pauls design in truth

[followjesus]

That's right, according to their "prince" and his playbook you cannot lose salvation....



But the double talk is exposed here.....




And notice, according to their "prince" you cannot fall from grace by sinning. So the "rebellious sinners" seem to have a made themselves a special loophole.

sadly this doctrine that jp takes credit for has been around a long time. when some people see money being made from a false doctrine, and the popularity among the world it brings..they begin to search the scriptures for things to twist and get in on the "glory" and approval of men. awhile back i remember people started saying that " we need to make Jesus attractive to people, we shouldnt say repent of sin, but we should magnify that he loves us so much that we could never do wrong in his eyes...and that would then bring people to God"

im thinking, we need to present Jesus according to the way God presented Him to the world, otherwise were thinking we have a better idea than the only one that saves anyone. when a person accepts a lie and puts faith in that, it becomes a wall hopefully at some point, God will break through the false doctrines and bring hearts low before Him so people understand Jesus needs no adjustments, His design is perfect as is

 

[followjesus]

How many times will mine accusers ask me this? No matter which way I answer, I will still be accused by those who hate me. And like I have stated several times before, no matter what I am, or no matter what you are, it does not make the words of God any less true. So start believing what God said is true in His Word.

2 corinthians 5:10 "For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad."

romans 14:12 "So then, each of us will give an account of ourselves to God."

its no ones place to demand an accounting from you bro, they look for any way to discredit the truth because ot destroys false doctrine. if you say No, then you are "self righteous" if you say yes " then you are preaching what you dont practice"

which you already know according to your comment. remember this

2 timothy 3:1-7 "But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. 2People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, 4treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God— 5having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with such people.6They are the kind who worm their way into homes and gain control over gullible women, who are loaded down with sins and are swayed by all kinds of evil desires, 7always learning but never able to come to a knowledge of the truth. "

and this

2 timothy 4 :3-4 "For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.4They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths."

1 tmothy 6:3 -5 "If anyone teaches otherwise and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching, 4they are conceited and understand nothing. They have an unhealthy interest in controversies and quarrels about words that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions 5and constant friction between people of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain."

 

[followjesus]

When Moses struck the rock instead of talking to it would you say he fell from grace? I would. It fits the definition perfectly.

He didn't fall from Salvation. He was seen later on the mount of transfiguration with the Lord and Elijah.

Grace is given precisely because of sin. So falling from Grace can't be because of sin. I wouldn't say rebellious sinners understand this, just regular ones.

so you turn to the old covenant to speak of the new? while claiming the old is gone? and God has changed? why not trust paul whom you all regard so highly

ephesoians 5:5 "For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure, or greedy person (that is, an idolater), has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God."

galatians 5 19-21"The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God."

or galatians 6:7-9 "Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8Whoever sows to please their flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; whoever sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life. 9Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up."

all written to believers. why can we accept the first few chapters of galatians as gospel, but the last few are not for us?

why not trust real Godly grace?

titus 2:11-15 " For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people. 12It teaches us to say “No” to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age, 13while we wait for the blessed hope—the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, 14who gave himself for us to redeem us from all wickedness and to purify for himself a people that are his very own, eager to do what is good."


grace saves us by teaching us to live worthy lives, it doesnt save us to excuse continuing on in sin. those who continue on in sin will be among the resurrection of the wicked. yes, the wicked also will live forever, but in torment all because they chose that above God.

 

[FreeNChrist]

so you turn to the old covenant to speak of the new? while claiming the old is gone? and God has changed? why not trust paul whom you all regard so highly

ephesoians 5:5 "For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure, or greedy person (that is, an idolater), has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God."

galatians 5 19-21"The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God."

or galatians 6:7-9 "Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8Whoever sows to please their flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; whoever sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life. 9Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up."

all written to believers. why can we accept the first few chapters of galatians as gospel, but the last few are not for us?

why not trust real Godly grace?

titus 2:11-15 " For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people. 12It teaches us to say “No” to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age, 13while we wait for the blessed hope—the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, 14who gave himself for us to redeem us from all wickedness and to purify for himself a people that are his very own, eager to do what is good."


grace saves us by teaching us to live worthy lives, it doesnt save us to excuse continuing on in sin. those who continue on in sin will be among the resurrection of the wicked. yes, the wicked also will live forever, but in torment all because they chose that above God.

Do you still sin?

 

[followjesus]

Is it a righteous work to tell people that the Lord Jesus Christ makes the unrighteous righteous?

if the unrighteous are made righteous, when will they take responsability to live righteous? righteous people dont come screaming when someone is saying to follow the commands of Jesus Christ, those who Love him Love His commands and carry them out. his words. pauls words, johns words. Gods word

 

[followjesus]

Do you obey out of obligation and fear, or out of love for what he did for you?

to Love Him is to obey Him

 

[Grace777x70]

if the unrighteous are made righteous, when will they take responsability to live righteous? righteous people dont come screaming when someone is saying to follow the commands of Jesus Christ, those who Love him Love His commands and carry them out. his words. pauls words, johns words. Gods word

And this below is the difference between "works righteousness" and "faith righteousness" for salvation. ( as in going to be with the Lord when we die )

In the Old - you "did in order to get" In the New Covenant " you believe in order to receive" what Christ has already done. It's called the "word of faith" and it's enacted by speaking.

