pauls design in truth

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

followjesus

Banned
Jun 1, 2016
5,032
121
0
acts 20 : 20-24 "You know that I have not hesitated to preach anything that would be helpful to you but have taught you publicly and from house to house. I have declared to BOTH JEWS AND GREEKS that they MUST TURN TO GOD IN REPENTANCE and HAVE FAITH IN OUR LORD JESUS. “And now, compelled by the Spirit, I am going to Jerusalem, not knowing what will happen to me there. I only know that in every city the Holy Spirit warns me that prison and hardships are facing me. However, I consider my life worth nothing to me; my only aim is to finish the race and complete the task the Lord Jesus has given me—the task of testifying to THE GOOD NEWS OF GODS GRACE."




This really is a great summary of pauls teaching, which is a great reflection of Jesus teaching as are all the apostles teaching, being based on the great commision " to go into all nations and teach them to obey everythoing Jesus taught"( matt. 28: 18-20) the believing church has to get away from the idea that Grace, and repentance and obedience to Jesus are not one thing, that grace is "jesus obeyed so i dont need to" that is false, rather it is " Jesus obeyed God , died for my transgressions of Gods law, gave me his spirit through His word, therefore I am called to the obedience of his gospel which is able to change my hearts and make me new." Not meaning now were free to go on in our own way and be forgiven, but because were forgiven of the sinful lives we once lived, Now we are granted the opportunity and strength to repent of sin, and learn to live upright lives free from sins grasp.




ephesians 2 :1-10 "As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our flesh and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature deserving of wrath. But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved. And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do."


he shows Gods Grace, forgiving the life we lived USED TO LIVE in sin, following the spirit of the enemy who works in those who live sinfully. he says by that nature that we USED TO follow, we deserved wrath, because we used to live sinful lives and because God Loves us, he gave us new life in Christ despite the fact that we deserved wrath living sinful lives beforehand. this is what makes it all by grace and not works. the fact that all of us once were sinners, and no one could deserve what God has done for us in Christ, forgiving that, and offering the new forgiven man who now doesnt live the sinful life deserving wrath, new Life because of our faith in Jesus, true faith that is expressed through repentance and right living.


ephesians 5:1-7 "FOLLOW God’s example, therefore, as dearly loved children and WALK in the way of love, JUST AS CHRIST loved us and gave himself up for us as a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God. But among you there MUST NOT BE even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God’s holy people. Nor should there be obscenity, foolish talk or coarse joking, which are out of place, but rather thanksgiving. FOR THIS YOU CAN BE SURE: No immoral, impure or greedy person—such a person is an idolater—has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God’s wrath comes on those who are disobedient. Therefore do not be partners with them."


if you study paul without pre judging his doctrine, you'll find His doctrine has the same design in His epistles, he tells of Gods grace that forgives us through Christs atonement for how we lived before we came to Jesus, and then He tells us that now ,we must repent of our sins, and Live to please God by expressing Faith in Jesus Christ. this is how paul taught, he never taught a grace that is apart from repentance and obedience. you cant take what he says at the beginning of his letters about God forgiving our sinful lives prior, and then reject the latter parts of His letters that require repentance and obedience to Jesus Christ. scripture doesnt omit itself, it reconciles.


to understand true Grace we have to accept that Gods will is for man to Love Him in return for His Love expressed through Jesus. and not words, but expressing love through repenting of our sin which placed Him on the cross and learning His ways and living them.


all glory, honor, praise, power and majesty belong to God and to His Son Jesus , who is the Christ.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Silverwings
"jesus obeyed so i dont need to"

I see you have run into the Joseph Prince and the "Hyper grace" cult following who pervert the true gospel of grace in Jesus Christ. If you preach against sin and for an obedient walk of faith empowered by God's grace they will label you a "legalist" or "works salvationist" or "D.I.Y self righteousness".

