my back about my life....
But do any of them confront me and have a honest conversation with me?

Not one...
We need to change this about the church... We are all broken and full of the world... So instead of chastising the most worldly so we look better, lets embrace them and lead them to Christ even more!

The problem is not that she sins... Christ has forgiven her...
The problem is we think we are better than Christ and we judge her sins without knowing her heart...

Believe it or not, its very hard to make Christian friends in a lot of areas.... So we are stuck with very worldly friends, and you are who your friends are...

 

[Ugly]

Heres my biggest problwm with church...
I left my church a year ago, NOT A SINGLE PERSON REACHED OUT TO ME!
No one offered to hear why i stopped going, or even made a minute out of their day to contact me...

I am not spiteful over this... And since I have been going back everyone says "glad to see you" and other welcome backs...

Anyways my point is, the church has turned into a holier than thou gossip center....
We all have sin and vices, but the Word says, confront the person in private before going to others... And seek wisdom from elders before going to the church...

I curse like a sailor, and I smoke cigarettes like air, and I make gay jokes and laugh about them with my gay coworker....

But I also spend 3 hours a day driving and talking to God about everything... I come home and think about God, then I go to sleep listening to Sermons about God...

Do I have the world in me??? Of course I do....

Does it need to change??? Of course it does...

And i bet people in my chirch talk behind my back about my life....
But do any of them confront me and have a honest conversation with me?

Not one...
We need to change this about the church... We are all broken and full of the world... So instead of chastising the most worldly so we look better, lets embrace them and lead them to Christ even more!

The problem is not that she sins... Christ has forgiven her...
The problem is we think we are better than Christ and we judge her sins without knowing her heart...

Believe it or not, its very hard to make Christian friends in a lot of areas.... So we are stuck with very worldly friends, and you are who your friends are...

Thought the topic was how this individual should handle this specific problem and not about how all churches are bad.

 

[T_Laurich]

The point of the post was to show the OP that the church is going into a direction that is very self holy, rejecting sinners that make them look bad...

It coincides with the OPs thoughts, so my goal was to show the op my personal experience with the actions they want.

I believe this issue is bigger than just one person thinking x,y,z...
I believe at the core this is a very big church problem.

 

[wwjd_kilden]

Does anybody hear her?
Can anybody see?
Or does anybody even know she's going down today?
Under the shadow of our steeple
With all the lost and lonely people
Searching for the hope that's tucked away in you and me
Does anybody hear her?
Can anybody see?

Read more: Casting Crowns - Does Anybody Hear Her Lyrics | MetroLyrics
​

 

[tourist]

Okay so I need some opinions here. My mom and dad are pastors. I have a big problem. So there's a girl who helps sing at my church's choir group. I have a problem with her singing because I feel like anyone who has a job/responsibility at my church should be a strong believer and be good role model to others and be good with gods things. But this girl isn't like that. First of all out of church she does bad things. She posts on dirty stuff on social media. She says bad words like crazy. I get more mad just knowing she posts all these kinds of stuff ONLINE. Where anyone can see what she's doing. People are going to say "look at this girl doing this! And she sings at church! " Her own mom complains that she struggles so much with her at home. I don't think she's "fit" enough spiritually to be singing at church. A holy place. Am I being too "religious" or over reacting?

Perhaps there isn't anyone truly 'fit' to sing in the choir. I would focus on my own spiritual journey and pray for her as well for God to help her on her own journey in life. Allow yourself to be this girl's role model.

 

[notuptome]

Okay so I need some opinions here. My mom and dad are pastors. I have a big problem. So there's a girl who helps sing at my church's choir group. I have a problem with her singing because I feel like anyone who has a job/responsibility at my church should be a strong believer and be good role model to others and be good with gods things. But this girl isn't like that. First of all out of church she does bad things. She posts on dirty stuff on social media. She says bad words like crazy. I get more mad just knowing she posts all these kinds of stuff ONLINE. Where anyone can see what she's doing. People are going to say "look at this girl doing this! And she sings at church! " Her own mom complains that she struggles so much with her at home. I don't think she's "fit" enough spiritually to be singing at church. A holy place. Am I being too "religious" or over reacting?

Your observation is quite correct but you must consider how you are going to influence her not allow her influence you.

Singing in the choir may be the best way for her to see how to honor God by observing other Christians honoring God.

Pray for her and allow God to minister to her heart.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Willie-T]

Yes but she's not old enough to take Gods things in a serious way. I'm not asking her to be exactly perfect. But to at least try.

Do you think she understands "why" she should want to try?

Now, this is not meant to hurt you, but it IS meant for you to see why it seems you think she should be doing differently. You wrote:

People are going to say "look at this girl doing this! And she sings at church!

I won't lay any judgement on you, but I will ask you to consider what your specific concern in this matter might be..... your desire for her relationship with Christ, or how she makes your parent's ministry look? Not that you shouldn't be concerned for the latter, but which is paramount?

 

[Willie-T]

Heres my biggest problwm with church...
I left my church a year ago, NOT A SINGLE PERSON REACHED OUT TO ME!
No one offered to hear why i stopped going, or even made a minute out of their day to contact me...