This is where works-based salvationists have a hard time with the gospel of the grace of Christ alone for salvation. They are mixing the covenants up and trying to do things in order to get and maintain salvation.

The pure gospel of the grace of Christ is offensive to this mindset and thus they need to do things in order to establish and maintain their own righteousness for salvation just like it was commanded in the Old Covenant.

In the New Covenant we receive Christ's righteousness because we believe NOT because "we do".


Doing righteous deeds by themselves does not make one righteous. This is having the cart before the horse.

I know there have been "good" people doing "righteous deeds " but they were not belonging to God. Many religions have moral living people in them - all doing "righteous deeds".

Here is how righteousness is manifested to a believer....we need to be righteousness conscious...not sin-conscious...we have a new creation in Christ now!

This "righteousness " that we already have now in our new creation ( the inner man ) is because we are in Christ - will manifest outwardly in doing righteous deeds - but we need the "horse" in front first.

The "horse" being Christ's righteousness in us because of our being in Christ in our inner man..our new creation in Christ.

Awake to who you are in Christ!..Awake to righteousness and sin not..when you see who you are in Him in your new man..you become like Him outwardly.

2 Corinthians 3:17-18 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

[SUP]18 [/SUP] But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as from the Lord, the Spirit.


Hebrews 5:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] For everyone who partakes only of milk is not accustomed to the word of righteousness, for he is an infant.

Romans 5:17 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] For if by the transgression of the one, death reigned through the one, much more those who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.

Isaiah 54:14 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] "In righteousness you will be established; You will be far from oppression, for you will not fear; And from terror, for it will not come near you.

2 Corinthians 5:21 (NASB)
[SUP]21[/SUP] He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

When you see who you are in Christ because of His finished work...you become outwardly in behavior what you are truly like in your new inner man where Christ dwells.

 

[Grace777x70]

to Love Him is to obey Him[

/QUOTE]

A very big factor in looking at scripture is the "lens" you use to view the scripture.

In the Old Covenant " you had to do or else"..If you do this..then I God will do that.." = conditional on the person performing

New Covenant = Jesus has done it for you which empowers you to "do"

Let's take a look at a common scripture with these 2 mindsets.

Jesus said.." If you love Me, you will keep My commandments"

Old Covenant mindset = conditional on the person "doing"..

So they would read it this way.."IF you love Me you will keep My commandments"..in their mind it's saying.."Keep My commandment and you will prove you love Me."

New Covenant mindset = it's a description of who you are in Christ.

They would see this "Jesus' love is in me so I keep His commandments"..it stems out of relationship and it is not conditional but descriptive of the believer.

1 John 4:18-19 (NASB)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves punishment, and the one who fears is not perfected in love.

[SUP]19 [/SUP] We love, because He first loved us.

Then there is more..lol..there seems to be more sometimes eh?..just what are His commandments anyway?..Be perfect as My Father in heaven is perfect?...can we possibly do that?..of course not..that is Moses 2.0

Ahhh..found His commandments in 1 John 3.

1 John 3:23 (NASB)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us.


...the "lens" that we view scriptures greatly affects us. We try to mix the Old Covenant ( before the cross and resurrection ) with the New Covenant and we get a religious mess.

Religious traditions of men, philosophies of men, ..what we were told all our lives in church or in the world etc. ..all influence how we view scripture. Sometimes some of our "sacred cows" can get sacrificed and it's painful.

Colossians 2:8 (NASB)
[SUP]8[/SUP] See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

And how long did it take....



It's like a Pavlovian response, just mention obedience and the dogs begin to foam at the mouth. LOL

Nah, It is not because you mention obedience, Everyone here is talking about being obedient.

It is about you thinking you can EARN Gods grace..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

A faith that works by Love...
Galatians 5:6

For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

Ah the old roman catholic excuse.. Faith works in love, meaning we must work to earn salvation. But it is just a technicality, we are still saved by grace..

smh

How many of their sacraments do you follow?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

WhAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT?!?!? DID YOU JUST SAY "FALLEN FROM GRACE"?!?

According to Hypergrace theology, THAT CAN'T HAPPEN!!

Are you saying those that those that don't believe in Hypergrace can fall from grace while teaching it's impossible for HG'ers to do the same thing?

That's rather double-minded, isn't it?

Can you read at all. Just asking, because what you just said makes no sense.


He said when "WE"

Which means he included himself

Some people are so insistent on slamming other people and trying to prove them wrong they make themselves look bad doing it.

You are guilty of doing that very thing.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

That's right, according to their "prince" and his playbook you cannot lose salvation....



But the double talk is exposed here.....




And notice, according to their "prince" you cannot fall from grace by sinning. So the "rebellious sinners" seem to have a made themselves a special loophole.

lol.. And you just proved you preach a performance based Gospel of works. By saying Prince is wrong bu saying sin can not cause us to lose salvation.