But I'm sure you have already experienced this as well. :)
 
Whenever our assurance of salvation rests upon our "performance" rather then upon the "promises" of God that are Yes and Amen in Christ - we are in big trouble - we have fallen from grace to rely on our own self-effort so grace does not flow to us.

Obedience in the New Covenant:

In loving God and others as Jesus says is the greatest commandment in the law in relation to obedience.

Obedience to me is a fruit of the life of Christ in our inner man. It is not the root. It's the love of God and the life of Christ manifesting Himself in and through us to a hurt and dying world and to our fellow brethren.

It is not necessarily something "we do to be" but stems from something we "already are now" in Him and so we "do love" as we grow in our awareness of His love for us.

We obey our Lord and Father because we know Him and trust in His character and obedience is not a set of rules that we follow, but a natural flow of the life of God in us built on a love-trust relationship. When you know the love of God for us we will obey Him naturally and effortlessly.

When our minds are renewed to the truth that is in Christ - we obey from our hearts effortlessly. It's a fruit of being in Christ.

I maintain that obedience is a fruit of the life of Christ in our inner man that is created in Christ. When we teach the grace of God this enables us to bear His fruit in and through us to reflect the true kingdom of the love and grace of God to a hurt and dying world.

Teach and preach who believers are in Christ because we are in union in one spirit with the Lord Jesus and they will "awake to righteousness" that is in them because they are a new creation in Him and sin not and walk in the good works that God has prepared for them.
 
This is Paul's design for truth which manifests in obedience to obey the gospel of the grace of Christ.

We are definitely to be obedient to the faith ( also called obeying the gospel )
- which is belief in the finished work of Christ and all that He did at the cross and resurrection and ascension to the right hand of the Father and that we are in Christ.

That is New Covenant obedience.

Romans 1:5 (KJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP]
By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:

Romans 16:26 (KJV)
[SUP]26 [/SUP]
But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

This next scripture is especially interesting. I see that the priests who "followed the whole law" still needed to be obedient to the faith which is belief in Christ's work alone for righteousness and salvation.

The priest were good living-law-following people before they became Christians and yet they were not obedient to the faith until they believed in Christ. This shows that the keeping of the law and being obedient to the faith are 2 completely different things.

Acts 6:7 (NASB)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] The word of God kept on spreading; and the number of the disciples continued to increase greatly in Jerusalem, and a great many of the priests were becoming obedient to the faith.
 
Romans 5:19

"For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of One shall many be made righteous."
 
Romans 5:19

"For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of One shall many be made righteous."


Amen...just like Jesus said - it's time to "repent" ( change the mind ) and believe the gospel.

Stop your old way of thinking to believe in all that Christ has done for us and yes this means everything including what is sin - like unbelief and trying to create and maintain our own righteousness.

Mark 1:14-15 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] Now after John had been taken into custody, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of God,

[SUP]15 [/SUP] and saying, "The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel."

 
Romans 5:19

"For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of One shall many be made righteous."

Here is what being made righteous looks like through the distorted "lens" of Joseph Prince and the "Hyper grace" followers....

8-The gift of righteousness means we are righteous even if we are not

And here....
We never truly stop sinning but God’s okay with that
source.....Joseph Prince exposed, false teachings of Joseph Prince

So you can see in the above examples of Joseph Princes false teachings the errors in doctrine that tries to suggest, that even though they say they are supposedly made righteous by God in Christ, it does not mean that the righteousness of God will actually manifest itself in righteous doing, or good works being performed by them, which is false. This false teaching even suggests that after being made righteous in Christ you will keep on sinning. But the gospel of Jesus Christ says when you are truly under grace sin shall not have dominion over you any longer.

Beware of false teachers and those who follow them and spread their lies and false doctrine.
 
Here is what being made righteous looks like through the distorted "lens" of Joseph Prince and the "Hyper grace" followers....