I am not spiteful over this... And since I have been going back everyone says "glad to see you" and other welcome backs...

Anyways my point is, the church has turned into a holier than thou gossip center....
We all have sin and vices, but the Word says, confront the person in private before going to others... And seek wisdom from elders before going to the church...

I curse like a sailor, and I smoke cigarettes like air, and I make gay jokes and laugh about them with my gay coworker....

But I also spend 3 hours a day driving and talking to God about everything... I come home and think about God, then I go to sleep listening to Sermons about God...

Do I have the world in me??? Of course I do....

Does it need to change??? Of course it does...

And i bet people in my chirch talk behind my back about my life....
But do any of them confront me and have a honest conversation with me?

Not one...
We need to change this about the church... We are all broken and full of the world... So instead of chastising the most worldly so we look better, lets embrace them and lead them to Christ even more!

The problem is not that she sins... Christ has forgiven her...
The problem is we think we are better than Christ and we judge her sins without knowing her heart...

Believe it or not, its very hard to make Christian friends in a lot of areas.... So we are stuck with very worldly friends, and you are who your friends are...

That's why you come here. We all know people here will beat us all up around the head and shoulders about most anything. Ain't it good to come where you know you will find such focused, concerned love?

 

[Miri]

Yes but she's not old enough to take Gods things in a serious way. I'm not asking her to be exactly perfect. But to at least try.

If she is that young then it's questionable if she should be in the main church choir.

There are some ministries in my church which you cannot be part of unless
you are a church member (and therefore have some accountability to the church).
The adult worship team and choir is included in that (pretty much from 18 upwards).

We do however have a teen/young persons choir and music team. You don't have to
be a church member to be considered for that. It's basically part of the youth work and it's
part of the learning growing finding out about Jesus for the youth.
It's kind of expected that things won't be perfect (it's not perfect anyway even in the adult main teams!).

If sinners are not allowed in the church, where would they go. It sounds as if she has a lot of
growing up to do, it's far better that the church is her role model than anyone else.

Maybe the problem is how the church decides the different level of activities for different
age groups.

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

There was also a sinner as one of the 12 disciples following Jesus.

 

[blue_ladybug]

Personally, I think you're dramatizing this and making much more out of it than there really is. You're the one airing her dirty laundry on here for us to read, so that just makes you as bad as you think she is. You sound more embarassed at her behavior than anyone else in your church does. Like Magenta said, if your church was full of non-sinners, it would be empty. YOU are a sinner and so is she, and so is everyone else in your church. So stop looking down your nose at her and acting all offended, like she's not good enough to attend your church.

Thankfully, GOD thinks she is "fit enough spiritually" to be in his church. YOUR opinion on it doesn't matter. As for her not being "old enough to take God's things seriously", well who are YOU to determine that? She goes to church, she sings in the choir, so obviously she takes that seriously. In fact, those are two of the most important things about going to church. To learn about God and to sing his praises. Stop acting like she's not good enough by YOUR standards, to be in your church. It's NOT YOUR church, it is GOD'S church, so let HIM be the judge of who should be in HIS church.

 

[blue_ladybug]

Yes but she's not old enough to take Gods things in a serious way. I'm not asking her to be exactly perfect. But to at least try.

NOBODY is perfect, so you're asking the impossible of her. Who are you to say whether she takes the things of God seriously or not? As for her bad behavior online and at home, that's none of YOUR concern. That's up to her parents to take care of. And you don't know what hardship she might be going through, so stop judging her by your standards of how you think she should conduct herself. Worry about your own behavior, not hers.

As to whether she's a good role model or not, well, people may look at her young age and bravery to sing in a choir with adults and be like "wow, if she has courage enough to do it, maybe I can join the choir too." And those who see her bad behavior will be like "whew, I don't want to be like her with THAT bad behavior, so I'll work on bettering my own behavior." And as a matter of fact, YOU could learn a lesson from that 2nd example.

 

[jsr1221]

Yes but she's not old enough to take Gods things in a serious way. I'm not asking her to be exactly perfect. But to at least try.

How is one "fit" enough spiritually? Is it being able to memorize the Bible front and back? Having a degree in ministry? Going the rest of life without sinning? Would like some clarification by you, there. I guess I must have misunderstood Jesus when He says come as you are. Since it is impossible for us to be perfect, why try for something that can never happen?

 

[NewWine]

You can't change her, only God can. You can't choose who should or shouldn't be singing in the choir. That should be open to all regular members who want to glorify God with their voices, or left up to the choir panel/director.

What you can do is: Make friends with her, and be an example to her of Christ working in your life, by showing her the characteristics of Love found in 2Corinthians 13. Make friends with her and show her that the people within her "safe place" or her church do like her and want her to remain a part of the family. Make friends with her and let her see that your ways aren't her ways, hopefully making her come to you with questions you can answer for her journey.

You can't change this situation, but you can change your way of thinking, and open yourself to allow God to use you to change things in His time and in His way.
Peace!!