So sin is an issue in salvation. You better meet gods demand, Or your in big trouble my friend.

And please. No watering down Gods law like you all like to do. Gods standard is perfection.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

How many times will mine accusers ask me this? No matter which way I answer, I will still be accused by those who hate me. And like I have stated several times before, no matter what I am, or no matter what you are, it does not make the words of God any less true. So start believing what God said is true in His Word.

Until you STOP saying that God makes you sinless, and sin can cause you to lose salvation

 

[eternally-gratefull]

to Love Him is to obey Him

We love because he loved first.

He does not ask for obedience first, He saves us first. Otherwise we have no capacity to love, him or anyone else. He set the bar the bar was the cross..

 

[Talishi]

Until you STOP saying that God makes you sinless, and sin can cause you to lose salvation

1 John 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

 

[Grandpa]

so you turn to the old covenant to speak of the new? while claiming the old is gone? and God has changed? why not trust paul whom you all regard so highly

ephesoians 5:5 "For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure, or greedy person (that is, an idolater), has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God."

galatians 5 19-21"The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God."

or galatians 6:7-9 "Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8Whoever sows to please their flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; whoever sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life. 9Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up."

all written to believers. why can we accept the first few chapters of galatians as gospel, but the last few are not for us?

why not trust real Godly grace?

titus 2:11-15 " For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people. 12It teaches us to say “No” to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age, 13while we wait for the blessed hope—the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, 14who gave himself for us to redeem us from all wickedness and to purify for himself a people that are his very own, eager to do what is good."


grace saves us by teaching us to live worthy lives, it doesnt save us to excuse continuing on in sin. those who continue on in sin will be among the resurrection of the wicked. yes, the wicked also will live forever, but in torment all because they chose that above God.

Kind of weird that you take exception with the Old Testament and then turn to your own strength and will for righteousness.

The wicked will live in torment because they didn't have faith that God would work in them to perfect them. The wicked are working at perfecting themselves. The wicked look down on all others who are not working at being as righteous as they are.

Galatians 3:3 [FONT=&quot]Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

[/FONT]Different tactic, same mo

 

[Grace777x70]

1 John 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

1 John 5:18 (NASB)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] We know that no one who is born of God sins; but He who was born of God keeps him, and the evil one does not touch him.

This scripture is beautiful as it shows that the new creation in Christ created in righteousness and holiness cannot sin - why? because Jesus who was born of God keeps us by His righteousness - not our own.

Here is a companion scripture that goes with what John said.

1 John 3:9 (KJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Notice John says that the one born of God "cannot sin" - why?...because he is born of God. Sin does not affect the new creation in Christ but it does affect our life here on this earth.

This is why Paul says to walk by the Spirit and we will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh to do "it's" desires and to put to death the deeds of the body by the spirit within us so that we will experience the life of Christ in us while we are in this earth suit on this earth.

The Holy Spirit has sealed us by separating the inner man in Christ from the flesh.( called the circumcision of Christ and of the heart ) Col 2:11

We have a problem - we know that everyone sins in some form or other. Unbelief is the greatest sin and we all have that in our minds when we don't believe all the word of God to us.

Some translators have tried to water this down by saying "does not habitually sin" but the reality is that it is in the present tense and the present is always present. When someone sins in any capacity - it is always in the present tense.

Here is another scripture that talks about being born of incorruptible seed which lives and abides forever.

1 Peter 1:23 (KJV)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

The understanding of the new creation in Christ created in righteousness and holiness is paramount in walking out the true Christian life while we are in this earth and in the flesh.

 

[Grandpa]

Originally Posted by Grandpa
Is it a righteous work to tell people that the Lord Jesus Christ makes the unrighteous righteous?

if the unrighteous are made righteous, when will they take responsability to live righteous? righteous people dont come screaming when someone is saying to follow the commands of Jesus Christ, those who Love him Love His commands and carry them out. his words. pauls words, johns words. Gods word

You kind of have a disconnect going here. I wonder if you realize what you have said.

If the unrighteous are MADE righteous how are they going to take responsibility for something that they didn't do themselves? Start preaching to everyone to do righteous works that even they themselves aren't capable of? That's how hypocrites and pharisees are made.

It's crazy how many people come on here and think they know righteousness and then preach works. And then get super upset when someone who knows what Christianity actually is points it out.

Come to me and I will give you rest. That's a command, right??? Have you done it???

What is this rest??? How is it accomplished???

Does it upset the legalists and workers that we are made Righteous and its not something we accomplish ourselves? I don't know why. Doesn't it sound like good news that your work isn't what makes you Righteous? It's good news to me...

 

[Talishi]

Does it upset the legalists and workers that we are made Righteous and its not something we accomplish ourselves?

They are made subjectively righteous under reformation soteriology, not objectively righteous. Like a big pile of doo doo, spray-painted white.

 

[Grandpa]

They are made subjectively righteous under reformation soteriology, not objectively righteous. Like a big pile of doo doo, spray-painted white.

Oh really?

The Lord will probably be disappointed that you said that.