And here.... source.....Joseph Prince exposed, false teachings of Joseph Prince

So you can see in the above examples of Joseph Princes false teachings the errors in doctrine that tries to suggest, that even though they say they are supposedly made righteous by God in Christ, it does not mean that the righteousness of God will actually manifest itself in righteous doing, or good works being performed by them, which is false. This false teaching even suggests that after being made righteous in Christ you will keep on sinning. But the gospel of Jesus Christ says when you are truly under grace sin shall not have dominion over you any longer.

Beware of false teachers and those who follow them and spread their lies and false doctrine.

Well, Christ makes those who are unrighteous, righteous, doesn't He?

Has Christ made you righteous? Do you still sin?
 
Who do we listen to?

Joseph prince?

ISIT?

How about we listen to God..


What does God say?

He who believes is not condemned, He who does not believe is condemned already (in a state of condemnation) because he has not yet believed.


He who believes has eternal life

He who has faith will never die, live forever, be raised on the last day.


it does not matter what JP says, What God says is true.

please. Run fro the legalism of what ISIT teaches. for it will lead you to hell.
 
Amen...just like Jesus said - it's time to "repent" ( change the mind ) and believe the gospel.

Stop your old way of thinking to believe in all that Christ has done for us and yes this means everything including what is sin - like unbelief and trying to create and maintain our own righteousness.

Right out of JP's playbook.....
42-Repentance doesn’t involve mourning or sorrow (or confession) for sin, it just means you changed your mind about something

43-The doctrine of repentance from sin is not for believers
 
quote_icon.png
Originally Posted by Grace777x70 Amen...just like Jesus said - it's time to "repent" ( change the mind ) and believe the gospel.

Stop your old way of thinking to believe in all that Christ has done for us and yes this means everything including what is sin - like unbelief and trying to create and maintain our own righteousness.


Right out of JP's playbook.....

The word definition for repentance is right from the Greek word which I know violates your religion but so be it.

[FONT="Galatia Sil" !important]μετανοέω[/FONT] [FONT="Gentium" !important]metanoeō[/FONT] verb

To repent, change one’s mind

Complete Biblical Library Greek-English Dictionary, The - The Complete Biblical Library Greek-English Dictionary – Lambda-Omicron.

This is a great video that shows how the Greek word meaning for repentance was changed by the Catholic Church and passed on to us in modern times. They translated it from the Latin word for penance which is not close to the Greek meaning of the word.

[video=vimeo;112172173]https://vimeo.com/112172173[/video]
 
Last edited:
If you preach against sin and for an obedient walk of faith empowered by God's grace they will label you a "legalist" or "works salvationist" or "D.I.Y self righteousness".

And how long did it take....

Run fro the legalism of what ISIT teaches.

It's like a Pavlovian response, just mention obedience and the dogs begin to foam at the mouth. LOL :)
 
It's like a Pavlovian response, just mention obedience and the dogs begin to foam at the mouth. LOL :)

Who let the dogs out! :)

Isaiah 56:9-12

[SUP]9 [/SUP]All ye beasts of the field, come to devour, yea, all ye beasts in the forest.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]His watchmen are blind: they are all ignorant, they are all dumb dogs, they cannot bark; sleeping, lying down, loving to slumber.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Yea, they are greedy dogs which can never have enough, and they are shepherds that cannot understand: they all look to their own way, every one for his gain, from his quarter.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Come ye, say they, I will fetch wine, and we will fill ourselves with strong drink; and to morrow shall be as this day, and much more abundant.
 
Whenever our assurance of salvation rests upon our "performance" rather then upon the "promises" of God that are Yes and Amen in Christ - we are in big trouble - we have fallen from grace to rely on our own self-effort so grace does not flow to us.
WhAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT?!?!? DID YOU JUST SAY "FALLEN FROM GRACE"?!?

According to Hypergrace theology, THAT CAN'T HAPPEN!!

Are you saying those that those that don't believe in Hypergrace can fall from grace while teaching it's impossible for HG'ers to do the same thing?

That's rather double-minded, isn't it?